It's been about twelve years or so since I've last played a tabletop game. I think it's time I fix that.
I gathered a bunch of friends, all without any RPG experience, and we'll be playing weekly/biweekly sessions.
I've asked around, and none of them have any preferred (or disliked) genre or setting.
Originally, I thought I'd start with D&D 4e, since the very video-gamey rules will probably be easy for new players to get into.
I've since abandoned that idea. Mostly because I felt the amount of research and balance work I'd have to do to come up original material would be stupidly high, having not played D&D since 2e.
I've looked around, and Fate looks like a very straightforward system that can fit whatever setting I want it to. It's also ridiculously easy to tinker with, in case I feel like something isn't working quite how I want it to.
Since I'm no longer bound to D&D, I've also changed the setting from a purely Fantasy one to a crazy amalgamation of all my favorite genres and tropes. I'm thinking of a mostly Steampunk world, with elements thrown in from from fantasy, cyberpunk, Firefly, Gaiman, Pratchett, GotG, and some Dishonored (whale oil woo). The players will likely be muscles for hire, or some C-list superhero types.
Some significant elements within the game world include a Worm-based underground transport system, sky pirates, a street-sized mechanical computer, dirigibles and balloons, mad science (and possibly alchemy), etc.
This is obviously all still very much in its Infancy. I don't have a ton written down yet, and nothing is set in stone. Still, I'd love to hear some input re: Fate or the concept. I'm especially interested in hearing from people who've had experience running Fate games.
Since nobody else offered...there are a ton of FATE resources floating around out there. The G+ Community in general is full of a wealth of information and will patiently answer your questions. Sometimes repeatedly. There're a few self-promoters lurking, but you'll identify them and be able to ignore them pretty quickly if you're not interested in buying what they're selling.
I think everything you described has already made its way into FATE in some way (as insane as that sounds, FATE made its bona fides in the *punk settings). More than a few in the materials released as a result of the Kickstarter.
It's probably pretty important to note that a lot of the FATE materials are available as "Pay what you want," which includes $0. This is because there's a Patreon supporting the development of a lot of the new settings (which aren't settings in the D&D sense, but more a few ideas tied together to generate a strong starting point and some interesting, unique mechanics).
If you have specific questions (other than the "compels are confusing" one, which is best answered with "practice makes perfect-ish") fire away.
As for actually running FATE? It's probably the lightest prep you'll ever do. Characters (which can be anything, including a chair the group adopts) can easily be written on the fly. It's versatile and you're going to have a hard time throwing your group in over their heads challenge-wise, if you don't give into the D&D urges of "throw a monster four levels higher than them at them because that's how challenges are made!"
I posted here a week ago asking for very general advice about running nWoD (and the responses were helpful; thanks!). I came up with notes for a scenario meant to be the characters' first brush with the supernatural, and I'd like opinions on it, if you guys don't mind. One weakness is that it's kinda short, even for a PbP game (running in person is scary, maaan, plus one of my players isn't local).
I've never run WoD, and only played two or three sessions of it, so I'm excited/terrified and not really sure what to expect!
(I don't think anybody who knows me IRL hangs out here; but if you do, you know who you are. Don't read this.)
Spoilered for length:
The PCs start as friends. It’s late summer/early autumn. They’ve been at a music festival all day (think Oktoberfest or Irishfest; lots of bands, food, alcohol) and are walking back to their DD’s car when it starts to get foggy. The fog quickly thickens until they can’t see more than a few feet in any direction. They can see the glow of streetlights, and their immediate surroundings are as expected (building walls, concrete, asphalt, grass, whatever), but at the same time nothing is familiar - they might as well be lost in a strange city. At the same time, the cool, crisp air becomes uncomfortably warm and muggy. There are weird rustlings around and overhead, but it’s hard to tell where sounds are coming from because the fog distorts things.
After a few minutes of this, they start hearing growls that sound like they come from a large predator*. The growls are close by, but it's hard to tell what direction they're coming from. They are clearly getting closer, however. As the PCs act (panic, run, try calmly to find the car, whatever), the fog gets darker - they are getting farther away from the streetlights. When it’s sufficiently dark, the unseen predator seems to growl directly behind them - and soon after this, one of them is attacked by an unseen force that knocks them to the ground at the least.
Once they do something sufficiently clever, the predator is driven off, the air cools and the fog dissipates, and they find that they are only a few yards from their car - and the chase that just took place doesn't make sense given the immediate geography. The PC who was attacked probably has bits of fur and/or bite or claw marks on their clothing; the others might have other souvenirs, depending on how the attack went down.
Several days after this, one of the PCs (probably the one who attacked the beast, if any) hears their garbage cans being knocked over in the night - and finds an impossibly large footprint in the morning. They are still being hunted.
*The creature is a big cat of some sort, or at least based on one. It's not canine, and it's *definitely* not a werewolf, just because I'm sick of cliched werewolves and vampires. The idea is that they never actually see it, only its effects.
If this gets off the ground, I'm thinking of incorporating (heavily butchered) Aztec mythology into the game, because of how awesome and scary it is. (Check out Itzpapalotl's Wikipedia entry and tell me that isn't terrifying and badass.) Along those lines, the predator could be some kind of jaguar spirit, maybe.
Sounds cool, you could even have a zoo in town to serve up some tasty red herrings, nervous employees and a closed exhibit to make them think their troubles might be an escaped animal for a while.
Supernatural happenings that just might have a normal explanation if you squint your eyes and try really hard to ignore half the stuff you saw are fun!
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AkimboEGMr. FancypantsWears very fine pants indeedRegistered Userregular
Since nobody else offered...there are a ton of FATE resources floating around out there. The G+ Community in general is full of a wealth of information and will patiently answer your questions. Sometimes repeatedly. There're a few self-promoters lurking, but you'll identify them and be able to ignore them pretty quickly if you're not interested in buying what they're selling.
I think everything you described has already made its way into FATE in some way (as insane as that sounds, FATE made its bona fides in the *punk settings). More than a few in the materials released as a result of the Kickstarter.
It's probably pretty important to note that a lot of the FATE materials are available as "Pay what you want," which includes $0. This is because there's a Patreon supporting the development of a lot of the new settings (which aren't settings in the D&D sense, but more a few ideas tied together to generate a strong starting point and some interesting, unique mechanics).
If you have specific questions (other than the "compels are confusing" one, which is best answered with "practice makes perfect-ish") fire away.
As for actually running FATE? It's probably the lightest prep you'll ever do. Characters (which can be anything, including a chair the group adopts) can easily be written on the fly. It's versatile and you're going to have a hard time throwing your group in over their heads challenge-wise, if you don't give into the D&D urges of "throw a monster four levels higher than them at them because that's how challenges are made!"
We'll be playing Fate Core. I imagine I'll have to find/create some Extras once I nail down the final details of the setting.
I agree about the G+ community. I've read a few things and found a few useful links there that had some great info. One of those links very clearly explained the Fate Fractal, which really clarifies how the whole system works.
AkimboEG on
Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
It's been about twelve years or so since I've last played a tabletop game. I think it's time I fix that.
I gathered a bunch of friends, all without any RPG experience, and we'll be playing weekly/biweekly sessions.
I've asked around, and none of them have any preferred (or disliked) genre or setting.
Originally, I thought I'd start with D&D 4e, since the very video-gamey rules will probably be easy for new players to get into.
I've since abandoned that idea. Mostly because I felt the amount of research and balance work I'd have to do to come up original material would be stupidly high, having not played D&D since 2e.
I've looked around, and Fate looks like a very straightforward system that can fit whatever setting I want it to. It's also ridiculously easy to tinker with, in case I feel like something isn't working quite how I want it to.
Since I'm no longer bound to D&D, I've also changed the setting from a purely Fantasy one to a crazy amalgamation of all my favorite genres and tropes. I'm thinking of a mostly Steampunk world, with elements thrown in from from fantasy, cyberpunk, Firefly, Gaiman, Pratchett, GotG, and some Dishonored (whale oil woo). The players will likely be muscles for hire, or some C-list superhero types.
Some significant elements within the game world include a Worm-based underground transport system, sky pirates, a street-sized mechanical computer, dirigibles and balloons, mad science (and possibly alchemy), etc.
This is obviously all still very much in its Infancy. I don't have a ton written down yet, and nothing is set in stone. Still, I'd love to hear some input re: Fate or the concept. I'm especially interested in hearing from people who've had experience running Fate games.
I hope this doesn't sound like BUY ALL THE FATES but you might want to pick up:
- The Fate Toolkit (also part of the SRD) for some approaches you might want to take with the "magic system"
- Fate Worlds: Worlds on Fire for Wild Blue, a game about C-list superheroes in the Wild West
- Atomic Robo: The Roleplaying Game for a neat and expandable character creation method, an alternative to spending refresh for stunts, and amazing investigation and invention systems
I hope this doesn't sound like BUY ALL THE FATES but you might want to pick up:
- The Fate Toolkit (also part of the SRD) for some approaches you might want to take with the "magic system"
- Fate Worlds: Worlds on Fire for Wild Blue, a game about C-list superheroes in the Wild West
- Atomic Robo: The Roleplaying Game for a neat and expandable character creation method, an alternative to spending refresh for stunts, and amazing investigation and invention systems
I've taken a look at the Toolkit on the SRD, and I'll probably read it through once I'm done with with the Core book. I've seen Wild Blue in Worlds on Fire, and though it does sounds super interesting, I don't think I'll be spending any money on setting books if I'm making one up myself anyway. There's plenty of inspiration to be found freely and from things I've already read, watched, or heard. I'm interested in the character creation method and stunts alternative you mentioned in Atomic Robo, but I don't think I'll be buying an additional rulebook just for those two things.
It's very possible I'll be bothering you two with questions in the next few days @Ardent@Glazius, so thanks in advance.
Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
I dunno, "BUY ALL THE FATES" sounds like a) something you might reasonably consider and b) a totally awesome in media res start for a campaign if it's said by a crazy-looking homeless man who is then shot by a sniper.
I kind of feel that storygame is a poor moniker because it implies that other games aren't about story, and they are, and also implies that they are not about roleplaying, which of course they also are.
Narrativist games is probably better, meaning games where the mechanics simulate task resolution based on the requirements of plot, rather than simulate a task resolution with no respect to the narrative. So, in one game whether you are victorious in a fight depends entirely on whether it is plot appropriate, in the other, it's entirely based on the combat skills of the combatants, psychological state, envirionment etc. In other words, physical factors which do not include the fact that it is part of a story.
Of course, nigh on every game in existence is actually between the two extremes, but they represent the ends of the scale.
For what it's worth, a lot of the stuff in Wild Blue and AARPG found its way into the Toolkit and the SRD, just in non-specific terms. So as long as you have the Toolkit, you should be set.
Also, FATE is my heart, so if you have any questions, feel free to include me as well.
I kind of feel that storygame is a poor moniker because it implies that other games aren't about story, and they are, and also implies that they are not about roleplaying, which of course they also are.
Yes, that's why I said and continue to say
storytelling
because the games I refer to use most of their rules to discuss the act of storytelling, the procedures for storytelling, how to handle conflicts in storytelling, and if they exist, how the game's props exist to provide prompts for storytelling. Instead of, say, using their rules to discuss the many ways various numbers can bang into each other.
I mean, if you're playing D&D there's nothing stopping you from roleplaying Frankie Fighter and Max Mage sitting down arguing over loot from the dragon's hoard. It's just that in the Fiasco playset Dragon Slayers, you are explicitly set up to do that. (And, contrariwise, if you want some numberbang to that scene, you play Torchbearer and have an argument conflict.)
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I don't feel that storytelling is appropriate because it implies that the game is secondary. I also don't think it's useful to get hung up on implications and connotations. Storygame is a common term used in many RPG communities, and it's useful to be able to talk about it and storygames without tripping over semantics.
I don't feel that storytelling is appropriate because it implies that the game is secondary.
It also creates the confusing situation were it classifies the RPG system that is officially called the "Storytelling System", and has been since 2003, as not being a storytelling system.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited September 2014
Mutant: Year Zero has a long and rich history in the land of meatballs and snowflakes
When I read this line, I thought meatballs and snowflakes referred to grognards and storygamers.
Has anyone played Mutant Future before (one of the older edtions)? Am curious because of the setting.
We had the strangest session in Shadowrun last night in that it didn't end in a complete blood bath. I think the GM eased up at one point just because of the sheer oddness. Neither the Street Sam nor the Machine gun toting Rigger were able to make the session. So the party consisted of rigger/medic, aspect mage/medic, street shaman, and me the face/stealth.
There was a shipment that was going to contain an person, and AI, and a cyberlimb. The person was the man objective but the others would added bonus cash. Through legwork we discovered that the air transport was a huge decoy and the real transport was being done in a convoy of 3 cars. We find the convoy and the Street Shaman manages to cause a traffic accident with the help from a spirit. The majority of the convoy guards get out and start discussing options. My face is parked close to them, comes out of the car and starts with the distraction. She's telling the story of how if she's late to this corporate meeting her boss is going to fire her, and if she loses her job she'll have to move back home, and and and waterworks. 5 successes has the big men all paying attention to the tiny elf crying her eyes out.
Meanwhile the shaman casts invisibilty and sneaks in the 3rd car in the convoy. The person we need to extract is in the back. The rigger hacks into the second car. So the second and the thrid car start backing up and going they way they came. As the guards realize what is going on the aspect mage makes a run and jumps into the first car. There is still someone in the passenger seat. She manages to not get hurt by the pistol shot and fries him with a spell. The group drives off, retrieves all the goods, and dumps the convoy cars.
Lots of spell rolls, lots of decking/rigging rolls, and lots of Con rolls. No firearm usage is a first for our group, it was a great time though.
My old Shadowrun crew used to say "if you're drawing your gun, you've already squandered all of your good options."
Usually followed by "Rocket launchers, electrified katanas and bursts of radioactive hellfire do not count as 'guns'," though.
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
Any tried doing "character archetypes" in FATE using Extras? Archetype might be the wrong word, more of a specialization really. I kicking around having a two dozen or so different "specializations" that are extras my players in my new Roll20 game can take if they want to pay for them. Basically a bunch of different types that provide some character focus and jumping off points for their characters in this space opera setting; it would give them some unique ways to use skills or stunts.
Anyone do something similar? I am trying to avoid "classes" but also provide a little bit of specialization for my guys that want to slightly more "role-y" in their character creation.
My old Shadowrun crew used to say "if you're drawing your gun, you've already squandered all of your good options."
Usually followed by "Rocket launchers, electrified katanas and bursts of radioactive hellfire do not count as 'guns'," though.
My group normally ends up like "spend hours on an elaborate plan. Then once we actually start the run; ignore the plan, kick the door in, and go shoot crazy.".
My old Shadowrun crew used to say "if you're drawing your gun, you've already squandered all of your good options."
Usually followed by "Rocket launchers, electrified katanas and bursts of radioactive hellfire do not count as 'guns'," though.
My group normally ends up like "spend hours on an elaborate plan. Then once we actually start the run; ignore the plan, kick the door in, and go shoot crazy.".
My team of runners tends to say "Lets try to avoid a fight" and by the end of the night, we've kidnapped a city mayor, blown a hotel to kingdom come, left a dozen bodies in a parking garage, and blown up a Knight Errant corporate jet with Knight Errant officially looking the other way.
Any tried doing "character archetypes" in FATE using Extras? Archetype might be the wrong word, more of a specialization really. I kicking around having a two dozen or so different "specializations" that are extras my players in my new Roll20 game can take if they want to pay for them. Basically a bunch of different types that provide some character focus and jumping off points for their characters in this space opera setting; it would give them some unique ways to use skills or stunts.
Anyone do something similar? I am trying to avoid "classes" but also provide a little bit of specialization for my guys that want to slightly more "role-y" in their character creation.
I was doing something somewhat similar for a game once upon a time (it never got off the ground, though, so I don't know if it works). But each archetype was a Stunt, two skill without bonuses attached, and a seed of an Aspect. The idea is when you pick an archetype, you get the stunt, the skill/approach on your list of skills (though you get to decide how important it is to your character), and the Aspect formed the basis of one of yours, shaped to choice.
So for instance:
Elf:
Stunt: Paint With All The Colors of the Wind - You can talk to plants. Use Rapport instead of Lore when creating advantages related to understanding nature.
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcanum
Aspect: Most elves live hidden from view forever. Describe in an Aspect why your character chose to leave the hidden veil.
Damn it guys...I am like fours hours of terrible class away from running my Shadowrun game. Stop making me want to play hooky and go draw up more awesome runs.
Any tried doing "character archetypes" in FATE using Extras? Archetype might be the wrong word, more of a specialization really. I kicking around having a two dozen or so different "specializations" that are extras my players in my new Roll20 game can take if they want to pay for them. Basically a bunch of different types that provide some character focus and jumping off points for their characters in this space opera setting; it would give them some unique ways to use skills or stunts.
Anyone do something similar? I am trying to avoid "classes" but also provide a little bit of specialization for my guys that want to slightly more "role-y" in their character creation.
I was doing something somewhat similar for a game once upon a time (it never got off the ground, though, so I don't know if it works). But each archetype was a Stunt, two skill without bonuses attached, and a seed of an Aspect. The idea is when you pick an archetype, you get the stunt, the skill/approach on your list of skills (though you get to decide how important it is to your character), and the Aspect formed the basis of one of yours, shaped to choice.
So for instance:
Elf:
Stunt: Paint With All The Colors of the Wind - You can talk to plants. Use Rapport instead of Lore when creating advantages related to understanding nature.
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcanum
Aspect: Most elves live hidden from view forever. Describe in an Aspect why your character chose to leave the hidden veil.
Currently my players choose a heritage and racial package. It's a space operate based around the idea of D&D advanced into the future, so Terran races are elves, dwarves, human, minotaur etc plus all the aliens. Races and human heritage all have two aspects; a "negative" and a "positive". The idea of the archetype is further diversification and creation of a role within a party. Examples are like a Thane (someone who uses powered armor and light mechs), a Sprawlrake (someone who is adept at urban megacities and sneaking/thieving), a Cybermancer (someone with illegal and highly sophisticated wetware implants and nanonics hidden undetectable in their body), a Wirehawk (a guy who uses small fleets of Drones and UAVs, adept at building widgets and gizmos and taking over robots via neural interface) or a Nanojack (an advanced hacker, netrunner), etc.
My current idea is for each "type" to give someone a unique ability on a skill and possibly an aspect. It would "cost" them by having to form a character concept relating to that type, taking certain skills and having an aspect that somehow ties into the character (Like for a Sprawlrake, Grew Up in the Worst Megablock or something else related to that theme).
Not sure if that's the best way to approach it however. Still getting a feel for the impact it would have on mechanics.
Sounds like a simple enough thing to write up as an Extra for each Archetype. In fact, that seems to be pretty close to the base Extra defined in the rulebook (with a "permission" Aspect, some "cost" in terms of skill points, and a "reward" in the form of a new way of using those skills", which means you've pretty much nailed it.
You could, if you wanted to push it a little further, add in a Stunt or two at a cost of a Refresh (maybe even making that an optional call, so people could have varying shades of Archetype), but as is, that sounds like it should work perfectly.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
For sure! The OP is still very much a work in progress. I imagine I'll finish it just as the thread hits 100 pages again.
Any tried doing "character archetypes" in FATE using Extras? Archetype might be the wrong word, more of a specialization really. I kicking around having a two dozen or so different "specializations" that are extras my players in my new Roll20 game can take if they want to pay for them. Basically a bunch of different types that provide some character focus and jumping off points for their characters in this space opera setting; it would give them some unique ways to use skills or stunts.
Anyone do something similar? I am trying to avoid "classes" but also provide a little bit of specialization for my guys that want to slightly more "role-y" in their character creation.
Non-combat roles: Face (Rapport, Empathy), Outlaw (Provoke, Notice), Con Artist (Deceive, Security), Politico (Bureaucracy, Communications), Engineer (Engineering, Lore), Pilot (Drive, Notice), Archaeologist (Investigation, Lore), Ninja (Stealth, Investigation), Merchant (Resources, Rapport), Doctor (Lore, Notice), Navy Officer (Command, Communications), Hacker (Security, Lore), Mystic (Lore, Rapport), Explorer (Engineering, Investigation)...
When you combine roles together, like the Grappler and the Ninja, you end up with an amalgamation you might refer to as a Special Operator. Similarly, combining the Gunslinger and the Outlaw gets you the Most Wanted.
Since I am literally writing FATE rules for pulpy, superhero-y space operas...we tend to make what you'd consider "heritages" and "racial types" a part of their High Concept or Trouble (although realistically they're almost always the Trouble).
Sounds like a simple enough thing to write up as an Extra for each Archetype. In fact, that seems to be pretty close to the base Extra defined in the rulebook (with a "permission" Aspect, some "cost" in terms of skill points, and a "reward" in the form of a new way of using those skills", which means you've pretty much nailed it.
You could, if you wanted to push it a little further, add in a Stunt or two at a cost of a Refresh (maybe even making that an optional call, so people could have varying shades of Archetype), but as is, that sounds like it should work perfectly.
There's an alternate to costing Refresh in the Atomic Robo game: you instead give the GM Refresh. They still get the usual pool per scene, but now they have a little extra every session, just like you.
I really like it as an alternative to the Dresden Files system, because losing Refresh makes sense in Dresden Files, where mystic creatures have less freedom because they're shackled as much as boosted by their power. Trying to port that over to a generic system, or even with the normal people who just take Stunts in the Dresden Files, is a bit of a stretch.
I don't feel that storytelling is appropriate because it implies that the game is secondary. I also don't think it's useful to get hung up on implications and connotations. Storygame is a common term used in many RPG communities, and it's useful to be able to talk about it and storygames without tripping over semantics.
"Storytelling games" instead of "storygames". Yeah, "games" wasn't in the giant letters. My bad.
Just curious, what's the game in Microscope that's on equal footing with the storytelling?
Anyway, here's my problem with "storygames" as a label.
Fiasco and Torchbearer operate much more differently from each other than, say, Torchbearer operates from D&D. Yet both of the former are called "storygames".
And, I mean, story certainly figures in Torchbearer. An argument may be in keeping with a character's beliefs or goal, and during the argument a character's traits, personality and otherwise, can work for or against them. You've got to play out the argument too, especially if you're using "argument weapons" like intimidation, evidence, or promises. And the result of the conflict, in terms of who owes compromises to who, figure back into the story.
But that's bringing the story into the numberbang, which is also a fine way to incorporate it, but much different from how storytelling games usually operate.
Storygames vs. RPGs feels like a fake fight to me. Like Comics vs. Graphic Novels, or Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment. Is there really that big a difference?
Storygames vs. RPGs feels like a fake fight to me. Like Comics vs. Graphic Novels, or Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment. Is there really that big a difference?
No.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Torchbearer, and, by extension, the entire Burning Wheel family of games, is somewhat unique in that they meld the fluffiest side of storygames with the crunchiest side of traditional games. It's no coincidence I think they are the best, albeit the most challenging game on the market. I've also often thought that Luke Crane was responding to Ron Edward's notion of Gamist vs. Simulationist vs. Narrativist by making a game that is all three.
As to the differences, I think those comparisons are unfair. D&D was designed thirty years ago. Torchbearer is a love letter to that era of gaming filtered through the lens of modern game design. Fiasco is its own animal without similar baggage. Of course you're going to find incongruities in how they operate. Their intentions are different.
I'm not sure what to tell you, honestly. You have a problem with the term. I don't. I do think it's odd that you're tripping over the wide spectrum of what would fall under storygames, since that gulf of difference is pretty well covered by the terms fluff and crunch and can be found within the category of "traditional RPGs", too.
Storygames vs. RPGs feels like a fake fight to me. Like Comics vs. Graphic Novels, or Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment. Is there really that big a difference?
Storygames vs. RPGs feels like a fake fight to me. Like Comics vs. Graphic Novels, or Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment. Is there really that big a difference?
Yeah! Wrestling is real to me, damnit!
When you expose the legit truth on camera, roll +Real.
- ON A 10+: it’s exactly what the audience was waiting for, gain +1 Audience
- ON A 7-9: you blur the line. Gain +2 Momentum and pick 1: Creative books you in a punitive match; the revelation loses you -1 Heat with someone; you lose someone’s support backstage.
World Wide Wrestling is a pretty neat Powered by the Apocalypse game.
Storygames vs. RPGs feels like a fake fight to me. Like Comics vs. Graphic Novels, or Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment. Is there really that big a difference?
Yeah it is really dumb
Incidentally has anyone picked up a copy of the new Mindjammer edition?
How much of the book is setting? It's a chunky beast and uses Fate Core, which isn't really rules heavy, so I imagine it's a lot of fluff. Just wondering how convertible to Eclipse Phase it might be.
Storygames vs. RPGs feels like a fake fight to me. Like Comics vs. Graphic Novels, or Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment. Is there really that big a difference?
Yeah! Wrestling is real to me, damnit!
When you expose the legit truth on camera, roll +Real.
- ON A 10+: it’s exactly what the audience was waiting for, gain +1 Audience
- ON A 7-9: you blur the line. Gain +2 Momentum and pick 1: Creative books you in a punitive match; the revelation loses you -1 Heat with someone; you lose someone’s support backstage.
World Wide Wrestling is a pretty neat Powered by the Apocalypse game.
Shoot, I almost forgot this existed, and almost missed the chance to back it.
How much of the book is setting? It's a chunky beast and uses Fate Core, which isn't really rules heavy, so I imagine it's a lot of fluff. Just wondering how convertible to Eclipse Phase it might be.
It's on my list but it's pricey enough to make me think twice. There is a fair bit of setting stuff to cover, but you've gone and confused the issue once again. FAE is the rules light variant. Fate Core is a toolkit. The default end of the spectrum is what I'd call "basic crunch," which is to say there's enough there that it's recognizable to someone from D&D. But you can easily ramp up to very crunchy. It never really gets confusing in the way that traditional crunch-heavy games like Shadowrun or RIFTS would, but I think that stems from the Bronze Rule and how everything just slides into the engine like a prefab module.
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It pretty much ended up as Bioshock: Infinite a few years early.
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I think everything you described has already made its way into FATE in some way (as insane as that sounds, FATE made its bona fides in the *punk settings). More than a few in the materials released as a result of the Kickstarter.
It's probably pretty important to note that a lot of the FATE materials are available as "Pay what you want," which includes $0. This is because there's a Patreon supporting the development of a lot of the new settings (which aren't settings in the D&D sense, but more a few ideas tied together to generate a strong starting point and some interesting, unique mechanics).
If you have specific questions (other than the "compels are confusing" one, which is best answered with "practice makes perfect-ish") fire away.
As for actually running FATE? It's probably the lightest prep you'll ever do. Characters (which can be anything, including a chair the group adopts) can easily be written on the fly. It's versatile and you're going to have a hard time throwing your group in over their heads challenge-wise, if you don't give into the D&D urges of "throw a monster four levels higher than them at them because that's how challenges are made!"
I've never run WoD, and only played two or three sessions of it, so I'm excited/terrified and not really sure what to expect!
(I don't think anybody who knows me IRL hangs out here; but if you do, you know who you are. Don't read this.)
Spoilered for length:
After a few minutes of this, they start hearing growls that sound like they come from a large predator*. The growls are close by, but it's hard to tell what direction they're coming from. They are clearly getting closer, however. As the PCs act (panic, run, try calmly to find the car, whatever), the fog gets darker - they are getting farther away from the streetlights. When it’s sufficiently dark, the unseen predator seems to growl directly behind them - and soon after this, one of them is attacked by an unseen force that knocks them to the ground at the least.
Once they do something sufficiently clever, the predator is driven off, the air cools and the fog dissipates, and they find that they are only a few yards from their car - and the chase that just took place doesn't make sense given the immediate geography. The PC who was attacked probably has bits of fur and/or bite or claw marks on their clothing; the others might have other souvenirs, depending on how the attack went down.
Several days after this, one of the PCs (probably the one who attacked the beast, if any) hears their garbage cans being knocked over in the night - and finds an impossibly large footprint in the morning. They are still being hunted.
*The creature is a big cat of some sort, or at least based on one. It's not canine, and it's *definitely* not a werewolf, just because I'm sick of cliched werewolves and vampires. The idea is that they never actually see it, only its effects.
If this gets off the ground, I'm thinking of incorporating (heavily butchered) Aztec mythology into the game, because of how awesome and scary it is. (Check out Itzpapalotl's Wikipedia entry and tell me that isn't terrifying and badass.) Along those lines, the predator could be some kind of jaguar spirit, maybe.
Supernatural happenings that just might have a normal explanation if you squint your eyes and try really hard to ignore half the stuff you saw are fun!
I agree about the G+ community. I've read a few things and found a few useful links there that had some great info. One of those links very clearly explained the Fate Fractal, which really clarifies how the whole system works.
I hope this doesn't sound like BUY ALL THE FATES but you might want to pick up:
- The Fate Toolkit (also part of the SRD) for some approaches you might want to take with the "magic system"
- Fate Worlds: Worlds on Fire for Wild Blue, a game about C-list superheroes in the Wild West
- Atomic Robo: The Roleplaying Game for a neat and expandable character creation method, an alternative to spending refresh for stunts, and amazing investigation and invention systems
It's very possible I'll be bothering you two with questions in the next few days @Ardent @Glazius, so thanks in advance.
Narrativist games is probably better, meaning games where the mechanics simulate task resolution based on the requirements of plot, rather than simulate a task resolution with no respect to the narrative. So, in one game whether you are victorious in a fight depends entirely on whether it is plot appropriate, in the other, it's entirely based on the combat skills of the combatants, psychological state, envirionment etc. In other words, physical factors which do not include the fact that it is part of a story.
Of course, nigh on every game in existence is actually between the two extremes, but they represent the ends of the scale.
Also, FATE is my heart, so if you have any questions, feel free to include me as well.
Yes, that's why I said and continue to say
storytelling
because the games I refer to use most of their rules to discuss the act of storytelling, the procedures for storytelling, how to handle conflicts in storytelling, and if they exist, how the game's props exist to provide prompts for storytelling. Instead of, say, using their rules to discuss the many ways various numbers can bang into each other.
I mean, if you're playing D&D there's nothing stopping you from roleplaying Frankie Fighter and Max Mage sitting down arguing over loot from the dragon's hoard. It's just that in the Fiasco playset Dragon Slayers, you are explicitly set up to do that. (And, contrariwise, if you want some numberbang to that scene, you play Torchbearer and have an argument conflict.)
It also creates the confusing situation were it classifies the RPG system that is officially called the "Storytelling System", and has been since 2003, as not being a storytelling system.
When I read this line, I thought meatballs and snowflakes referred to grognards and storygamers.
Has anyone played Mutant Future before (one of the older edtions)? Am curious because of the setting.
When you mutate into something worse out in the blasted desert, roll+Rad...
There was a shipment that was going to contain an person, and AI, and a cyberlimb. The person was the man objective but the others would added bonus cash. Through legwork we discovered that the air transport was a huge decoy and the real transport was being done in a convoy of 3 cars. We find the convoy and the Street Shaman manages to cause a traffic accident with the help from a spirit. The majority of the convoy guards get out and start discussing options. My face is parked close to them, comes out of the car and starts with the distraction. She's telling the story of how if she's late to this corporate meeting her boss is going to fire her, and if she loses her job she'll have to move back home, and and and waterworks. 5 successes has the big men all paying attention to the tiny elf crying her eyes out.
Meanwhile the shaman casts invisibilty and sneaks in the 3rd car in the convoy. The person we need to extract is in the back. The rigger hacks into the second car. So the second and the thrid car start backing up and going they way they came. As the guards realize what is going on the aspect mage makes a run and jumps into the first car. There is still someone in the passenger seat. She manages to not get hurt by the pistol shot and fries him with a spell. The group drives off, retrieves all the goods, and dumps the convoy cars.
Lots of spell rolls, lots of decking/rigging rolls, and lots of Con rolls. No firearm usage is a first for our group, it was a great time though.
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Usually followed by "Rocket launchers, electrified katanas and bursts of radioactive hellfire do not count as 'guns'," though.
Anyone do something similar? I am trying to avoid "classes" but also provide a little bit of specialization for my guys that want to slightly more "role-y" in their character creation.
My group normally ends up like "spend hours on an elaborate plan. Then once we actually start the run; ignore the plan, kick the door in, and go shoot crazy.".
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My team of runners tends to say "Lets try to avoid a fight" and by the end of the night, we've kidnapped a city mayor, blown a hotel to kingdom come, left a dozen bodies in a parking garage, and blown up a Knight Errant corporate jet with Knight Errant officially looking the other way.
I was doing something somewhat similar for a game once upon a time (it never got off the ground, though, so I don't know if it works). But each archetype was a Stunt, two skill without bonuses attached, and a seed of an Aspect. The idea is when you pick an archetype, you get the stunt, the skill/approach on your list of skills (though you get to decide how important it is to your character), and the Aspect formed the basis of one of yours, shaped to choice.
So for instance:
Elf:
Stunt: Paint With All The Colors of the Wind - You can talk to plants. Use Rapport instead of Lore when creating advantages related to understanding nature.
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcanum
Aspect: Most elves live hidden from view forever. Describe in an Aspect why your character chose to leave the hidden veil.
Currently my players choose a heritage and racial package. It's a space operate based around the idea of D&D advanced into the future, so Terran races are elves, dwarves, human, minotaur etc plus all the aliens. Races and human heritage all have two aspects; a "negative" and a "positive". The idea of the archetype is further diversification and creation of a role within a party. Examples are like a Thane (someone who uses powered armor and light mechs), a Sprawlrake (someone who is adept at urban megacities and sneaking/thieving), a Cybermancer (someone with illegal and highly sophisticated wetware implants and nanonics hidden undetectable in their body), a Wirehawk (a guy who uses small fleets of Drones and UAVs, adept at building widgets and gizmos and taking over robots via neural interface) or a Nanojack (an advanced hacker, netrunner), etc.
My current idea is for each "type" to give someone a unique ability on a skill and possibly an aspect. It would "cost" them by having to form a character concept relating to that type, taking certain skills and having an aspect that somehow ties into the character (Like for a Sprawlrake, Grew Up in the Worst Megablock or something else related to that theme).
Not sure if that's the best way to approach it however. Still getting a feel for the impact it would have on mechanics.
You could, if you wanted to push it a little further, add in a Stunt or two at a cost of a Refresh (maybe even making that an optional call, so people could have varying shades of Archetype), but as is, that sounds like it should work perfectly.
Thread OP is good stuff, but under Horror perhaps we could have some Call of Cthulhu?
Non-combat roles: Face (Rapport, Empathy), Outlaw (Provoke, Notice), Con Artist (Deceive, Security), Politico (Bureaucracy, Communications), Engineer (Engineering, Lore), Pilot (Drive, Notice), Archaeologist (Investigation, Lore), Ninja (Stealth, Investigation), Merchant (Resources, Rapport), Doctor (Lore, Notice), Navy Officer (Command, Communications), Hacker (Security, Lore), Mystic (Lore, Rapport), Explorer (Engineering, Investigation)...
When you combine roles together, like the Grappler and the Ninja, you end up with an amalgamation you might refer to as a Special Operator. Similarly, combining the Gunslinger and the Outlaw gets you the Most Wanted.
Since I am literally writing FATE rules for pulpy, superhero-y space operas...we tend to make what you'd consider "heritages" and "racial types" a part of their High Concept or Trouble (although realistically they're almost always the Trouble).
There's an alternate to costing Refresh in the Atomic Robo game: you instead give the GM Refresh. They still get the usual pool per scene, but now they have a little extra every session, just like you.
I really like it as an alternative to the Dresden Files system, because losing Refresh makes sense in Dresden Files, where mystic creatures have less freedom because they're shackled as much as boosted by their power. Trying to port that over to a generic system, or even with the normal people who just take Stunts in the Dresden Files, is a bit of a stretch.
"Storytelling games" instead of "storygames". Yeah, "games" wasn't in the giant letters. My bad.
Just curious, what's the game in Microscope that's on equal footing with the storytelling?
Anyway, here's my problem with "storygames" as a label.
Fiasco and Torchbearer operate much more differently from each other than, say, Torchbearer operates from D&D. Yet both of the former are called "storygames".
And, I mean, story certainly figures in Torchbearer. An argument may be in keeping with a character's beliefs or goal, and during the argument a character's traits, personality and otherwise, can work for or against them. You've got to play out the argument too, especially if you're using "argument weapons" like intimidation, evidence, or promises. And the result of the conflict, in terms of who owes compromises to who, figure back into the story.
But that's bringing the story into the numberbang, which is also a fine way to incorporate it, but much different from how storytelling games usually operate.
No.
As to the differences, I think those comparisons are unfair. D&D was designed thirty years ago. Torchbearer is a love letter to that era of gaming filtered through the lens of modern game design. Fiasco is its own animal without similar baggage. Of course you're going to find incongruities in how they operate. Their intentions are different.
I'm not sure what to tell you, honestly. You have a problem with the term. I don't. I do think it's odd that you're tripping over the wide spectrum of what would fall under storygames, since that gulf of difference is pretty well covered by the terms fluff and crunch and can be found within the category of "traditional RPGs", too.
Yeah! Wrestling is real to me, damnit!
When you expose the legit truth on camera, roll +Real.
- ON A 10+: it’s exactly what the audience was waiting for, gain +1 Audience
- ON A 7-9: you blur the line. Gain +2 Momentum and pick 1: Creative books you in a punitive match; the revelation loses you -1 Heat with someone; you lose someone’s support backstage.
World Wide Wrestling is a pretty neat Powered by the Apocalypse game.
Yeah it is really dumb
Incidentally has anyone picked up a copy of the new Mindjammer edition?
How much of the book is setting? It's a chunky beast and uses Fate Core, which isn't really rules heavy, so I imagine it's a lot of fluff. Just wondering how convertible to Eclipse Phase it might be.
Shoot, I almost forgot this existed, and almost missed the chance to back it.