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It wasn't that you died, it was the WAY that you died
Professor Snugglesworth
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Last night, I typed up a small entry in another forum about "A Game of Thrones", the first book in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series (any fans here? I'd love to discuss the series with you).
The following opinion will be purposely kept vague, but I'll spoiler tag it anyway.
That got me to thinking about character deaths in videogames. Fans look at notable deaths like Aerith and call them tragic, and they are. But in Aerith's case, her death was also integral in saving the world, and she continues to help Cloud and company even in death; you could almost call it a reward (and you'll probably want to avoid reading her short story, which has her chilling out with Zack in the afterlife. No, seriously).
The real tragic deaths are the ones where characters die ignobly, failing to advance the plot or protect the people they gave their lives for. Most RPGs, however, have their doomed characters giving their lives either to protect the other party members, or to take out an unbeatable enemy (or both at once, as is usually the case), or to have them come back as some sort of semi-undead enemy (see Xenosaga). It's hard to think of many situations where important characters die just to show you that mortality is a fickle mistress.
About the only real tragic RPG death I can think of is FFIV's...
As for other genres, the best example I can think of is Resident Evil: Code Veronica.
So go ahead and share your ideas of tragic deaths. Don't forget the spoilers (I'm still new here, but it seems to me that it's okay to openly talk about games around 1997 or under, but spoiler tag anything above that).
The following opinion will be purposely kept vague, but I'll spoiler tag it anyway.
I had commented how the sudden death of an important character left a big impact on me for a particular reason. I was warned in advance that just about any character, no matter how important they may appear to the plot, can die at any time. Sure enough, the first notable character dies before the book's end, but it wasn't the fact that he died, but the circumstances that led to his death. While trying to uncover a conspiracy that threatens both his kingdom and his family, he is captured and imprisoned, and then executed publicly in front of his own children. The truth dies with him, and his family continues to battle and suffer, making his sacrifice pointless.
That got me to thinking about character deaths in videogames. Fans look at notable deaths like Aerith and call them tragic, and they are. But in Aerith's case, her death was also integral in saving the world, and she continues to help Cloud and company even in death; you could almost call it a reward (and you'll probably want to avoid reading her short story, which has her chilling out with Zack in the afterlife. No, seriously).
The real tragic deaths are the ones where characters die ignobly, failing to advance the plot or protect the people they gave their lives for. Most RPGs, however, have their doomed characters giving their lives either to protect the other party members, or to take out an unbeatable enemy (or both at once, as is usually the case), or to have them come back as some sort of semi-undead enemy (see Xenosaga). It's hard to think of many situations where important characters die just to show you that mortality is a fickle mistress.
About the only real tragic RPG death I can think of is FFIV's...
Tellah. All the other characters in that game sacrifice themselves to protect Cecil and the others (and then live through their own sacrifice afterwards), but Tellah was the one exception; not only does he stay dead, but he fails in what he set out to do; he fought purely to avenge his dead daughter, and hits Golbez with his strongest magic spell, but Golbez survives the attack, and mocks Tellah for his wasted sacrifice.
As for other genres, the best example I can think of is Resident Evil: Code Veronica.
For a zombie series, it felt like playable characters were impervious to movie-style deaths. Even Ada ended up alive, despite both scenarios having her die in somewhat brutal ways (shot in the heart while falling to her death, or slashed up by the Tyrant; either way, she shouldn't have lived, but it's likely that Wesker injected her with one of his samples).
That changed in Code Veronica. Claire and Steve become seperated halfway through, but Claire manages to find him. Unfortunately, he had already been injected with one of the viruses, having him mutate into a hideous hunchback-like creature. He manages to snap out of it just long enough to protect Claire from a plant creature, but he still had an ugly death (although it's hinted that his DNA samples might serve as a future RE plot point).
That changed in Code Veronica. Claire and Steve become seperated halfway through, but Claire manages to find him. Unfortunately, he had already been injected with one of the viruses, having him mutate into a hideous hunchback-like creature. He manages to snap out of it just long enough to protect Claire from a plant creature, but he still had an ugly death (although it's hinted that his DNA samples might serve as a future RE plot point).
So go ahead and share your ideas of tragic deaths. Don't forget the spoilers (I'm still new here, but it seems to me that it's okay to openly talk about games around 1997 or under, but spoiler tag anything above that).
Professor Snugglesworth on
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Shadow of the Colossus:
I'm sure there are more, but those are the first 2 games that spring to mind.
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bloop-bloop.
ding!
Actually, I always found Mario 64's drowning animation to be the most brutal. The way Mario coughs up and then limply floats around made my kid sister at the time gasp in horror. ;/
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They struck me as innocent. It's kinda like how when you watch the news and a murder is discussed and you think "Damn, that sucks" but when they talk about the guy that tortures puppies you go "Awwwwwww...poor puppies."
Both meaningfull and meaningless.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Yeah, but like you said, they did it to protect you. It would have been many times more tragic if Leviathan really did snack on poor little Rydia instead of spiriting her away for training.
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Ok, for me: Resident Evil 4, those two police officers at the beginning without names. Utterly pointless death, you didn't really like them, but they WERE the only other alive males around. Who's going to stand around the campfire and sing with you NOW?
Main character down!! Main character down!!
Not only was it for me, a wtf plot twist, the way he died was fucking awesome
I think the main thing was that her actions seemed a lot more excusable than James's or Eddie's. Watching her get shafted worse than either of them seriously bummed me out.
...what game is this?
Awesome.
Sounds like
Also, for the purposes of contributing to the thread, Digital Devil Saga 2.
My favorites (by which I mean "made me the saddest") were Argilla and Cielo
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Oh.
Does that count?
I mean..
Edit: You have no soul Drez.
Oh I got off all right.
I can't think of any videogame deaths that were nearly as tragic or wasted the ASoIaF one you mentioned. I always roll my eyes when a game character returns from the dead, though.
God of War spoilers-
edit- Oh god I can't believe I fucked up the spoiler tags in a post criticizing someone else's use of them. They work differently at Platforumers!
On the subject of God of War, though, all of Greek Mythology is one big soap opera so, really, I can forgive a lot in these games.
That would actually qualify as a suicide. Still tragic, but it's a bit worse when the character shows signs of wanting to live.
The first couple of deaths were sad, but afterwards it just felt like they wanted to kill the characters just for the heck of it.
On the subject of MGS, I would have to nominate MGS3's....
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Not that it's a problem, being a Firefox user, but surely there's an easier way?
......get the hell out of here.
Are you serious? What the frick-frack?
Now I really need to buy that game.
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As far as I can remember, I've never played a game where a death had an emotional hit like that. The only game that really just gave me that "Ouch, damn that hurts" feeling was the ending of Fallout and that wasn't even a death.
I don't think I was ever more impacted by a game, than when the baby metroid in Super Metroid dies.
Screw Final Fantasies, or whatever other JRPG you wanna throw out there. That little baby metroid deserves my tears.
On a side note, at what point does it become okay to openly talk about spoilers?
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Also, I don't really think that, even if they did come back for reals, their deaths would be "pointless." They all died for something, and they all made the choice to die, so it's not like it wasn't a pivotal point for each character's development.
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Well right now, I worry that any future deaths in the Ice and Fire series will inevitably reach a point where I'll just roll my eyes and go "oh look, he killed another character for no reason. ho hum." The first book's major death does advance the plot, but I would hate to see a cool or beloved character die just for the sake of exploitation.
I really want to make a thread on the book, by the way. What would be the best subforum for it, Writer's Block?
/offtopic
I gave my thoughts on the OP about spoilers. if you insist that I should spoiler tag everything, then I will, but I have seen some clearly-known plot twists thrown around untagged (Aerith).
Plus some of the deaths felt a bit written off. Gale basically just stands around and lets himself get impaled, instead of busting out a few moves like the badass I thought he was.
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The spoiler tag means nothing if I have to open it to know what game you're talking about.
I'd shoot for D&D. I think Writer's Block is more like an Artist's Corner but for people who draw with words.
I would assume so.
Annnd /Edit/ After quick browsing Writers Block I'd say it's a toss up on where it belongs. Go with your gut. Use the Schwartz. Draw straws. Etc etc. /Edit/
Er, sorry, spoilers.
Anyway, uh, I'd say Gabriel Knight 1 had some key points:
2) When the junkie in the church dies when you get the tattoo from him.
3) When Wolfgang Ritter willingly sacrifices himself and allows the thing in the voodoo mound to PUNCH A HOLE THROUGH HIS CHEST TO EAT HIS HEART so Gabe can get the talisman.
4) The end, when you can either kill Malia or try to save her.
-) Alternately, if you let Doctor John reach you in the cartel at the end (by entering the middle room and just standing around, for instance) he punches a hole through your chest which is rather brutal.
#3 was especially hard on me.
Sorry, I threw that spoiler tag in there in a ninja-edit.
Its in regards to super metroid.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
The game did a great job of making you feel guilty about killing things.
Oh, and OP, I'm running through "A Song of Ice and Fire" too; I'm on the last chapters of the third book. The author's tendency to put people in horrible situations, especially when they try to do what they think is right? Yeah, it only gets worse. Much worse. And it happens to everyone. Right now I'm feeling for a character that I never thought I'd truly feel for in the first book. Several of them, come to think of it.
I'm loving it.
Phantasmagoria:
It was the most fucked up thing that could have happened to your character, though. That kind of
If I hadn't already
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Also, the music for that was perfect.
I made the thread in Writer's Block. Come on over
Also, now that you mention it....
Holy shit. I had no idea.
But how does this affect the ending? You can have other story characters join you too, right (after mutiple playthroughs)? What the heck happens if you permakill all of them?
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