Trespasser in my yard. What next?(B.C.)

KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
So today around lunch(1:30PM), there was a kids soccer game going on in the field directly outside of my back yard, which is fine.

A ball was kicked over my fence and landed in my bushes, where it was not visible from the outside.

The yard is entirely fenced, and the gate to the back(Which is where it opens to the field) is locked from the inside. The gate at the front is latched, but not locked.

I have a Shiba Inu, who is not violent at all, but he does not like children, is territorial, and at the time was eating a bone in the yard.


Now here's where the fun starts. Despite my fiancee and I being home, an adult(either a parent or a supervisor of the kids league), unable to open the locked gate, without any notification, boosted the child(10ish) over the fence to retrieve the ball. Our dog immediately got a bit defensive(Since, you know, unknown kid in the yard while he's eating his bone), and walked towards the kid. At this time, my fiancee was going out to the back, and noticed the kid walking away from the dog. When we confronted both the kid and the adult, the kid didn't say much, and the adult used the excuse that they were just looking for their ball. We told them to get out of our yard immediately. At first the adult protested, before claiming that the kid couldn't get out, because the gate was locked. He then asked us if we found the ball to contact the league that plays there.

So.

So far we've contacted the League and mentioned our relative displeasure at the adult tossing a kid over a locked fence into a yard with a dog, we've contacted the city about it as well. We called the police and they said that it didn't "count" as trespassing because it happened during the day, despite the fact that in the Trespassing act it's doesn't mention anything about day/night, and that's a ridiculous law.

Currently all offices are closed, since it's Sunday, but we've left a bunch of messages.


So now the question:

What's the next step? Are there other places to contact? Is there a way of further dissuading trespassers than locking a fence(And preferably that doesn't involve putting up big signs that make it look like we have stuff that can be stolen). Should I be keeping some sort of record of everything that happened? We didn't get the parents name or number because we were mostly concerned about getting them the hell off of our property.

Also, if our dog had attacked the kid while defending his yard and bone, would we have been liable? Is there a way to avoid any problems like that if people break onto our property again?


TL:DR: A guy sent a kid over our locked fence to break onto our property, putting the child at risk and breaking onto our property. We're furious and don't want this to happen again. Is there anything we're not thinking of?

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  • PacificstarPacificstar Registered User regular
    Dude, sounds to me like you're over reacting. If I were you, the correct response would be to post a "Beware of Dog" sign.

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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    I don't understand how being mad at someone for sending a child to illegally break onto my property is overreacting.

    It's not like it's a 2-3 foot tall picket fence either, that the kid just walked over, it's 6' tall and solid except for latticing for the top 6".

    BTW, other than working as an apparently completely ineffective deterrent for people randomly walking onto our property, the reason the gate is locked is because in certain weather it will open on its own. We would like our dogs to not get out if that happens, to the gate's locked to prevent it from opening. There's no way that kid could've gotten back over the fence, so he would've had to have unlocked the gate, and it doesn't lock again from the outside. The park is near a busy street that's pretty easy to get to from our yard, assuming the gate is open.

    Khavall on
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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    A supervised child around lunchtime on a Sunday afternoon got into your yard to retrieve a soccer ball being used in a game you knew was being played near your house and you contacted both the police and the city several times?

    MegaMan001 on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Khavall wrote: »
    Also, if our dog had attacked the kid while defending his yard and bone, would we have been liable?

    Not a lawyer, but you likely would not have been liable, since he was trespassing. Though, you may want to invest in a 'Beware of Dog' sign for your fence.

    And a good shakin' cane, for yourself.

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    MegaMan001 was warned for this.
    I don't think you've anticipated of how you're acting like a needy psychopath who's bothering the police and city unnecessarily and will probably end up being 'that guy' in the neighborhood, no.

    To answer the original question.

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    The thing is, he's not overreacting. He's protecting his dog.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    A supervised child around lunchtime on a Sunday afternoon got into your yard to retrieve a soccer ball being used in a game you knew was being played near your house and you contacted both the police and the city several times?

    Yes, a supervising parent sent a child into an unknown yard over a locked gate with a dog that he had no way of knowing if it was violent or not, in a criminal act.

    Hey you know what? I was home. I was outside not 10 seconds after the kid jumped the locked fence gate. Could they not have waited goddamn 10 seconds to see if anyone was home? Could they not have gone around to the front and knocked on the door? Could they not have done literally anything than illegally breaking onto my property?


    What if my dog had attacked the kid?
    What if the kid had left via the gate, unlocking it and leaving it open, and my dog escaped and got hit by a car?
    Heck, what if the kid wasn't with a soccer game and some random dude sent a kid over the fence to steal stuff? We would have no way of knowing until he had already jumped the locked fucking 6 foot tall fence and we confronted him.

    Khavall on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    As I was first reading your post, I was totally on your side. Not only did they jump into your yard, but you were also home at the time - so clearly they didn't even bother to knock on the door and ask permission to retrieve their ball - which presumably you would have given.

    But then you go and contact the police multiple times and the city over something like this? I mean, fair enough if they were testing your back door, but they literally were just in the yard to get the ball that was clearly there. You overreacted to a ridiculous degree. Thank christ you're not my neighbour.

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    I mean, for what it's worth, they probably should have gone to your front door to ask permission. Is it worth contacting police and local government over? No.

    Furthermore, if a six foot high fence, locked gates, and a guard dog can't keep a child out of your property I'm not entirely sure what else you want to do keep people at bay. Flood lights? Razor wire? Maybe closed circuit cameras and invest in a few guns?

    Seriously, man, what's your problem here? This wasn't a random meth head hopping your fence to murder you and your family, it was a kid trying to get his ball back. Something you, I, and most people on this forum have done.

    If a violation of your personal property (fence notwithstanding) sends you into an emotional tail spin where you go to an internet forum to clutch your proverbial pearls and wonder out loud 'What else could I have done from some STRANGER entering my PROPERTY?!' then my advice would have to be to move out of the city and buy a plot of land in the country.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    A supervised child around lunchtime on a Sunday afternoon got into your yard to retrieve a soccer ball being used in a game you knew was being played near your house and you contacted both the police and the city several times?

    Dude.
    Khavali wrote:
    Also, if our dog had attacked the kid while defending his yard and bone, would we have been liable? Is there a way to avoid any problems like that if people break onto our property again?

    This is super key, because yes, he probably would be. Even if he was in the right according to what's written, how do you think a judge in a civil case would react to the image of a child being parked in front of him having been mauled by a dog?

    Even if it's just to get a ball, going over someone's fence is extremely shitty. You can fucking knock / ring the doorbell and ask if you can retrieve the ball / frisbee / whatever that you tossed onto their property. People have pets that can act unpredictably around strangers, they have stuff they don't want you walking on / touching and it's a private Goddamn residence.
    What's the next step? Are there other places to contact? Is there a way of further dissuading trespassers than locking a fence(And preferably that doesn't involve putting up big signs that make it look like we have stuff that can be stolen). Should I be keeping some sort of record of everything that happened? We didn't get the parents name or number because we were mostly concerned about getting them the hell off of our property.

    If it were me, I'd be a total asshole to the soccer league so that, at the very least, they know to avoid playing near your place (keep calling them to ask about your complaint & what they intend to do about it. Be polite, but pester them every day about it until they give you an answer you like or you feel that you've otherwise been sufficiently annoying). It's shitty to be known as the 'lawn Nazi' or whatever, but it's better than having some kid get bitten by your dog and then getting sued / ordered to have your dog put down / etc.

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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I don't think you've anticipated of how you're acting like a needy psychopath who's bothering the police and city unnecessarily and will probably end up being 'that guy' in the neighborhood, no.

    To answer the original question.

    Really? A needy psychopath? Maybe calling the police (but calling the league was a good idea) was a bit much but you are going waaaaay too far there.

    Its not weird to not want people in your back yard. He has a six foot privacy fence and a defensive dog breed. I think thats a pretty good indication of 'keep out' and an adult boosting a kid over the fence IS a violation of that indication. Not to mention shitty 'supervision'. Its also good to have a record of that kind of stuff. If it happens again and a kid gets bitten by the dog then being able to clearly point to previous attempts to keep people out is going to help.

    @khavall
    And yeah, I think a 'beware of dog' sign would be helpful.

    Wassermelone on
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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Man. I really don't want to put up a "Beware of dog" sign. I mean I can, but a: Doesn't that just send an "If you want to steal stuff, steal it here! They care enough to put up a sign!" signal?
    We don't even live in a bad neighbourhood, we live in a good one, which is why we never really think about people randomly breaking onto the property.
    Also, like.... really the dog isn't violent or aggressive, assuming random strangers don't invade his yard while he's eating a bone. It feels shitty to think that it's actually necessary to put up an extra sign like that.

    Khavall on
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Really? A needy psychopath? Maybe calling the police (but calling the league was a good idea) was a bit much but you are going waaaaay too far there.

    Why not call the police? The people breaking into the yard broke the law, and it theory the police are exactly who you're supposed to call when someone breaks the law rather than trying to take matters into your own hands.

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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    This is super key, because yes, he probably would be. Even if he was in the right according to what's written, how do you think a judge in a civil case would react to the image of a child being parked in front of him having been mauled by a dog?

    If we're going to talk about whether or not he would have been liable, it may be useful to cite some law instead of just baselessly speculating.
    • He wouldn't have been liable if the dog had bit the kid.
    • The kid didn't do any damage.
    • They were just trying to get a ball.

    I am firmly on the "overreacting" / "angry old man" side.

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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    You know what? If the situation was "A kid lost a ball, climbed over the fence to get it, I found him"? I would be mad at the kid, probably mention it to his parents, probably mention it to the league because they should at least know it's going on and to maybe mention that the houses are all, like, privately owned residences and not part of the park. And that would be the end of it.

    Kids do dumb shit, and they make mistakes, and they don't really understand shit like that. And some kid going "Damn there's my ball, I don't want to have to talk to some random stranger adult just to get it back" is totally understandable.

    If I had done anything else in that situation which didn't happen, I could totally understand people saying that I'm overreacting. Because yes, calling the police because a 10-year old kid walks into my yard is too much.




    But a grown-assed man who was supposed to be in charge of the kids lifted the kid over into an unknown yard with an unknown dog after finding the gate was locked, without any attempt to contact the owners. When we told him to get out, his first response was to argue with us. A fucking adult went "Welp, you've lost your ball kids, who wants to break the damn law?!".

    Khavall on
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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    _J_ wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    This is super key, because yes, he probably would be. Even if he was in the right according to what's written, how do you think a judge in a civil case would react to the image of a child being parked in front of him having been mauled by a dog?

    If we're going to talk about whether or not he would have been liable, it may be useful to cite some law instead of just baselessly speculating.
    • He wouldn't have been liable if the dog had bit the kid.
    • The kid didn't do any damage.
    • They were just trying to get a ball.

    I am firmly on the "overreacting" / "angry old man" side.

    Would you be okay with me just walking into your place to chill, J? I mean, hey, I'm just there to chill, bro. I'm not breaking nothin'.


    And even if you're going to claim that, sure, you'd totally be fine with strangers walking into your home so long as they fit some description of benign, not everyone shares this cavalier perspective. Some people really like privacy, and not only ought that privacy be respected, it's a legally protected right.

    There's no reason to be tossing kids over a fence when you can just knock on the door.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Khavall wrote: »
    Man. I really don't want to put up a "Beware of dog" sign. I mean I can, but a: Doesn't that just send an "If you want to steal stuff, steal it here! They care enough to put up a sign!" signal?
    We don't even live in a bad neighbourhood, we live in a good one, which is why we never really think about people randomly breaking onto the property.
    Also, like.... really the dog isn't violent or aggressive, assuming random strangers don't invade his yard while he's eating a bone. It feels shitty to think that it's actually necessary to put up an extra sign like that.

    The idea behind a 'Beware of Dog' sign is that it, in theory, it will give an adult pause before doing something relentlessly stupid like tossing their kid over your fence to be attacked by said dog.


    I'm not sure if it would be effective or not (though if you live in a decent neighborhood, I doubt it would paint a target on your property).

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    @Khavall‌ That makes your problem with the dipshit guy running the soccer game, not the city nor the police.

    @The Ender‌ The guy wasn't just chilling in his home, it was a child trying to get a soccer ball back. Likewise, it wasn't a break in or an invasion of privacy he was trying to get a soccer ball back on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.

    I get where you guys are coming from, it's an invasion of privacy because someone went into your yard, but these things have context. Is it worth several phone calls to municipal authorities? Fuck, no. It's not. It makes you look paranoid at best and insane at worst.

    @Khavall It doesn't even sound like you're really upset that a kid ended up in your yard. Your original post pleaded for options (beyond a locked gate and six foot fence) to keep a child out of your yard, but then you cringed at the idea of putting up a sign because it may paint your dog in an unfavorable light or invite people in to steal things.

    Also, you don't seem to get the disconnect that you're willing to defend a six foot fence and lock your gate, but similarly unwilling to put up a sign to notify people that your Shiba Inu is around and will possibly attack people on sight who enter the yard uninvited by his/her owner.

    I think you're more pissed off with the adult who put the kid in that position, which I agree with - it was a stupid thing done by a stupid person, but contacting the local government, police department, and then soliciting advice on how to better secure your property against children (who can clearly circumvent your current security so easily) is ridiculous.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    MegaMan001 wrote:
    The guy wasn't just chilling in his home, it was a child trying to get a soccer ball back. Likewise, it wasn't a break in or an invasion of privacy he was trying to get a soccer ball back on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.

    I get where you guys are coming from, it's an invasion of privacy because someone went into your yard, but these things have context. Is it worth several phone calls to municipal authorities? Fuck, no. It's not. It makes you look paranoid at best and insane at worst.

    if that were my backyard, I'd have freaked out. My privacy is extremely important to me, and I do not give two fucks why you feel you should be able to violate it, and what you feel the appropriate context is for invading my personal space.

    It's great that you feel that your own privacy is up for grabs if the stars are right; quite a few people do not feel the same way, and the police are who you're supposed to call when you have a problem with people breaking the law, or so I'm told. It's not 'paranoid' or 'insane' just because you don't share the same perspective on privacy.

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  • MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    Becoming 'that guy'could make people afraid to approach you, and make them more sneaky/furtive if they try to get their ball again.
    I would still complain, but be a bit more friendly about it. Tell the league that you would prefer that people come to your front door and ask for help getting their ball. Tell them you are concerned about the kids' safety and would rather help out.

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  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    FYI at least in the US, a beware of dog sign actually puts you more liable since it is basically assuming you admit your dog is aggressive more or less.

    if you want to post a sign post a no trespassing sign

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Damn, if it were me watching a grown ass man boost a kid into my yard I'd freak the fuck out and I don't even own a dog. I can't imagine how much worse I'd feel if I had a dog potentially in danger, too.

    Some of ya'll appear to be trippin'.

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Your description of the dog as "does not like children, is territorial" makes me think you definitely should put up a Beware of Dog sign.

    Also maybe put one up like, "Please contact homeowner to retrieve ball/ frisbee/whatever."

    In a perfect world neither would be needed, but we don't live in a perfect world.

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  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Damn, if it were me watching a grown ass man boost a kid into my yard I'd freak the fuck out and I don't even own a dog. I can't imagine how much worse I'd feel if I had a dog potentially in danger, too.

    Some of ya'll appear to be trippin'.

    I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't have a right to be annoyed, or talk to the soccer league, etc. But calling the cops, the city, and wondering what else he can do to avoid this is kinda going overboard. Best thing would be to speak to the soccer league, even if it's just so they can tell all their parents "that guy's really particular, so tread lightly".

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Damn, if it were me watching a grown ass man boost a kid into my yard I'd freak the fuck out and I don't even own a dog. I can't imagine how much worse I'd feel if I had a dog potentially in danger, too.

    Some of ya'll appear to be trippin'.

    I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't have a right to be annoyed, or talk to the soccer league, etc. But calling the cops, the city, and wondering what else he can do to avoid this is kinda going overboard. Best thing would be to speak to the soccer league, even if it's just so they can tell all their parents "that guy's really particular, so tread lightly".

    I'm saying I would have called the police while it was happening.

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  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    noir_blood was warned for this.
    Cambiata wrote: »
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Damn, if it were me watching a grown ass man boost a kid into my yard I'd freak the fuck out and I don't even own a dog. I can't imagine how much worse I'd feel if I had a dog potentially in danger, too.

    Some of ya'll appear to be trippin'.

    I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't have a right to be annoyed, or talk to the soccer league, etc. But calling the cops, the city, and wondering what else he can do to avoid this is kinda going overboard. Best thing would be to speak to the soccer league, even if it's just so they can tell all their parents "that guy's really particular, so tread lightly".

    I'm saying I would have called the police while it was happening.

    Seriously?

    Like, I get if it was an adult, or it was in the middle of the night. This was a kid trying to get his ball back. They did it the wrong way obviously, but what's the point of the police? To make sure everyone knows you're an asshole?

    ceres on
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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Uh, I'm going to make an effort not to rise to your baiting here. The reason I would be afraid if an adult with a kid broke into my home is because I live alone, and I've been mugged near my home before.

    Cambiata on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    A world where every property reg and fence dispute were enforced to the letter would not be a very nice world to live in.

    Yes, they were wrong to enter your property unauthorized. On the other hand they caused no damage and were there extremely briefly.

    If you have an aggressive dog, put a sign up. Better yet maybe don't leave it unsupervised and untethered.

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  • HollerHoller Registered User regular
    After stopping reading this thread halfway through due to wank, I'll just put my thoughts here:

    The kids parents were being absolute dumbshits, I can't believe they did that. They are lucky nothing happened.

    But, that is also a pretty glaring fact about this: nothing really did happen. It's fine to call the non-emergency line to report trespassing, and absolutely right to call the league hosting these games and have them remind the soccer-loving dumbshit parents that trespassing is extremely dangerous. That was a very smart thing to do.

    The cops saying trespassing can only happen at night is hilariously/depressingly bad police work. I'm not sure there is much to be done about that, though. If it keeps happening, maybe the local news station would be interested in calling them out on that, but with one incident, that really isn't much of a story.

    If your dog bit the kid, I am almost certain you would not be considered liable for a trespasser, breaking into your property, being attacked by a dog. A beware of dog sign might be an ok investment, but as this seems like a one-off case of dumbshittery, I'm not sure that is worth it. I think it WOULD be worth contacting your local animal control office during business hours to ask them what exactly your risk/responsibility here is.

    Other than that, this doesn't really seem like it was a huge issue on it's face (though emotionally/theoretically, definitely jarring and scary). But it's pretty much all done with, no one got hurt, and I don't really think there is much else to be done. You certainly CAN spend more time/effort/money beefing up security, but if this is your only security incident, it probably isn't worth it.

    If it happens again, I would strongly chastise the parents about the fact that they just not only broke the law but, more importantly, willfully put their child's life in danger in order to avoid knocking on someone's door. Remind them that if you had an aggressively territorial rottweiler (which could have run out the dog door the second the child came down on the other side of that six foot fence), their child would likely not be alive by the time someone was able to get into the back yard. I would also let them know that you'll be heading over to the park to speak with the team's coach about the incident (and then do that).

    Hopefully the league sends out an email to all the parents reminding them not to be fucking morons, and you're free of this from now on. Good luck.

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  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    A world where every property reg and fence dispute were enforced to the letter would not be a very nice world to live in.

    Yes, they were wrong to enter your property unauthorized. On the other hand they caused no damage and were there extremely briefly.

    If you have an aggressive dog, put a sign up. Better yet maybe don't leave it unsupervised and untethered.

    It was in his yard behind a 6ft fence, I think that makes it safely confined.

    Just put up a sign, it will give pause to anyone else with the bright idea of hoisting a child over your fence and make them more likely to just go knock on your door next time.

    Contact and politely mention it to the league if you want, as @MulysaSempronius‌ said be sure to phrase it as you being concerned for the safety of both the child and your dog. Being angry when you contact them will just make it more likely that they will ignore you as the cliche "get off my lawn" guy.

    LostNinja on
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  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    From what you have described, the kids+adult probably didn't know you had a dog in your yard either.

    You have every right to be angry because people are wandering around near your house without your permission. However, I think the general consensus is that the situation could be handled differently. After all, you said that you were living in a relatively good neighborhood and the ball(?) league is probably comprised of your neighbors. And if they are/have been playing in the adjacent field, the ball will/would have been over your fence many more times.

    I think you've done more than you can so far, though no good resolution was reached. From your side of the story, all that happened from the other party's perspective is:
    a) You chased them away from your property without giving them back their ball
    b) You've lodged complaints to the League

    I would recommend that you find the ball, contact the league, explain why you are so angry, return the ball and draw up some sort of agreement or proper way of handling similar situations in the future. So, for example, the next time a ball is over your fence, the children are to ring your doorbell and ask for the ball. Or if you're not in, give the league your phone number so that they can contact you about the lost property. If you catch anyone trying to climb the fence, you get to keep their ball and/or whatever more serious consequence.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    LostNinja wrote: »
    A world where every property reg and fence dispute were enforced to the letter would not be a very nice world to live in.

    Yes, they were wrong to enter your property unauthorized. On the other hand they caused no damage and were there extremely briefly.

    If you have an aggressive dog, put a sign up. Better yet maybe don't leave it unsupervised and untethered.

    It was in his yard behind a 6ft fence, I think that makes it safety confined.

    apparently not!

    I mean, if you get right down to the letter of the law, OP is in the right. If his dog had injured the kid, it's possible or even likely he would not have been liable.

    But, so what? Is that a good outcome? You live in a neighborhood where kids play sports; balls in yards and other minor property rights 'violations' are gonna be a fact of life. Better to deal with that in a reasonable way than tilt at this windmill.

    ed: the police told you that 'trespassing only happens at night' not because they're bad at their jobs or whatever, but because they know that actually prosecuting cases like this would be insanity.

    Tell the league you don't want them playing near your house, if you're really attached to being obstinate about this. Put a sign up warning people about your dog.

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  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    It seems like you're going a little overboard, with the multiple attempts at getting police involved when they already told you no, but I understand. Not sure what it's like in BC, but here even if the adult/child combo were completely in the wrong, and responsible, and your dog bit that kid, your dog would have to be put down (if they reported it). My cousin had to have his boxer put down when it bit a trespasser who decided to hop their 5 ft chain link fence, and cut across the yard, rather than going around the block.

    I would suggest you make the complaint to the league, so they can remind people not to throw kids over strange fences; and put up beware of dog signs on your fences.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    But, so what? Is that a good outcome? You live in a neighborhood where kids play sports; balls in yards and other minor property rights 'violations' are gonna be a fact of life. Better to deal with that in a reasonable way than tilt at this windmill.

    I don't agree with this at all.

    My parents live right on the back of a golf course, for example, and stray balls constantly go into their yard. It's not even fenced, yet nobody goes in to retrieve their ball. Why? Because it's not their property, and both the municipality & golf course take it seriously because people have kicked-up shitstorms in the past over it. You go into someone's backyard to get your ball and get caught, your membership with the course is cancelled - no refunds.

    That's the kind of policy that only happens if you're an 'asshole' - also known as a reasonable adult - about people feeling like they own your backyard.

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  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Khavall probably wouldn't face any liability if his dog were to bite a kid who jumped over the fence. Dog bites are not part of negligence theory in tort law, but rather what's known as "strict liability", i.e. this happens and there's no negligence analysis to prove whether or not defendant should be held liable for the injury.

    However, dog bite liability operate under what's colloquially known as the "one free bite rule", i.e. that a dog must have been established as having known dangerous propensities in order for a bite to result in strict liability. KDP is established either by 1) particular breeds or 2) previous bites - i.e. the "one free bite." This varies on a state by state basis, however. What is common, however, even among states that don't have the one bite rule, is that the victim has to have been lawfully on the property in order to recover.

    Also however, certain states would also deny liability, even under strict liability analysis, for the fact that the trespasser is basically 100% negligent insofar as they literally needed help scaling a fence in order to commit the trespass that casually resulted in the dog bite. This isn't even the comparative negligence/contributory negligence analysis (negligence isn't a part of dog bite cases, again) but it's an edge case involving coming to a hazard.

    As far as the trespass, the time of day does not matter (trespass, not 1700's burglary, here) and frankly if the kid startles the dog and DOES get bit then that's going to be a real pain in the ass to sort out, even though he's legally abso-fucking-lutely correct. Damages, afaik, aren't really awarded for this sort of thing though after a judgment - i.e. "nominal" damages. Depending on the state, there are statutes that will set damages.
    A world where every property reg and fence dispute were enforced to the letter would not be a very nice world to live in.

    Yes, they were wrong to enter your property unauthorized. On the other hand they caused no damage and were there extremely briefly.

    If you have an aggressive dog, put a sign up. Better yet maybe don't leave it unsupervised and untethered.

    Even better still, stay the fuck out of the yard. Even an unaggressive dog might get startled, given that there's a strange person trespassing in the yard after hopping the fence. He has a fence up, he is under no obligation to chain up his dog in his own fenced yard; especially a yard with a 6-foot good-neighbor fence, not a little 3-foot chain link. Also: that's his yard - If I (or Khavall) wanted kids running around outside and no way to let our dog outside, we'd have stayed renting in an apartment.

    Don't want to get the police called on you because that's uncomfortable and embarrassing? Don't jump fences into peoples' yards.
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Damn, if it were me watching a grown ass man boost a kid into my yard I'd freak the fuck out and I don't even own a dog. I can't imagine how much worse I'd feel if I had a dog potentially in danger, too.

    Some of ya'll appear to be trippin'.

    I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't have a right to be annoyed, or talk to the soccer league, etc. But calling the cops, the city, and wondering what else he can do to avoid this is kinda going overboard. Best thing would be to speak to the soccer league, even if it's just so they can tell all their parents "that guy's really particular, so tread lightly".

    I'm saying I would have called the police while it was happening.

    Seriously?

    Like, I get if it was an adult, or it was in the middle of the night. This was a kid trying to get his ball back. They did it the wrong way obviously, but what's the point of the police? To make sure everyone knows you're an asshole?

    The point of the police is to establish a paper trail, especially because an adult was the one who boosted the kid over, and because the adult apparently doesn't have the common decency and/or sense to stay out of fenced yards.


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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    Im seriously surprised by the amount of people who think its strange that a homeowner is weirded out by someone climbing over their six foot privacy fence.

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  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    this must be a social context thing because i can't imagine why a kid collecting a ball from your back yard could be upsetting. ask yourself - how much time do you really want to spend worrying about it, given no dog-mauling-worst-case-scenario actually played out? it already seems like way too much. and i can guaruntee that the more of a fuss you make, the more chance there is another ball will come over your fence. at a greater velocity. aimed at the window.

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  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    bsjezz wrote: »
    this must be a social context thing

    Yeah, it must be.
    because i can't imagine why a kid collecting a ball from your back yard could be upsetting. ask yourself - how much time do you really want to spend worrying about it, given no dog-mauling-worst-case-scenario actually played out? it already seems like way too much. and i can guaruntee that the more of a fuss you make, the more chance there is another ball will come over your fence. at a greater velocity. aimed at the window.

    Kid "collecting ball from backyard" =/= Kid boosted by adult over 6 foot privacy fence to go look for his ball, with dog in backyard, without the adult having knocked to see if the homeowner was home first.

    Have I hopped over a fence to get a ball back? Sure, but it was a 3-foot chain link and I had an understanding with the neighbors first, and wasn't thrown bodily by my dad over a privacy fence into a strangers yard.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Yeah I think that's the thing the people outraged about calling the police seem to be missing - that this wasn't just a kid, this was an adult, and an adult who argued that it was OK for him to break in at that. I find that a pretty hair raising scenario, personally.

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  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    I do not understand how so many people think it should just be OK for an adult to go straight to tossing a kid over a 6' fence into someone else's yard, for any reason. Knock on the fucking door for crying out loud. You don't know what's on the other side of that fence. There could be any number of unsafe things that aren't dogs over there. Also how was the kid supposed to get back? It's just all bad.

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