#1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.
#2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
My personal intellectual hero is F. A. Hayek, founder of modern microeconomic thought. I like to call myself what he ended up calling himself near the end of his life: fiscal libertarian.
#1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.
#2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
His theories and observations evolved over the course of his life. There is some difference between The Road to Serfdom and The Fatal Conceit.
Not memorizing every passage of your chosen philosophical deity is forgivable.
Having no response to it at all is confusing.
Town planning needs way more regulation in this country, it's far too mishmash wish is a massive waste of finite resources.
Your last point there is defensible, but local governments are given a measure of autonomy because that's how it has to be. I guess you could propose some legislation at the state level to deal with regional gaps in such planning.
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you know when you said that Hayek invented modern micro, I wondered whether I would have to challenge you to distinguish between Hayek's definition of "prices reflect information" knowledge vs economic knowledge in the Arrow-Debreu general equilibrium sense, which is a hot topic amongst neo-Austrians - a lot of disagreement over what kind of game-theoretic model appropriately captures the Use of Knowledge in Society literary model.
I did not think that you would confuse it for "knowledge" as in "having read the book enough to remember that there is a whole chapter on town planning"
you know when you said that Hayek invented modern micro, I wondered whether I would have to challenge you to distinguish between Hayek's definition of "prices reflect information" knowledge vs economic knowledge in the Arrow-Debreu general equilibrium sense, which is a hot topic amongst neo-Austrians - a lot of disagreement over what kind of game-theoretic model appropriately captures the Use of Knowledge in Society literary model.
I did not think that you would confuse it for "knowledge" as in "having read the book enough to remember that there is a whole chapter on town planning"
The point of distinction is that Keynes is credited with inventing modern macro and Hayek with modern micro.
Hayek's work on the price system is top notch. Great read, that.
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#1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.
#2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
His theories and observations evolved over the course of his life. There is some difference between The Road to Serfdom and The Fatal Conceit.
Not memorizing every passage of your chosen philosophical deity is forgivable.
Having no response to it at all is confusing.
Town planning needs way more regulation in this country, it's far too mishmash wish is a massive waste of finite resources.
Your last point there is defensible, but local governments are given a measure of autonomy because that's how it has to be. I guess you could propose some legislation at the state level to deal with regional gaps in such planning.
You are not making a very convincing argument here. Your entire arguments appear to be based on your feelings or desires. When discussing things other than feelings and desires, this is not a very strong position to argue from.
Edit: I was also very excited when I read the thread's title, but disappointed when I went inside and found out what the discussion was actually about.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Alright guys were here to discuss things not dogpile the guy on his Hayek knowledge
So what should we discuss instead?
real-world examples of successful 9% tax rates for first world superpowers?
rational explanations for why abortion is a special subject that excludes it from monetary policy discussion?
European nuclear power plant zoning?
I want to know why we cannot assess the value of a fetus, but can assess the value of everything else (objects and social policies) in terms of economics.
Alright guys were here to discuss things not dogpile the guy on his Hayek knowledge
So what should we discuss instead?
real-world examples of successful 9% tax rates for first world superpowers?
rational explanations for why abortion is a special subject that excludes it from monetary policy discussion?
European nuclear power plant zoning?
I want to know why we cannot assess the value of a fetus, but can assess the value of everything else (objects and social policies) in terms of economics.
#1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.
#2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
His theories and observations evolved over the course of his life. There is some difference between The Road to Serfdom and The Fatal Conceit.
oh, now we're getting somewhere! There's early Hayek and later Hayek and they're not very coherent, are they? Early Hayek has a fragile capital theory where investors can be systematically fooled by interest rates into the Great Depression. Later Hayek really loves spontaneous order and coordination. Both translate poorly into formalist microeconomics, which (IMO) has a better treatment of both quasi-Austrian cycle theory (cf Cowen's Risk and Business Cycles) and of spontaneous order and coordination (via game theory). Both also map poorly onto contemporary politics. Later Hayek struggles to describe what the order being spontaneously reached looks like, especially under incremental policy changes rather than grandiose Soviet comparisons (or vaguely fashionable anthropological reasoning, really). That would have been (cough) fatal if presented to audiences traumatized by the Depression and WW2, but works when published in the wake of the Reagan Revolution.
Unfortunately, today the fall of the Keynesian order is two to three decades old, and incremental changes are what is on the table. A contemporary British revolution is a corporate tax rate three percentage points higher, and all that. Hayek won his most important battles, I hope you appreciate? This is the comfortably neoliberal era. This entire discussion with alleged left-wingers in defence of zoning is phrased entirely in terms of externalities, rather than a failure of the market order or whatever. A fish doesn't see the water it swims in.
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While there are several decent discussions going on in here, the problem is that there are several decent discussions going on in here. If the OP would like to discuss, say, zoning regulations, I would recommend creating a thread to discuss that particular topic. Otherwise everything becomes unwieldy.
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#1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.
#2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
did you anticipate never meeting anybody who has actually read Hayek
Having no response to it at all is confusing.
Town planning needs way more regulation in this country, it's far too mishmash wish is a massive waste of finite resources.
Thought it might be useful to collect this all in one post, since it may be relevant later in the discussion.
Intellectual hero: F. A. Hayek
Read all of his works: No
Remembers what he has read of the works: No
This is an Internet forum for a video game webcomic. Not a scholarly forum.
And I like zingers...
Your last point there is defensible, but local governments are given a measure of autonomy because that's how it has to be. I guess you could propose some legislation at the state level to deal with regional gaps in such planning.
PM me with yours if you add me
for example
I did not think that you would confuse it for "knowledge" as in "having read the book enough to remember that there is a whole chapter on town planning"
Hayek is his animal spirit.
Hayek's work on the price system is top notch. Great read, that.
PM me with yours if you add me
You are not making a very convincing argument here. Your entire arguments appear to be based on your feelings or desires. When discussing things other than feelings and desires, this is not a very strong position to argue from.
Edit: I was also very excited when I read the thread's title, but disappointed when I went inside and found out what the discussion was actually about.
This post goes great with your avatar.
My body is ready for you.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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So what should we discuss instead?
real-world examples of successful 9% tax rates for first world superpowers?
rational explanations for why abortion is a special subject that excludes it from monetary policy discussion?
European nuclear power plant zoning?
I want to know why we cannot assess the value of a fetus, but can assess the value of everything else (objects and social policies) in terms of economics.
We can't be sure how that fetus is going to vote.
oh, now we're getting somewhere! There's early Hayek and later Hayek and they're not very coherent, are they? Early Hayek has a fragile capital theory where investors can be systematically fooled by interest rates into the Great Depression. Later Hayek really loves spontaneous order and coordination. Both translate poorly into formalist microeconomics, which (IMO) has a better treatment of both quasi-Austrian cycle theory (cf Cowen's Risk and Business Cycles) and of spontaneous order and coordination (via game theory). Both also map poorly onto contemporary politics. Later Hayek struggles to describe what the order being spontaneously reached looks like, especially under incremental policy changes rather than grandiose Soviet comparisons (or vaguely fashionable anthropological reasoning, really). That would have been (cough) fatal if presented to audiences traumatized by the Depression and WW2, but works when published in the wake of the Reagan Revolution.
Unfortunately, today the fall of the Keynesian order is two to three decades old, and incremental changes are what is on the table. A contemporary British revolution is a corporate tax rate three percentage points higher, and all that. Hayek won his most important battles, I hope you appreciate? This is the comfortably neoliberal era. This entire discussion with alleged left-wingers in defence of zoning is phrased entirely in terms of externalities, rather than a failure of the market order or whatever. A fish doesn't see the water it swims in.
I might be rich one day!!!
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