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Political Philosophy

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  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    it's Hayek's goddamn Constitution of Liberty. nobody asked you to read all of Hayek, but having read his major works seems like a minimal demand

    you are remarkably incurious about your alleged personal intellectual hero
    *Facepalm.* You expect me to remember every passage from that large work?

    Because Hayek had a term for that, "The Pretence of Knowledge."

    http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/1974/hayek-lecture.html

    #1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.

    #2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering

    aRkpc.gif
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    like holy shit has your sole interaction with your "personal intellectual hero" been quotemining it for zingers to apply out of context

    did you anticipate never meeting anybody who has actually read Hayek

    aRkpc.gif
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Not memorizing every passage of your chosen philosophical deity is forgivable.

    Having no response to it at all is confusing.

    Town planning needs way more regulation in this country, it's far too mishmash wish is a massive waste of finite resources.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    My personal intellectual hero is F. A. Hayek, founder of modern microeconomic thought. I like to call myself what he ended up calling himself near the end of his life: fiscal libertarian.
    Never said I agree with everything he's ever written nor have I read all of it.
    *Facepalm.* You expect me to remember every passage from that large work?

    Thought it might be useful to collect this all in one post, since it may be relevant later in the discussion.

    Intellectual hero: F. A. Hayek
    Read all of his works: No
    Remembers what he has read of the works: No

  • BigWillieStylesBigWillieStyles Expert flipper of tables Inside my mind...Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    #1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.

    #2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
    His theories and observations evolved over the course of his life. There is some difference between The Road to Serfdom and The Fatal Conceit.
    ronya wrote: »
    like holy shit has your sole interaction with your "personal intellectual hero" been quotemining it for zingers to apply out of context

    did you anticipate never meeting anybody who has actually read Hayek
    This is an Internet forum for a video game webcomic. Not a scholarly forum.

    And I like zingers...
    Not memorizing every passage of your chosen philosophical deity is forgivable.

    Having no response to it at all is confusing.

    Town planning needs way more regulation in this country, it's far too mishmash wish is a massive waste of finite resources.
    Your last point there is defensible, but local governments are given a measure of autonomy because that's how it has to be. I guess you could propose some legislation at the state level to deal with regional gaps in such planning.

    BigWillieStyles on
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  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    you know when you said that Hayek invented modern micro, I wondered whether I would have to challenge you to distinguish between Hayek's definition of "prices reflect information" knowledge vs economic knowledge in the Arrow-Debreu general equilibrium sense, which is a hot topic amongst neo-Austrians - a lot of disagreement over what kind of game-theoretic model appropriately captures the Use of Knowledge in Society literary model.

    for example

    I did not think that you would confuse it for "knowledge" as in "having read the book enough to remember that there is a whole chapter on town planning"

    aRkpc.gif
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    Hayek isn't his intellectual hero.

    Hayek is his animal spirit.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • BigWillieStylesBigWillieStyles Expert flipper of tables Inside my mind...Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    ronya wrote: »
    you know when you said that Hayek invented modern micro, I wondered whether I would have to challenge you to distinguish between Hayek's definition of "prices reflect information" knowledge vs economic knowledge in the Arrow-Debreu general equilibrium sense, which is a hot topic amongst neo-Austrians - a lot of disagreement over what kind of game-theoretic model appropriately captures the Use of Knowledge in Society literary model.

    for example

    I did not think that you would confuse it for "knowledge" as in "having read the book enough to remember that there is a whole chapter on town planning"
    The point of distinction is that Keynes is credited with inventing modern macro and Hayek with modern micro.

    Hayek's work on the price system is top notch. Great read, that.

    BigWillieStyles on
    3DS Friend Code: 1006 - 0121 - 6969
    PM me with yours if you add me
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    #1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.

    #2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
    His theories and observations evolved over the course of his life. There is some difference between The Road to Serfdom and The Fatal Conceit.
    ronya wrote: »
    like holy shit has your sole interaction with your "personal intellectual hero" been quotemining it for zingers to apply out of context

    did you anticipate never meeting anybody who has actually read Hayek
    This is an Internet forum for a video game webcomic. Not a scholarly forum.

    And I like zingers...
    Not memorizing every passage of your chosen philosophical deity is forgivable.

    Having no response to it at all is confusing.

    Town planning needs way more regulation in this country, it's far too mishmash wish is a massive waste of finite resources.
    Your last point there is defensible, but local governments are given a measure of autonomy because that's how it has to be. I guess you could propose some legislation at the state level to deal with regional gaps in such planning.


    You are not making a very convincing argument here. Your entire arguments appear to be based on your feelings or desires. When discussing things other than feelings and desires, this is not a very strong position to argue from.

    Edit: I was also very excited when I read the thread's title, but disappointed when I went inside and found out what the discussion was actually about.

    Caedwyr on
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Hayek isn't his intellectual hero.

    Hayek is his animal spirit.

    This post goes great with your avatar.

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Alright guys were here to discuss things not dogpile the guy on his Hayek knowledge

  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Philosopher King The AcademyRegistered User regular
    Ronya

    My body is ready for you.

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    I like to think everyone here is talking about Salma Hayek.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    Alright guys were here to discuss things not dogpile the guy on his Hayek knowledge

    So what should we discuss instead?

    real-world examples of successful 9% tax rates for first world superpowers?

    rational explanations for why abortion is a special subject that excludes it from monetary policy discussion?

    European nuclear power plant zoning?

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Alright guys were here to discuss things not dogpile the guy on his Hayek knowledge

    So what should we discuss instead?

    real-world examples of successful 9% tax rates for first world superpowers?

    rational explanations for why abortion is a special subject that excludes it from monetary policy discussion?

    European nuclear power plant zoning?

    I want to know why we cannot assess the value of a fetus, but can assess the value of everything else (objects and social policies) in terms of economics.

  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Alright guys were here to discuss things not dogpile the guy on his Hayek knowledge

    So what should we discuss instead?

    real-world examples of successful 9% tax rates for first world superpowers?

    rational explanations for why abortion is a special subject that excludes it from monetary policy discussion?

    European nuclear power plant zoning?

    I want to know why we cannot assess the value of a fetus, but can assess the value of everything else (objects and social policies) in terms of economics.

    We can't be sure how that fetus is going to vote.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Can we talk about progressive tax systems and about how apparently no voter can wrap their head around the concept?

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    #1 - no, I want you to be aware that Hayek was very much a product of Britain in the 1930s and 1940s, and would have found a regulatory attitude to town planning very much in his favour. His main opponent of the time were socialist or communist-aligned ideological approaches which instead insisted that the specter of uncontrolled neighbourhoods effects - which Hayek did not deny - required instead full nationalization or otherwise thorough central planning.

    #2 - that is not what Hayek means by knowledge or the conceit of having it, which is a point about fine-grained policy engineering
    His theories and observations evolved over the course of his life. There is some difference between The Road to Serfdom and The Fatal Conceit.

    oh, now we're getting somewhere! There's early Hayek and later Hayek and they're not very coherent, are they? Early Hayek has a fragile capital theory where investors can be systematically fooled by interest rates into the Great Depression. Later Hayek really loves spontaneous order and coordination. Both translate poorly into formalist microeconomics, which (IMO) has a better treatment of both quasi-Austrian cycle theory (cf Cowen's Risk and Business Cycles) and of spontaneous order and coordination (via game theory). Both also map poorly onto contemporary politics. Later Hayek struggles to describe what the order being spontaneously reached looks like, especially under incremental policy changes rather than grandiose Soviet comparisons (or vaguely fashionable anthropological reasoning, really). That would have been (cough) fatal if presented to audiences traumatized by the Depression and WW2, but works when published in the wake of the Reagan Revolution.

    Unfortunately, today the fall of the Keynesian order is two to three decades old, and incremental changes are what is on the table. A contemporary British revolution is a corporate tax rate three percentage points higher, and all that. Hayek won his most important battles, I hope you appreciate? This is the comfortably neoliberal era. This entire discussion with alleged left-wingers in defence of zoning is phrased entirely in terms of externalities, rather than a failure of the market order or whatever. A fish doesn't see the water it swims in.

    aRkpc.gif
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Can we talk about progressive tax systems and about how apparently no voter can wrap their head around the concept?

    I might be rich one day!!!

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    While there are several decent discussions going on in here, the problem is that there are several decent discussions going on in here. If the OP would like to discuss, say, zoning regulations, I would recommend creating a thread to discuss that particular topic. Otherwise everything becomes unwieldy.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
This discussion has been closed.