But it presents itself as a hard science fiction story and then utterly fails at science at so many points. Just like... starting from the very premise as has been said already. We could build self-contained sustainable archologies using renewable power and hydroponics and air filtration with present day technology is we really needed to. This whole idea of exploration to escape our problems instead of dealing with them is a good way to just repeat the same mistakes on the next planet rather than some noble en-devour.
The other people one the planet would come and murder you, eat all your food, poison your plants, and doom the species.
I was under the assumption they couldn't build the archology techs because of a lack of available resources (the MRI talk) and the fact that there was a large scale war that destroyed much of the population (he hints at that killing other countries wasn't going to be a long term solution to their food shortages).
The biggest hole for me was how did this guy who's spent 10-20 years not piloting space craft just pick it right back up? Also, why did they have a fucking laptop for docking? Isn't that shit built onto the onboard computers?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
A giant space colony is a thousand times more expensive and difficult even accounting for magic anti-gravity drives.
Which was hinted at with the whole "I still pay my taxes" when he wonders why his son can't go to college ? I think NASA is siphoning pretty much every natural resource and tax dollar they can at this point. That space colony we see is nearly 50 some odd years past when Murphy figures out the gravity equation, that might be catalyst enough to get shit rolling, which was almost 100 years after Coop left Earth.
Doesn't really reconcile with how they said Murphy's generation is the last on Earth, and we see her with great grandchildren at the end. It makes you wonder what exactly this set of equations unlocked for humanity. Were they able to sustain a large population on cooper station by cranking down nitrogen levels and basically suffocate the blight? They have more control on a station, and the rest of Earth might have died off as they left.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
But it presents itself as a hard science fiction story and then utterly fails at science at so many points. Just like... starting from the very premise as has been said already. We could build self-contained sustainable archologies using renewable power and hydroponics and air filtration with present day technology is we really needed to. This whole idea of exploration to escape our problems instead of dealing with them is a good way to just repeat the same mistakes on the next planet rather than some noble en-devour.
The other people one the planet would come and murder you, eat all your food, poison your plants, and doom the species.
Basically:
Culture Novels > Wool Series
if you're worried about other people being dicks; their interfering with the launch of massive amounts of space infrastructure is more risky than them trying to crack your arcology. Especially if you don't tell them about the arcology.
A giant space colony is a thousand times more expensive and difficult even accounting for magic anti-gravity drives.
Which was hinted at with the whole "I still pay my taxes" when he wonders why his son can't go to college ? I think NASA is siphoning pretty much every natural resource and tax dollar they can at this point. That space colony we see is nearly 50 some odd years past when Murphy figures out the gravity equation, that might be catalyst enough to get shit rolling, which was almost 100 years after Coop left Earth.
Doesn't really reconcile with how they said Murphy's generation is the last on Earth, and we see her with great grandchildren at the end. It makes you wonder what exactly this set of equations unlocked for humanity. Were they able to sustain a large population on cooper station by cranking down nitrogen levels and basically suffocate the blight? They have more control on a station, and the rest of Earth might have died off as they left.
The equation gave them some amount of gravity control. So launch the habitat into orbit, build from there. Doesn't explain how they kept things isolated from the blight, though.
Despite the movie saying otherwise, we actually do need nitrogen. Cranking down nitrogen means you have to crank something else up. Oxygen is no go, among other things that makes fires much much worse and at high enough pressures is toxic. Carbon dioxide would be just as bad in different ways. Helium is inert but fucks with things indirectly. Etc.
A giant space colony is a thousand times more expensive and difficult even accounting for magic anti-gravity drives.
Which was hinted at with the whole "I still pay my taxes" when he wonders why his son can't go to college ? I think NASA is siphoning pretty much every natural resource and tax dollar they can at this point. That space colony we see is nearly 50 some odd years past when Murphy figures out the gravity equation, that might be catalyst enough to get shit rolling, which was almost 100 years after Coop left Earth.
Doesn't really reconcile with how they said Murphy's generation is the last on Earth, and we see her with great grandchildren at the end. It makes you wonder what exactly this set of equations unlocked for humanity. Were they able to sustain a large population on cooper station by cranking down nitrogen levels and basically suffocate the blight? They have more control on a station, and the rest of Earth might have died off as they left.
The equation gave them some amount of gravity control. So launch the habitat into orbit, build from there. Doesn't explain how they kept things isolated from the blight, though.
Despite the movie saying otherwise, we actually do need nitrogen. Cranking down nitrogen means you have to crank something else up. Oxygen is no go, among other things that makes fires much much worse and at high enough pressures is toxic. Carbon dioxide would be just as bad in different ways. Helium is inert but fucks with things indirectly. Etc.
Nitrogen is super important for lots of life processes. I thought they had meant "for breathing".
I figure as long as you control the nitrogen levels in the atmosphere it kind of squashes the efficacy of the blight. They mentioned that the nitrogen levels of earth were going up, and the oxygen going down. A sort of similar thing happened in the midwest with the dust bowl, the dryland farming process was kind of ignored for the sake of industrialization and drought coupled with denutrition of the top soil caused it to basically blow away.
Super easy to do in a space station or ecology, not so easy on Earth I guess? Kind of a fun message about our farming and corn though too.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
They said that the blight "breathes nitrogen" so if anything, nitrogen levels were going down. Oxygen was going down because it was killing all the plants, so CO2 should have been going up even with a few billion people no longer respirating.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Did they say it breathes nitrogen? I thought they said it thrives in nitrogen rich environments and in doing so, it's decreasing our oxygen.
Maybe it's not just one thing itself, but maybe two or three types of organisms? Kind of like that Klebsiella planticola bacteria that was almost released into the wild and could've destroyed all the crops in the world, which might create a high Nitrogen atmosphere in which a super nitrogen-fixing bacterium that is especially pathogenic attacks plants.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I think they had access to some untainted crops which could be used for farming in sterile environments.
Supposedly they could do the same on Earth, but I am not sure about the scalability of such a project. A space station is a bit more manageable.
Lol what. Yeah, the situation where if you screw up your air seals you all die from explosive decompresion is more manageable than the one where you lose some crops.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Seems like contamination might be more manageable in space? Everything past your outer wall may as well not exist, so if the blight isn't present at the outset, it ceases to be a concern.
That said, we're arguing about which impossible solution to an imaginary problem is the most realistic, so, I mean...
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Well, reading this thread was a...thing. I saw it a week ago in IMAX (which was amazing, but holy shit pricey). I loved it. Coop and Murphs goodbye was pretty heartbreaking, because I've had to say a similar kind of goodbye to my daughter. All them feels. Also holy shit this soundtrack is amazing.
Lastly on the robots thing. I think one of the first lines was Coop trying to warn Doctor Whatsherface during interrogation that the military models were emotionally unstable/unpredictable. So I got the impression that they were a military surplus thing. It seemed to me at the time a bit of, 'oh shit, gotta watch out for those robots' and I'm so glad that wasn't the case.
Saw the movie on the weekend with my mom, finally caught up on the thread.
Not much to say that hasn't already been debated, so my impression was basically; great visuals, the robots were awesome once they grew on me/got to show off (physically and in their responses), they kind of lost me in the third act.
If it was alien 5th dimensional beings, that kind of makes sense. If the "... it was us!" realization is meant to be true, then it seems like a causality hole. I guess maybe it was 5th dimensional beings and then humanity joins them and it's both.
Whatever. I enjoyed moments, it was a bit too long, I don't regret seeing it but I don't think I'll be getting the DVD.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I think they tried explaining the 5th dimensional being thing with that paper and the wormhole.
To you and me, traveling over 2 dimensions is trivial, we don't think about it, and we can't really interact just with the 2d object. Our perception and existence uses the 3d space. So, for the whole wormhole/blackhole/ with gravity, that required a 5th dimensional being (hinted as humans of the future). Them being 5th dimensional, can't interact with the 3d world in the same we we can't really interact with the 2d one. We use it, we pass through it, but to manipulate the 3d space that our 5th dimension occupies is impossible. So they use what they can, gravity, to create singularities and wormholes (which in this case is explained to be able to manipulate time). They use this manipulation to guide Cooper to transition humans and give them the information they need to save themselves.
So. The time paradox is mostly explained. Think of the blackhole's singularity as a "time wormhole" so to speak. Looping time back in on itself. The only thing you can manipulate is the gravity, nothing else (the rules in this story's universe). 5th dimensional beings apparently can manipulate gravity to the point where time can warp itself with relativity to the point where you can move back and forth, but they themselves, again, can't manipulate it and need Cooper to do it.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
When talking about the causality of it all, I choose to think of it in the terms that Murphy's Law was explained to us in the movie. If it can happen, it will happen.
Humans can become 5th dimensional beings, so at some point they will. Because of this, 5th dimensional humans exist and due to their nature have always existed. In order to ensure their future existence (that has already happened), they make the wormhole and do the black hole stuff to give humanity the gravity equation.
All of it happened because it already happened. It's the same on a smaller scale with what Cooper saw in the black hole tesseract. All those interactions he was doing were being done by him at that moment, but no other outcome was possible because it had also already happened in the past.
It's just a loop that creates and justifies its own existence.
Was it clearly stated 5th dimensional humans? I couldn't clearly remember if it was 5th dimensional beings that are looking out for us, or holy shit you guys its totally us from the future.
I don't think I like it being us but in the future.
Was it clearly stated 5th dimensional humans? I couldn't clearly remember if it was 5th dimensional beings that are looking out for us, or holy shit you guys its totally us from the future.
I don't think I like it being us but in the future.
Cooper states it outright.
That doesn't make him correct. But he most likely is.
5th dimensional beings might even be species-less. Once the dimensional transcendence happens, martians, jovians, and earthlings might all be indistinguishable. So it's "us" so in so much that bacteria is also "us".
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Was it clearly stated 5th dimensional humans? I couldn't clearly remember if it was 5th dimensional beings that are looking out for us, or holy shit you guys its totally us from the future.
I don't think I like it being us but in the future.
Cooper states it outright.
That doesn't make him correct. But he most likely is.
A lot of the stuff characters say turns out to be wrong, like for example, everything Michael Caine said turned out to be wrong.
The movie kind of wants you to figure some things out for yourself.
Well, reading this thread was a...thing. I saw it a week ago in IMAX (which was amazing, but holy shit pricey). I loved it. Coop and Murphs goodbye was pretty heartbreaking, because I've had to say a similar kind of goodbye to my daughter. All them feels.
Wait, so you're currently flying to another star system to save humanity from extinction?
(I will understand if it takes a couple years for me to get your response. No worries, bro. )
(P.S.- DO NOT TRUST MATT DAMON EVEN THOUGH HE SEEMS SO PRETTY AND NICE)
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Well, reading this thread was a...thing. I saw it a week ago in IMAX (which was amazing, but holy shit pricey). I loved it. Coop and Murphs goodbye was pretty heartbreaking, because I've had to say a similar kind of goodbye to my daughter. All them feels.
Wait, so you're currently flying to another star system to save humanity from extinction?
(I will understand if it takes a couple years for me to get your response. No worries, bro. )
(P.S.- DO NOT TRUST MATT DAMON EVEN THOUGH HE SEEMS SO PRETTY AND NICE)
Well, reading this thread was a...thing. I saw it a week ago in IMAX (which was amazing, but holy shit pricey). I loved it. Coop and Murphs goodbye was pretty heartbreaking, because I've had to say a similar kind of goodbye to my daughter. All them feels.
Wait, so you're currently flying to another star system to save humanity from extinction?
(I will understand if it takes a couple years for me to get your response. No worries, bro. )
(P.S.- DO NOT TRUST MATT DAMON EVEN THOUGH HE SEEMS SO PRETTY AND NICE)
Nah, its cool. Aliens/BabyJesus/Us from the future sent me back like right after I left.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
A giant space colony is a thousand times more expensive and difficult even accounting for magic anti-gravity drives.
Which was hinted at with the whole "I still pay my taxes" when he wonders why his son can't go to college ? I think NASA is siphoning pretty much every natural resource and tax dollar they can at this point. That space colony we see is nearly 50 some odd years past when Murphy figures out the gravity equation, that might be catalyst enough to get shit rolling, which was almost 100 years after Coop left Earth.
Doesn't really reconcile with how they said Murphy's generation is the last on Earth, and we see her with great grandchildren at the end. It makes you wonder what exactly this set of equations unlocked for humanity. Were they able to sustain a large population on cooper station by cranking down nitrogen levels and basically suffocate the blight? They have more control on a station, and the rest of Earth might have died off as they left.
The only question I had at the end of the movie was What happened to earth? did they leave it? did they bother to fix it? what happened?
Did anyone else find the whole 'the Moon landing was propaganda' thing depressing?
I actually found it fairly believable that it wouldn't take long for people to start believing the new 'official' story.
(Do they ever give the movie a year? How long had they been pushing the 'adjusted' history?)
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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Dr Brand the elder mentioned that Coop had been born "40 years too early or 40 years too late", which to me suggests that the Apollo program is still in living memory of some people on Earth.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Dr Brand the elder mentioned that Coop had been born "40 years too early or 40 years too late", which to me suggests that the Apollo program is still in living memory of some people on Earth.
I thought it was his father in law who had told him that.
Did anyone else find the whole 'the Moon landing was propaganda' thing depressing?
I actually found it fairly believable that it wouldn't take long for people to start believing the new 'official' story.
(Do they ever give the movie a year? How long had they been pushing the 'adjusted' history?)
A bit of irony too, when you consider that they are using propaganda to push away old propaganda and the teacher isn't smart enough to understand because she believes in the message they're pushing.
Keep people calm, don't start a panic, it's not going to help.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I think they just left it. The whole premise of the movie was there was no way to "fix" the earth anymore, the only chance for survival was to leave.
Yeah. I mean Earth will be okay in the long run until the sun dies or a mass extinction actually destroys life (really hard to do). It just can't support human life (billions of large mammals) anymore. If anything leaving and coming back in a few centuries would probably be good enough. Just chill out in orbit around Miller's planet for 24 hours and you're good to go.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I say, detonate all nukes, sterilize the earth and come back when the radiation levels drop to acceptable levels with a lot of soil bacteria culture and rebuild the Eco system.
Chances of giant roaches or a Cthulhu are minimal.
Posts
The other people one the planet would come and murder you, eat all your food, poison your plants, and doom the species.
Basically:
Culture Novels > Wool Series
The biggest hole for me was how did this guy who's spent 10-20 years not piloting space craft just pick it right back up? Also, why did they have a fucking laptop for docking? Isn't that shit built onto the onboard computers?
Which was hinted at with the whole "I still pay my taxes" when he wonders why his son can't go to college ? I think NASA is siphoning pretty much every natural resource and tax dollar they can at this point. That space colony we see is nearly 50 some odd years past when Murphy figures out the gravity equation, that might be catalyst enough to get shit rolling, which was almost 100 years after Coop left Earth.
Doesn't really reconcile with how they said Murphy's generation is the last on Earth, and we see her with great grandchildren at the end. It makes you wonder what exactly this set of equations unlocked for humanity. Were they able to sustain a large population on cooper station by cranking down nitrogen levels and basically suffocate the blight? They have more control on a station, and the rest of Earth might have died off as they left.
if you're worried about other people being dicks; their interfering with the launch of massive amounts of space infrastructure is more risky than them trying to crack your arcology. Especially if you don't tell them about the arcology.
The equation gave them some amount of gravity control. So launch the habitat into orbit, build from there. Doesn't explain how they kept things isolated from the blight, though.
Despite the movie saying otherwise, we actually do need nitrogen. Cranking down nitrogen means you have to crank something else up. Oxygen is no go, among other things that makes fires much much worse and at high enough pressures is toxic. Carbon dioxide would be just as bad in different ways. Helium is inert but fucks with things indirectly. Etc.
Supposedly they could do the same on Earth, but I am not sure about the scalability of such a project. A space station is a bit more manageable.
Nitrogen is super important for lots of life processes. I thought they had meant "for breathing".
I figure as long as you control the nitrogen levels in the atmosphere it kind of squashes the efficacy of the blight. They mentioned that the nitrogen levels of earth were going up, and the oxygen going down. A sort of similar thing happened in the midwest with the dust bowl, the dryland farming process was kind of ignored for the sake of industrialization and drought coupled with denutrition of the top soil caused it to basically blow away.
Super easy to do in a space station or ecology, not so easy on Earth I guess? Kind of a fun message about our farming and corn though too.
Maybe it's not just one thing itself, but maybe two or three types of organisms? Kind of like that Klebsiella planticola bacteria that was almost released into the wild and could've destroyed all the crops in the world, which might create a high Nitrogen atmosphere in which a super nitrogen-fixing bacterium that is especially pathogenic attacks plants.
It's probably some extremely hardy bacteria or fungus that uses atmospheric nitrogen in its metabolism somehow.
Lol what. Yeah, the situation where if you screw up your air seals you all die from explosive decompresion is more manageable than the one where you lose some crops.
That said, we're arguing about which impossible solution to an imaginary problem is the most realistic, so, I mean...
There were crops growing inside the space stations because it looks better than bare ass walls/ground
The farm was a museum. The dirt was raked. The corn outside could've been plastic for all we know.
Lastly on the robots thing. I think one of the first lines was Coop trying to warn Doctor Whatsherface during interrogation that the military models were emotionally unstable/unpredictable. So I got the impression that they were a military surplus thing. It seemed to me at the time a bit of, 'oh shit, gotta watch out for those robots' and I'm so glad that wasn't the case.
Not much to say that hasn't already been debated, so my impression was basically; great visuals, the robots were awesome once they grew on me/got to show off (physically and in their responses), they kind of lost me in the third act.
If it was alien 5th dimensional beings, that kind of makes sense. If the "... it was us!" realization is meant to be true, then it seems like a causality hole. I guess maybe it was 5th dimensional beings and then humanity joins them and it's both.
Whatever. I enjoyed moments, it was a bit too long, I don't regret seeing it but I don't think I'll be getting the DVD.
To you and me, traveling over 2 dimensions is trivial, we don't think about it, and we can't really interact just with the 2d object. Our perception and existence uses the 3d space. So, for the whole wormhole/blackhole/ with gravity, that required a 5th dimensional being (hinted as humans of the future). Them being 5th dimensional, can't interact with the 3d world in the same we we can't really interact with the 2d one. We use it, we pass through it, but to manipulate the 3d space that our 5th dimension occupies is impossible. So they use what they can, gravity, to create singularities and wormholes (which in this case is explained to be able to manipulate time). They use this manipulation to guide Cooper to transition humans and give them the information they need to save themselves.
So. The time paradox is mostly explained. Think of the blackhole's singularity as a "time wormhole" so to speak. Looping time back in on itself. The only thing you can manipulate is the gravity, nothing else (the rules in this story's universe). 5th dimensional beings apparently can manipulate gravity to the point where time can warp itself with relativity to the point where you can move back and forth, but they themselves, again, can't manipulate it and need Cooper to do it.
Humans can become 5th dimensional beings, so at some point they will. Because of this, 5th dimensional humans exist and due to their nature have always existed. In order to ensure their future existence (that has already happened), they make the wormhole and do the black hole stuff to give humanity the gravity equation.
All of it happened because it already happened. It's the same on a smaller scale with what Cooper saw in the black hole tesseract. All those interactions he was doing were being done by him at that moment, but no other outcome was possible because it had also already happened in the past.
It's just a loop that creates and justifies its own existence.
I don't think I like it being us but in the future.
Cooper states it outright.
That doesn't make him correct. But he most likely is.
Like even Brand's "first handshake" turned out to be with Cooper.
A lot of the stuff characters say turns out to be wrong, like for example, everything Michael Caine said turned out to be wrong.
The movie kind of wants you to figure some things out for yourself.
It's a ghost : It was actually Cooper time traveling :: It's aliens : It was actually humanity ascended to 5th dimensional beings.
Wait, so you're currently flying to another star system to save humanity from extinction?
(I will understand if it takes a couple years for me to get your response. No worries, bro. )
(P.S.- DO NOT TRUST MATT DAMON EVEN THOUGH HE SEEMS SO PRETTY AND NICE)
Spoken like a man who's never seen Euro Trip.
Nah, its cool. Aliens/BabyJesus/Us from the future sent me back like right after I left.
I meant like when I had to deploy. :P
This is true.
Just don't trust him around your girlfriend.
Actually, that might go for all the Matt Damons.
:whistle: Cooper doesn't know... :whistle:
The only question I had at the end of the movie was What happened to earth? did they leave it? did they bother to fix it? what happened?
PSN: jrrl_absent
I actually found it fairly believable that it wouldn't take long for people to start believing the new 'official' story.
(Do they ever give the movie a year? How long had they been pushing the 'adjusted' history?)
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I thought it was his father in law who had told him that.
A bit of irony too, when you consider that they are using propaganda to push away old propaganda and the teacher isn't smart enough to understand because she believes in the message they're pushing.
Keep people calm, don't start a panic, it's not going to help.
Yeah. I mean Earth will be okay in the long run until the sun dies or a mass extinction actually destroys life (really hard to do). It just can't support human life (billions of large mammals) anymore. If anything leaving and coming back in a few centuries would probably be good enough. Just chill out in orbit around Miller's planet for 24 hours and you're good to go.
Chances of giant roaches or a Cthulhu are minimal.