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Far Cry New Dawn - The MOST realistic premise ever

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Posts

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Honestly the writing in far cry 3+ seems to keep wanting to make the argument "you the player are the real bad guy" while having literal awful monsters as bad guys. Like ok sure I'm a sociopathic murderer, but I'm taking on warlords, genocidal dictators and whatever the fuck the real bad guy is in far cry 5 (society? I have no idea neither do they).

    It's kind of like that annoying guy at a college party "bro man bro I was thinking, what if man is the real monster? What if bro what if?" And then they throw in Hurk missions because fuck you everyone loves hurk? No, no one loves Hurk.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    The most mindblowing thing about FC5 is, that it feels sincere.
    It's not just a shit post in game form, they are not just trolling.
    It feels like they genuinely want you to think that opposing the fucking murder cult, was a wrong thing to do.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    The most mindblowing thing about FC5 is, that it feels sincere.
    It's not just a shit post in game form, they are not just trolling.
    It feels like they genuinely want you to think that opposing the fucking murder cult, was a wrong thing to do.

    That's because Dan Hay has been sipping his own Kool-Aid.

    (FC5 spoilers of course)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzx3JGB0QPU

  • Ken OKen O Registered User regular
    Ken O wrote: »
    It lets me keep spending perk points to carry more shovels. I'm up to 4, I don't know how many more it will let me get but I'm going to keep adding until it stops letting me.

    Update, I had to spend some perks on other things, but I'm now up to capable of carrying 6 murder shovels.

    http://www.fingmonkey.com/
    Comics, Games, Booze
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Far Cry 5 does not secretly support the murderdeathcult. They are comically evil, to the point that most of their lairs are literally littered with the corpses of their tortured victims like they were literal orcs.

    The problem is that Far Cry has a formula. That formula is 1) Conflict is introduced in a way that makes it seem like a black and white fight between good and evil 2) There is a late-game twist to make you realize that the faction you support are also villains (and you have probably been driven a bit crazy/evil yourself while helping them) 3) An endgame that reinforces that this whole experience has been a lesson in the inherent evil of those seeking power and uselessness of participating in endless cycles of violence.

    The setup in Far Cry V is just so sloppy - the local residents are broad caricatures and the villainous group (fictional but suggestive of real world groups, as usual) ends up whitewashing the reasons why Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming have gotten a reputation for harboring cults and militias - that even a rote execution of the formula lands badly. It's trying to say "Think Globally, not Locally!" and ends up saying, "Maybe the fundamentalist psychopaths have a point."

    If I looked at my total gaming hours, Ubisoft is probably my most-played publisher. This is far from the first time that their studio-wide adherence to putting out a "positive" message without actually offending anyone or naming any names (except the government of Bolivia, for some reason) has ended up with an unintended, but still very much there, message.

  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    No, it quite openly supports the muderdeadthcult at the end.
    The game actually punishes you for opposing them.
    Leave at the start, nothing bad happens to you.
    Leave at the end, you end up killing your allies.
    Keep fighting, you get locked in a bunker with the drug jesus.
    The ending comes out of nowhere to show that, whoopsie, crazy doomsday cult was right.

    As for the formula.
    Game starts with the black and white setup, but completely ignores the rest until the last second twist.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Presumably, at the end
    the nukes still fall, even if you leave.

  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Presumably, at the end
    the nukes still fall, even if you leave.
    Maybe, maybe not.
    What is important is what actually happens and is shown in game.

  • SteevSteev What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    This discussion reminded me just now of a Far Cry-related tweet I saw a few days ago:

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    From what I've read of spoilers uhh it double down on it.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    From what I've read of spoilers uhh it double down on it.
    *takes index and thumb and rubs forehead in frustration*


    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • SteevSteev What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    Here's the article about the FC5 protagonist I mentioned earlier.

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    SteevL wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    Here's the article about the FC5 protagonist I mentioned earlier.
    I read spoilers on Far Cry 5 so actually trying to stay clean this time for New Dawn.

    God help me.

    Dr. Chaos on
    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    Here's the article about the FC5 protagonist I mentioned earlier.

    Good lord.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    I would like to say i am surprised, but i would be lying.
    I am not buying this garbage.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I said double down earlier, but this is beyond that, this is actively spitting in the face of the player as a fuck you. Like wow.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Joseph Seed was right, and you were wrong to oppose his murdercult.
    All hail the Father.
    /pukes

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Let a tiger loose from its cage in 4 from sniper distance and the damn thing ran past three enemies and went up the long path just to get ahold of me.

    You ungrateful little shit.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Let a tiger loose from its cage in 4 from sniper distance and the damn thing ran past three enemies and went up the long path just to get ahold of me.

    You ungrateful little shit.

    Happened to me all the time in 3. Its why I left them in their cages. I know why the caged tiger howls because fuck you you ungrateful murder machine.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Also dear god the last mission in far cry 5 just blows from a gameplay perspective too. It's not fun, feels bad and is basic and boring, utilising nothing about what makes the sandbox gameplay fun. It's unsatisfying and messy on all levels.

    And what's worse is it has been done so many times before, in the same game and in previous games it the series.

    Prohass on
  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    New Dawn looks like it could be fun.
    But i am still so disgusted about FC5 that i am not buying another Far Cry game, not now, maybe not ever.
    What? Far Cry 3 fully embracing a white savior plotline and then somehow completely dodging the issues surrounding white supremacy in rural America in 5 makes you feel weird and uncomfortable?

    I can't imagine why.

    I mean at least FC3 did something interesting with that concept. They made it clear that the "white savior" was not actually a traditional hero and just a lunatic murder machine who really really liked to kill people and used the heroics as a thin guise to allow himself to do some more killing.

    Far Cry 5 has one of the most aggressive "f--- you player, you didn't win" endings I've seen in a while.

    Directed by Woolie Madden

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    I will be waiting until this one drops in price. I just bought 4 on sale and I still have a few hours of 3 to finish. So I'm GOOD on FC for the moment.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    Here's the article about the FC5 protagonist I mentioned earlier.

    Good lord.
    Yeah, I don't necessarily take total exception with FC5's ending, but yeah, that is terrible

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    In reference to the spoiler article above.
    Wow. That's... so god damn awful. I defended a lot of parts of 5 too. And that makes it so much worse and definitely makes some of those positions slightly less defendable. Damn.

  • Absurdity MatrixAbsurdity Matrix Tumbledown Glory On the OutskirtsRegistered User regular
    Far Cry 3, 4, and 5 are games with incoherent themes.
    On one hand, each story is one in which only the player is looked upon make a change, and the core gameplay is one of becoming more powerful and overcoming the game world. On the other hand, each game wants to subvert the player's typical hero fantasy and so, each time, it takes away the player's ability to accomplish much of anything positive for plot reasons. The end result is messy, lazy, and confusing.

    In Far Cry 3, the main character sets out to save his friends. By the end, he's been indoctrinated into a cult as a figurehead and has largely become a monster.

    In Far Cry 4, the main character sets out to scatter his mother's ashes and instead becomes the figurehead of a revolution. By the end, either of the player's only two options puts a terrible person in charge, leaving the cycle of oppression and revolution to repeat. The little girl figurehead of the nation can be asked what to do, but she refuses to makes a choice. The only way get a good ending is to do nothing. (Or, well, kill them both? Then I guess you're in charge.)

    In Far Cry 5, the main character sets out to arrest a cult leader, but then has to reclaim Hope County from the cult. By the end, you instead get to see Hope County destroyed, and at no point do you successfully take the leader into custody. Oh, and the main character gets indoctrinated into a cult via torture, drugs, and brainwashing. The main villain lectures you about only solving problems with a bullet, but, at the two times the player is given the option to just arrest someone, as a deputy might, the situation then becomes worse by orders of magnitude.

    That all said and storytelling frustrations aside, I have had a really good time playing each of these. I find the gameplay fun, online co-op is a venue to share this head-scratching experience with a friend, and the games have served up some pretty fun and ridiculous moments. I've sure gotten my use out of the Playstation's "share" button.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Far Cry 3 is really consistent with its themes, and Jason's descend into madness is treated with sympathy.

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Far Cry 3 is really consistent with its themes, and Jason's descend into madness is treated with sympathy.
    Yeah, I know there are issues with the writing in Far Cry 3 but I appreciated that Jason was an actual character.

    Ajay in 4 just feels kind of like he's just there to see shit go down most of the time and give basic responses.

    Dr. Chaos on
    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Far Cry 3 is really consistent with its themes, and Jason's descend into madness is treated with sympathy.
    Yeah, I know there are issues with the writing in Far Cry 3 but I appreciated that Jason was an actual character.

    Ajay in 4 just feels kind of like he's just there to see shit go down most of the time and give basic responses.

    Yeah Ajay is a blank slate of nothing.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Absurdity MatrixAbsurdity Matrix Tumbledown Glory On the OutskirtsRegistered User regular
    Far Cry 3 is really consistent with its themes, and Jason's descend into madness is treated with sympathy.

    Hm. I suppose that’s fair. There are a few odd things that happen or discomfiting jumps that, to this day, I cannot tell if they are by gameplay convenience or if they are intended to emphasize the Wonderland, “What IS reality?”, themes. While I would never want to hang out with Jason and his friends, I never personally felt the antipathy some others did for them. They’re spoiled So-Cal youths who abruptly received a reality clue-by-four to the face, but not really “bad” per se.

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Yeah, I think incoherent and confused are more how I feel about them. Ultimately it feels kind of nihilist to me, which I don't love. But the gameplay is fun and that last mission in 5
    while you're racing to the bunker as the bombs drop

    is a set piece I found gripping and never played anywhere else. Wow do I not love what happens to the deputy though. I do appreciate a game that doesn't let you "win". At least as a break from "chosen one saves everything" from other titles.

    But I don't think I love the director's outlook on the world much, no. Even though I agree violence probably does beget violence and I would be greatly interested in more commentaries on the extreme violence of a lot of gaming spaces, I'm not sure they really pull off truly insightful commentary in any of these titles so far.

    soylenth on
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    It wants so hard to be Spec Ops: The Line. And it's not.

  • RonTheDMRonTheDM Yes, yes Registered User regular
    In Far Cry 5 there's really dumb plot armor, too
    During the last mission when you're driving away with the father if you try to shoot him you explode instantly and are forced to retry

  • ZundeZunde Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Does it feel like New Dawn tried to address any of the stupid in 5 at all?

    Here's the article about the FC5 protagonist I mentioned earlier.

    I don't like this.

    I'm not buying this now.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    It wants so hard to be Spec Ops: The Line. And it's not.
    Yeah, I can see that on one level they want to tell a story that looks at the fact that you're killing hundreds of people, and what kind of person you'd have to be to even do that.
    A world that's both okay with and actually encourages one man to kill hundreds of others is pretty fucked up, and most games deal with that by ignoring it entirely.
    But the way Ubi do it here just makes me feel like they encourage me to kill hundreds of people for 95% of the game, then turn around and tell me off for playing the game in the first place. Why did you do all these things we told you to do? You monster.
    I've finally taken that lesson to heart, so I just don't play them.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Mr.SunshineMr.Sunshine Registered User regular
    Best way to enjoy Farcry now is to not play them. They may have failed at trying to be Spec Ops: The Line but they totally nailed WarGames. I'm totally cool knowing that I've already beaten Farcry 6.
    Except Blood Dragon. Everyone should play the fuck out of Blood Dragon.

  • BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    I don't understand why anyone let the FC5 main character anywhere near them.
    Oh, you were captured by the guy who indoctrinates all the psychos? And you had visions that ended in killing me, and you didn't resist? And you just "got away," huh? Twice? And the trigger's a really common old song (really, just a three-note progression) that you don't want to tell us about, even though one of our guys is having you collect old doowop records so he can broadcast them?
    Cool, come on in.

    Well, you killed the guy who let you in, but you also killed the guy who was brainwashing you, so it'll never happen again, right? Oh, did you get kidnapped by the drug sorceress who turns everyone she exposes into mindless berserkers, then exposed you to that same drug? Well, you seem okay now, welcome welcome. Oh, did she get you again? Make sure you bring that other drug-addled guy back to us, too. Oh, did that guy kill one of our leaders and then himself? Dang. Well, you're still welcome here anytime. In fact, you'd better march right into the Bliss production facility and then come on back whenever you want; I'm sure you're fine.

    Jesus, the Rook is a death sentence to everyone around them.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    So, let's talk a moment of the end of the mountain mission.
    So, he forces us to go through the gauntlet when high on drugs.
    Like, 3 times or so? Hardly enough to brainwash anyone imo, but fine, the game is idiotic, so we'll let that slide, they got magic flowers.
    I keep trying to do it without killing anyone, but keep getting shot at the wide open area before bunker.
    So i have to shoot the other idiots there to get to the end.
    Then i stop, go get some tea, and the bloody idiot still just keeps talking instead of, i dunno, restraining the drugged up idiot with a gun who just stands there, for several minutes.

  • Absurdity MatrixAbsurdity Matrix Tumbledown Glory On the OutskirtsRegistered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Even though I agree violence probably does beget violence and I would be greatly interested in more commentaries on the extreme violence of a lot of gaming spaces, I'm not sure they really pull off truly insightful commentary in any of these titles so far.

    That.

    And describing the games' feeling as "nihilistic" is a good point. That just seems to be a natural product of punishing (for lack of a better word) without enabling any alternative. It's a little baffling how much they seem to want to say something on the subject versus their ineptitude at actually communicating it.

    What could they do differently? I have ideas, but they're behind a spoiler tag for anyone who wants to skip them:
    • Embrace the ridiculousness fully, but add some good, human, grounding moment as a reality check. Don't stick it at the climax; make it something like an optional or even hidden side quest.
    • Give the option to build up something in the world or to enable the NPCs in some way, but make that choice matter.
    • If part of Far Cry is about exploring an isolated and over-the-top environment, how about progression and gameplay centered around increasing access to areas (parkour, SCUBA, lock-picking, disguise) and discovering vantage points and hidden locations. I mean, Beyond Good & Evil featured the cool superpower of gathering photographic evidence.

    Hell, Ubisoft, make a game where the main character is an extreme tours guide at a scenic vacation spot who then has to uncover a sinister, daiquiri-flavored conspiracy. Leveling-up involves growing a community of small businesses, setting-up new exciting vacation excursions, and unlocking bold new floral patterns for your shirts.

    Huh. I started out being silly with that, but now I kinda want that game?

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    soylenth wrote: »
    Even though I agree violence probably does beget violence and I would be greatly interested in more commentaries on the extreme violence of a lot of gaming spaces, I'm not sure they really pull off truly insightful commentary in any of these titles so far.

    That.

    And describing the games' feeling as "nihilistic" is a good point. That just seems to be a natural product of punishing (for lack of a better word) without enabling any alternative. It's a little baffling how much they seem to want to say something on the subject versus their ineptitude at actually communicating it.

    What could they do differently? I have ideas, but they're behind a spoiler tag for anyone who wants to skip them:
    • Embrace the ridiculousness fully, but add some good, human, grounding moment as a reality check. Don't stick it at the climax; make it something like an optional or even hidden side quest.
    • Give the option to build up something in the world or to enable the NPCs in some way, but make that choice matter.
    • If part of Far Cry is about exploring an isolated and over-the-top environment, how about progression and gameplay centered around increasing access to areas (parkour, SCUBA, lock-picking, disguise) and discovering vantage points and hidden locations. I mean, Beyond Good & Evil featured the cool superpower of gathering photographic evidence.

    Hell, Ubisoft, make a game where the main character is an extreme tours guide at a scenic vacation spot who then has to uncover a sinister, daiquiri-flavored conspiracy. Leveling-up involves growing a community of small businesses, setting-up new exciting vacation excursions, and unlocking bold new floral patterns for your shirts.

    Huh. I started out being silly with that, but now I kinda want that game?

    It's true, more things DO need to be Metroidvanias

    SyphonBlue on
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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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