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Help identifying a bolt head
LaPuzza
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I have just bought an older house, and some previous owner ran bolts through the double-hung windows as a security measure. It turns out that the bolt type is something I've never seen and can't remove.
Its about a 3/8ths size head. It looks like a standard six-sided bolt head, except with only one flat side. The rest is round.
Any idea what that's called? I can't even find it to find a tool/head/adapter to remove it.
Its about a 3/8ths size head. It looks like a standard six-sided bolt head, except with only one flat side. The rest is round.
Any idea what that's called? I can't even find it to find a tool/head/adapter to remove it.
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There are a number of specialized wrenches for things where you can't put full bolt heads on them. Most of them that I have run into are application specific though.
Post a picture!
The device you linked is awful, as all sockets of that 'type' invariably are. The OP might have some success with one of these, but I'd personally be wary of that, too.
It sounds like some sort of secure/anti-tamper fastener, but I'm not seeing anything like what the OP describes on supplier pages like this: http://www.losspreventionfasteners.com/
This is from a Ford hydraulic brake drum hub if it helps. I tried to just search for similar pictures to no avail.
Well yeah, there is a reason you don't use them if you don't have to. I don't know about that Bionic wrench thing, the even way they all seem to go in leaves me thinking you're gonna just be trying to turn and grip only on the round portion. Does it somehow let that last one go forward further if it isn't met by a wall?
If you're willing to fuck them up maybe just grab a pair of vise grips at that point. That won't work very well on the image just above because of the top chamfer though.
Stupid question time: What's the bolt threading into to retain it? The window frame or something else? Not a nut that you could get to, right?
That is exactly it! I still don't know how to get it out, as it is recessed into the window.
Wish the thing had a name, but awesome find. Thanks
You could cut the other side off so both sides would be flat so you have something you could lock onto.
1: Use an Oscillating Tool or a Dremel to file off part of the round end so that you have two 'flat' ends - then, you might get enough surface area to grab it with a good pair of vise grips or pliers and twist it out. Unlikely however. And if you try with a cold chisel or anything like that, you'll just mangle the head beyond any point.
2: Drill it out. This will require a center punch, some lubricant, and a titanium coated or cobalt drill bit. You might get away with a high speed steel drill bit, but you'll probably ruin it in the process of drilling it out, as those bolts are usually Grade 8 Steel, which is hard enough to wear out normal HSS bits. You'll use the center tap to create a divet to begin drilling. (Note, hit the center tap with a non-metal device, like a rubber mallet. Never use a steel hammer on punches). You'll be running your drill at about 800 rpm. Look up the speed range of your drill, whether it is a 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 drive. Typical consumer drills cap out in the 1500-3000 RPM range, which means you'll have to 'feather' the trigger slightly to run the drill at a slower speed. (Run it too fast and you'll destroy your bit). Use liberal amounts of the lubricant - you don't want your drill bit heating up so much that the tip softens. You'll need to apply a decent amount of force to the drill, but be careful, as the drill bit can 'bow' if you press too hard, in which case the vibrations of the drill will cause the bit to snap right in two. You'll want a bit that is somewhere between half to two-thirds of the diameter of the bolt. As you're drilling down the 'center' of the bolt. If your bit is too large, chunks of the bolt will break off, get caught in the fluting of your drill bit, and destroy the bit, if not lodge it in the bolt itself. Once you have drilled the hole, you are going to use a punch again (flat head), and beat the ever living shit it out of the bolt. Because it has a nice hole drilled down the center, it *should* crack relatively easily at this point, and now you'll be able to pull out the broken chunks.
Cut a groove through the middle of the head. Then use a broad-faced screwdriver to unscrew it.
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You're doing that the hard way. Just use a drill bit one size bigger than the bolt shank, and drill the head right off. Also, the striking end of a center punch shouldn't be hardened, just the point. The drill speed will also be dependent on the diameter of the drill.
Eh, you really don't want to use a bit larger than the head, because then you're putting all the cutting pressure on the tip, and none of it on the fluting. Not to mention, using a drill bit larger than the diameter of the bolt assumes that he is completely willing to sacrifice the fastener hole. Using a smaller drill bit provides for the ability to reuse the fastener hole in the future without changing thread pitch.
Yes, the drill speed does depend on diameter (FR * 4 / Diameter), but we're talking about consumer hand drills and what is almost certainly 3/16-5/16 drill bit. This provides for a speed range of 640-1066 RPM. A difference in 100-200 RPM from optimum is going to be the last thing that causes excess wear when you're using a non-stabilized power drill.
RE: The Punch. It's not the punch that's the problem, it's the hammer. Most people will take their regular claw hammer to a punch. This is an exceptionally bad idea. Claw Hammers and Ball Peen hammers are made from different types of steel. The claw hammer that most homeowners posses will chip when struck against another metal tool often enough. This is a safety hazard. For those that own a ball peen hammer and know the difference, it is perfectly ok to use a ball peen hammer on punches (Ball Peens are made for shaping and striking metal). In general most people I run into don't know the difference, so I always recommend a deadblow hammer or wooden mallet to provide the highest amount of safety.
Carpentry hammers and ball-pein hammers are made from the same type of steel, and hardened in the same way. The difference between them is the the faces of the striking heads are different shapes. The carpentry hammer has a striking head with a flat face, to ensure that you drive nails straight in. A ball-pein hammer has a striking head with a slightly rounded face (yes, even on the pein side), because that is the shape that you need to work sheetmetal properly. Try hammering some long nails into some hardwood with a ball-pein hammer some time, and see what I mean. The problem with using hardened hammerhead striking faces on hardened tools is that the hardened faces are proportionally brittle because of the hardening process, and prone to chipping when struck against anther piece of hardened steel. Cheap center punches are hardened everywhere, because after the blanks are forged and machined, they heat treat them by dumping them in baskets that are then submerged wholesale into a quenching bath, as opposed to a proper, higher quality punch that is heat treated by setting it in a rack that only dips the tips of the punches in the quenching bath.
Besides all this, I hoe the OP is enjoying great success with their project.
I've been looking for an excuse to buy a Dremel, and I like this solution. I think that's where I'd go with it. I've got my Dremel on the way.
I'll be sure to post pictures mid-failure to keep everyone posted (I hadn't noticed how much easier image posting is now than it was 10 years ago).
Thanks everyone for the help! I understand the punch-and-drill out option, but I'm worried about that one. It's a rounded top on the bolt, so I'll need a good hole to start. That's more pounding than the glass might take.
If you don't have them already, be sure to get a pair of safety goggles when you pick up your Dremel. It's better to have them and not need them...
Which is why my point regarding steel on steel tools still stands. Never assume the quality of tools someone is using. Always assume the safest process.
listen to this guy. you never know when something will break off and go flying. don't fuck with your eyesight
hitting hot metal with hammers
Not just that, if you ever do grinding/cutting on metal without eye protection, bits could lodge in your eyes aqueous membrane, then if you ever have an MRI, they're removed - forcibly.
Pictures to follow.
The reason for this is that if you get the gloves caught in anything a power tool will pull the glove in and chew it up along with anything inside. Its better to get a hundred minor scratches and burns than to lose a finger/hand. I'm not sure if a dremel has the torque to do quite that much damage, but it could definitely pull your finger onto the cutting wheel.
I think this is probably good advice but pretty tool specific. If you're grinding keys or something, you can get more than just some cuts or burns, metal slivers fucking suck. If you're using something without a safety mechanism though I could certainly see this not being an awful idea, like say with a disc sander or lathe that lacks an automatic kill switch. I think in this case I'd absolutely wear gloves that fit well and some safety goggles that fit snug to the cheeks, a shield isn't a bad idea too if you don't know what material the bolt is. Having hot slivers of metal hit exposed skin is kind of unpleasant.
I will concede my knowledge on this subject is based around fixing stuff once in a while and low end residential tools. I bet the game changes significantly when you start cutting concrete or rebar.
Just keep your hands away from the dangerous part of the tool, same as you would anyway.
It tends to be a good policy to keep all body parts away from the dangerous part of the tool. I don't know why you'd be sticking your man parts near the cutting bit but I'm sure someone somewhere has tried it.
I think we're gonna diverge a bit but then I don't know what you consider a "power tool". You aren't gonna get me to wear gloves while running a lathe and pretty much every toolmaker I know would think you're asking for trouble by doing it. The injuries the gloves will stop are minor while the injuries the gloves could cause will result in lost fingers/hands.
You might talk me into it with hand held power tools.
This sounds like when a mechanic tells you your muffler bearings are loose, or that your valve seats need re-upholstering....
I wasn't really trying to tell the OP not to wear them under any circumstances as I probably would if the situation demanded it, just to be aware that it's not always a clear cut case of gloves=safer and to think before putting them on.
Swarf is completely the right term. It is one of my favorite technical terms. It is just fun to say! Sadly most of the guys I work with just say boring shit like chips.
What was running around my head was polishing in the lathe where you're hands are damn close to the workpiece/chuck. When I'm not doing that and my hands are on the feed wheels...well those aren't sharp/dangerous.