I never brought Sera anywhere with me other than on her first quest. When she brought up the prank quest my response was "What? That's stupid, i'm not doing that. I'm the leader of a trans-national religious organization with the goal of stopping the apocalypse. I'm not going to put sand in Cullen's shoes or whatever the fuck you're thinking of." and then she was all "pfft" and then I left.
She was basically just some bratty kid who lived in the tavern in my castle for all that she contributed to my game.
Sidenote, not bringing her anywhere wasn't exactly a result of her personality, at least not at first. I didn't bring Cole anywhere either and I really like him. Varric was in my party for the entire game other than that five minutes of Sera's quest.
I'm not really understanding how interpreting her as having a mental disability is supposed to be offensive?
A lot of people have interpreted Cole's personality as sharing some symptoms with autism, and Cole is one of my favorite characters (probably why I view Solas more favorably than a lot of people, because he clearly loves Cole).
Because it is misrepresentation of people with actual mental disabilities
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
Varric Dorian and Iron bull are really great on the same team
I wish the game had more 3 part banter
I also kind of wish there was in-game banter with the inquisitor?
There sort of is... Varric was teasing Cassandra about smooching the Inquisitor and a little dialogue wheel just popped up whole running around in the field and gave me the option to either ask Varric to go easy on her or also tease her.
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
After I got everyone my party was Varric + Blackwall/Cassandra + Dorian/Vivienne.
Iron Bull was in there a couple of times, but since I myself was also a Reaver he was kind of redundant. I eventually stopped bringing Blackwall when he never had anything interesting to say or add to anything. Last 40 hours of the game was basically the Varric and Cassandra good times fun train.
As a result I don't really have any negative feelings towards Vivienne at all. We basically already share the same viewpoint, that the Circles are necessary but their current form doesn't work so we need to change them for the better. Throwing them out entirely won't work, because magic by its nature needs some sort of oversight just for the mage's benefit nevermind everyone else around them. Then after that she was basically courteous and friendly to the others we were traveling with. Her banters with Iron Bull are amazing.
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
like there were a lot of people who didn't like Jack in ME2
because she's abrasive and unpleasant and kind of a murderous thug
but Jack gets some character growth, especially if you romance her (which, to be frank, is kind of a troublesome aspect of these games but whatever)
so I get why some people didn't like Jack
that said, at least Jack felt like she was useful and belonged on the Normandy and wouldn't be an active detriment and that you weren't like, doing her harm by bringing her along
with Sera, her presence feels bad for the Inquisition because her Red Jenny bullshit seems like more headache than help and it seems like it's going to cause a bunch of political bullshit the Inquisition doesn't need
and ultimately all Sera herself is, is another archer with contacts in a murder-vigilante peasant-revolt movement thing
but also taking Sera along on adventures itself feels wrong because Sera is woefully unequppied, mentally and socially, to deal with basically half the shit you run into. She spends her time being either scared out of her mind or being an absolute intolerable shitstain (often the latter as cover for the former) because the weird fucked up shit you do on your adventures is waaaaaaaaaay outside her element.
Chincy, you could try arguing "But if you push through that, she has an arc where that changes, especially if you romance her!"
none of that's going to matter to me, because for one thing I'm not going to romance someone that I feel I have a really unpleasant and imbalanced power dynamic with, intellectually
for another the idea of romancing Sera is unpalatable because of her personality in general
and finally having to go through Sera's "arc" would require grinding through just... having Sera around in general which is just ringing hollow to me, narratively. It's like trying to justify a decision that doesn't make any narrative sense with the foreknowledge that it'll all turn around and justify itself later
Dude listen
You don't like her
Okay
but you keep saying things that, if you use her and go through her story lines, are innaccurate
she learns more about mages, about nobles, etc, and does change her views
if you don't want to use her to find that stuff, thats fine
but its kind of shitty to keep dropping walls of text where you call her mentally disabled when you haven't actually gone through her shit to see that that's not true!
so I dunno maybe stop being so INCREDIBLY aggressive and borderline offensive about it?
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
Kana, that is bullshit. I wasn't using a slur, and I'm getting a little sick and tired of being treated like I did.
I am extremely weary of your weepy well-meaning ally bullshit at the best of times but I want you to consider that you and Chincy are now sitting here trying to lecture a disabled person about disability sensitivity
like there were a lot of people who didn't like Jack in ME2
because she's abrasive and unpleasant and kind of a murderous thug
but Jack gets some character growth, especially if you romance her (which, to be frank, is kind of a troublesome aspect of these games but whatever)
so I get why some people didn't like Jack
that said, at least Jack felt like she was useful and belonged on the Normandy and wouldn't be an active detriment and that you weren't like, doing her harm by bringing her along
with Sera, her presence feels bad for the Inquisition because her Red Jenny bullshit seems like more headache than help and it seems like it's going to cause a bunch of political bullshit the Inquisition doesn't need
and ultimately all Sera herself is, is another archer with contacts in a murder-vigilante peasant-revolt movement thing
but also taking Sera along on adventures itself feels wrong because Sera is woefully unequppied, mentally and socially, to deal with basically half the shit you run into. She spends her time being either scared out of her mind or being an absolute intolerable shitstain (often the latter as cover for the former) because the weird fucked up shit you do on your adventures is waaaaaaaaaay outside her element.
Chincy, you could try arguing "But if you push through that, she has an arc where that changes, especially if you romance her!"
none of that's going to matter to me, because for one thing I'm not going to romance someone that I feel I have a really unpleasant and imbalanced power dynamic with, intellectually
for another the idea of romancing Sera is unpalatable because of her personality in general
and finally having to go through Sera's "arc" would require grinding through just... having Sera around in general which is just ringing hollow to me, narratively. It's like trying to justify a decision that doesn't make any narrative sense with the foreknowledge that it'll all turn around and justify itself later
Dude listen
You don't like her
Okay
but you keep saying things that, if you use her and go through her story lines, are innaccurate
she learns more about mages, about nobles, etc, and does change her views
if you don't want to use her to find that stuff, thats fine
but its kind of shitty to keep dropping walls of text where you call her mentally disabled when you haven't actually gone through her shit to see that that's not true!
so I dunno maybe stop being so INCREDIBLY aggressive and borderline offensive about it?
I...don't think that's true?
It is
listen to some of her banter stuff on youtube, particularly dorians
After I got everyone my party was Varric + Blackwall/Cassandra + Dorian/Vivienne.
Iron Bull was in there a couple of times, but since I myself was also a Reaver he was kind of redundant. I eventually stopped bringing Blackwall when he never had anything interesting to say or add to anything. Last 40 hours of the game was basically the Varric and Cassandra good times fun train.
As a result I don't really have any negative feelings towards Vivienne at all. We basically already share the same viewpoint, that the Circles are necessary but their current form doesn't work so we need to change them for the better. Throwing them out entirely won't work, because magic by its nature needs some sort of oversight just for the mage's benefit nevermind everyone else around them. Then after that she was basically courteous and friendly to the others we were traveling with. Her banters with Iron Bull are amazing.
I really like talking strategy and politics with Vivienne. In that kind of context she's pretty great.
But I basically brought her along in my party twice, once she started being super rude to Blackwall for just no reason at all, so I kicked her out.
Then I was taking her along in exalted plains way later, and we found a dead teenage elf and she's just like, "Stupid little elf was meddling in powers he didn't understand and got what he deserved."
Aaand we went right back to camp and I kicked her the hell out of my group for good. God damn lady, a little basic human decency, maybe?
When it comes to politics she's undeniably insightful, but holy shit she is such an ass
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
Kana, that is bullshit. I wasn't using a slur, and I'm getting a little sick and tired of being treated like I did.
I am extremely weary of your weepy well-meaning ally bullshit at the best of times but I want you to consider that you and Chincy are now sitting here trying to lecture a disabled person about disability sensitivity
Save me from these allies...
are you fucking kidding
you literally just came at me and said "my opinion is all that matters and yours is shit"
then Kana called you out on it and now they're shit
Never let being privileged stop you two dudes from feeling self righteous and offended on behalf of other people
Including fictional characters
Oh get over yourself already
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
He didn't use a slur. And he didn't call someone a bad name. He used a descriptor.
Vivienne appeals to me as a character on a lot of the same levels that Kreia does
Just, you know
More fabulous, less evil
I think Kreia is more nuanced but yeah
There are a lot of similarities I hadn't thought of
Oh man, Vivienne would be kind of a fabulous sith
I mean I still want to be able to throw her down the endless space-pit at the end, but
Yeah, Darth Viv, oh my yes
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
He didn't use a slur. And he didn't call someone a bad name. He used a descriptor.
and I asked him not to and he told me shut up you don't matter
After I got everyone my party was Varric + Blackwall/Cassandra + Dorian/Vivienne.
Iron Bull was in there a couple of times, but since I myself was also a Reaver he was kind of redundant. I eventually stopped bringing Blackwall when he never had anything interesting to say or add to anything. Last 40 hours of the game was basically the Varric and Cassandra good times fun train.
As a result I don't really have any negative feelings towards Vivienne at all. We basically already share the same viewpoint, that the Circles are necessary but their current form doesn't work so we need to change them for the better. Throwing them out entirely won't work, because magic by its nature needs some sort of oversight just for the mage's benefit nevermind everyone else around them. Then after that she was basically courteous and friendly to the others we were traveling with. Her banters with Iron Bull are amazing.
I really like talking strategy and politics with Vivienne. In that kind of context she's pretty great.
But I basically brought her along in my party twice, once she started being super rude to Blackwall for just no reason at all, so I kicked her out.
Then I was taking her along in exalted plains way later, and we found a dead teenage elf and she's just like, "Stupid little elf was meddling in powers he didn't understand and got what he deserved."
Aaand we went right back to camp and I kicked her the hell out of my group for good. God damn lady, a little basic human decency, maybe?
When it comes to politics she's undeniably insightful, but holy shit she is such an ass
vivienne is basically a Circle/Orlesian Court apparatchik and therefore she is of undeniable use to the Inquisition but is just such an unpleasant person to be around that the only time I will ever put her in my party is when I go to the swamp so that I can hear the sky watcher lay down the sickest burn on her
Varric Dorian and Iron bull are really great on the same team
I wish the game had more 3 part banter
I also kind of wish there was in-game banter with the inquisitor?
There sort of is... Varric was teasing Cassandra about smooching the Inquisitor and a little dialogue wheel just popped up whole running around in the field and gave me the option to either ask Varric to go easy on her or also tease her.
That's the only time it happaned to me though.
I had that happen, as well as one that popped up the first time I went to Val Royeaux with Cassandra. The first time, in Val Royeaux, I thought it was messing up the dialogue interface (which happens sometimes) so I didn't do anything and the conversation continued.
Actually I'm curious about something with Viv, though I haven't tried it yet.
Viv personal quest spoilers
So there's an option to give her a regular wyvern heart instead of the snowy wyvern heart. I haven't done it because it seems kind of evil, if I'm going to refuse her request I'll just do it openly, not give her the wrong thing.
But in thinking about it and looking at her card change if you do that, I realized that she's probably knowledgable enough to know what kind of heart you're giving her but that she might use it anyway as an excuse to get rid of Bastian and raise her own power. Has anyone tried it, and if so what are the repercussions?
Vivienne personal quest spoilers:
I also couldn't bring myself to do it, but I did find a video with that outcome. Go to about 5:22:
Basically, she doesn't realize it's the wrong heart until she mixes the formula right at his bedside. She then confronts you on bringing her the wrong heart back at Skyhold. It definitely seems as though she's very upset at Bastian's death, and blames you.
That video doesn't fully answer my question, because
(Vivienne, later game spoilers)
If you do the quest the right way, then later in the game Bastian's family come to visit and you see Vivienne skillfully spinning Bastian's death to aquire more power for herself.
Probably she still felt something for the man, but she's not above using his corpse as a tool.
She's also very good at showing the emotion that you want to see.
So I can totally see her acting outraged that would sabotage her potion, possibly costing a man's life, because that's the politically intelligent way to respond, all the while hiding the fact that she's really happy he's dead because it means she can advance. It's hard to really know, since the great game is all about masks, and Vivienne is very, very good at the game. So I can see a possibility of that later scene being changed to show that she knew perfectly well what she was feeding Bastian and did it anyway because it worked in her favor.
I think you're wrong on a few things here.
She actually gets nothing from the wife and son. She already knows them, and from her earlier conversations she's even friends with the wife. She invites them as a boon to you, because they're connected and are pleased as punch to meet you. Bastien was going to die, like, the dude was apparently bedridden (he was the one not present at the ball, I believe). I sincerely doubt she had you kill a wyvern to hasten it by a short period. I think you have Vivienne in the "look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the place" zone.
Is there a playable preview version or demo for this game anywhere? I remember DA2 had one and that was one of the things that got me to buy it. I actually miss games having playable demos, especially since 'renting' doesn't really exist anymore.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited December 2014
I grant that I could be 100% wrong about her.
But like I said, it's pretty difficult to tell because, as Josie puts it, never showing your cards is the basic assumption of The Game. Vivienne is a supreme player of the game.
Cambiata on
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
The continued statement AND SHE NEVER CHANGES is absolutely false, demonstrably so, and completely ignores where the character goes
you are stating she is disabled because of how you perceive her to be at the beginning of her arc, and I am telling you that that arc fills out and explains the character
if you want to either experience that and then confirm your beliefs or just say "I hate this character I don't want to use her" thats fine but I'm REALLY uncomfortable with the language you're using and I'd appreciate it if you stopped, thats all
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
He didn't use a slur. And he didn't call someone a bad name. He used a descriptor.
and I asked him not to and he told me shut up you don't matter
Posts
And I was like
who the fuck are you to lecture me
and then she moved all my stuff around to see if it would wind me up
and I was like
the fuck is this shit since when did I need you to pull my hair and tell me I need it
Like I appreciate that she takes an antagonistic attitude towards the Inquisitor, it's cool from a storytelling perspective
but I remember being mad at the time
And that's good writing, so no worries
Just, you know
More fabulous, less evil
She was basically just some bratty kid who lived in the tavern in my castle for all that she contributed to my game.
Sidenote, not bringing her anywhere wasn't exactly a result of her personality, at least not at first. I didn't bring Cole anywhere either and I really like him. Varric was in my party for the entire game other than that five minutes of Sera's quest.
Because it is misrepresentation of people with actual mental disabilities
I'm all about rollin' with Varric/Dorian/The Iron Bull
cool folk party
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
This is also great
Vivienne/Dorian just sass off each other and Blackwall is a giant bullseye
I wish the game had more 3 part banter
I also kind of wish there was in-game banter with the inquisitor?
I was listening to some of the banter compilations on youtube
I'm 50 hours in and havent heard even a portion of even the combinations I DO use regularly
I'm casting doubt on your perception of her arc, to be frank, Chincy, because you and I have demonstrable differences of opinion on nearly everything so I basically don't trust you on this. And I have no interest in grinding out Sera's arc regardless, especially when it appears the meat of it is linked to her romance and eeeeeuuugh, that's incredibly unpleasant to me as an idea.
I don't care if you're uncomfortable with the language I'm using to describe Sera, and I want you to stop and examine maybe why it makes you so uncomfortable and offends you so much? Is it because you simply think it's inaccurate, or is it because you like the character and you are romancing the character, or what? I'm not using slurs, or being dismissive of Sera's entire personage because of how I perceive her as being presented as possibly being disabled, it's just that I don't find the character one I want in my party or in the Inquisition for that reason. Arguing "well, that's not true! She just seems that way because you haven't played her arc out! She changes her mind about stuff!" is missing the point. It's not just that she has ignorant opinions about the world, Chincy. It's her entire behavior and most importantly her inability to understand shit that make me draw this conclusion and go "I don't want this person in my adventuring party. This seems frustrating and not a good idea."
I doubt that changes through her arc, dude. You could try to argue otherwise, but I dunno, bro. I doubt it, given the way she was written and presented, and I'm not going to take your word for it.
But more importantly, I want you to consider why you think telling a mentally disabled guy that describing someone else as mentally disabled is "problematic and offensive", bro.
There sort of is... Varric was teasing Cassandra about smooching the Inquisitor and a little dialogue wheel just popped up whole running around in the field and gave me the option to either ask Varric to go easy on her or also tease her.
That's the only time it happaned to me though.
this is so gay
no no, it's cool, I'm bi so I get to use that word
If it makes you uncomfortable then too bad I don't need to examine that at all
Don't get all tumblr-y at me, bro
You should understand that when we have experiences that differ, mine is inherently more valid.
OK, good talk.
Iron Bull was in there a couple of times, but since I myself was also a Reaver he was kind of redundant. I eventually stopped bringing Blackwall when he never had anything interesting to say or add to anything. Last 40 hours of the game was basically the Varric and Cassandra good times fun train.
As a result I don't really have any negative feelings towards Vivienne at all. We basically already share the same viewpoint, that the Circles are necessary but their current form doesn't work so we need to change them for the better. Throwing them out entirely won't work, because magic by its nature needs some sort of oversight just for the mage's benefit nevermind everyone else around them. Then after that she was basically courteous and friendly to the others we were traveling with. Her banters with Iron Bull are amazing.
holy shit
I...don't think that's true?
Kana, that is bullshit. I wasn't using a slur, and I'm getting a little sick and tired of being treated like I did.
I am extremely weary of your weepy well-meaning ally bullshit at the best of times but I want you to consider that you and Chincy are now sitting here trying to lecture a disabled person about disability sensitivity
Save me from these allies...
It is
listen to some of her banter stuff on youtube, particularly dorians
I really like talking strategy and politics with Vivienne. In that kind of context she's pretty great.
But I basically brought her along in my party twice, once she started being super rude to Blackwall for just no reason at all, so I kicked her out.
Then I was taking her along in exalted plains way later, and we found a dead teenage elf and she's just like, "Stupid little elf was meddling in powers he didn't understand and got what he deserved."
Aaand we went right back to camp and I kicked her the hell out of my group for good. God damn lady, a little basic human decency, maybe?
When it comes to politics she's undeniably insightful, but holy shit she is such an ass
are you fucking kidding
you literally just came at me and said "my opinion is all that matters and yours is shit"
then Kana called you out on it and now they're shit
fucking awesome dude
Including fictional characters
I think Kreia is more nuanced but yeah
There are a lot of similarities I hadn't thought of
Oh get over yourself already
hahahahahaa fuck off pony
I'm severe anxiety disorder, ms chilla is bisexual and my father is permanently disabled
dont tell me only your opinion matters without even asking what my situation is
"I can't romance her, because it seems like she's mentally disabled to the point where there is a power imbalance" also not a slur.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
He didn't use a slur. And he didn't call someone a bad name. He used a descriptor.
Oh man, Vivienne would be kind of a fabulous sith
I mean I still want to be able to throw her down the endless space-pit at the end, but
Yeah, Darth Viv, oh my yes
and I asked him not to and he told me shut up you don't matter
Holy christ.
vivienne is basically a Circle/Orlesian Court apparatchik and therefore she is of undeniable use to the Inquisition but is just such an unpleasant person to be around that the only time I will ever put her in my party is when I go to the swamp so that I can hear the sky watcher lay down the sickest burn on her
Warned @Pony (0 points for 1 week) for "Kicked from thread: Not welcome"
I had that happen, as well as one that popped up the first time I went to Val Royeaux with Cassandra. The first time, in Val Royeaux, I thought it was messing up the dialogue interface (which happens sometimes) so I didn't do anything and the conversation continued.
My Steam
On my sleeve, let the runway start
I think you're wrong on a few things here.
But like I said, it's pretty difficult to tell because, as Josie puts it, never showing your cards is the basic assumption of The Game. Vivienne is a supreme player of the game.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
I think she does it if she doesn't like you
Yeah I was responding to kana, should have quoted