A Thread for the Senate Report on CIA Torture

Quid

This seems like something that's going to be dominating the news for a while. The report itself hasn't been released to my knowledge but totaled over 6,000 pages long. The summary of about 500 pages can be viewed here:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/politics/torture-report/

Or here if you want the full (massive) pdf:

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

Long story short: It isn't good. At all. I've only skimmed it so far but there is some extremely graphic stuff in there and the report's conclusion is that it didn't serve much if any purpose. Most embassies and bases are at a heightened alert right now for potential backlash.

It's pretty much all around awful.

nexuscrawler

Did they directly address any of the CIA's efforts to obstruct the Senate's inquiries?

Quid

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Did they directly address any of the CIA's efforts to obstruct the Senate's inquiries?

Yep. I don't know about later but several of the complaints in the foreword were about the CIA blocking different departments, agencies, and branches from obtaining information.

SyphonBlue

One of the guys who died from torture wasn't even the right guy. Not only was he not the right guy, he died from

being frozen to death

He was chained up and left to freeze to death

Sir Landshark

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/09/world/cia-torture-report-document.html

I believe this is the full report? I'm at work but it looks like the first 20-25 pages provide a nice summary. I will definitely be reading this later.

SyphonBlue

https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/542354518596657152

Fuck you

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/542398265769984000

Fuck you

https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom/status/542353867938463744

Fuck you

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/542356968737107968

FUCK YOU

Quid

Sir Landshark wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/09/world/cia-torture-report-document.html

I believe this is the full report? I'm at work but it looks like the first 20-25 pages provide a nice summary. I will definitely be reading this later.

Nah that's the summary too. The full report is apparently 6k pages but hasn't been released.

AngelHedgie

People are pushing for Udall to read it into the Congressional Record.

Quid

The CIA contracted with two psychologists to develop, operate, and assess its interrogation operations.

...

In 2006, the value of the CIA's base contract with the company formed by the psychologists with all options exercised was in excess of $180 million; the contractors received $81 million prior to the contract's termination in 2009.

So the program was both unnecessarily cruel and incompetent.

DiannaoChong

Wow, that document says the CIA had another operation during this period where it leaked faked documents to press in order to create a narrative that it wasn't doing what it was doing. Get a couple senators out there going "we only ever torturedenhanced interrogated 2 people and we got so much great info out of them!", completely block any other government entity from doing any work or investigating, actively harm your own country in the process.

I'm glad these guys are on our side.

AngelHedgie

Quid wrote: »

The CIA contracted with two psychologists to develop, operate, and assess its interrogation operations.

...

In 2006, the value of the CIA's base contract with the company formed by the psychologists with all options exercised was in excess of $180 million; the contractors received $81 million prior to the contract's termination in 2009.

So the program was both unnecessarily cruel and incompetent.

It's a bad idea to discuss competence or effacy here though.

Preacher

So much fury at this, and the sad part is for most americans the reaction is "So they're terrorists." SO ANGRY!

Jephery

Its weird how Republicans are calling it a political move to release this report, when the report is bipartisan and released after the elections.

If anything, everyone involved was happy to wait until the politics didn't matter to release it.

Edit: Also, during the final two years of a lame duck president about as far away from the presidential election as you can get it.

Preacher

Anything that makes merica look bad is a democrats fault.

AngelHedgie

Jephery wrote: »

Its weird how Republicans are calling it a political move to release this report, when the report is bipartisan and released after the elections.

If anything, everyone involved was happy to wait until the politics didn't matter to release it.

Edit: Also, during the final two years of a lame duck president about as far away from the presidential election as you can get it.

Probably because the report makes Jeb's life a bit harder if he runs.

Preacher

GOP Opposes Report's Release

Along with the majority report led by Feinstein, Republicans on the committee released a report opposing the release of the study.

"As we have both stated before, we are opposed to this study and believe it will present serious consequences for U.S. national security," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, ranking member of the committee, and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a statement. "Regardless of what one's opinions may be on these issues, the study by Senate Democrats is an ideologically motivated and distorted recounting of historical events. The fact that the CIA's Detention and Interrogation program developed significant intelligence that helped us identify and capture important al Qaeda terrorists, disrupt their ongoing plotting, and take down Osama Bin Ladin is incontrovertible. Claims included in this report that assert the contrary are simply wrong."

"Look we don't believe what are own report claims happened, so it didn't happen. The GOP philosophy in general.

SyphonBlue

Preacher wrote: »

GOP Opposes Report's Release

Along with the majority report led by Feinstein, Republicans on the committee released a report opposing the release of the study.

"As we have both stated before, we are opposed to this study and believe it will present serious consequences for U.S. national security," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, ranking member of the committee, and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a statement. "Regardless of what one's opinions may be on these issues, the study by Senate Democrats is an ideologically motivated and distorted recounting of historical events. The fact that the CIA's Detention and Interrogation program developed significant intelligence that helped us identify and capture important al Qaeda terrorists, disrupt their ongoing plotting, and take down Osama Bin Ladin is incontrovertible. Claims included in this report that assert the contrary are simply wrong."

"Look we don't believe what are own report claims happened, so it didn't happen. The GOP philosophy in general.

IT DIDN'T DO THAT

THE REPORT STATES THAT NONE OF THE INTELLIGENCE GAINED FROM TORTURE WAS CORRECT AND HELPED IN ANY WAY

IT SAYS IT RIGHT THERE IN THE FUCKING REPORT

Daedalus

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

GOP Opposes Report's Release

Along with the majority report led by Feinstein, Republicans on the committee released a report opposing the release of the study.

"As we have both stated before, we are opposed to this study and believe it will present serious consequences for U.S. national security," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, ranking member of the committee, and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a statement. "Regardless of what one's opinions may be on these issues, the study by Senate Democrats is an ideologically motivated and distorted recounting of historical events. The fact that the CIA's Detention and Interrogation program developed significant intelligence that helped us identify and capture important al Qaeda terrorists, disrupt their ongoing plotting, and take down Osama Bin Ladin is incontrovertible. Claims included in this report that assert the contrary are simply wrong."

"Look we don't believe what are own report claims happened, so it didn't happen. The GOP philosophy in general.

IT DIDN'T DO THAT

THE REPORT STATES THAT NONE OF THE INTELLIGENCE GAINED FROM TORTURE WAS CORRECT AND HELPED IN ANY WAY

IT SAYS IT RIGHT THERE IN THE FUCKING REPORT

Look, they're just using an "enhanced interpretation" of the report.

Enc

Goddamn, this is some straight up evil stuff. How do any of the people who did this live with themselves.

Preacher

Enc wrote: »

Goddamn, this is some straight up evil stuff. How do any of the people who did this live with themselves.

They fall back on the nazi excuse, following orders. Or they claim the bullshit ticking time bomb mentality. The sad part is these techniques actively harm actual intelligence gathering, because its not enough to be a monster, we have to be a monster and fail at our stated purpose.

Polaritie

Preacher wrote: »

Enc wrote: »

Goddamn, this is some straight up evil stuff. How do any of the people who did this live with themselves.

They fall back on the nazi excuse, following orders. Or they claim the bullshit ticking time bomb mentality. The sad part is these techniques actively harm actual intelligence gathering, because its not enough to be a monster, we have to be a monster and fail at our stated purpose.

And of course, being a monster also helps terrorist recruitment.

We seem to be really good at doing horibbly unethical things that work against the justification.

Preacher

I see the deflection is coming in two ways.

A. "Obama drone strikes terrorists" aka "Both sides are bad."

B. "We already knew about this, this just harms america because merica mercia democratic politicians, america."

Quid

Contrary to CIA Director Hayden's comments and Statement for the Record that "all those involved in the questioning of detainees are carefully chosen and screened for demonstrated professional judgment and maturity"... The Committee identified a number of personnel whose backgrounds included notable derogatory information calling into question their eligibility for employment, their access to classified information, and their participation in CIA interrogation activities. In nearly all cases, the derogatory information was known to the CIA prior to the assignment of the CIA officers to the Detention and Interrogation Program. This group of officers included individuals who, among other issues, had engaged in inappropriate detainee interrogations, had workplace anger management issues, and had reportedly admitted to sexual assault.

Preacher

Quid wrote: »

Contrary to CIA Director Hayden's comments and Statement for the Record that "all those involved in the questioning of detainees are carefully chosen and screened for demonstrated professional judgment and maturity"... The Committee identified a number of personnel whose backgrounds included notable derogatory information calling into question their eligibility for employment, their access to classified information, and their participation in CIA interrogation activities. In nearly all cases, the derogatory information was known to the CIA prior to the assignment of the CIA officers to the Detention and Interrogation Program. This group of officers included individuals who, among other issues, had engaged in inappropriate detainee interrogations, had workplace anger management issues, and had reportedly admitted to sexual assault.

Holy shit. We had rapists working as torturers? That's it shut this fucking country down, we're done, that's fucking nazi shit.

Quid

While I think it's terrible too, sexual assault isn't the same as rape. And it's actually kind of important not to confuse the two.

Preacher

How so? Sexual assault is a synonym for rape in legal terms I thought? I don't mean to derail the thread but its not exactly like Sexual harrasment. Assault usually implies force of some kind with regards to sexual violence.

_J_

Preacher wrote: »

So much fury at this, and the sad part is for most americans the reaction is "So they're terrorists." SO ANGRY!

Back when this first happened I was still working my real people job. One day the secretary summed it up thusly:

"The terrorists want to kill us, and people are upset that we splash them with water?"

If the report can get people like that to reflect, even just a little, then maybe it will be useful. They won't reflect, of course, but...well, I guess there is no upshot. Mostly just still irked at the secretary.

Tofystedeth

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

GOP Opposes Report's Release

Along with the majority report led by Feinstein, Republicans on the committee released a report opposing the release of the study.

"As we have both stated before, we are opposed to this study and believe it will present serious consequences for U.S. national security," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, ranking member of the committee, and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a statement. "Regardless of what one's opinions may be on these issues, the study by Senate Democrats is an ideologically motivated and distorted recounting of historical events. The fact that the CIA's Detention and Interrogation program developed significant intelligence that helped us identify and capture important al Qaeda terrorists, disrupt their ongoing plotting, and take down Osama Bin Ladin is incontrovertible. Claims included in this report that assert the contrary are simply wrong."

"Look we don't believe what are own report claims happened, so it didn't happen. The GOP philosophy in general.

IT DIDN'T DO THAT

THE REPORT STATES THAT NONE OF THE INTELLIGENCE GAINED FROM TORTURE WAS CORRECT AND HELPED IN ANY WAY

IT SAYS IT RIGHT THERE IN THE FUCKING REPORT

In their defense (ugh I can't believe I'm typing that) they acknowledge that it's in the report. They just think the report is wrong.

Quid

Preacher wrote: »

How so? Sexual assault is a synonym for rape in legal terms I thought? I don't mean to derail the thread but its not exactly like Sexual harrasment. Assault usually implies force of some kind with regards to sexual violence.

It covers a wide range of actions including rape, sexual harassment, etc. Mind that that's separate from any given state's or organization's legal definitions.

Draygo

Quid wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

How so? Sexual assault is a synonym for rape in legal terms I thought? I don't mean to derail the thread but its not exactly like Sexual harrasment. Assault usually implies force of some kind with regards to sexual violence.

It covers a wide range of actions including rape, sexual harassment, etc. Mind that that's separate from any given state's or organization's legal definitions.

Usually when I hear assault in a legal sense it means its verbal, or in threat of. So sexual assault would be the threat of rape, not actual rape.

Basically threatening sexual violence and or rape. Battery is when you actually use physical force. Correct me if I'm wrong, because the semantics of this doesn't mean its any less terrible.

EriktheVikingGamer

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault

Preacher

Not all states have Battery as a separate crime. Like washington state has degrees of assault but no battery. So that charge might cover actual rapists.

Again its semantics, that we had loose standards for picking our willing torturers while completely believable is still fucking horrific.

Quid

Yeah, the point is that regardless of the specifics, people with a history of anger, violence, and sexual impropriety were given vast power and authority over others with little to no oversight.

Preacher

And it was done in the name of the american people. This was done for "us" and authorized by the people we elected. And now those people are calling these monsters Heroes.

This is not a proud day for america.

MrMister

One interrogator told another detainee that he would never go to court, because "we can never let the world know what I have done to you."

All hail the national security state.

Dehumanized

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/08/world/does-torture-work-the-cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html?_r=1

Some of the cases mentioned in this article involve informants willingly providing legit information to the intelligence community, then the CIA torturing them, then the CIA claiming that the torture revealed the intel.

TOGSolid

The reactions to this report I'm seeing from a disturbing amount of US citizens kinda puts into perspective where a supervillain gets their motivation from because god damn, I am fucking fed up with the amount of horseshit this country and its people sling around.

Fuck these "patriots" and fuck this country.

Preacher

Now is the time you can clear your facebook of torture apologists.

TOGSolid

Preacher wrote: »

Now is the time you can clear your facebook of torture apologists.

Thankfully I don't have any because I'm pretty vocal about my views and they tend to drive that crowd off pretty hard. A solid stream of anti-police, anti-religion stuff does the trick pretty well.

Polaritie

Dehumanized wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/08/world/does-torture-work-the-cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html?_r=1

Some of the cases mentioned in this article involve informants willingly providing legit information to the intelligence community, then the CIA torturing them, then the CIA claiming that the torture revealed the intel.

What.

Thats... thats kicking puppies type evil.

Preacher

This should be it for the CIA. Shut that fucker down, they lied to everyone and probably continue to do so.