there can be an argument made for harmful negligence in telling such a personal story to such a large audience and not properly predicting what that audience might do on their own
but "she doesn't care about the people involved, she cares about the story/podcast being popular. And she showed that by barging into his house, uninvited, upsetting his family, and then continually dragging his name through the mud" is way off base
I mean, she absolutely came to his house and upset his family, she said that herself. That's part of the podcast. Her producer did say that Jay had "animal rage" that briefly displayed across his face while they were there. She did continue to highlight Jay and talk to people who knew Jay even though he was clearly uncomfortable with her doing that, and given his reaction to her episodes was to finally say things like
When did you first become aware that Sarah Koenig was working on something about this trial?
Earlier this summer I got some phone calls from people back in Baltimore that a reporter was asking about me and the case. I also got a message around that time from a friend on Facebook saying that some lady is asking about Adnan. But it didn’t stick with me, and I didn’t look into it much further. But earlier this year I had to go back East and was back in Baltimore, because my grandmother died. When I was there I heard from a few people that [Koenig] was harassing people at their jobs, making countless phone calls [to people] who kept saying they did not want to speak with her. I was talking to one of my friends, who had just recently gotten over a drug addiction, who she tried to talk to about this case. He told me it was really painful for him, and he didn’t want to go back and revisit this crap.
Tell me about the day she arrived at your house.
There was a knock on my door in late August or early September, I can’t remember exactly when, but I remember I was changing my clothes. As soon as I opened that door I knew that it was her, the woman who was harassing my friends in Baltimore.
Was she alone?
No, it was her and another woman [‘Serial’ producer Julie Snyder]. She said that she was a reporter from New York, and that she worked on a show called ‘This American Life.’ And I knew there was only one thing that anyone would want to come and talk to me about as a reporter, you know?
She said you invited her in.
I did, and I asked her straightforward, ‘Where did the story come from? How did you come about it?’ And she said she was a reporter at the time of the trial and knew about Cristina Gutierrez [Adnan’s lawyer who was disbarred in 2001]. So I continued questioning her, and it was clear there were key people who weren’t talking to her. Like Hae’s family, the detectives, and other people who ducked and dodged lawyers and cops so they wouldn’t come to testify. I told Sarah that the only one who deserves any type of closure from any of this is her mom. If [Hae’s mother] had some unanswered questions, and she needs to know what happened here, then I’d say, ‘I’ll walk [you] through all that.’ That’s the only person I’m going through all that shit for.
Did she ever say she was doing a podcast?
No, she said she was doing a radio show. They pitched it to me as an NPR radio show. I could also tell that she was uncomfortable talking to me. Her lips were quivering, and I just felt like she was lying. They were in the love seat over there [points across the room], and their body language was just making me really uncomfortable. It was confusing because they also pitched this story to me as a documentary, and they wanted to put me on video. By this time my wife was getting real upset. Our kids were crying. My wife knows about my involvement in this case. Because I eventually cooperated with the police and testified, I know that there are people back home who would consider me a snitch and would hurt me. So, for the most part, we’ve been really protective about our privacy. My wife would regularly Google my name to make sure none of my personal information would show up. So when these two women show up at my door it sent my wife into a panic. And when we asked them how they got our address, Koenig said something like, ‘Sadly, it wasn’t hard to find.’
Was the name ‘Serial’ ever used?
No. Not to my recollection. She kept saying ‘This American Life,’ ‘the radio,’ and ‘a documentary.’ There was no talk of ‘Serial’ or a podcast. Then I asked her outright, ‘Are you an advocate for Adnan?’ She said ‘No,’ that she wasn’t his advocate. But she said that she had talked to Adnan, and she wanted to get more information about the case. She said there was new evidence, and I said there’s no new evidence that’s gonna change what I saw: I saw Hae dead in the trunk of the car. If Adnan wants to take the stand now and explain that away, let him. But there’s no evidence that’s gonna change what I saw. I don’t know how she was murdered, I don’t know exactly how she got put in that trunk, and I told the cops that. If Koenig wants to get into how that all happened she can go there. But that doesn’t change what I saw. And that’s the only time I commented directly on the case to her.
Did you ask her to leave at any point?
Yes. My wife took all our kids upstairs. And I think she started Googling Sarah and the other producer. I was downstairs and asked them if they had any business cards that said who they were. They said didn’t have any on them, and that she had to go out to her car and get one. When she came back with a card that didn’t even have her name on it, she apologized for bombarding us, and said that she felt bad that it made us uncomfortable, and that she was really sorry. I asked them to leave at this point because they were upsetting my wife and kids. But she said she was going to be around for another two days, and hopefully they could schedule another time to talk with me, and it wouldn’t be in our house. She kept saying, ‘It’s going to be in your interest to talk to me,’ and that just started to feel like a threat, like if I didn’t talk to her it was going to be bad news for me.
Telling someone that they better talk to you because it's in your best interest is fucked. That is fucked up.
I do not think it is projecting to say that the feel of Serial is what I said previously.
there can be an argument made for harmful negligence in telling such a personal story to such a large audience and not properly predicting what that audience might do on their own
but "she doesn't care about the people involved, she cares about the story/podcast being popular. And she showed that by barging into his house, uninvited, upsetting his family, and then continually dragging his name through the mud" is way off base
she knew what the consequences were. She threatened Jay with them.
Responding to someone who is fearful of their privacy with "sadly you weren't that hard to find" and "it's in your best interest to talk to me" is acknowledgement of those consequences. She just didn't care.
Koenig is detached from the subjects of her writing in the manner of a journalist, and frets about it on record, but certainly doesn't let her misgivings restrict her behaviour too damn much
Koenig is detached from the subjects of her writing in the manner of a journalist, and frets about it on record, but certainly doesn't let her misgivings restrict her behaviour too damn much
yes, and she used that to create the most popular podcast ever. It's not like she was doing this pro bono. She asked for donations from the incredibly large audience.
I will absolutely and unironically talk about DBZ with anyone in my podcast.
I'll even go on about powerlevel discussions; you set up your favorite X vs Y character battles and I will spend a fucking hour dissecting it with my own personal pick.
She certainly felt the need to pester loads of people who wanted to leave the past in the past
Well, this person might know something that could exonerate someone who's been imprisoned for life, but they want to let sleeping dogs lie, so let's just not be a bother.
I think showing up at Jay's house is mega-shitty, and borderline unprofessional. I don't think "pestering" is some big breach or moral issue. As she is a journalist I don't have a problem with her calling people involved in the case. If it's actually harassment then the person can seek a legal remedy (and obviously if it got to that point, Koenig would probably have already crossed the line of acceptability).
there can be an argument made for harmful negligence in telling such a personal story to such a large audience and not properly predicting what that audience might do on their own
but "she doesn't care about the people involved, she cares about the story/podcast being popular. And she showed that by barging into his house, uninvited, upsetting his family, and then continually dragging his name through the mud" is way off base
she knew what the consequences were. She threatened Jay with them.
Responding to someone who is fearful of their privacy with "sadly you weren't that hard to find" and "it's in your best interest to talk to me" is acknowledgement of those consequences. She just didn't care.
"Sadly you weren't that hard to find" is a statement of fact. I guess you could perceive it as a threat if you were reading it with that mindset. "It's in your best interest to talk to me" is a statement made in the late-stage context of how big the podcast had already become. If there was any danger of creepo vigilantism or harassment (which I assume is what you're implying is being threatened), it existed regardless of whether Jay participated in the podcast or not. I don't think it's unreasonable for Koenig to conclude that the story as it exists is unfavorable to Jay and that he might be able to provide a better, clearer perspective on his side of the story and thus defray some of that anger that was already out there.
Also, both of those quotes are things that Jay said Koenig said, but surely Jay is perceiving the situation differently than most would (anything could seem aggressive in that context, certainly) and also might be motivated to make Koenig seem unprofessional, duplicitous, or otherwise selfish.
You're ignoring a lot of the context of the situation (i.e., the podcast and story being a giant phenomenon; the genie was out of the bottle), and casting all of Koenig's actions in the worst possible light. I don't know that your assumptions are even incorrect, I just think it bears mentioning that this conclusion (about someone's personal motivations and ethics) is based largely on the second-hand description of their actions from someone who might be motivated to make them look bad.
I'm only here for the occasional MBMBaM/Adventure Zone talk.
+2
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
i've seen about fifteen minutes of giant bomb video content and listened to an hour of one of their podcasts a year ago
"sadly you weren't that hard to find" is a statement of fact. I guess you could perceive it as a threat if you were reading it with that mindset.
I ain't a psychologist but I got a feeling that a dude who is presented with a reporter poking around a potential murder rap from fifteen years ago is going to be in that mindset
"sadly you weren't that hard to find" is a statement of fact. I guess you could perceive it as a threat if you were reading it with that mindset.
I ain't a psychologist but I got a feeling that a dude who is presented with a reporter poking around a potential murder rap from fifteen years ago is going to be in that mindset
No, yeah, totally, I agree. I tried to acknowledge that by saying "anything could seem aggressive in that context."
The whole deal has the look of something that got way bigger way faster than Koenig anticipated, and she obviously didn't consider the potential ramifications of that popularity. I definitely don't think Koenig comes out of the first set of Serial episodes looking at all good, I just don't think there's enough info to suggest literal malice on her part.
I don't know why they didn't use pseudonyms. Seems like that might have helped!
It was really weird listening to Jeff talk about his new car, and all the crazy stuff it can do. Firmware updates, even. All the while i'm listening to him while i'm driving to class, through the podcast app on my phone, but while also using this bad boy:
Just kind of surreal how different technology is from even 15 years ago.
It was really weird listening to Jeff talk about his new car, and all the crazy stuff it can do. Firmware updates, even. All the while i'm listening to him while i'm driving to class, through the podcast app on my phone, but while also using this bad boy:
Just kind of surreal how different technology is from even 15 years ago.
To be fair, those tape deck things are pretty great. Been using one since I started driving in 06.
If you want something that is similar to the bombcast but with people more excited and energetic, and that cares more about fighting games and jrpgs, go with the Best Friends podcast
If you want something that is similar to the bombcast but with people more excited and energetic, and that cares more about fighting games and jrpgs, go with the Best Friends podcast
I like those guys reacting to stuff on a screen.
Not entirely sure I would like to hear them loudly reacting inside my ears for an hour or so, but maybe I'll give them a shot.
Posts
but "she doesn't care about the people involved, she cares about the story/podcast being popular. And she showed that by barging into his house, uninvited, upsetting his family, and then continually dragging his name through the mud" is way off base
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
This is from pages ago and god I hope the giantbomb yelling is over BUT I DISAGREE WITH THIS POST
He either has only the most baaassiiic understanding of pop science articles or is just bad at conveying the things he knows (I know I am!)
It.. I don't know. It almost bugs me when he tries to talk about science and people act like he knows what he is talking about.
Telling someone that they better talk to you because it's in your best interest is fucked. That is fucked up.
I do not think it is projecting to say that the feel of Serial is what I said previously.
I like that he appreciates that stuff and can occasionally call other bombers out when they say something scientifically ridiculous
but oh gosh whenever he tries to explain something it gets cringeworthy
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
she knew what the consequences were. She threatened Jay with them.
Responding to someone who is fearful of their privacy with "sadly you weren't that hard to find" and "it's in your best interest to talk to me" is acknowledgement of those consequences. She just didn't care.
yes, and she used that to create the most popular podcast ever. It's not like she was doing this pro bono. She asked for donations from the incredibly large audience.
Brad's just bad at explaining stuff, no matter what "stuff" is.
Cynicism!
But freal. That particular thing was a thing that's been bugging me for a while so I took that opportunity to pounce
I'll even go on about powerlevel discussions; you set up your favorite X vs Y character battles and I will spend a fucking hour dissecting it with my own personal pick.
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is Abridged.
Well, this person might know something that could exonerate someone who's been imprisoned for life, but they want to let sleeping dogs lie, so let's just not be a bother.
I think showing up at Jay's house is mega-shitty, and borderline unprofessional. I don't think "pestering" is some big breach or moral issue. As she is a journalist I don't have a problem with her calling people involved in the case. If it's actually harassment then the person can seek a legal remedy (and obviously if it got to that point, Koenig would probably have already crossed the line of acceptability).
"Sadly you weren't that hard to find" is a statement of fact. I guess you could perceive it as a threat if you were reading it with that mindset. "It's in your best interest to talk to me" is a statement made in the late-stage context of how big the podcast had already become. If there was any danger of creepo vigilantism or harassment (which I assume is what you're implying is being threatened), it existed regardless of whether Jay participated in the podcast or not. I don't think it's unreasonable for Koenig to conclude that the story as it exists is unfavorable to Jay and that he might be able to provide a better, clearer perspective on his side of the story and thus defray some of that anger that was already out there.
Also, both of those quotes are things that Jay said Koenig said, but surely Jay is perceiving the situation differently than most would (anything could seem aggressive in that context, certainly) and also might be motivated to make Koenig seem unprofessional, duplicitous, or otherwise selfish.
You're ignoring a lot of the context of the situation (i.e., the podcast and story being a giant phenomenon; the genie was out of the bottle), and casting all of Koenig's actions in the worst possible light. I don't know that your assumptions are even incorrect, I just think it bears mentioning that this conclusion (about someone's personal motivations and ethics) is based largely on the second-hand description of their actions from someone who might be motivated to make them look bad.
Like, just bunches!
I ain't a psychologist but I got a feeling that a dude who is presented with a reporter poking around a potential murder rap from fifteen years ago is going to be in that mindset
No, yeah, totally, I agree. I tried to acknowledge that by saying "anything could seem aggressive in that context."
The whole deal has the look of something that got way bigger way faster than Koenig anticipated, and she obviously didn't consider the potential ramifications of that popularity. I definitely don't think Koenig comes out of the first set of Serial episodes looking at all good, I just don't think there's enough info to suggest literal malice on her part.
I don't know why they didn't use pseudonyms. Seems like that might have helped!
Just kind of surreal how different technology is from even 15 years ago.
Truly an odd set of priorities at the Toyota corporation.
To be fair, those tape deck things are pretty great. Been using one since I started driving in 06.
*cat hissing sound*
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Very, very much yes
No not any more really
I hope we get more vinny/alex though
I like those guys reacting to stuff on a screen.
Not entirely sure I would like to hear them loudly reacting inside my ears for an hour or so, but maybe I'll give them a shot.
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