The Expanse is only realistic in comparison to utopia sci-fi like Star Trek.
Just the basic premise that human civilization survived climate change, formed a United earth government, and colonized the solar system is highly optimistic. It assumes that we will progress.
Realist sci-fi in my book is cyberpunk where humanity is still stuck on our rock struggling with all the basic issues we always have, and technology has changed things but not really made it a better world.
Pessimistic sci-fi assumes we blow ourselves up and people have to live in the Fallout of that.
We still struggle with the same issues we've always had in The Expense. We still have racism, we still have colonial imperialism backed by military strength, we still have wealthy nations exploiting poor ones, we still have the 1% living above the law and corrupt government officials, we still have a powerful military-industrial complex, and we still have multinational corporations trampling human rights and covering it up in the quest for profit.
The Expanse just moved it up in resolution; instead of these problems being intra-earth, they are interstellar between earth, mars, and the belt. And I'd say that's coherent with the growth of humanity. A few centuries ago white europeans were racist against non-white people like the Irish. 50 years ago a catholic US presidential candidate was a religious red-line for voters. Today white europeans count the Irish among them and are racist against middle-eastern refugees, and christian US voters would not blink at voting for a catholic to stop those evil atheist muslims. See? Progress!
Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Colonial tensions lead to the EMCN being spread thin over many systems, not being able to defend Medina and playing hard and fast with keeping it secure.
Still stupid, but believable, and not as mind-numbingingly braindead as "let's completely ignore them for 30 years and not even send a probe through to check if they're telling the truth when they announce a 'diplomatic mission' that has them burning with an obviously huge ship with an unknown drive signature. To the most important strategic position in the known universe that is being protected by a single 30+ years old rail gun position that the protagonists already tricked 30 years ago and two light support shops
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
The book did make it clear they tried to keep tabs on Laconia. But the Laconians were shooting interference noise at the gate so it was impossible to look through and see what was going on, and they had warships stationed by the gate so any probe that got sent in was immediately destroyed. It's unsaid, but a full military assault of Laconia was unthinkable since Duarte had engineered the war precisely so earth, mars, and the belt would blow up each other's militaries while he had a full third (IIRC) of the MCRN intact at his disposal.
The only plothole IMO is that no one looked at the original exploration pictures of Laconia to see the ship construction platforms and the half-completed ship that gave Duarte his idea. Or at least, no one saw them and figured out his plan.
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
The book did make it clear they tried to keep tabs on Laconia. But the Laconians were shooting interference noise at the gate so it was impossible to look through and see what was going on, and they had warships stationed by the gate so any probe that got sent in was immediately destroyed. It's unsaid, but a full military assault of Laconia was unthinkable since Duarte had engineered the war precisely so earth, mars, and the belt would blow up each other's militaries while he had a full third (IIRC) of the MCRN intact at his disposal.
The only plothole IMO is that no one looked at the original exploration pictures of Laconia to see the ship construction platforms and the half-completed ship that gave Duarte his idea. Or at least, no one saw them and figured out his plan.
Still doesn't make sense.
if they're shooting down and jamming, everything they're super obviously trying to hide something. There should be at least a single modern capital ship and its support group ready to reach the gate at a moment's notice.
Oh and, mine the laconia gate while they're at it. And put some rail guns around it. Can't be so expansive if the crew of the roci can afford to mount one.
The defenses available at the start of the book are barely any better then those that a single corvette and water hauler full of scrap ships managed to overwhelm.
Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
Yeah, Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes are definitely meant to be one contiguous story. I'm glad I'm reading them now, and not having to wait years between.
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
Most notably is that Laconia had the last protomolecule sample. I thought it was the Free Navy that grabbed it and I'm unsure if they ever learned that it was handed off to Duarte by the Earth/Mars/Belter/Roci contingent.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
The French army surrendering to the blitzkrieg was not a great narrative moment for the French, as an example.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
Most notably is that Laconia had the last protomolecule sample. I thought it was the Free Navy that grabbed it and I'm unsure if they ever learned that it was handed off to Duarte by the Earth/Mars/Belter/Roci contingent.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
It's only one of the most powerful technologies ever discovered. Nyomi basically told Avasarala she was sure Inaros didn't have it, because he didn't brag about it. He also didn't try using it.
Then you have they mysterious ex-martian benefactors which helped build super advanced rail-guns that were, as per the book, more advanced than what was available to earth/mars.
So it has been knowledge, if not public, but at least for all involved governments, that the laconians have a way to build high tech, probably have the protomolecule, and are obviously trying to hide everything they're doing.
So sure, let's greet them with open arms, what could go wrong.
This was the worst start of any of the books of the series I've read so far. If it goes on as stupid as this, I'm out, and hoping the tv series fixes some of the stupid shit.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
The French army surrendering to the blitzkrieg was not a great narrative moment for the French, as an example.
The french
didn't have a single point to defend, but a whole border
Even if you don't want to go in to the laconian side, it makes no sense not to place some extra defenses pointed at their gate, and even less sense to simply believe "oh, they're surely pushovers now!"
The french didn't underestimate and ignore the germans, they miss-planned.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
In fact Holden makes a speech to the effect of that at the end of Babylon's Ashes. Sol did not seek sovereignity over Ring space or the colonies.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
Doesn't make sense.
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
Most notably is that Laconia had the last protomolecule sample. I thought it was the Free Navy that grabbed it and I'm unsure if they ever learned that it was handed off to Duarte by the Earth/Mars/Belter/Roci contingent.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
The other major point:
Knowing that Laconia had a state-of-the-art military after 30 years. The planet of Laconia was a barely-settled world when Duarte's forces got to it. His ships were state-of-the-art when he stole them, but there were no spacedocks at Laconia, no factories, no high-tech manufacturing sector, no way to maintain those ships save for whatever spare parts they had stockpiled before leaving Sol. After 30 years, everyone expected Laconia's fleet to be down to a handful of poorly-maintained and barely-functional ships 30 years out of date. Something the existing rail guns at Medina would easily be able to dispose of without breaking a sweat should they fly through the gate with belligerent intent.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all), much less that he'd managed to retro-engineer it into a command interface for alien technology, much less that he'd manage to reactivate the alien construction platforms (it doesn't seem anyone even realized they were there) and use them to build invincible alien warships. That's not the characters being stupid, that's them not expecting an extremely unlikely sequence of events.
Also, as was pointed out, all the defenses you suggest Medina should have had (1) would make no sense to be there given the way the political situation had evolved between Earth, Mars, the Belt and the colonies over 30 years, and (2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
Most notably is that Laconia had the last protomolecule sample. I thought it was the Free Navy that grabbed it and I'm unsure if they ever learned that it was handed off to Duarte by the Earth/Mars/Belter/Roci contingent.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
The other major point:
Knowing that Laconia had a state-of-the-art military after 30 years. The planet of Laconia was a barely-settled world when Duarte's forces got to it. His ships were state-of-the-art when he stole them, but there were no spacedocks at Laconia, no factories, no high-tech manufacturing sector, no way to maintain those ships save for whatever spare parts they had stockpiled before leaving Sol. After 30 years, everyone expected Laconia's fleet to be down to a handful of poorly-maintained and barely-functional ships 30 years out of date. Something the existing rail guns at Medina would easily be able to dispose of without breaking a sweat should they fly through the gate with belligerent intent.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all), much less that he'd managed to retro-engineer it into a command interface for alien technology, much less that he'd manage to reactivate the alien construction platforms (it doesn't seem anyone even realized they were there) and use them to build invincible alien warships. That's not the characters being stupid, that's them not expecting an extremely unlikely sequence of events.
Also, as was pointed out, all the defenses you suggest Medina should have had (1) would make no sense to be there given the way the political situation had evolved between Earth, Mars, the Belt and the colonies over 30 years, and (2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
The rail guns at medina couldn't even deal with the roci and a few thousand scrappers. The laconians build them. Why should they not be able to take it over with a third of the then-strong martian fleet?
A fleet that wasn't much older than the railguns itself, too!
Yeah I get that we see the "old roci" in the beginning and it's supposed to make us feel with those who expect the laconian fleet to be old and derelict.
But WE currently have ships with service lives of 50 years, and even commercial planes have a service life of 30 years. And space ships that don't land don't get pressurization cycles like planes do, and are MUCH more expensive to build, so should have a much longer expected service life.
And they took life stock and whatever to start a colony anways, so they were obviously not going with just the ships, but at least some infrastructure to maintain them
So that doesn't make sense either.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all)
Naomi explicitly told Avasarala that Inaros didn't have it. I hope this book doesn't make Avasarala so stupid in retrospect to just ignore it.
(2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
But it would make the story not be stupid. Isn't that worth it?
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
Doesn't make sense.
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere. Most of the colonies are not self-sufficient and what few ships they have are transports they use to send out what they produce and bring in what they need to survive. None of these are in any position to police the Laconia gate.
The only power that could conceivably police the gate is the Transport Union, and the beginning of Persepolis is precisely the TU President chastising Holden for trying to police the Libertarian planet, because that is not what the TU is meant to do and they are not setup nor equipped to do it.
Not to mention that, as you pointed out, Medina is the center of power for the TU. Having Earth or Mars (the Belt's former oppressors) station a war fleet next to it "to police Laconia" is the last thing the TU would want to allow.
+1
Options
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Of all the complaints, the one that's wild to me is
not putting bombs on a Ring. After the slowdown catastrophe? Fuck that. The Investigator said he permanently shut down the security system, but I ain't taking that guy's word for it.
They had finally figured out the Ring overload problem with ships "going dutchman" as they end up calling it. Laconia Gate had railguns pointed at it, and with the transit limit they could feel fairly sure they'd have the numbers of potential transits covered. The idea that one ship could come through, tank the railguns and use such overwhelming force to take Medina is inconceivable.
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
Most notably is that Laconia had the last protomolecule sample. I thought it was the Free Navy that grabbed it and I'm unsure if they ever learned that it was handed off to Duarte by the Earth/Mars/Belter/Roci contingent.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
The other major point:
Knowing that Laconia had a state-of-the-art military after 30 years. The planet of Laconia was a barely-settled world when Duarte's forces got to it. His ships were state-of-the-art when he stole them, but there were no spacedocks at Laconia, no factories, no high-tech manufacturing sector, no way to maintain those ships save for whatever spare parts they had stockpiled before leaving Sol. After 30 years, everyone expected Laconia's fleet to be down to a handful of poorly-maintained and barely-functional ships 30 years out of date. Something the existing rail guns at Medina would easily be able to dispose of without breaking a sweat should they fly through the gate with belligerent intent.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all), much less that he'd managed to retro-engineer it into a command interface for alien technology, much less that he'd manage to reactivate the alien construction platforms (it doesn't seem anyone even realized they were there) and use them to build invincible alien warships. That's not the characters being stupid, that's them not expecting an extremely unlikely sequence of events.
Also, as was pointed out, all the defenses you suggest Medina should have had (1) would make no sense to be there given the way the political situation had evolved between Earth, Mars, the Belt and the colonies over 30 years, and (2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
The rail guns at medina couldn't even deal with the roci and a few thousand scrappers. The laconians build them. Why should they not be able to take it over with a third of the then-strong martian fleet?
A fleet that wasn't much older than the railguns itself, too!
Yeah I get that we see the "old roci" in the beginning and it's supposed to make us feel with those who expect the laconian fleet to be old and derelict.
But WE currently have ships with service lives of 50 years, and even commercial planes have a service life of 30 years. And space ships that don't land don't get pressurization cycles like planes do, and are MUCH more expensive to build, so should have a much longer expected service life.
And they took life stock and whatever to start a colony anways, so they were obviously not going with just the ships, but at least some infrastructure to maintain them
So that doesn't make sense either.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all)
Naomi explicitly told Avasarala that Inaros didn't have it. I hope this book doesn't make Avasarala so stupid in retrospect to just ignore it.
(2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
But it would make the story not be stupid. Isn't that worth it?
Avasarala is trying to save billions of displaced and starving people after the worst environmental disaster in the history of humanity. She does not have two shits to give to whether Duarte has stolen the protomolecule or why. The protomolecule is dangerous, yes, but so long as it's gone, it's not a danger she has to deal with, compared to the actual unprecedented humanitarian crisis on her hands that she is solely in charge of solving.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
Doesn't make sense.
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere. Most of the colonies are not self-sufficient and what few ships they have are transports they use to send out what they produce and bring in what they need to survive. None of these are in any position to police the Laconia gate.
The only power that could conceivably police the gate is the Transport Union, and the beginning of Persepolis is precisely the TU President chastising Holden for trying to police the Libertarian planet, because that is not what the TU is meant to do and they are not setup nor equipped to do it.
Not to mention that, as you pointed out, Medina is the center of power for the TU. Having Earth or Mars (the Belt's former oppressors) station a war fleet next to it "to police Laconia" is the last thing the TU would want to allow.
So, station NOTHING next to it, because what could go wrong?
Well, that's exactly what I've been saying: It's stupid, and it's stupid because the Author didn't imagine a way to make the story work that is not stupid.
Hell, give the laconians a way to temporarily close their own gate with a McGuffin! Then at least the whole sitting around ignoring it doesn't feel stupid.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere.
The book explicitly says the combined fleet is back to old martian strength, which had like 12 donnager class ships plus a whole load of support ships.
So yeah, things were bad, but the EMCN is obviously not a pushover anymore.
Of all the complaints, the one that's wild to me is
not putting bombs on a Ring. After the slowdown catastrophe? Fuck that. The Investigator said he permanently shut down the security system, but I ain't taking that guy's word for it.
They had finally figured out the Ring overload problem with ships "going dutchman" as they end up calling it. Laconia Gate had railguns pointed at it, and with the transit limit they could feel fairly sure they'd have the numbers of potential transits covered. The idea that one ship could come through, tank the railguns and use such overwhelming force to take Medina is inconceivable.
But
they let them through!! Without even checking?? That's... ugh... Absolutely inconceivable.
And the railguns would be useless for the dutchman solution, since the books make clear the thing going through needs a power signature. Plus, this is mentioned nowhere in the story, so it's just a retcon..
Persepolis Rising and Tiamat's Wrath would be better as a single book, because Persepolis Rising by itself feels like the first half of one story. By itself it is unresolved and depressing.
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
keeping tabs on laconia should very obviously have been a major thing to do. Especially since Medina Station is so damn important. Like..
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Two things:
1) They know they wanted to found their own Galt's Gulch colony, that was what the distraction and stealing a military was for. That they were wildly successful because they were all on board with fucking with protomolecule tech wasn't known and you wouldn't know by peeking through the ring gate.
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
the laconians took the only protomolecule sample, too! Everyone remembers what that thing can do to a station! It makes even less sense they didn't prepare for them attacking. Hell, they could've grown some chickens infected them with the protomolecule, gathered some protomolecule ooze and put it on torpedos. Torpedoes that can infect any station or planet. And yeah, obviously they couldn't afford it right at the start after the rocks fell, but the book starts with telling us that things are going well and back to normal, and the EMCN combined being pretty strong. They should be able to put some defense on the most important bridge in all of human history. And because they didn't, they are too stupid to live.
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
Most notably is that Laconia had the last protomolecule sample. I thought it was the Free Navy that grabbed it and I'm unsure if they ever learned that it was handed off to Duarte by the Earth/Mars/Belter/Roci contingent.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
The other major point:
Knowing that Laconia had a state-of-the-art military after 30 years. The planet of Laconia was a barely-settled world when Duarte's forces got to it. His ships were state-of-the-art when he stole them, but there were no spacedocks at Laconia, no factories, no high-tech manufacturing sector, no way to maintain those ships save for whatever spare parts they had stockpiled before leaving Sol. After 30 years, everyone expected Laconia's fleet to be down to a handful of poorly-maintained and barely-functional ships 30 years out of date. Something the existing rail guns at Medina would easily be able to dispose of without breaking a sweat should they fly through the gate with belligerent intent.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all), much less that he'd managed to retro-engineer it into a command interface for alien technology, much less that he'd manage to reactivate the alien construction platforms (it doesn't seem anyone even realized they were there) and use them to build invincible alien warships. That's not the characters being stupid, that's them not expecting an extremely unlikely sequence of events.
Also, as was pointed out, all the defenses you suggest Medina should have had (1) would make no sense to be there given the way the political situation had evolved between Earth, Mars, the Belt and the colonies over 30 years, and (2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
The rail guns at medina couldn't even deal with the roci and a few thousand scrappers. The laconians build them. Why should they not be able to take it over with a third of the then-strong martian fleet?
A fleet that wasn't much older than the railguns itself, too!
Yeah I get that we see the "old roci" in the beginning and it's supposed to make us feel with those who expect the laconian fleet to be old and derelict.
But WE currently have ships with service lives of 50 years, and even commercial planes have a service life of 30 years. And space ships that don't land don't get pressurization cycles like planes do, and are MUCH more expensive to build, so should have a much longer expected service life.
And they took life stock and whatever to start a colony anways, so they were obviously not going with just the ships, but at least some infrastructure to maintain them
So that doesn't make sense either.
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all)
Naomi explicitly told Avasarala that Inaros didn't have it. I hope this book doesn't make Avasarala so stupid in retrospect to just ignore it.
(2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
But it would make the story not be stupid. Isn't that worth it?
Avasarala is trying to save billions of displaced and starving people after the worst environmental disaster in the history of humanity. She does not have two shits to give to whether Duarte has stolen the protomolecule or why. The protomolecule is dangerous, yes, but so long as it's gone, it's not a danger she has to deal with, compared to the actual unprecedented humanitarian crisis on her hands that she is solely in charge of solving.
Two
undetectable stealth torpedos with protomatter would be enough to kill mars and earth. If Avasarala ignored this, she also suddenly became stupid.
Especially now, 30 years after. Like I said, it makes sense that they weren't able to police the gate a few years after the rock drops.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
Doesn't make sense.
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere. Most of the colonies are not self-sufficient and what few ships they have are transports they use to send out what they produce and bring in what they need to survive. None of these are in any position to police the Laconia gate.
The only power that could conceivably police the gate is the Transport Union, and the beginning of Persepolis is precisely the TU President chastising Holden for trying to police the Libertarian planet, because that is not what the TU is meant to do and they are not setup nor equipped to do it.
Not to mention that, as you pointed out, Medina is the center of power for the TU. Having Earth or Mars (the Belt's former oppressors) station a war fleet next to it "to police Laconia" is the last thing the TU would want to allow.
So, station NOTHING next to it, because what could go wrong?
Well, that's exactly what I've been saying: It's stupid, and it's stupid because the Author didn't imagine a way to make the story work that is not stupid.
Hell, give the laconians a way to temporarily close their own gate with a McGuffin! Then at least the whole sitting around ignoring it doesn't feel stupid.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere.
The book explicitly says the combined fleet is back to old martian strength, which had like 12 donnager class ships plus a whole load of support ships.
So yeah, things were bad, but the EMCN is obviously not a pushover anymore.
I don't remember a discussion of fleet strengths, but
If the combined fleet is equal to the old martian fleet, then they've fallen from high. That means Earth + Mars + Transit Union is equal to just Mars before. And that combination includes the TU's city-ships that are fucking powerful. So Mars alone in this equation is not worth much.
Of all the complaints, the one that's wild to me is
not putting bombs on a Ring. After the slowdown catastrophe? Fuck that. The Investigator said he permanently shut down the security system, but I ain't taking that guy's word for it.
They had finally figured out the Ring overload problem with ships "going dutchman" as they end up calling it. Laconia Gate had railguns pointed at it, and with the transit limit they could feel fairly sure they'd have the numbers of potential transits covered. The idea that one ship could come through, tank the railguns and use such overwhelming force to take Medina is inconceivable.
Plus,
Bobby exploded a fusion reactor on the slow zone control station and literally nothing happened..
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
Doesn't make sense.
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere. Most of the colonies are not self-sufficient and what few ships they have are transports they use to send out what they produce and bring in what they need to survive. None of these are in any position to police the Laconia gate.
The only power that could conceivably police the gate is the Transport Union, and the beginning of Persepolis is precisely the TU President chastising Holden for trying to police the Libertarian planet, because that is not what the TU is meant to do and they are not setup nor equipped to do it.
Not to mention that, as you pointed out, Medina is the center of power for the TU. Having Earth or Mars (the Belt's former oppressors) station a war fleet next to it "to police Laconia" is the last thing the TU would want to allow.
So, station NOTHING next to it, because what could go wrong?
Well, that's exactly what I've been saying: It's stupid, and it's stupid because the Author didn't imagine a way to make the story work that is not stupid.
Hell, give the laconians a way to temporarily close their own gate with a McGuffin! Then at least the whole sitting around ignoring it doesn't feel stupid.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere.
The book explicitly says the combined fleet is back to old martian strength, which had like 12 donnager class ships plus a whole load of support ships.
So yeah, things were bad, but the EMCN is obviously not a pushover anymore.
I don't remember a discussion of fleet strengths, but
If the combined fleet is equal to the old martian fleet, then they've fallen from high. That means Earth + Mars + Transit Union is equal to just Mars before. And that combination includes the TU's city-ships that are fucking powerful. So Mars alone in this equation is not worth much.
So, not enough that someone, anyone, gets the idea to defend the most important strategic position in the universe against the people who helped kill 10-15 billion people? Is that really convincing you?
the start of the story from the first few pages. As soon as they had described the situation on Laconia as "fascist utopia" and the situation around the roci as a laid back bureaucracy, I could've told you the next 70 or so pages without thinking.
Let me guess the rest:
Everyone falls in line under the fascists/oppressors/terrorists because of their awesome McGuffin
But just when everything is bleakest, the McGuffin turns out to be EEEVIL, and it's back to a fight for survival of the planet/human race/universe that is ended by the crew of the roci, but not without heavy sacrifice and with a bitter-sweet ending
Because this has basically been every story in the books so far, if I think about it..
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
That was an unresolved issue at that point in Persepolis Rising.
The Transport Union controlled Medina as a neutral party. It was trying to avoid becoming an armed, soveign entity, but at the begining of the story the conflict between it's duties and it's need for enforcement was becoming clear.
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
It's basically the same story as before
"Oh everyone is too distracted! All kinds of shit can happen, like building a clandestine fleet that is able to control the solar system and destroy earth!"
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
No?
The laconians could still be hiding. Medina station could be totally defended. But..
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
Well there is the issue that would cause.
Anyone trying to build up forces in the Ring space would have caused an galactic war or rebellion against the Sol system. It was a pretty delicate political situation. The Transport Union did not want to be in sovereign control of the colonies nor threaten them with force.
Doesn't make sense.
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere. Most of the colonies are not self-sufficient and what few ships they have are transports they use to send out what they produce and bring in what they need to survive. None of these are in any position to police the Laconia gate.
The only power that could conceivably police the gate is the Transport Union, and the beginning of Persepolis is precisely the TU President chastising Holden for trying to police the Libertarian planet, because that is not what the TU is meant to do and they are not setup nor equipped to do it.
Not to mention that, as you pointed out, Medina is the center of power for the TU. Having Earth or Mars (the Belt's former oppressors) station a war fleet next to it "to police Laconia" is the last thing the TU would want to allow.
So, station NOTHING next to it, because what could go wrong?
Well, that's exactly what I've been saying: It's stupid, and it's stupid because the Author didn't imagine a way to make the story work that is not stupid.
Hell, give the laconians a way to temporarily close their own gate with a McGuffin! Then at least the whole sitting around ignoring it doesn't feel stupid.
Sol just barely managed to get up after 30 years. Mars is still collapsing from everyone leaving to colonize elsewhere.
The book explicitly says the combined fleet is back to old martian strength, which had like 12 donnager class ships plus a whole load of support ships.
So yeah, things were bad, but the EMCN is obviously not a pushover anymore.
I don't remember a discussion of fleet strengths, but
If the combined fleet is equal to the old martian fleet, then they've fallen from high. That means Earth + Mars + Transit Union is equal to just Mars before. And that combination includes the TU's city-ships that are fucking powerful. So Mars alone in this equation is not worth much.
EMCN is the Earth Mars Coalition Navy. So, just the earth mars warships are back at old mars strenght, and the belt isn't even in the equation
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
A colony that was still, after 30 years, jamming and destroying everything that was going through their gate? That's raising nooo suspicion. Nope, nothing to see here.
the start of the story from the first few pages. As soon as they had described the situation on Laconia as "fascist utopia" and the situation around the roci as a laid back bureaucracy, I could've told you the next 70 or so pages without thinking.
Let me guess the rest:
Everyone falls in line under the fascists/oppressors/terrorists because of their awesome McGuffin
But just when everything is bleakest, the McGuffin turns out to be EEEVIL, and it's back to a fight for survival of the planet/human race/universe that is ended by the crew of the roci, but not without heavy sacrifice and with a bitter-sweet ending
Because this has basically been every story in the books so far, if I think about it..
the start of the story from the first few pages. As soon as they had described the situation on Laconia as "fascist utopia" and the situation around the roci as a laid back bureaucracy, I could've told you the next 70 or so pages without thinking.
Let me guess the rest:
Everyone falls in line under the fascists/oppressors/terrorists because of their awesome McGuffin
But just when everything is bleakest, the McGuffin turns out to be EEEVIL, and it's back to a fight for survival of the planet/human race/universe that is ended by the crew of the roci, but not without heavy sacrifice and with a bitter-sweet ending
Because this has basically been every story in the books so far, if I think about it..
Hahahahahaha nope
Does it simply cut off the end, and stay bleak, then?
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
Really the best analogy for them really feels like those survivalists who fuck off into the deep woods with a bunch of guns and shit and generally just stay to themselves. Sure, that's probably not good. Sure, in a perfect world we'd probably do something about it but so long as they stay out in the deep woods of bum fuck nowhere? Not gonna get resources when folks are starving out here who aren't being anti-social assholes. The idiots will come out when they run out of diesel or antibiotics or something.
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
Really the best analogy for them really feels like those survivalists who fuck off into the deep woods with a bunch of guns and shit and generally just stay to themselves. Sure, that's probably not good. Sure, in a perfect world we'd probably do something about it but so long as they stay out in the deep woods of bum fuck nowhere? Not gonna get resources when folks are starving out here who aren't being anti-social assholes. The idiots will come out when they run out of diesel or antibiotics or something.
And if these survivalists nuked the country and took a third of the combined US military with them to bumfuck, nowhere, do you think they'd still be ignored?
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
A colony that was still, after 30 years, jamming and destroying everything that was going through their gate? That's raising nooo suspicion. Nope, nothing to see here.
Being able to hold a bottleneck isn't particularly suspicious. And not worth the trouble to keep bothering with since nothing anyone had could get past the TU's defenses.
If it wasn't for the protomolecule and other stuff on that side of the ring they'd be no different from every other colony beyond having a good defense.
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
Really the best analogy for them really feels like those survivalists who fuck off into the deep woods with a bunch of guns and shit and generally just stay to themselves. Sure, that's probably not good. Sure, in a perfect world we'd probably do something about it but so long as they stay out in the deep woods of bum fuck nowhere? Not gonna get resources when folks are starving out here who aren't being anti-social assholes. The idiots will come out when they run out of diesel or antibiotics or something.
And if these survivalists nuked the country and took a third of the combined US military with them to bumfuck, nowhere, do you think they'd still be ignored?
By one of America's rivals? With a long history of being screwed over by America? That's become the major super power because of that nuking?
And is literally immune to being nuked itself?
Yeah probably.
They stole a system that, as far as anyone knew, wasn't particularly special. With the Trade Union's central point they didn't need to be up on the gate. They could hold down any of them with their guns, missiles, and gun boats given the known tech of the time.
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
Really the best analogy for them really feels like those survivalists who fuck off into the deep woods with a bunch of guns and shit and generally just stay to themselves. Sure, that's probably not good. Sure, in a perfect world we'd probably do something about it but so long as they stay out in the deep woods of bum fuck nowhere? Not gonna get resources when folks are starving out here who aren't being anti-social assholes. The idiots will come out when they run out of diesel or antibiotics or something.
And if these survivalists nuked the country and took a third of the combined US military with them to bumfuck, nowhere, do you think they'd still be ignored?
By one of America's rivals that's become the major super power because of that nuking?
And is literally immune to being nuked itself?
Yeah probably.
that's not the situation though. they didn't not do anything because they were afraid, they ignored them from the start, and didn't even try to find out what's going on when the were 5 days from coming through the gate
Posts
We still struggle with the same issues we've always had in The Expense. We still have racism, we still have colonial imperialism backed by military strength, we still have wealthy nations exploiting poor ones, we still have the 1% living above the law and corrupt government officials, we still have a powerful military-industrial complex, and we still have multinational corporations trampling human rights and covering it up in the quest for profit.
The Expanse just moved it up in resolution; instead of these problems being intra-earth, they are interstellar between earth, mars, and the belt. And I'd say that's coherent with the growth of humanity. A few centuries ago white europeans were racist against non-white people like the Irish. 50 years ago a catholic US presidential candidate was a religious red-line for voters. Today white europeans count the Irish among them and are racist against middle-eastern refugees, and christian US voters would not blink at voting for a catholic to stop those evil atheist muslims. See? Progress!
Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes had that same issue for me.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I mean... The start so far is just stuuuuuuupid as hell. It screams of an author not having an idea how to start a story.
What the hell? It makes noooo sense at all. None. ZILCH. This is the power that stole a third of the Martian navy, and obviously helped orchestrate the rock drops as a distraction.
Finding ouf what the distraction was for should be absolutely on the top of everyone's agenda
So far it's not depressing, just stupid as hell. I hate storyies resorting to "too stupid to live" Characters. Kills any love I have for a story instantly.
Still stupid, but believable, and not as mind-numbingingly braindead as "let's completely ignore them for 30 years and not even send a probe through to check if they're telling the truth when they announce a 'diplomatic mission' that has them burning with an obviously huge ship with an unknown drive signature. To the most important strategic position in the known universe that is being protected by a single 30+ years old rail gun position that the protagonists already tricked 30 years ago and two light support shops
Oof.
The only plothole IMO is that no one looked at the original exploration pictures of Laconia to see the ship construction platforms and the half-completed ship that gave Duarte his idea. Or at least, no one saw them and figured out his plan.
Two things:
2) The military extremists don't want contact and had military stationed at the gate to jam signals and blow up shit that comes through.
The path you're saying is obvious, is actually war when Earth and maybe the system just got completely fucked. Nevermind it'd be a war with huge ass supply lines against hardened foes and if you win? You get nothing. Just a world that's barely been settled.
Once that first year passed with just leaving the Laconia folks alone in their little fucking corner then that tradition hardened. Medina felt safe with their rail gun array and it would have been fine without proto-magical-molecule bullshit. If anything, it's a bit silly that the Earth/Sol/Colony side hasn't had some magic tech expansions in those twenty years.
Still doesn't make sense.
Oh and, mine the laconia gate while they're at it. And put some rail guns around it. Can't be so expansive if the crew of the roci can afford to mount one.
The defenses available at the start of the book are barely any better then those that a single corvette and water hauler full of scrap ships managed to overwhelm.
Yeah, Nemesis Games and Babylon's Ashes are definitely meant to be one contiguous story. I'm glad I'm reading them now, and not having to wait years between.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Especially since
Maybe if the Laconians had attacked a decade later, the Transport Union would have been better armed in Ring space to enforce it's monopoly, but it wouldn't have mattered since the Laconia ships are almost immune to their weapons.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I'd have to go and double check but you seem to be assuming perfect knowledge of what book readers know. Various factions didn't know all the details of who went where with what.
There are some other things where I think you are doing the same thing but that is the clearest.
It's basically the same story as before
Only this time it's "Oh everyone is too distracted to keep watch on those responsible at least helping the rock droppers, if not planning it themselves!"
I really wish the books were more Scifi, and less game of thrones in space.
Well at some point someone needs to make a miscalculation in order for the opportunity for conflict to appear.
The French army surrendering to the blitzkrieg was not a great narrative moment for the French, as an example.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Then you have they mysterious ex-martian benefactors which helped build super advanced rail-guns that were, as per the book, more advanced than what was available to earth/mars.
So it has been knowledge, if not public, but at least for all involved governments, that the laconians have a way to build high tech, probably have the protomolecule, and are obviously trying to hide everything they're doing.
So sure, let's greet them with open arms, what could go wrong.
This was the worst start of any of the books of the series I've read so far. If it goes on as stupid as this, I'm out, and hoping the tv series fixes some of the stupid shit.
No?
The writers are giving the laconians a weapon that is close to the power of a black hole (controlled neutron star level magnetic fields) and half-acts like an EMP, so they're clearly okay with McGuffins.
Why not have the gate properly defended, earth and mars not be stupid, and the Laconians still taking it with their new ships?
The french
Even if you don't want to go in to the laconian side, it makes no sense not to place some extra defenses pointed at their gate, and even less sense to simply believe "oh, they're surely pushovers now!"
The french didn't underestimate and ignore the germans, they miss-planned.
Well there is the issue that would cause.
In fact Holden makes a speech to the effect of that at the end of Babylon's Ashes. Sol did not seek sovereignity over Ring space or the colonies.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Sol System should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate itself, because they are responsible for the rocks.
Mars should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because the laconians are, to them, the worst of the worst traitors and deserve death for it
And lastly, the Belters should be pushing for the ability to police the laconian gate because it's literally threatening the center of their power, their whole reason for existing
Wait, even the new colonies should be pushing for policing the gate, because they don't want random warships to appear at their new colonies, or someone dropping rocks on them after taking the gate
Absolutely no one should be content with just leaving it there. In the face of such danger, ESPECIALLY after what had just happened, having a combined police force should be a total no-brainer.
It's the only topic all of them should be 100% on the same page about.
The other major point:
No one knew Duarte had stolen the protomolecule (at best Naomi suspected the Free Navy didn't have it, but that's all), much less that he'd managed to retro-engineer it into a command interface for alien technology, much less that he'd manage to reactivate the alien construction platforms (it doesn't seem anyone even realized they were there) and use them to build invincible alien warships. That's not the characters being stupid, that's them not expecting an extremely unlikely sequence of events.
Also, as was pointed out, all the defenses you suggest Medina should have had (1) would make no sense to be there given the way the political situation had evolved between Earth, Mars, the Belt and the colonies over 30 years, and (2) would not have made a single bit of difference for the story, given what Laconia has.
A fleet that wasn't much older than the railguns itself, too!
Yeah I get that we see the "old roci" in the beginning and it's supposed to make us feel with those who expect the laconian fleet to be old and derelict.
But WE currently have ships with service lives of 50 years, and even commercial planes have a service life of 30 years. And space ships that don't land don't get pressurization cycles like planes do, and are MUCH more expensive to build, so should have a much longer expected service life.
And they took life stock and whatever to start a colony anways, so they were obviously not going with just the ships, but at least some infrastructure to maintain them
So that doesn't make sense either.
Naomi explicitly told Avasarala that Inaros didn't have it. I hope this book doesn't make Avasarala so stupid in retrospect to just ignore it.
But it would make the story not be stupid. Isn't that worth it?
The only power that could conceivably police the gate is the Transport Union, and the beginning of Persepolis is precisely the TU President chastising Holden for trying to police the Libertarian planet, because that is not what the TU is meant to do and they are not setup nor equipped to do it.
Not to mention that, as you pointed out, Medina is the center of power for the TU. Having Earth or Mars (the Belt's former oppressors) station a war fleet next to it "to police Laconia" is the last thing the TU would want to allow.
They had finally figured out the Ring overload problem with ships "going dutchman" as they end up calling it. Laconia Gate had railguns pointed at it, and with the transit limit they could feel fairly sure they'd have the numbers of potential transits covered. The idea that one ship could come through, tank the railguns and use such overwhelming force to take Medina is inconceivable.
Well, that's exactly what I've been saying: It's stupid, and it's stupid because the Author didn't imagine a way to make the story work that is not stupid.
Hell, give the laconians a way to temporarily close their own gate with a McGuffin! Then at least the whole sitting around ignoring it doesn't feel stupid.
The book explicitly says the combined fleet is back to old martian strength, which had like 12 donnager class ships plus a whole load of support ships.
So yeah, things were bad, but the EMCN is obviously not a pushover anymore.
But
And the railguns would be useless for the dutchman solution, since the books make clear the thing going through needs a power signature. Plus, this is mentioned nowhere in the story, so it's just a retcon..
Two
Especially now, 30 years after. Like I said, it makes sense that they weren't able to police the gate a few years after the rock drops.
But now? Not convincing me at all.
I don't remember a discussion of fleet strengths, but
Plus,
Let me guess the rest:
Everyone falls in line under the fascists/oppressors/terrorists because of their awesome McGuffin
But just when everything is bleakest, the McGuffin turns out to be EEEVIL, and it's back to a fight for survival of the planet/human race/universe that is ended by the crew of the roci, but not without heavy sacrifice and with a bitter-sweet ending
Because this has basically been every story in the books so far, if I think about it..
The vast majority of new colonies were still barely scraping by even with decades of assistance. The worst any were attempting up to that point was illegal runs hoping not to get noticed.
After all those years and the general disdain Belters had for Inners, I think it's entirely reasonable the Trade Union just didn't care about a colony with out of date tech that wasn't bothering anyone.
Hahahahahaha nope
If it wasn't for the protomolecule and other stuff on that side of the ring they'd be no different from every other colony beyond having a good defense.
And is literally immune to being nuked itself?
Yeah probably.
that's just criminal negligence.