[Destiny] Ours is the Light that illuminates the Dark Below! Hard Mode Crota's End awaits!

minor incident

Also, I tend to think Fatebringer and Vision of Confluence were sort of outliers in that they were so good either one could reasonably be called the best gun in the game. I think Bungie wants raid weapons to be really good, but not to necessarily outshine exotics. I can see myself using Abyss Defiant for a good while, but I doubt I'll be quite as bothered when it finally gets outpaced with expansions as I will with VoC.

localhjay

The majn advantage of the Gjallerharrrn is the Wolf pack rounds. They do additional damage to Crota and they pretty much never miss.

minor incident

And finally, one more thought about Abyss Defiant / expansion weapons: I really hope this signals that Bungie might introduce more weapons with significant features that can toggle. Abyss Defiant and Murmur are both so cool because you can switch abilities and customize them to your liking more so than just choosing a scope/ballistic style.

MonkeyConQueso

If anyone wants to do VoG HM or CE NM/HM any time today, let me know! I'm fiddling around with stuff outside of Destiny, so just @ me here.

Douglas

I would like to the vault and crota this weekend!

metaghost

@MonkeyConQueso — I'm ready and able for any and all; definitely interested in trying out Crota HM, but happy doing whatever.

skyknyt

metaghost wrote: »

@MonkeyConQueso — I'm ready and able for any and all; definitely interested in trying out Crota HM, but happy doing whatever.

Same

DodgeBlan

I'm also down for croutons

I've got a NM crota checkpoint so we can kick the big guy over and then do at least abyss and bridge in HM.

I'll shoot for 5pm Central and see if I can get a group going then.

Cilla Black

I could definitely use HM abyss and bridge and would be happy to help with normal

I'm only 31 though, so I don't know how useful I'd be in a HM Crota proper, unless you just want an extra lower powered gjallarhorn

MonkeyConQueso

I'll be in Destiny here in a bit - got sidetracked with a sick wife and making food stuff. See you guardians on in 15ish!

Qanamil

Cilla Black wrote: »

I could definitely use HM abyss and bridge and would be happy to help with normal

I'm only 31 though, so I don't know how useful I'd be in a HM Crota proper, unless you just want an extra lower powered gjallarhorn

For the abyss at least, 31 isn't too big of a deal. It's mostly 'don't look back, faster faster, must go faster' until the end when you stand on a rock or go invisible.

Squeeze

MonkeyConQueso wrote: »

If anyone wants to do VoG HM or CE NM/HM any time today, let me know! I'm fiddling around with stuff outside of Destiny, so just @ me here.

I think my Warlock needs a HM Atheon kill and my Titan(?) could do HM Vault. I'm pretty much done what I can for Crota on the week (Don't want to saddle a raid with my 31s on HM Crota kill.), but I can bring my Titan along to drop bubbles and fire Ghallazelle if that makes it easier on a few folks. Edit: Titan is 32 and has already killed Crota HM. I meant I could bring him along just to help.

Shadowfire

Squeeze wrote: »

finally got a Monte Carlo. Always wanted one because of how amazing it looks. However, I am loving it's performance as well! Stable, crazy rate of fire, and the RANGE. How is this not a more loved weapon?

I love my Monte Carlo, and I've been a big proponent of it even before it was buffed. I've found three really great ways to use it, one on each class. With hunters, you never run out of throwing knives. Warlock, you keep your over shield up forever. And titans, there is the ability that makes Storm Fist recharge your special faster.

Even better, the Monte Carlo lets you max out discipline and intelligence while keeping strength at 0 and all having rapid recharge.

MonkeyConQueso

How does 6PM EST for raiding sound?

@Squeeze
@Cilla Black
@DodgeBlan
@skyknyt
@metaghost
@DouglasDanger
(If everyone can come, then we'll just need someone to be nice and step out. I didn't want to just omit someone)

Douglas

That might work for me, depending on how it goes hanging this print.

My hunter is LL 31.

skyknyt

Sounds good to me.

metaghost

Thumbs up over here.

DodgeBlan

you have my horn

NerfThatMan

Anyone wanna do the weekly PS4 side? Or nightfall? Or both!?

MonkeyConQueso

metaghost wrote: »

Thumbs up over here.

@metaghost what was your PSN again?

metaghost

MonkeyConQueso wrote: »

metaghost wrote: »

Thumbs up over here.

@metaghost what was your PSN again?

Mugen_Kikaider, just signed on now.

shoeboxjeddy

Hiryu02 wrote: »

Hunger of Crota is a normal mode drop.

? I know that of course (I got three of them during our normal runs after all...). We were talking about Abyss Defiant.

minor incident wrote: »

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

minor incident wrote: »

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

Forever Zefiro wrote: »

Still haven't beat Crota himself on hard

Did get the Crota Auto Rifle though, so that's neat I guess, it at least has more than a hair's width of Impact

Hunger of Crota is Diet Gjallarhorn, it seems Abyss Defiant may be intended to be Diet Suros. No idea why Bungie thinks making the rare drops clearly inferior to the store purchased, or commonly dropped Exotics is such a great idea...

I'm curious why you think a legendary should be better in every way than an exotic? Abyss Defiant makes a pretty good case against Suros Regime, though, for the record. It fires a bit faster and has solar damage to make up for the half empty perks.

As for drop rates and rarity? I've gotten one Suros and one Gjallarhorn, both as drops. And I have 500+ hours of playtime. In contrast I have 3 Abyss Defiants and would have 4 Hunger of Crota's, if I hadn't sharded two of them.

I never said better in "every" way actually. Hunger of Crota is inferior to Gjallarhorn in damage and tracking, any minor areas it is better seem to pale in comparison. Abyss may measure up to Suros in some ways, but it has some problems.

1) Only drops in Hard Raid level 33, putting it out of reach for many (this is what I meant by rare).
2) Upgrades off of equally rare Radiant Energies, which could be used in trade for important Radiant Shards instead.
3) Damage overall appears to be lower.
4) Lacks the healing perk so useful in the Raid where you actually get it from.

Suros is certainly rare, BUT there's been at least two opportunities to buy one and it can drop any given week in the Nightfall (three chances PER week) or from either Raid, either difficulty OR (more rarely) from any Purple Engram OR as a Lucky Drop from ANY Strike or ANY Crucible Round. I would say something you can only do maximum three times a week WITH max leveled characters since the middle of THIS month is more arduous than something you could have received since launch in a dozen ways.

A couple of points:

There is only one "Tracking." Gjallarhorn doesn't track better than other tracking rocket launchers. Truth being the only exception.

Each of those exotic chances is a small chance for AN exotic to drop. From the pool of dozens. Your odds on any given Nightfall/Raid/whatever of getting specifically a Suros Regime (for example) is probably close to 1/300 (assuming a 10% exotic drop rate and a pool of around 30 exotics).

While I don't know what the odds on Abyss Defiant dropping actually are, based on anecdotal evidence with my raid groups, it looks to be WELL over 50%. And it certainly doesn't require you to be max level to get it, as it's just the Bridge drop. I've gotten through that as a level 31, and the other night I had a couple of level 30s in my group that did it.

And yes, it's not as good as Suros in most encounters (except Nightfalls, notably!), but it's absolutely less rare of a drop at this point. And remember, there's actually a lot of value in the fact that it's a legendary rather than an exotic, in that you can have a decent Suros stand-in and STILL equip an Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn or whatever.

Meh. Gjallarhorn's Wolfpack rounds track better and do more damage than Hunger's Cluster bomb, that's what I was talking about.

Okay, but the sample size is MUCH higher. Every single Strike (high level), Crucible round, Purple Engram, Nightfall, and appropriate Raid loot was a roll at Suros. And that's since September assuming you're not a late comer. Obviously it's possible to get unlucky and never get the drop, but I assure you this is true of Raid Weapons as well. I received my first Fatebringer two weeks ago, meanwhile my very first Hard VoG dropped a Mythoclast.

That last part is the best thing the "Diet" weapons have going for them, for sure. I'm a little surprised they haven't done a knock off Icebreaker yet.

Apothe0sis

They have done a knock off icebreaker - the hack blammer.

Apothe0sis

I want to go home and kill hard mode crota and get those sweet sweet shinies.

shoeboxjeddy

Apothe0sis wrote: »

They have done a knock off icebreaker - the hack blammer.

I don't think it counts as a knock off sharing none of the perks? It doesn't explode enemies and only gives you more ammo if you shoot very precisely (and lag/inaccurate hit boxes sometimes cheats you anyway). A knock off would regenerate ammo at a much slower rate than Icebreaker or perhaps only to half clip before stopping. And it might explode enemies "sometimes" with precision shots.

Also, they need to fix the Hive killer perk on it and the new primary that's also bugged, that's the only thing keeping the knock off versions on par during the Raid.

Apothe0sis

I can guarantee it was designed as a baby-Icebreaker. It's a high impact solar sniper rifle with (potentially) unlimited ammo. High impack with unlimited ammo being the defining aspect of icebreaker. The fact that it also causes explosions is relatively incidental (even if it makes it a viable close combat weapon). It has similar stats and a less powerful unlimited ammo mechanism. In fact, no backpack is so powerful that either of the cut-back versions you describe would still be so powerful that you'd never have an excuse to use another weapon - the fact that you'd also be able to equip an exotic in another slot and it would just be nuts, it would probably entirely outclass icebreaker.

In the same way that:

Light of the Abyss is a baby Plan C -> fast charging arc fusion rifle
And Hunger of Crota is a baby Gjallerhorn -> extra damage tracking solar rockette launcher
And Swordbreaker is a baby gun that no one uses in PvE
And Abyss Defiant is a babby Suros

If we're arguing that Hunger and Abyss Defiant are cut down versions of Gjallerhorn and Suros then it's because they share similar stat profiles and conceptually similar defining perks. Hunger's cluster bombs are entirely different in kind to wolfpack rounds - they do much less damage and don't seek, which is really their primary strength. The link to Suros is even more tenuous with Abyss Defiant - Suros is defined by its excellent stats - mostly damage and stability - it heals you, it fires more slowly when aiming and it has massive damage increases for the bottom half of the magazine and it heals you. There are loads of other guns that share the slow fire perk, but it's that and the similar stability of the Abyss Defiant that invites comparison to the Suros even if the things that make Suros really unique are missing (mainly its Glass Half Full perk on steroids). Rejecting the Hack Blammer as an icebreaker-lite would undermind any comparison with the other two you wish to draw - it's got the stats and it reaches a similar effect via different but less powerful means.

tl;dr - there's more than one way to achieve a similar effect less powerfully and missing perks are either relevant or they aren't.

Al_wat

!

got a Red Death from Ir Yut!

(thats the deathsinger before crota right?)

Foreverender

I have like 600 hours in this game and don't have a Suros or Gjallarhorn yet

Bummer dude

Arteen

Fun fact: If you leave a darkness zone during a nightfall while someone in it is dead, you get the game over screen. What a load of bull.

Ratsult2

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

Hiryu02 wrote: »

Hunger of Crota is a normal mode drop.

? I know that of course (I got three of them during our normal runs after all...). We were talking about Abyss Defiant.

minor incident wrote: »

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

minor incident wrote: »

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

Forever Zefiro wrote: »

Still haven't beat Crota himself on hard

Did get the Crota Auto Rifle though, so that's neat I guess, it at least has more than a hair's width of Impact

Hunger of Crota is Diet Gjallarhorn, it seems Abyss Defiant may be intended to be Diet Suros. No idea why Bungie thinks making the rare drops clearly inferior to the store purchased, or commonly dropped Exotics is such a great idea...

I'm curious why you think a legendary should be better in every way than an exotic? Abyss Defiant makes a pretty good case against Suros Regime, though, for the record. It fires a bit faster and has solar damage to make up for the half empty perks.

As for drop rates and rarity? I've gotten one Suros and one Gjallarhorn, both as drops. And I have 500+ hours of playtime. In contrast I have 3 Abyss Defiants and would have 4 Hunger of Crota's, if I hadn't sharded two of them.

I never said better in "every" way actually. Hunger of Crota is inferior to Gjallarhorn in damage and tracking, any minor areas it is better seem to pale in comparison. Abyss may measure up to Suros in some ways, but it has some problems.

1) Only drops in Hard Raid level 33, putting it out of reach for many (this is what I meant by rare).
2) Upgrades off of equally rare Radiant Energies, which could be used in trade for important Radiant Shards instead.
3) Damage overall appears to be lower.
4) Lacks the healing perk so useful in the Raid where you actually get it from.

Suros is certainly rare, BUT there's been at least two opportunities to buy one and it can drop any given week in the Nightfall (three chances PER week) or from either Raid, either difficulty OR (more rarely) from any Purple Engram OR as a Lucky Drop from ANY Strike or ANY Crucible Round. I would say something you can only do maximum three times a week WITH max leveled characters since the middle of THIS month is more arduous than something you could have received since launch in a dozen ways.

A couple of points:

There is only one "Tracking." Gjallarhorn doesn't track better than other tracking rocket launchers. Truth being the only exception.

Each of those exotic chances is a small chance for AN exotic to drop. From the pool of dozens. Your odds on any given Nightfall/Raid/whatever of getting specifically a Suros Regime (for example) is probably close to 1/300 (assuming a 10% exotic drop rate and a pool of around 30 exotics).

While I don't know what the odds on Abyss Defiant dropping actually are, based on anecdotal evidence with my raid groups, it looks to be WELL over 50%. And it certainly doesn't require you to be max level to get it, as it's just the Bridge drop. I've gotten through that as a level 31, and the other night I had a couple of level 30s in my group that did it.

And yes, it's not as good as Suros in most encounters (except Nightfalls, notably!), but it's absolutely less rare of a drop at this point. And remember, there's actually a lot of value in the fact that it's a legendary rather than an exotic, in that you can have a decent Suros stand-in and STILL equip an Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn or whatever.

Meh. Gjallarhorn's Wolfpack rounds track better and do more damage than Hunger's Cluster bomb, that's what I was talking about.

Okay, but the sample size is MUCH higher. Every single Strike (high level), Crucible round, Purple Engram, Nightfall, and appropriate Raid loot was a roll at Suros. And that's since September assuming you're not a late comer. Obviously it's possible to get unlucky and never get the drop, but I assure you this is true of Raid Weapons as well. I received my first Fatebringer two weeks ago, meanwhile my very first Hard VoG dropped a Mythoclast.

That last part is the best thing the "Diet" weapons have going for them, for sure. I'm a little surprised they haven't done a knock off Icebreaker yet.

This is only true of VoG raid weapons. I still don't have a Mythoclast, but I have 3 Abyss Defiants.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

minor incident

Al_wat wrote: »

!

got a Red Death from Ir Yut!

(thats the deathsinger before crota right?)

That's my Crota killin' gun. So so good.

Al_wat

minor incident wrote: »

Al_wat wrote: »

!

got a Red Death from Ir Yut!

(thats the deathsinger before crota right?)

That's my Crota killin' gun. So so good.

I needed this really really badly

Cilla Black

I got the Abyss Defiant shortly before that red death on the same run.

Didn't want to hold down the raid for crota, but I'm pretty happy getting a really good auto rifle. I won't be super sad to bid farewell to my aggresively mediocre For the People.

sPider817

Seriously, Destiny must think I just LOVE hand cannons. I mean, I do, but there are other weapons I'd like. Legendary engram from doing the daily on my Titan just gave me TFWPKY 1969.

Sirialis

How do I see what parts of NM and HM raids I've cleared? I cant find it on destinystatus.com or Bungies own site.

Edit: Apparently its under Advisors on the Bungie site.

sPider817 wrote: »

Seriously, Destiny must think I just LOVE hand cannons. I mean, I do, but there are other weapons I'd like. Legendary engram from doing the daily on my Titan just gave me TFWPKY 1969.

I think the first 8 weapons I got from the DLC were shotguns... Awful shotguns with no range bonuses even.

Shadowfire

Anyone up for the heroic? Going to bang it out on my hunter.
Join up on me on ps4, Bradcopter.

sPider817

Sirialis wrote: »

How do I see what parts of NM and HM raids I've cleared? I cant find it on destinystatus.com or Bungies own site.

I don't think you can. Pretty sure that's something you've just gotta remember on your own.

Sirialis

sPider817 wrote: »

Sirialis wrote: »

How do I see what parts of NM and HM raids I've cleared? I cant find it on destinystatus.com or Bungies own site.

I don't think you can. Pretty sure that's something you've just gotta remember on your own.

You can actually, its just very basic, with 4 squares indicating the parts of Crota raid, yellow if you already did it and grey if you didnt.

It's under Advisors in your profile screen on Bungies site.

This is my 31 Hunter.

Dynagrip

I'm down for vault of glass or crucible. Gonna run around in control for a bit I think.