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Vaccination:Clark County Washington, Failing the rest of the state Since Inception
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Honestly, it was fantastic. He just sized me up, laid me out on the bench and started cracking away. I've never felt so goddamn relaxed in all my life. He didn't spout any bullshit, didn't even tell me to come back in two weeks or that I would 'experience pain' afterwards. I didn't have a single twinge. My girlfriend at the time also went to one, and she was bedridden for two days afterwards.
To my great dismay, the guy shut up shop shortly after he did my back. It only cost me fifty bucks and I'd gladly have gone back in a few months when I needed it again.
Since then, I've learned how to do it myself, though the neck part still gives me trouble sometimes.
Steam: adamjnet
I only ever saw the physiotherapist specifically for my shoulder. My hips were always with the chiropractor, I have a Femoral Acetabular Impingement on both hips, which was found by my GP and a radiologist when I got xrays done. so my range of motion in my hips is limited , as well according to the one MSK doc I saw my one leg is a bit shorter than the other so my stance and hip tends to be a bit skewed. I started to see the chiro as my hips where hurting while trying to do some kicks and I was noticing that I wasnt able to get my legs out as far as they use to. I went to see the Chiro he did his thing and at least for the next few months the kicks I was doing that caused pain were no longer painful and I was able to perform them properly again. I maybe would see him every few months, usually around when I noticed the pain starting to return and my form being shit.
I will eventually have to go in for surgery to correct the impingement as it is really starting to limit my movement and I would rather it get when I am young then wait and potentially need a hip replacement down the road.
I personally would love to take an xray before and after my hip "adjustment" to see if there is any difference in how it is angled etc, and it is quite possible what the chiropractor is doing to me isn't apart of the chiropractic treatments and could be actual sports medicine or perhaps something that has actual merit that they adopted and put into there bag of tricks.
Confirmation Bias, Anecdotes and all that, I still don't have a problem seeing my guy.
You're looking at it the wrong way. My sugar pills have been proven to have minor beneficial effects on a wide variety of diseases, have been tested in more clinical trials than any medicine on the market,are completely natural, and the main ingredient has been used by ancient civilizations probably.
I am now taking preorders act quick before big pharma scams you
You said he 'works the hamstings and glutes'. That sounds a lot like physiotherapy to me, which incidentally is a typical treatment for FAI over the short term. I mean, if you like him and he isn't overcharging you, then more power to you. It just isn't anecdotal support for chiropractic the discipline.
I think it's worth noting here that my insurance co-pay for chiropractors is $35 per visit. It's $75 to see a licensed physical therapist. I went with the latter when I hurt my back, but I can fully understand how someone with chronic issues might choose a chiropractor over PT.
I am an atheist and fairly skeptical about a bunch of things, as well my wife is a MD so I get blasted with science and new shit and findings in the medical world all the time.
for me it all depends on what you are seeing your "healer" for and if you feel like you are being ripped off by how much they are charging you. My Chiropractor is covered under my health benefits so even if it is all FUD it still helps me until I can get in to see a orthopod. While the relief I feel might just be psychosomatic I cant deny that I do feel and move much better after it.
The thing that the bloody naturopaths, homeopaths and other "alternative" medicine folks have over the actual MDs is the time they can spend actual time with you instead of 8 minutes in and out. That sort of interaction helps with vague bullshit maladies and imagined pains etc. I would rather these quacks exist to look after these folks instead of having them clog up GPs and hospitals.
That said there has to be a serious legal line drawn against these "alt" folks to make sure they aren't trying to treat actual illnesses or provide them with the tools to refer people to actual doctors when they suspect something is real, of course to do that they would likely have to go to a real medical school to get up to speed with actual treatment, which might in turn open there eyes to the fact that what they do is just placebo and that they perhaps would be better off trying to become actual doctors (which of course they likely don't have the schooling to even attempt to get into med school in the first place...
Exactly, he calls himself a Chiropractor and has his diplomas etc for it, but likely what he is doing isn't your standard Chiropractic stuff, so maybe I am actually visiting a dude who just is mislabelled.
I know you feel this way, and you're probably right. But at this point I am sick and tired of pussy-footing around people's strongly held bullshit beliefs that fly in the face of any scientific evidence because it tells them that "maybe I am right in my beliefs, what other things do I believe without any sense, maybe the world should cater to that too!"
It's a temporary solution that makes the problem worse.
Diagnosing autism at eighteen months is considered on the early side - most clinical diagnosis happens closer to two years.
Moving the MMR vaccine to two years will likely result in more infections (children in the 1-2 year range are generally exposed to a lot more potential vectors than children in the 0-12 month range) and will still result in autism diagnoses occurring around the same time as vaccinations.
And - let's be honest - your solution probably won't convince anyone who isn't going to vaccinate their kid because of autism.
I'll note that one major blow in the developing world to vaccination efforts was the CIA using vaccinations as a way to get DNA samples to verify identities (i.e. in the hunt for Osama). That caused a distrust of WHO efforts and directly led to a resurgence of polio. Not that I think the CIA had a bad idea, but keep that kind of shit under wraps.
Doing anything that undermines trust in organizations like WHO, Red Cross/Crescent/Crystal , etc. is a terrible idea, as whatever minor benefit gained from it is going to be vastly outweighed by the consequences of the damage to those organizations' legitimacy.
Yeah. I'm open to looking at it, but the dates of vaccinations are set where they are for epidemiological reasons.
It didn't help, but ultimately it's pretty much all the same shitty people railing against vaccines that were railing against vaccines before that incident. Like western anti-vaxxers, they live in a fantasy world and are more than happy to kill and cripple kids in service to false idols.
What do you mean? We have bee...
Oh. Right.
Do me a favour: Count backwards from ten.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
Just watching someone have the flu will make you go to all sorts of crazy lengths to avoid joining them. A vaccine is nothing! Before the vaccine, all my kids and wife got the flu and the doctor tells me "you probably dont' have it yet so here's a prescription for basically magic anti-flu powder"
"what do I do with it?"
"you breathe it into your lungs and we think it'll maybe help"
"I breathe this powder. Like, I just suck it into my lungs?"
"Yeah, big deep breath. You won't cough but it's going to feel weird"
"And this blocks the flu?"
"often..."
"this powder, that I inhale, that doesn't always work"
"yes"
".... can I do it right now?
MKDELTA/MKULTRA
I remember that post and I still believe that. I think it was in an acupuncture or chiropractic thread in response to The Cat.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It's going to be awhile before that happens. Why don't you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Would you kindly please vaccinate your kids already!
They have a lot of overlap with other physical therapy fields, i.e. physiotherapy and massage therapy, so some of what they do genuinely helps.
Some other beneficial things can be attributed to the placebo effect, and just having someone touch you (which is also a factor in physiotherapy and massage therapy)
That's all well and good, but "Chiropracty" also covers a lot of other things, some of them actively harmful, especially to children.
So a lot of people luck out and basically get unlicensed physiotherapists, but the label "Chiropractor" is useless for determining that.
That's pretty much why I find them one of the most dangerous of the pseudo sciences. There's enough people that luck out on who they get, and will go to bat for Chiropractors, and the fact that they can do lasting harm.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
the problem is with all the anti-vaxxers around you do not want your kid without that vaccine between months 12 and 24 when they are most vulnerable to those diseases
The issue is the internet, as someone mentioned, but not just because like-minded people can more easily find each other. We are inundated with information. There are few barriers to it anymore. Even "mainstream" news sources will often run garbage. Now more than ever you have to be your own filter. And people who purvey "junk" science in order to sow doubt, or sell you something, or get their industries out of regulatory legislation (I have on and off been reading a fascinating book called Doubt is their Product by David Michaels but it is dense and long), are very good at what they do. I don't believe that the schooling most people had prepared them to be critical and skeptical of the sources of information we are now exposed to daily. Hell, I have a bachelor's degree in history and I don't feel that there was enough instruction on how to evaluate sources. There should be an entire course on nothing else.
Anyway, I agree it is a problem for public health, I do vaccinate my kids, but you need to understand these people do not think their opinions are better than your facts. They don't believe it is an opinion, and they think they know better than you do.
Wii: 4521 1146 5179 1333 Pearl: 3394 4642 8367 HG: 1849 3913 3132
Both parents had to take significant time off from work and a family member had to come in and help because their child could not leave the house for a month.
I wonder if it would be possible for that family to sue the parents who refused to vaccinate for lost wages and whatever else.
I don't want to add to an already sometimes overly litigious society. But if anti-vacc parents were to suddenly find themselves financially at risk because of it. I think it would move things in the right direction.
Which is why the best solution is, in the wake of these outbreaks, for the government to crack down hard on them. It's one of the few areas where I think a campaign of educating the public that "those people" are dangerous to "your children" would be actively helpful to society.
Some people need to be demonized, especially if they cannot be educated. Put anti-vaxxers in the box with white supremacists, pedophiles and people who sell crack at schoolyards and call it a day.
I'd love to know what exactly they've studied and read, because beyond the one paper (of which just about everything else is based off) that has been so heavily debunked the guy was kicked from practice, I'm not sure they've actually read and studied much more than what they wanted to hear. And unfortunately, that's not how reality works. Or, at least, that's not how it should work.
As for you feeling poorly because you listened to someone who has devoted their life to doing something that you looked to them for guidance, that's also kind of how it works. You are right, you shouldn't be entirely ignorant about it, which a very cursory search will teach you why we vaccinate. Eliminating diseases it the big reason. And Herd Immunity (which has been talked about ad nauseum) is a wonderful side effect to control outbreaks.
If I'm going to talk to some young mother about studies that support vaccination and she "totally read how vaccines have Mercury" I can't even begin to address that point and talk about peer reviewed sources and the difference between methyl and ethyl Mercury. And then they think I'm an asshole because im using phrases they don't know and they think I'm being condescending.
Well, I'm sure they didn't read the debunking articles and research. They just found the "research" that agreed with their positions and didn't go any further.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I think the Disney outbreak will be a watershed moment. Lots of people who would tune out the scientific discussion can easily grasp the idea that a bunch of idiots managed to make Disneyland unsafe for their kids. The fact that the people involved remain unrepentant while people like the dad whose kid has leukemia come forward will only deepen the feeling that something is wrong with the anti-vaccination movement.
That's how the tide will turn against this - a flood of easily relateable incidents where regular parents suffer harm thanks to ideologues. It won't hurt that the media has already turned on the movement (you can tell by the tone of the recent coverage), and I'm sure they will do that thing where they find some of the craziest motherfuckers in the nation to represent it on TV.
Yup.
It's just about impossible to have any sort of discussion about modern medical science and practice (or really, anything more than a cursory glance at any scientific field) with a layman. It's going to basically come down to an appeal to authority when you're trying to explain the nuts and bolts of vaccination to someone without at least a couple 100-200 level credits of Biology.
The people mare_imbrium is talking about are the most dangerous, because they chose the wrong authority to trust, and fall victim hard to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Even worse, they poison the well for any scientific or fact based discussion with people who may otherwise have been receptive to the facts.
Public health is like the perfect shitstorm of suck. Really, the only thing that's unusual about the anti-vaccers is that most of them aren't minority, the one group with a legitimate historic reason to distrust public health authorities.
Personally, I think that unvaccinated children shouldn't be allowed to attend any licensed daycare, school, scout troop, etc - public or private - without a doctor's exemption. If I can't send my daughter to school with a PB&J for lunch because another kid might be allergic, I certainly don't understand how a parent can send a kid that is quite possibly a vector for some hard-core diseases.
Like has been said before: The placebo affect is amazing.
Does your child not come into contact with other children, because my five month old does... All the fucking time.
I guess if you never leave the house
I dunno, where did they get it from this time?
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I'd assume that in general a child < 12 months old comes into less contact with other children (and a smaller group of children overall) than a 2 year old, but it's a red herring of an argument.
Other than good clinical practices and medical necessity, there's not really any good reason to hold off vaccinating children as early as possible.
Anyway, amount of contact is a poor measuring stick to determine the necessity of vaccinations to begin with. It disregards the number of children that receive group care, and also ignores the fact that infants and toddlers are an immune compromised / vulnerable population while school aged children generally aren't.
other people's houses, other people's kids, public surfaces, mostly other people though
or yknow disneyworld