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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Well, but it did happen. With the Horus Heresy. That's why they created the Codex Astartes and split up the legions. And it's why in the fiction this stuff is regarded as an elephant in the room, where all the different former legions are bending or breaking the rules and no one likes it (including the marines themselves when it regards how the other former legions are doing it), but no one wants to stir up the shit storm that would result from getting confrontational about it.
The fans here and elsewhere are just discussing the matter from that perspective, it may make us like one group more than another, or like a group less for how they handle it, but we aren't worried or angry about it IRL.
They used to be multi-role shock infantry forces that just needed auxiliaries to hold ground, essentially. They could prosecute wars entirely on their own, they had the numbers, the logistics etc to conquer star systems and hold them.
The Codex is designed to force them to need Imperial forces like Guard and Navy, and other Marine chapters, because their fleet elements are geared to planetary assault, they lack full scale artillery, they are massively reduced in operational numbers per campaign etc etc etc. There's nothing there about not working with those other elements, in fact they actually have to, but the idea is that Marneus Calgar can't just order Ultramarines Successors around, he needs to ask, and his reputation is such that they tend to do what he asks.
Legions fell because their warrior lodges spread throughout them, and affected everyone, mostly because they all lived and worked together. While Marneus Calgar might be able to ask, I dunno, the Iron Snakes to do something (and they might say yes) it's unlikely he's ever met other single Chapter Master face to face more than half a dozen times.
The whole point of the Codex is not to make Chapters better than Legions. It's to make Chapters less dangerous to the Imperium than Legions, and even if Chapters work together, they definitely are that. When was the last time ten full chapters assembled in a single place to do anything? A 10,000 marine force was not uncommon in the Great Crusade, in 40K it's pretty much unheard of (didn't even happen in the Badab War, or the Black Crusades, or Armageddon etc), and if it did happen it'd be very much one coming together, and then a hasty moving on.
Even if you did manage to get ten full chapters together, and they did share cultural viewpoints, and they did all become corrupted, then that's a terrifying force... but it's also a tiny fraction of a single Traitor Legion in the Heresy.
I picked up the "Getting Started with Age of Sigmar" book that's $8 on a whim the other day. I have no interest in AoS but it's a pretty nice read nonetheless. Basically I grabbed it because I'm thinking of picking up the Storm of Sigmar box since it would be $33 and give me an excuse to paint some cool models and get my roommate to play a tabletop wargame with me.
The book comes with a Stormcast Eternal mini, and I was tempted to assemble and paint it as a one off sorta thing, but instead I spent some time last night doing a little plastic surgery. I removed the arms up to the torso while still keeping the shoulderpads attached, then threw on some power armor arms. Then swapped the Stormcast helmet for an old skeleton head, then trimmed the rear of the shoulder armor and slapped on a power pack. Finally, I threw on a banner and a purity seal or two and then gave him a boltgun after cutting and reorienting the right arm at the elbow. Presto, I now have a Space Marine Chaplain.
Looks pretty ghetto but considering I built him out of an essentially free miniature and some spare bits I think he'll do ok. The only problem is I don't actually have anything that would work as a crozius, so I just cut the hammer out of the Stormcast's right hand and attached it to a Space Marine left hand after removing the combat knife it originally held and then glued some random shit to it. I'll figure something out later.
I figure after throw some paint on him he'll end up looking the part.
+9
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Looks like a Salamander in his own personalised suit to me. Hammer+scale mail screams "Son of Vulcan" no?
Looks like a Salamander in his own personalised suit to me. Hammer+scale mail screams "Son of Vulcan" no?
He totally does. I run my duders as Iron Hands though because I love me some Dreads/Rhinos/Flyers/Etc. In retrospect I wish I had cut off his feet below the shinguards and replaced them with normal power armor feet to make him look more "space marine-y" but that would have been a huge pain in the ass.
I had a bunch of errands to run before I got to my FLGS for our gaming night today so I wasn't able to actually bring my army with me. I figured I'd just hang out and shoot the shit with the fellas but ended up borrowing a mech guard army and bamming out a 1,000 point game against a Chaos Space Marines player who wasn't doing anything. It was a crash course in Imperial Guard so I basically spent half the game looking stuff up in the IG codex but I had fun.
Not in any of the formations, though? It seems to be Captain or Chaplain only.
You can just take a Combined Arms formation, same force org as previous editions. (2 troops, 1 hq minimum)
That easy, huh? I should reread the detachment rules.
Yup.
To be "battleforged" every unit in you army must belong to a Detachment or Formation. Some detachments are made from formations, some aren't.
The "Combined Arms Detachment" (CAD) is the equivalent to the old "Force Organization Chart" (FOC) and is available for every army. Only reason an army might not be able to use it is if they don't have HQ or Troop selections (there are a few)
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
So let me throw my bet in for Rob being elevated to Emperor status here soon. I don't see any reason the Emperor 1.0 can't keep doing what he does (and probably doing it better) as a warp entity 'god' and the Imperium can't continue to function with an actual ruler at its helm.
See also:
"Rise" of a Primarch
Flaming sword
Life Support (maybe?) suit
Artwork of him looking like his dad but with a haircut and dye job (gold, glowing eyes)
So let me throw my bet in for Rob being elevated to Emperor status here soon. I don't see any reason the Emperor 1.0 can't keep doing what he does (and probably doing it better) as a warp entity 'god' and the Imperium can't continue to function with an actual ruler at its helm.
See also:
"Rise" of a Primarch
Flaming sword
Life Support (maybe?) suit
Artwork of him looking like his dad but with a haircut and dye job (gold, glowing eyes)
Rumor has it
Guilliman becomes the "Emperor Incarnate" after the Emperor's body is destroyed and his soul is fragmented.
Maybe they can split off Ultramar plus surrounding sectors into a East Roman Imperium. The slightly more progressive and secular empire in a begrudgingly friendly realtionship with the Western Imperium.
0
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The Imperium can't even manage to have friendly relationships with itself.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I would love to see what would happen with a narrative where old matey Rob is so horrified by what the imperium has become it leads to civil war, but I'm also pretty interested to see where the story goes with an actual leader in charge of the imperium.
Just curious here, where do you get the information for what's happening in the 40k setting?
Is this in new novels? Published through White Dwarf? Designer blogs?
The current big stuff is happening in the Gathering Storm books that have come out the last couple months. The first one deals with the Fall of Cadia, the second with the attack on the Biel-Tan craftworld and apparent creation of Ynnead, and the third is going to be about Roboute Guilliman being revived and leading a new crusade.
0
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than lived to see this.
Daaaamn, that's some borderline heretical shit.
I can't wait for Imperial Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo. Allies Matrix is gonna be alllll messed up.
Also, I saw this mentioned the other day somewhere, and I was surprised that it had never hit me before - classifying the movie Event Horizon as taking place a long time ago in the 40K universe and demonstrating the perils of Warp Travel prior to the invention of the Gellar Field generator.
I mean, Event Horizon has always been the easiest way to explain how warp travel works to non-40k people.
"you remember that movie, with like... the jurrasic park guy and morpheus?"
+3
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than lived to see this.
Daaaamn, that's some borderline heretical shit.
I can't wait for Imperial Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo. Allies Matrix is gonna be alllll messed up.
Also, I saw this mentioned the other day somewhere, and I was surprised that it had never hit me before - classifying the movie Event Horizon as taking place a long time ago in the 40K universe and demonstrating the perils of Warp Travel prior to the invention of the Gellar Field generator.
Doom is also part of the 40k future-history, as is Dune.
Like, now > Doom > Mad Max > Event Horizon > Iron Men vs. Stone Men > Dune > Dark Age of Technology > more Mad Max > Reunification > Great Crusade > Horus Heresy….
Reminds me of the Soul Drinkers trilogy. Descended from Dorn, they're friendly with all of their fellow successor chapters.
Until the Imperial Fists apothicary studies the geneseed and concludes that they have no fucking idea who was the Soul Drinkers' progenitor, but it ain't Rogal Dorn.
The Soul Drinkers are Suprised But Not Super Surprised at this news, possibly because the entire chapter was mutating into Chaos Marines by that point (while still being mostly loyal to the Imperium).
Turns out that their dreadnought ancestor fucked with their geneseeds and re-wrote all their chapter lore. They never come right out and say it, but it has the hallmarks of an Alpha Legion op.
Speaking of insider knowledge... I may have heard that stores are being told not to order and 40k rulebooks or codexes anymore as there will be big changes in June...
Speaking of insider knowledge... I may have heard that stores are being told not to order and 40k rulebooks or codexes anymore as there will be big changes in June...
What was the last edition change where codexes got ditched? 2nd to 3rd?
Speaking of insider knowledge... I may have heard that stores are being told not to order and 40k rulebooks or codexes anymore as there will be big changes in June...
What was the last edition change where codexes got ditched? 2nd to 3rd?
That's the part that surprised me the most too. I know nothing more than what I posted though.
Could be they're switching the books over to the Age of Sigmar style?
+2
WarcryI'm getting my shit pushed in here!AustraliaRegistered Userregular
I'm starting a Tau army, and I don't really want to engage in MC spam because there's quite a few non-competitive players in our group. As such, I'd like a bit of input of the force I'm considering running. I'd like it to be quite nasty, but not immune to the kind of force Space Marines, Chaos Marines and other mid-tier factions can put out. So far I've got:
Three squads of Fire Warriors, ten in each with a DS8 Support turret, running smart missiles.
Two three-man Crisis Teams, all armed with two Fusion Guns per model and thruster upgrades for Hit & Run and Fleet. These will be deep-striking in Termicide fashion.
A commander with Iridium Suit, stim injecters, a shield generator and twin fusion guns. Probably deep striking with a Crisis Team.
Two Hammerhead Gunships, running sub-munitions, disruptor pods and smart missiles. One has the Longstrike tank commander for BS5, tank hunter and supporting fire.
Three teams of Pathfinders, five man each with markerlights.
Maybe a squad or two of Kroot for bubble wrapping so I don't get charged.
One to three Broadsides, still deciding on the missiles or the railgun for the main weapon
An Aegis Defence Line.
Basic idea is the fire warriors, broadsides, hammerheads and Kroot make a static gunline. Pathfinders sit in the forest/ruins/somewhere high and mark targets. Shoot things till they die, then DS the Crisis Teams in and kill their tanks/MCs. Pretty basic strat, but hopefully a rather potent one.
Since I;ve only played as Tau once with another person's army, I'm unsure on how to field drones. I know they make good, cheap wound soakers, but I don't know whether to run marker drones, shield drones or gun drones. I'm also still iffy on the proper way to use markerlights, and how to synergize squads with them. Any help would be appreciated.
Just had a grueling 11 hour tournament today. By the end everyone had become bleary eyed cranky babies and arguments were breaking out between grown men with families and jobs and enormous facial hair over inconsequential rules. But in the end everyone was able to shake hands, someone got a $100 gift certificate, and everyone drove home to sleep in on Sunday. Until the next tournament.
FC: 1435-5383-0883
0
tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
I'm starting a Tau army, and I don't really want to engage in MC spam because there's quite a few non-competitive players in our group. As such, I'd like a bit of input of the force I'm considering running. I'd like it to be quite nasty, but not immune to the kind of force Space Marines, Chaos Marines and other mid-tier factions can put out. So far I've got:
Three squads of Fire Warriors, ten in each with a DS8 Support turret, running smart missiles.
Two three-man Crisis Teams, all armed with two Fusion Guns per model and thruster upgrades for Hit & Run and Fleet. These will be deep-striking in Termicide fashion.
A commander with Iridium Suit, stim injecters, a shield generator and twin fusion guns. Probably deep striking with a Crisis Team.
Two Hammerhead Gunships, running sub-munitions, disruptor pods and smart missiles. One has the Longstrike tank commander for BS5, tank hunter and supporting fire.
Three teams of Pathfinders, five man each with markerlights.
Maybe a squad or two of Kroot for bubble wrapping so I don't get charged.
One to three Broadsides, still deciding on the missiles or the railgun for the main weapon
An Aegis Defence Line.
Basic idea is the fire warriors, broadsides, hammerheads and Kroot make a static gunline. Pathfinders sit in the forest/ruins/somewhere high and mark targets. Shoot things till they die, then DS the Crisis Teams in and kill their tanks/MCs. Pretty basic strat, but hopefully a rather potent one.
Since I;ve only played as Tau once with another person's army, I'm unsure on how to field drones. I know they make good, cheap wound soakers, but I don't know whether to run marker drones, shield drones or gun drones. I'm also still iffy on the proper way to use markerlights, and how to synergize squads with them. Any help would be appreciated.
Not sure if this is still the thing, but usually suicide deep-striking suits were single-units, with a pair of fusion. You'd typically run regular squads as missile pod/plasma rifle/multi-tracker, which gives you a good array of weaponry against Marines at any range (MPs are good against Rhinos and other light vehicles, plasma good against marines and termies). Also dunno if you need that many Pathfinders, but markerlights are good. Don't know what the best options are these days.
Posts
The fans here and elsewhere are just discussing the matter from that perspective, it may make us like one group more than another, or like a group less for how they handle it, but we aren't worried or angry about it IRL.
They used to be multi-role shock infantry forces that just needed auxiliaries to hold ground, essentially. They could prosecute wars entirely on their own, they had the numbers, the logistics etc to conquer star systems and hold them.
The Codex is designed to force them to need Imperial forces like Guard and Navy, and other Marine chapters, because their fleet elements are geared to planetary assault, they lack full scale artillery, they are massively reduced in operational numbers per campaign etc etc etc. There's nothing there about not working with those other elements, in fact they actually have to, but the idea is that Marneus Calgar can't just order Ultramarines Successors around, he needs to ask, and his reputation is such that they tend to do what he asks.
Legions fell because their warrior lodges spread throughout them, and affected everyone, mostly because they all lived and worked together. While Marneus Calgar might be able to ask, I dunno, the Iron Snakes to do something (and they might say yes) it's unlikely he's ever met other single Chapter Master face to face more than half a dozen times.
The whole point of the Codex is not to make Chapters better than Legions. It's to make Chapters less dangerous to the Imperium than Legions, and even if Chapters work together, they definitely are that. When was the last time ten full chapters assembled in a single place to do anything? A 10,000 marine force was not uncommon in the Great Crusade, in 40K it's pretty much unheard of (didn't even happen in the Badab War, or the Black Crusades, or Armageddon etc), and if it did happen it'd be very much one coming together, and then a hasty moving on.
Even if you did manage to get ten full chapters together, and they did share cultural viewpoints, and they did all become corrupted, then that's a terrifying force... but it's also a tiny fraction of a single Traitor Legion in the Heresy.
The book comes with a Stormcast Eternal mini, and I was tempted to assemble and paint it as a one off sorta thing, but instead I spent some time last night doing a little plastic surgery. I removed the arms up to the torso while still keeping the shoulderpads attached, then threw on some power armor arms. Then swapped the Stormcast helmet for an old skeleton head, then trimmed the rear of the shoulder armor and slapped on a power pack. Finally, I threw on a banner and a purity seal or two and then gave him a boltgun after cutting and reorienting the right arm at the elbow. Presto, I now have a Space Marine Chaplain.
Looks pretty ghetto but considering I built him out of an essentially free miniature and some spare bits I think he'll do ok. The only problem is I don't actually have anything that would work as a crozius, so I just cut the hammer out of the Stormcast's right hand and attached it to a Space Marine left hand after removing the combat knife it originally held and then glued some random shit to it. I'll figure something out later.
I figure after throw some paint on him he'll end up looking the part.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Officers can only issue an order to a unit on foot within 12" of them, and a voxcaster just lets you reroll it if it fails?
What good is that?
EDIT: I mean in vet squads.
He totally does. I run my duders as Iron Hands though because I love me some Dreads/Rhinos/Flyers/Etc. In retrospect I wish I had cut off his feet below the shinguards and replaced them with normal power armor feet to make him look more "space marine-y" but that would have been a huge pain in the ass.
I had a bunch of errands to run before I got to my FLGS for our gaming night today so I wasn't able to actually bring my army with me. I figured I'd just hang out and shoot the shit with the fellas but ended up borrowing a mech guard army and bamming out a 1,000 point game against a Chaos Space Marines player who wasn't doing anything. It was a crash course in Imperial Guard so I basically spent half the game looking stuff up in the IG codex but I had fun.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
You can just take a Combined Arms formation, same force org as previous editions. (2 troops, 1 hq minimum)
edit: I meant "Combined Arms Detachment"
That easy, huh? I should reread the detachment rules.
Yup.
To be "battleforged" every unit in you army must belong to a Detachment or Formation. Some detachments are made from formations, some aren't.
The "Combined Arms Detachment" (CAD) is the equivalent to the old "Force Organization Chart" (FOC) and is available for every army. Only reason an army might not be able to use it is if they don't have HQ or Troop selections (there are a few)
See also:
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Rumor has it
It worked for the space dwarfs. For a while anyway.
Then they got eaten.
Is this in new novels? Published through White Dwarf? Designer blogs?
Daaaamn, that's some borderline heretical shit.
I can't wait for Imperial Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo. Allies Matrix is gonna be alllll messed up.
Also, I saw this mentioned the other day somewhere, and I was surprised that it had never hit me before - classifying the movie Event Horizon as taking place a long time ago in the 40K universe and demonstrating the perils of Warp Travel prior to the invention of the Gellar Field generator.
"you remember that movie, with like... the jurrasic park guy and morpheus?"
Doom is also part of the 40k future-history, as is Dune.
Like, now > Doom > Mad Max > Event Horizon > Iron Men vs. Stone Men > Dune > Dark Age of Technology > more Mad Max > Reunification > Great Crusade > Horus Heresy….
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
The Soul Drinkers are Suprised But Not Super Surprised at this news, possibly because the entire chapter was mutating into Chaos Marines by that point (while still being mostly loyal to the Imperium).
Turns out that their dreadnought ancestor fucked with their geneseeds and re-wrote all their chapter lore. They never come right out and say it, but it has the hallmarks of an Alpha Legion op.
What was the last edition change where codexes got ditched? 2nd to 3rd?
That's the part that surprised me the most too. I know nothing more than what I posted though.
I think since third it has jus been tweeks rather than a radical change.
Three squads of Fire Warriors, ten in each with a DS8 Support turret, running smart missiles.
Two three-man Crisis Teams, all armed with two Fusion Guns per model and thruster upgrades for Hit & Run and Fleet. These will be deep-striking in Termicide fashion.
A commander with Iridium Suit, stim injecters, a shield generator and twin fusion guns. Probably deep striking with a Crisis Team.
Two Hammerhead Gunships, running sub-munitions, disruptor pods and smart missiles. One has the Longstrike tank commander for BS5, tank hunter and supporting fire.
Three teams of Pathfinders, five man each with markerlights.
Maybe a squad or two of Kroot for bubble wrapping so I don't get charged.
One to three Broadsides, still deciding on the missiles or the railgun for the main weapon
An Aegis Defence Line.
Basic idea is the fire warriors, broadsides, hammerheads and Kroot make a static gunline. Pathfinders sit in the forest/ruins/somewhere high and mark targets. Shoot things till they die, then DS the Crisis Teams in and kill their tanks/MCs. Pretty basic strat, but hopefully a rather potent one.
Since I;ve only played as Tau once with another person's army, I'm unsure on how to field drones. I know they make good, cheap wound soakers, but I don't know whether to run marker drones, shield drones or gun drones. I'm also still iffy on the proper way to use markerlights, and how to synergize squads with them. Any help would be appreciated.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OLcAGbXhWIVcl5IziVpG0eKFJS3xi_Sac9kYMkRFvD8/edit?usp=sharing
Not sure if this is still the thing, but usually suicide deep-striking suits were single-units, with a pair of fusion. You'd typically run regular squads as missile pod/plasma rifle/multi-tracker, which gives you a good array of weaponry against Marines at any range (MPs are good against Rhinos and other light vehicles, plasma good against marines and termies). Also dunno if you need that many Pathfinders, but markerlights are good. Don't know what the best options are these days.