Plus there's still the ocean. Even if we can cope with the weather changes the pH of the ocean is changing as a result of the carbon and we're all gonna die if we don't do something about that.
phytoplankton produces like 60% of our oxygen. if that dies... I hope you got some perri-air stashed
Man, all the other threads are just fuckin around, this is the one to come to for that real existential dread.
The most frustrating part is it's a really "easy" fix compared to carbon capture. You just manufacture a shitload of lime and dump it in the ocean to make it more basic again.
Nobody's doing it yet even though it looks like the 6th Mass Extinction is on already.
That plan has some problems. To make that lime (calcium hydroxide) requires calcium oxide and water. Calcium oxide is produced from the thermal decomposition of calcium carbonate which produces calcium oxide and carbon dioxide. So the reaction itself generates CO2 which you'd have to be doing carbon capture on anyway for the plan to make sense, the energy required to heat all of it to 825 C would be around 2% of total worldwide energy output and from CO2 generating power plants (and where do you get all the fuel for that), the massive mining operations (about 75 times more than current worldwide production) to get that much limestone will be pumping out CO2, all the transportation to get it to the ocean will be pumping out CO2. And you'd be poisoning the area around the ocean dump sites.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I do like Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park musing about how the Earth will go on regardless of what happens to us. I would like to think that people are capable of averting our own extinction, but we won't know until we get there. Regardless, it's scary and not much fun.
If it gives people some hope, humans bounced back from a population of approximately 10,000. Without modern technology.
Now granted a climate shift in the opposite direction hasn't been tested yet, but I guess we'll find out shortly.
The actual value of 'shitload' has to be staggeringly massive to impact the fucking ocean though, right?
Movie reference time! I have a feeling hundreds of category 5 kaiju, scattered at strategic distribution locations around the ocean, having a non-stop torrent of shitting lime 24/7 until they died would still not suffice. I have no hard evidence to support this claim...other than the oceans being massive.
A slightly more realistic solution is to use genetic engineering to create a phytoplankton that survives in more acidic conditions and to seed the ocean with it. If you could make a version that reduces acidity at the same time, all the better, that'll help it self regulate.
But make no mistake, even if that works, that's fucking around with the ecosystem deliberately. And there's always the possibility it could make things even worse.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
"Does Trump still believe climate change is a hoax?"
"Well, he's built a lot of resorts and golf courses, and loves the outdoors."
--Anderson Cooper rolls eyes yet again--
That one has the option to not believe data still amazes me.
When someone says they don't believe it's man made climate change, as eye-rolly as it is. At least they're admitting that shit is changing. It's not a great response and you can't do a whole lot with it, because they're still willfully ignoring some data, but at least they acknowledge on some level that we're going to have to adapt.
When someone doesn't believe the climate is changing at all? What the fuck do you do with that? It turns into a "Do Witches Float" argument! Which isn't really a thing, except I've noticed it's a good description of lots of discussions you can have with conservatives when it comes to science... so maybe it is a thing, unless I stole it and am using it incorrectly.
It's just as stupid if he'd said:
"Does Trump still believe gravity is a hoax?"
"Well, he's flown in a lot of airplanes and loves trampolines."
Yesterday, the world’s first commercial carbon capture plant began sucking carbon dioxide (CO2) out of the air around it. Perched atop a Zurich waste incineration facility, the Climeworks carbon capture plant comprises three stacked shipping containers that hold six CO2 collectors each. Spongey filters absorb CO2 as fans pull air through the collectors until they are fully saturated, a process that takes about two or three hours.
The container then closes, and the process reverses. The collector is heated to 100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pure CO2 is released in a form that can be buried underground, made into other products, or sold.
According to Climeworks, the startup that created this carbon capture facility, hundreds of thousands more like it will be needed by midcentury if we want to remain below the limits set by the Paris Agreement. However, to keep the planet’s temperature from increasing by more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit), we’ll need to do something more than simply lowering global emissions.
“We really only have less than 20 years left at current emission rates to have a good chance of limiting emissions to less than 2°C,” Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment director Chris Field told Fast Company. “So it’s a big challenge to do it simply by decreasing emissions from energy, transportation, and agriculture.”
Essentially what torpedoed previous climate agreements was the divide between developed and developing nations. Developed nations like America said "holy shit we all gotta cut emissions or we're gonna die," developing nations like China said "okay yeah but y'all got 100s of years of the Industrial Revolution; we're over here trying to uplift billions out poverty and we're going to need to pollute more before we can afford to pollute less." There's a parabolic arc to carbon emissions for coutries who emit while industrializing and then cut back after they move to a post-industrial economy. This disagreement was previously intractable.
Paris changed that by saying that developing countries get to increase emissions so long as they do so in a way that accelerates progress along the parabola and leaves them ultimately in a place of reduction.
So China gets more leeway than we do because they need it, and in exchange they will still hit their targets, just a little later.
This is part of how they got everybody on Earth to agree except for a country that isn't a country, a country that already crossed the finish line and is yelling at everyone else to hurry up, and a country that is psychotic (that would be us).
This is the reason that I think people are overreacting about the US withdrawing from the Paris agreement. The Paris agreement wasn't binding in any way aside from making a vague promise to reduce carbon emissions. There was no set way of doing so or tagets or penalities if you didn't. No one would agree to it if it actually was binding for the reasons that Astaereth mentions.
China's going to keep on doing what it's doing, India is going to keep on doing what it's doing, the USA is going to keep on doing whatever it is it's doing and everyone else don't really matter that much as a percentage of global carbon emissions. I'm not being pessimistic about this, I think green energy/natural gas is rapidly overtaking coal in efficiency and cost so that emissions are going to naturally go down as coal is phased out. Look at China for instance which is moving away from coal, not from any altruistic reasons, but because it's smogging up their cities (which the elite live in) and it's not the cheapest power source anymore. They would be doing that with or without an agreement because it's in their own best interest.
The fact that it's not binding is why this is such a big deal. The US would have been perfectly fine not meeting any of the goals and competing recklessly with China for economic advantage if it wanted to, while also benefiting from the baseline assumption that "Oh we're in the Paris agreement and we're trying our best ". The Agreement is symbolic, but symbols have power. And for a far emptier, far more vacuous petty symbolic victory for the executives of a declining industry, the US shreds its credibility and reputation internationally. There isn't a fig leaf large enough to hide the taint of this decision and it is probable that the US' word, which was already in decline since W around the world, can never be trusted again. that's as irreversible as crossing the 2 degree threshold.
Was the use of 'taint' with 'fig leaf' intentional?
Because man, that's some imagery.
Massachusetts is joining the climate alliance formed by CA/NY/WA. Notable because the Governor there is a Republican.
Likewise Vermont. Hint: they both have to work with majority-democrat legislatures and constituencies (or at least majority Democrat-leaning independents). I'll be surprised if New Hampshire and Maine were to make announcements.
Massachusetts is joining the climate alliance formed by CA/NY/WA. Notable because the Governor there is a Republican.
Likewise Vermont. Hint: they both have to work with majority-democrat legislatures and constituencies (or at least majority Democrat-leaning independents). I'll be surprised if New Hampshire and Maine were to make announcements.
Maine's probably won't since their Governor is insane.
So that's almost a quarter of the country opting in... wonder what other states might hop onboard. Have we heard anything about Connecticut, New Jersey, Oregon?
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
So that's almost a quarter of the country opting in... wonder what other states might hop onboard. Have we heard anything about Connecticut, New Jersey, Oregon?
I would like to be in the possible future where the non-crazy states form a shadow US government, ensuring quality health care, education, human rights, and environmental protection to their people.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Massachusetts is joining the climate alliance formed by CA/NY/WA. Notable because the Governor there is a Republican.
Likewise Vermont. Hint: they both have to work with majority-democrat legislatures and constituencies (or at least majority Democrat-leaning independents). I'll be surprised if New Hampshire and Maine were to make announcements.
Maine's probably won't since their Governor is insane.
I believe I saw the NH Governor coming out in favor of leaving the agreement, as well.
He's not even holding it in the city that's in the fucking name of the rally.
Pittsburgh went for Clinton at +60. And the mayor is probably going to make his political career in the state by actively flipping Trump off at every opportunity from here on out.
It's exactly the kind of environment they want to keep him out of, essentially.
Lafayette Park is the one just on the north side of the White House so there is some sense to that. They could use the south side which is a big open field called the ellipse, but filling that thing to an impressive amount is difficult. Much easier to fill out Lafayette Park.
It's also where all the WH protests happen for basically all daylight hours. So that rally would take place in the middle of a bunch of completely unrelated protests.
Also, Pittsburgh is doing pretty well for itself after transitioning from steel/coal to a pretty diverse economy, with health and education being leading employers.
It's also gorgeous, a testament to blending the cityscape into nature rather than bulldozing everything. Everyone I know from Pburgh is a staunch environmentalist.
They are proud of the alliteration because they are children.
Trump probably only half remembers stuff he heard about Pittsburgh from his childhood and thinks it is still a coal/steel town with tons of horrific smog.
0
Options
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
So that's almost a quarter of the country opting in... wonder what other states might hop onboard. Have we heard anything about Connecticut, New Jersey, Oregon?
Connecticut is in! I was a little worried because we are suffering from not putting enough money in savings to cover pensions leading to severe deficits in our budget but I'm glad we are looking to the future this time.
Connecticut has already set goals to reduce greenhouse gas emissions that are more aggressive than the Paris agreement. Under the Global Warming Solutions Act, which passed the legislature in 2008, the state is committed to reducing carbon emissions by 80 percent from 2001 levels by 2050.
Also, Pittsburgh is doing pretty well for itself after transitioning from steel/coal to a pretty diverse economy, with health and education being leading employers.
It's also gorgeous, a testament to blending the cityscape into nature rather than bulldozing everything. Everyone I know from Pburgh is a staunch environmentalist.
They are proud of the alliteration because they are children.
Frankly the city needs a bit more bulldozing because it's a driveability/public transit nightmare. The green spaces initiative there did some good stuff with regards to the riverfronts, but the concessions to the nearby hills create a bunch of traffic chokepoints and they only bothered to send the light rail in one direction.
They are waaay too proud of that line. I guess it's better than the "Stop laughing at us!" rally.
Saw a pretty persuasive argument that it's about gender. People still associate Pittsburgh with steel and hard working manufacturing job, as opposed to totally effeminate Frenchmen.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
They are waaay too proud of that line. I guess it's better than the "Stop laughing at us!" rally.
Saw a pretty persuasive argument that it's about gender. People still associate Pittsburgh with steel and hard working manufacturing job, as opposed to totally effeminate Frenchmen.
I think it's far more likely they just picked the first place they thought of starting with P, and then kept it because they think pittsburgh is a 'red' heavy industry city.
It's also a safe bet the president's supporters don't know enough about the city's history or current politics to see it as anything other than a Manly Industrial Town.
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
Doesn't look like there is any word about us in Illinois joining the Coalition. Unfortunately, given the (THIRD DAMNED) year without a budget, a Republican governor, and a fairly ineffectual House and Senate, the best we can hope for is city level support.
Doesn't look like there is any word about us in Illinois joining the Coalition. Unfortunately, given the (THIRD DAMNED) year without a budget, a Republican governor, and a fairly ineffectual House and Senate, the best we can hope for is city level support.
No chance of joining as a state while Rauner is governor.
+3
Options
Doctor DetroitNot a doctorTree townRegistered Userregular
They are waaay too proud of that line. I guess it's better than the "Stop laughing at us!" rally.
Saw a pretty persuasive argument that it's about gender. People still associate Pittsburgh with steel and hard working manufacturing job, as opposed to totally effeminate Frenchmen.
Someone needs to show them what a real steel mill is like.
Posts
That plan has some problems. To make that lime (calcium hydroxide) requires calcium oxide and water. Calcium oxide is produced from the thermal decomposition of calcium carbonate which produces calcium oxide and carbon dioxide. So the reaction itself generates CO2 which you'd have to be doing carbon capture on anyway for the plan to make sense, the energy required to heat all of it to 825 C would be around 2% of total worldwide energy output and from CO2 generating power plants (and where do you get all the fuel for that), the massive mining operations (about 75 times more than current worldwide production) to get that much limestone will be pumping out CO2, all the transportation to get it to the ocean will be pumping out CO2. And you'd be poisoning the area around the ocean dump sites.
Oh earth will be fine, just maybe not humans...
Or at least a few billions of those..
There are 321 of these in the ocean.
But make no mistake, even if that works, that's fucking around with the ecosystem deliberately. And there's always the possibility it could make things even worse.
"Does Trump still believe climate change is a hoax?"
"Well, he's built a lot of resorts and golf courses, and loves the outdoors."
--Anderson Cooper rolls eyes yet again--
When someone says they don't believe it's man made climate change, as eye-rolly as it is. At least they're admitting that shit is changing. It's not a great response and you can't do a whole lot with it, because they're still willfully ignoring some data, but at least they acknowledge on some level that we're going to have to adapt.
When someone doesn't believe the climate is changing at all? What the fuck do you do with that? It turns into a "Do Witches Float" argument! Which isn't really a thing, except I've noticed it's a good description of lots of discussions you can have with conservatives when it comes to science... so maybe it is a thing, unless I stole it and am using it incorrectly.
It's just as stupid if he'd said:
"Does Trump still believe gravity is a hoax?"
"Well, he's flown in a lot of airplanes and loves trampolines."
https://futurism.com/a-plant-1000-times-more-efficient-at-co2-removal-than-photosynthesis-is-now-active/
more in the link
I'm never unintentional with taints
NNID: Hakkekage
I was wondering how long my state was going to take
Likewise Vermont. Hint: they both have to work with majority-democrat legislatures and constituencies (or at least majority Democrat-leaning independents). I'll be surprised if New Hampshire and Maine were to make announcements.
Maine's probably won't since their Governor is insane.
Eight hours ago, Governor Brown said that Oregon would join the coalition: http://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-paris-climate-change-goals-kate-brown/
I would like to be in the possible future where the non-crazy states form a shadow US government, ensuring quality health care, education, human rights, and environmental protection to their people.
Hahaha of all the parks in dc to choose
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I believe I saw the NH Governor coming out in favor of leaving the agreement, as well.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
He's not even holding it in the city that's in the fucking name of the rally.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Pittsburgh went for Clinton at +60. And the mayor is probably going to make his political career in the state by actively flipping Trump off at every opportunity from here on out.
It's exactly the kind of environment they want to keep him out of, essentially.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It's also where all the WH protests happen for basically all daylight hours. So that rally would take place in the middle of a bunch of completely unrelated protests.
It's also gorgeous, a testament to blending the cityscape into nature rather than bulldozing everything. Everyone I know from Pburgh is a staunch environmentalist.
They are proud of the alliteration because they are children.
Connecticut is in! I was a little worried because we are suffering from not putting enough money in savings to cover pensions leading to severe deficits in our budget but I'm glad we are looking to the future this time.
http://www.courant.com/politics/hc-paris-accord-states-universities-20170602-story.html
Frankly the city needs a bit more bulldozing because it's a driveability/public transit nightmare. The green spaces initiative there did some good stuff with regards to the riverfronts, but the concessions to the nearby hills create a bunch of traffic chokepoints and they only bothered to send the light rail in one direction.
Saw a pretty persuasive argument that it's about gender. People still associate Pittsburgh with steel and hard working manufacturing job, as opposed to totally effeminate Frenchmen.
I think it's far more likely they just picked the first place they thought of starting with P, and then kept it because they think pittsburgh is a 'red' heavy industry city.
No chance of joining as a state while Rauner is governor.
Someone needs to show them what a real steel mill is like.
As a Dane, let me just say, I'm fairly certain Donald Trump spells Des Moines with a th.
They sent 9500 troops to Afghanistan, you silly goose.
And no, I'm not talking about Des Moines, since that'd be half the population of Des Moines.
To be fair, the king of Denmark killed his own brother and married his sister-in-law. They're a weird people.
Des Moines has 200k people, you're off by an order of magnitude somewhere.
210K, triple if you include the surrounding metro area.
Also mostly financial and medical related industries in the area. So Pence/Trump can go fuck themselves. This did nothing to help Des Moines.