[PA Comic] Wednesday, April 8, 2015 - Winnerism

Dog

[PA Comic] Wednesday, April 8, 2015 - Winnerism

Winnerism

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2015/04/08

Read the full story here

Monkey Ball Warrior

I am with Gabe on this. It is a video game version of a slot machine; a mechanism for creating a false sense of control. The only difference is that, when you win, instead of getting money and feeling empty inside, you just feel empty inside.

Redthirst

That pretty much sums up how I feel about Hearthstone most of the time.

Drascin

Must have gotten a lot more random since I last played. My last Party was 4 and I always won at that, so clearly some measure of control was still involved.

protokidd

In Hearthstone, you have to pay them good cash to be competitive immediately. Still, skills wins the day (if you have right cards at the right amount). I'd say 70% skill, 30% luck.

Anyway, Gabe is spot-on in this one. I still have no idea how I win or lose Mario Party.

ImBocaire

Although some days, "success is random and skill is irrelevant" seems like a depressingly accurate assessment of the world at large.

Jam Warrior

If it's anything like previous games, the overall board game section is pretty damn random, just roll with it. But the winners of the individual mini-games should be skill based.

Well, apart from the entirely random ones.

Darkewolfe

Is Gabe's son a Waluigi?

"I'ma a Noah! I'ma (gonna) win!"

Enlong

Congratulations, Gabe! You get a star for Angriest Player!

YoungFrey

I understand that there is a place for games that bypass skill. Like Candyland, Chutes and Ladders, and Killer Instinct(I'm joking on this one). But those games are meant for very young kids and are really more learning tools for colors and rules. That seems like something you'd even lose when you digitized it. The primary benefit to video boardgames is the computer handles the fiddly crap. The comic answers this by pointing out the purpose is to allow the unskilled to have fun.

<edit> I realized nobody had posted the relevant prior Mario Party comic.

Linktm

Do you have a favorite color? STAR!

AntonNUL

Wow, the Gabes were hanging out with Tycho recently, huh?

Delzhand

It's weird to see lil Gabe age while Gabe the Elder doesn't.

Hargaad of Omnar

"This game is dumb. It's all about luck."
So, you're saying Mario Party is the same as Settlers of Catan. I can get behind that.

protokidd wrote: »

Anyway, Gabe is spot-on in this one. I still have no idea how I win or lose Mario Party.

Buy all the stars. I don't care if you don't have enough coins; get your DSL ready.
(though, in earlier versions, I'd just pause before the AI came to a star, switch AI to P2, resume, reject star, switch P2 back to AI, and collect the star myself)

Hargaad of Omnar

See? Even Geth agrees. Either Settlers of Catan is all luck or Mario Party takes some skillful finesse that none of us possess!

WarforgedRus

I know the mario party random feeling... but the strip didn't hit a comedic note for me. Would have preferred more of a Gabe self-doubt moment that he no longer possesses or has handed off the "good random luck" in the family.

Just personal preference I guess.

J. D. Milknut

This almost feels like a Tycho strip.

Lucascraft

The only way to ensure a legitimate win in Mario Party is to obtain such a massive lead over the competition that during the bullshit awards at the end, even if you don't get a single randomly distributed star, your lead still puts you ahead. Depending on version, this means you need anywhere from a 4 to 6 star lead over the next closest player.

R0n1n_76

"A winner is you!!" Yeah, screw that game.

jothki

Delzhand wrote: »

It's weird to see lil Gabe age while Gabe the Elder doesn't.

I'm looking forward to the comics 20 years down the line.

Quid

Huh.

I always just had fun playing mini games with friends and rolling dice. The final score never seemed important.

Darkewolfe

These sorts of games are good when you're drunk and or otherwise in a hoot and holler mood. Someone wins a mini-game? Laugh uproariously. Someone is robbed of their victory by sheer game fuckery? Laugh uproariously.

wormspeaker

Man, in Gabe's post he sounded like an honest-to-god responsible adult parent. When the hell did this happen? Oh, god! I just realized that I'm like 4 years older than they are. I'm getting old.

Hodur

Gabe, you really should create a video with you and Tycho both going over the subject from PTA talk. I could even see a TED talk here (seriously). There are a lot of parents out there who could benefit from it. I've seen you hit the topic a few times via Q&A at various events but putting it all together for mass consumption would be fantastic.

tomzombie

Wait. So both of Gabe's kids are blondes? His wife's hair obviously isn't naturally purple; she might be a blonde giving the kids a chance at being blonde, but Gabe's black hair is a dominate trait. Are we real sure those are Gabe's kids?

Hargaad of Omnar

In the vein of the previous few comments about the news post, I may not be able to speak for others, but I sometimes forget that not everybody is familiar with what I perceive to be common knowledge topics. One that I continually forget that not everybody knows about is games. Sure, there's deep knowledge to be had, but even some of the most rudimentary facts about games are lost on some of my peers who are older than 25. Kids these days are getting into games more these days due to how easily available they are and it would be great to inform all parents since (I feel) ignorance can lead to a child playing the wrong games and blurring the lines of morality for the worse down the line.

Sterica

tomzombie wrote: »

Wait. So both of Gabe's kids are blondes? His wife's hair obviously isn't naturally purple; she might be a blonde giving the kids a chance at being blonde, but Gabe's black hair is a dominate trait. Are we real sure those are Gabe's kids?

Gabe was not originally designed as an avatar for Mike

Alternative answer: Gabe has been dying his hair for years

H3Knuckles

tomzombie wrote: »

Wait. So both of Gabe's kids are blondes? His wife's hair obviously isn't naturally purple; she might be a blonde giving the kids a chance at being blonde, but Gabe's black hair is a dominate trait. Are we real sure those are Gabe's kids?

I'm assuming that you're kidding around, but just for the hell of it:
Expressed traits are the result of complex interactions of the genes from both parents, but in simplest terms everyone's got a set of paired chromosomes, which function as their genes. Every time your body makes a sperm or egg cell it only gets a random half of each pair. So dads (XY) have a 50/50 shot of passing a Y chromosome, while mothers (XX) can only pass on an X, giving each baby a 1 in 2 chance of being male. Dominant traits are those that override the other half of the pair when it comes to expression and vice versa for recessives, so if Gabe has blonde kids he has black AND blonde genes and is experiencing a streak in passing the latter on, and presumably the same from Kara's side.

In real life, coloration is a lot more complicated than that, as evidenced by how common it is for people to be blonde as children only to have it fade to a darker color as they enter puberty (not just white people either; see the melanesian and aborigine people of Oceania).

flamebroiledchicken

If you're trying to win at Mario Party, you're playing it wrong.

Quical

Mario Party is designed to be FUN FOR ALL. Like a lot of board games, it's not fun to have the one person who has played it more or who is really good at games win all the time, so some randomness helps mix things up a bit. Calling "bullshit" at the randomness IS part of the fun and part of the point.

Also Mario Party 10, the game this strip is on about, is great.

HeWhoSees

Mario Party isn't a game of "winning" or "losing". It's a game of "just how far can we push the bounds of insanity?"

fullforce098

tomzombie wrote: »

Wait. So both of Gabe's kids are blondes? His wife's hair obviously isn't naturally purple; she might be a blonde giving the kids a chance at being blonde, but Gabe's black hair is a dominate trait. Are we real sure those are Gabe's kids?

I see what your driving at. No, Gabe Jr is not Prince Joffery.

Inquisitor

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

See? Even Geth agrees. Either Settlers of Catan is all luck or Mario Party takes some skillful finesse that none of us possess!

The fun bit with Catan is even if the dice screw you over, you can point out to everyone else at the table that the dice are screwing you over, and get them to trade with you instead of other players, which can often put you back into the game.

Jormungandr

Inquisitor wrote: »

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

See? Even Geth agrees. Either Settlers of Catan is all luck or Mario Party takes some skillful finesse that none of us possess!

The fun bit with Catan is even if the dice screw you over, you can point out to everyone else at the table that the dice are screwing you over, and get them to trade with you instead of other players, which can often put you back into the game.

Yeah, if there were no trading in Catan, it would be almost all luck (there's still a small amount of strategy with what to do with your resources, initial placement, where to build first, etc). Certainly if it's a close game, it does come down to luck at the end if two people are trying to get their last point at roughly the same time, and nobody is trading with either of them. But to get to that point it's a combination of luck and skill.

Hargaad of Omnar

Inquisitor wrote: »

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

See? Even Geth agrees. Either Settlers of Catan is all luck or Mario Party takes some skillful finesse that none of us possess!

The fun bit with Catan is even if the dice screw you over, you can point out to everyone else at the table that the dice are screwing you over, and get them to trade with you instead of other players, which can often put you back into the game.

You could equally plead with your friends in Mario Party, "Come on. I'm in last place. You're in first place with 5 stars and I haven't gotten a single star yet. Just pass it up this one time while you and I are the only ones near the star and work on building a coin lead so 2nd place doesn't catch you."
With my friends, though (for both games)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT4IMWzRvsk

Inquisitor

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

Inquisitor wrote: »

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

See? Even Geth agrees. Either Settlers of Catan is all luck or Mario Party takes some skillful finesse that none of us possess!

The fun bit with Catan is even if the dice screw you over, you can point out to everyone else at the table that the dice are screwing you over, and get them to trade with you instead of other players, which can often put you back into the game.

You could equally plead with your friends in Mario Party, "Come on. I'm in last place. You're in first place with 5 stars and I haven't gotten a single star yet. Just pass it up this one time while you and I are the only ones near the star and work on building a coin lead so 2nd place doesn't catch you."
With my friends, though (for both games)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT4IMWzRvsk

Then your friends aren't very good at Catan, trading benefits the two players involved, if you are not involved in the trade, two players other than you are being benefited, if you are involved in the trade, then only one player other than you is being benefited, it is in your best interest to be involved in as many trades as possible, and it is in your best interest to trade with the player in last place as it benefits the player least likely to beat you.

Mercy has nothing to do with it. Trading from a position of power with someone who wants to desperately claw back into the game can often seal the game for you, on the lesser risk of letting the person behind get back into the game.

Hargaad of Omnar

Inquisitor wrote: »

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

Inquisitor wrote: »

Hargaad of Omnar wrote: »

See? Even Geth agrees. Either Settlers of Catan is all luck or Mario Party takes some skillful finesse that none of us possess!

The fun bit with Catan is even if the dice screw you over, you can point out to everyone else at the table that the dice are screwing you over, and get them to trade with you instead of other players, which can often put you back into the game.

You could equally plead with your friends in Mario Party, "Come on. I'm in last place. You're in first place with 5 stars and I haven't gotten a single star yet. Just pass it up this one time while you and I are the only ones near the star and work on building a coin lead so 2nd place doesn't catch you."
With my friends, though (for both games)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT4IMWzRvsk

Then your friends aren't very good at Catan, trading benefits the two players involved, if you are not involved in the trade, two players other than you are being benefited, if you are involved in the trade, then only one player other than you is being benefited, it is in your best interest to be involved in as many trades as possible, and it is in your best interest to trade with the player in last place as it benefits the player least likely to beat you.

Mercy has nothing to do with it. Trading from a position of power with someone who wants to desperately claw back into the game can often seal the game for you, on the lesser risk of letting the person behind get back into the game.

I would say that it's the opposite. My friends and I are too cutthroat for our own good. Never has a deal gone down so easy as "two sheep for one wood". We take it a step further and add personal requests to our trades; aside from that, we never go so cheap as to break even with what either player could trade in for. I have never had a game where any player was about to win with 10 points and another player was below 6 points. There is always a way to come back, be it largest army, longest road, or simply victory point cards...there is no pity trades, and we all have agreed that last place can suck it "Because Catan isn't just about luck; it's about skill."

PLA

Mario Party is about Bowser stealing all your friend's shit so you can laugh at him.

StockBreak

I haven't played the latest Mario Party, but it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to put in some settings that vary the level of chaos. Sort of like how Mario Kart lets you change how aggressive items are in versus mode, they can make a setting that lowers the chance the game will just hand someone first place. I'm not saying the game should be entirely skill-based, just that it should be impossible for the game to hand all of first place's stars to the guy in last place during last few turns.