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Any quadcopter fans here?

RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
It's technology so I thought I'd post here.

I'm a big fan and I was wondering if any other PA'ers were as well.

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  • HubkaHubka Registered User regular
    They look neat, but physical toys aren't really my thing.

  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015






    vhvnMFs.gif

    Quadcopters are cool!




    This one was pretty neat, it's designed to be used as a mobile camera in Search and Rescue missions. It has a protective cage around it that lets it bounce off obstacles without the obstacle or the copter taking any damage.

    Brolo on
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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Those are all very cool. One recent vid I saw that really impressed me was this one:



    I love how the guy at one point tosses a ball at the copter and it bounces it back.

    Also how he puts a glass of water on top of one and it banks and doesn't spill a drop.

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    I've personally got myself a DJI Phantom 2 Vision +.

    Also pre-ordered myself a Phantom 3 Pro. Can't wait to get it!

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  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    We have a Phantom 2 at my day job. I've crashed it numerous times, so I don't mess with it too much.

    What I want is a drone that has a heavier payload than a phantom, but not one of the crazy heavy lift copters like the S1000 or Freefly System's new Alta.

    I want to fly my Pocket Cinema camera with a light pancake wide angle lens, or the new Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera. So basically I want the drone on that product page, if it actually exists.

    Pretty sure both of those cameras are too heavy for a phantom or other GoPro drones, but they don't require a massive $8000 drone, either.

    Also, I was at the NAB Show this week, and there were drones everywhere. Freefly & DJI are the big names, but there were some impressive companies with low end and high end drones. There's lots of competition in that space now, which is awesome!

  • bobAkirafettbobAkirafett Registered User regular


    This is what makes me love quadcopters. Real life Wipeout.

    akirasig.jpg
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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    jimb213 wrote: »
    We have a Phantom 2 at my day job. I've crashed it numerous times, so I don't mess with it too much.

    What I want is a drone that has a heavier payload than a phantom, but not one of the crazy heavy lift copters like the S1000 or Freefly System's new Alta.

    I want to fly my Pocket Cinema camera with a light pancake wide angle lens, or the new Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera. So basically I want the drone on that product page, if it actually exists.

    Pretty sure both of those cameras are too heavy for a phantom or other GoPro drones, but they don't require a massive $8000 drone, either.

    Also, I was at the NAB Show this week, and there were drones everywhere. Freefly & DJI are the big names, but there were some impressive companies with low end and high end drones. There's lots of competition in that space now, which is awesome!

    The V3 version of the Phantom 2 V+ had more powerful motors than the V2 Phantom 2 V+ and could lift THREE other phantom shells in addition to its own camera:



    So I imagine you'd just need to find a gimble compatible with the Phantom. That Blackmagic camera can't weigh as much as the V+ camera plus three Phantom shells...

    NINJA EDIT:

    it looks like that black magic camera is already compatible with the DJI Phantom? At least it looks like it according to this page:
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicmicrocinemacamera/accessories

    I never heard of that black magic camera before. So it's like a gopro on steroids? It looks really awesome.

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    This is what makes me love quadcopters. Real life Wipeout.

    Super cool, for sure!

    My Phantoms don't have nearly that amount of tight-turning radius. And it's CRAZY hard to fly FPV on a small screen (a lot harder than you'd imagine based on playing video games).

    I'd be too afraid to try this unless I had a cheap DIY copter that I could easily fix myself.

    I've seen other videos where they have outdoor arenas and people bring their quadcopters to race and batle to knock other out of the air until one is left flying...

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  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    jimb213 wrote: »
    We have a Phantom 2 at my day job. I've crashed it numerous times, so I don't mess with it too much.

    What I want is a drone that has a heavier payload than a phantom, but not one of the crazy heavy lift copters like the S1000 or Freefly System's new Alta.

    I want to fly my Pocket Cinema camera with a light pancake wide angle lens, or the new Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera. So basically I want the drone on that product page, if it actually exists.

    Pretty sure both of those cameras are too heavy for a phantom or other GoPro drones, but they don't require a massive $8000 drone, either.

    Also, I was at the NAB Show this week, and there were drones everywhere. Freefly & DJI are the big names, but there were some impressive companies with low end and high end drones. There's lots of competition in that space now, which is awesome!

    The V3 version of the Phantom 2 V+ had more powerful motors than the V2 Phantom 2 V+ and could lift THREE other phantom shells in addition to its own camera:



    So I imagine you'd just need to find a gimble compatible with the Phantom. That Blackmagic camera can't weigh as much as the V+ camera plus three Phantom shells...

    NINJA EDIT:

    it looks like that black magic camera is already compatible with the DJI Phantom? At least it looks like it according to this page:
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicmicrocinemacamera/accessories

    I never heard of that black magic camera before. So it's like a gopro on steroids? It looks really awesome.

    Blackmagic has been making cameras for 3ish years now. Before, they did video I/O boxes for live & post production and make the industry standard color correction software (DaVinci Resolve). They've been pretty disruptive in the cinema camera world, offering cameras in the $1000-5000 range that have features & specs that you had to buy $10000-$50000 cameras to get prior to their splash at NAB a few years ago.

    Their latest Micro Cinema cameras are basically a further miniaturization of the Pocket Cinema Camera (which I own and really like). It's significantly bigger than a GoPro (especially after you add a lens), and won't have the slowmo features and probably won't be as bulletproof, but if it is basically my Pocket Cinema Cam shrunk down further, it offers way better picture quality & way better recording format (RAW, Apple ProRes, Avid DNxHD).

    I love aerial photography & videography, but I always cringe a little bit when I intercut GoPro footage with my footage from a good camera. It always looks like GoPro footage. I'm really excited by the possibility of using an aerial camera that perfectly matches my A-camera!

    And thanks for showing me that Phantom 2 V3 video! I'm sure that'll be able to fly the Micro Cinema Cam. Now I just need to find a 3-axis gimbal to fit it!

  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    GoPro aerial has the worst fisheye lens due to its huge field of view, my P2V+ does the same thing. I have a pretty good lens correction Photoshop profile specifically designed for my Phantom's video and stills, but it takes eons to save a vid and loses quality. The new Phantom 3 has a much narrower FOV so that fish-eye effect is almost gone.

    Do you have any recommendations for a hand-held 3-axis gimble? Even if just to hold a smartphone?

    BTW, here's an example of some footage I took with my Phantom 2 V+. You can tell I ran the lens correction on it as there is no distortion:

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  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    GoPro aerial has the worst fisheye lens due to its huge field of view, my P2V+ does the same thing. I have a pretty good lens correction Photoshop profile specifically designed for my Phantom's video and stills, but it takes eons to save a vid and loses quality. The new Phantom 3 has a much narrower FOV so that fish-eye effect is almost gone.

    Do you have any recommendations for a hand-held 3-axis gimble? Even if just to hold a smartphone?

    BTW, here's an example of some footage I took with my Phantom 2 V+. You can tell I ran the lens correction on it as there is no distortion:


    After Effects has an easy correction tool called optics compensation:


    I just played with a handheld gimbal for gopro's and phones at NAB, and they also have a pole attachement. I don't have their card handy, but I'm pretty sure it's the Feiyu available at B&H.

    Geth
  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Awesome, thanks!

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  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Drones sound awesome on paper, but in recent years so many laws have been implemented (in Denmark, probably also rest of Europe) that just flying one in a resident area can land you a hefty fine.

    Which somewhat makes it difficult to fly one legally since a lot of areas in central and greater Copenhagen are defined as resident areas. Basically, if you want to fly one, you have to go to designated areas far away from any cool building (if you want to do aerial photography) :/

    Stories like the hunt of the mysterious drones in Paris doesn't exactly make me want to invest in a drone for aerial photography.

    Yogo on
  • MorinokoMorinoko Registered User regular
    I have a little Hubsan X4 and it´s great. Haven´t flown in more than a month.. but i´m actually charing all the batteries to go out tomorrow.

    It´s a fun hobbie.

  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    By the way, I put my Phantom 2 Vision Plus up on eBay if anyone was interested.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DJI-Phantom-2-Vision-Plus-THREE-Batteries-and-MORE-Free-Shipping-in-USA-/321734307528

    If I don't sell one of my quadcopters my wife will boot me to the curb...

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Ohhhh... the P3 started shipping. Won't get mine for another couple weeks, though, since I ordered an extra battery... :(

    I'll post some sample pics when it eventually arrives.

    My P2 is still up on eBay for 2 more days if anyone is interested. (see post above this)

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Oops!

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  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    This thing...



    That is some bonkers power! The speed & maneuverability is nuts!

    Also, a buddy of mine has an Inspire 1 and posted a video to facebook of it taking off away from him. It's not crazy like the one above, but it's also very fast.

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  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    Holy crap that thing moves like a UFO. Crazy!

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular


    This is what makes me love quadcopters. Real life Return of the Jedi.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    Ordered a cheerson cx-10 mini after talking to tested.com's will smith about entry level quadcopters. Pretty excited to play with this thing once it arrives.

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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    jimb213 wrote: »
    This thing...



    That is some bonkers power! The speed & maneuverability is nuts!

    Also, a buddy of mine has an Inspire 1 and posted a video to facebook of it taking off away from him. It's not crazy like the one above, but it's also very fast.
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    Holy crap that thing moves like a UFO. Crazy!

    Brushless r/c motors and lipo battery cells have been making electric r/c cars embarrass nitro-powered r/c cars for a while now. This quadcopter is just an example of what if you had four of those setups instead of one, and 1/10th of the weight to haul around?

    You know how the Tesla S is a really fast car and it's electric? Once the next generation of batteries becomes viable (same power density as lipo without all those troublesome fire-related characteristics), electric cars are going to make even current widow-makers like the McLaren P1 look slow and boring.

    The Bugatti Veyron had 1001 horsepower but weighs as much as a truck, imagine a car the size and weight of a Miata but with 2000 horsepower?

    jimb213BroloElvenshae
  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    I love how that crazy fast drone sounds like a bunch of girls screaming "WOOOOOOOO!"

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Whelp my Phantom 2 Vision Plus sold on eBay. Sad to see it go but...

    My new Phantom 3 Pro arrives on Tuesday!

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    When Phantom 2's drop a fair bit on ebay (£300ish, may be waiting a few generations yet) I think I'll pick one up, unless anyone can suggest a fairly budget Quadcopter I can attach a GoPro to (or something that's got a camera about the same level as my GoPro Hero 2, which is hardly top of the range now)?

    I do a bit of climbing outdoors, hoping to get some more done this summer and I'd love to be able to get some fun footage when I'm out and about with friends. They look awesome fun to play with.

    ::edit:: Looks like the Phantom 1 may actually do me. Just a little put off by the 15minute flight time. I think I may sell my Rift DK 2 and pick up one of these :)

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    When Phantom 2's drop a fair bit on ebay (£300ish, may be waiting a few generations yet) I think I'll pick one up, unless anyone can suggest a fairly budget Quadcopter I can attach a GoPro to (or something that's got a camera about the same level as my GoPro Hero 2, which is hardly top of the range now)?

    I do a bit of climbing outdoors, hoping to get some more done this summer and I'd love to be able to get some fun footage when I'm out and about with friends. They look awesome fun to play with.

    ::edit:: Looks like the Phantom 1 may actually do me. Just a little put off by the 15minute flight time. I think I may sell my Rift DK 2 and pick up one of these :)

    The biggest thing that will make your video "watchable" and not look like it was filmed using a toy is a gimble. That's what helps ensure that the video isn't shaky and keeps your video straight even when turing the drone. I'd avoid anything that doesn't have a gimble if you want decent pictures or video...

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    When Phantom 2's drop a fair bit on ebay (£300ish, may be waiting a few generations yet) I think I'll pick one up, unless anyone can suggest a fairly budget Quadcopter I can attach a GoPro to (or something that's got a camera about the same level as my GoPro Hero 2, which is hardly top of the range now)?

    I do a bit of climbing outdoors, hoping to get some more done this summer and I'd love to be able to get some fun footage when I'm out and about with friends. They look awesome fun to play with.

    ::edit:: Looks like the Phantom 1 may actually do me. Just a little put off by the 15minute flight time. I think I may sell my Rift DK 2 and pick up one of these :)

    The biggest thing that will make your video "watchable" and not look like it was filmed using a toy is a gimble. That's what helps ensure that the video isn't shaky and keeps your video straight even when turing the drone. I'd avoid anything that doesn't have a gimble if you want decent pictures or video...

    I'm guessing that's a "no" to the Phantom 1 then? I'll have to hang fire till the 2 drops in price considerably.

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    When Phantom 2's drop a fair bit on ebay (£300ish, may be waiting a few generations yet) I think I'll pick one up, unless anyone can suggest a fairly budget Quadcopter I can attach a GoPro to (or something that's got a camera about the same level as my GoPro Hero 2, which is hardly top of the range now)?

    I do a bit of climbing outdoors, hoping to get some more done this summer and I'd love to be able to get some fun footage when I'm out and about with friends. They look awesome fun to play with.

    ::edit:: Looks like the Phantom 1 may actually do me. Just a little put off by the 15minute flight time. I think I may sell my Rift DK 2 and pick up one of these :)

    The biggest thing that will make your video "watchable" and not look like it was filmed using a toy is a gimble. That's what helps ensure that the video isn't shaky and keeps your video straight even when turing the drone. I'd avoid anything that doesn't have a gimble if you want decent pictures or video...

    I'm guessing that's a "no" to the Phantom 1 then? I'll have to hang fire till the 2 drops in price considerably.

    I wouldn't. This is the type of footage you'd get:


    See how shaky it is? And when it tilts the camera tilts with it.

    The Phantom 2 with a proper gimble is light years ahead of the P1. (And the P3 is again light years ahead of the P2).

    If you look above you'll see a video I took with the P2V+ (look for the thumbnail of the house). Here's another one I took with the P2V+:


    Notice how much smoother it is as a result of the gimble?

    For reference, I sold my P2V+ on eBay for $860 but it also came with three batteries, two chargers, and a whole bunch of other accessories.

    So yeah... I'd skip the P1 at this point...

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    And btw, this is what realistic personal flying machines will look like (as opposed to "flying cars):


    Seems pretty practical aside from the fact that it's big...

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    When Phantom 2's drop a fair bit on ebay (£300ish, may be waiting a few generations yet) I think I'll pick one up, unless anyone can suggest a fairly budget Quadcopter I can attach a GoPro to (or something that's got a camera about the same level as my GoPro Hero 2, which is hardly top of the range now)?

    I do a bit of climbing outdoors, hoping to get some more done this summer and I'd love to be able to get some fun footage when I'm out and about with friends. They look awesome fun to play with.

    ::edit:: Looks like the Phantom 1 may actually do me. Just a little put off by the 15minute flight time. I think I may sell my Rift DK 2 and pick up one of these :)

    The biggest thing that will make your video "watchable" and not look like it was filmed using a toy is a gimble. That's what helps ensure that the video isn't shaky and keeps your video straight even when turing the drone. I'd avoid anything that doesn't have a gimble if you want decent pictures or video...

    I'm guessing that's a "no" to the Phantom 1 then? I'll have to hang fire till the 2 drops in price considerably.

    I wouldn't. This is the type of footage you'd get:


    See how shaky it is? And when it tilts the camera tilts with it.

    The Phantom 2 with a proper gimble is light years ahead of the P1. (And the P3 is again light years ahead of the P2).

    If you look above you'll see a video I took with the P2V+ (look for the thumbnail of the house). Here's another one I took with the P2V+:


    Notice how much smoother it is as a result of the gimble?

    For reference, I sold my P2V+ on eBay for $860 but it also came with three batteries, two chargers, and a whole bunch of other accessories.

    So yeah... I'd skip the P1 at this point...

    You live in/around a very pretty place and I'm very jealous.

    I also want a Phantom 2 now... is there much to know about different versions? I'm not really up on these things. Also it looks like most of the gimbals are for the Gopro 3/4 so it looks like I'll be saving to update camera AND for one of these :)

    This is the kind of place I'd be filming (that's me! So obviously wouldn't be flying it at this point...) but I think you could get some awesome, awesome shots:

    jL0jTfZ.jpg

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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    And btw, this is what realistic personal flying machines will look like (as opposed to "flying cars):


    Seems pretty practical aside from the fact that it's big...

    Nah, I don't think so. It still has all the drawbacks of a helicopter (size, vulnerability to rotor strike/entanglement etc. that has prevented the helicopter from being much more widespread)

    The Moller Skycar is still the closest thing I think we have to what mainstream personal flying machines will look like.

  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    You're not going to get 'flying cars' for a simple reason.

    There is no way in hell it's going to be legal to fly those things over private houses/businesses.



    Same thing is happening to even the little drones in many countries, and the risk of them landing on your house is considerably less.

    Which is not entirely without merit. If I looked out the window and saw a drone buzzing above my back yard, I'd shoot it down.

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    And btw, this is what realistic personal flying machines will look like (as opposed to "flying cars):
    *video*

    Seems pretty practical aside from the fact that it's big...

    Nah, I don't think so. It still has all the drawbacks of a helicopter (size, vulnerability to rotor strike/entanglement etc. that has prevented the helicopter from being much more widespread). The Moller Skycar is still the closest thing I think we have to what mainstream personal flying machines will look like.

    I think the Skycar project is dead. When was the last time they even showed any progress on that thing, like a decade ago? Did they even show an untethered flight? Not to mention it requires fuel if I recall correctly -- the eVolo is all electric.

    I think the multi-rotor is a far safer solution and much more stable. If one blade/motor stops functioning the other can automatically compensate. Check out this amazing video showing a new Phantom 3 -- the guy strapped on a stick with a GoPro at the end to demonstrate how perfectly level the video is even during maneuvering. That's great, but what I'm most impressed about is that there is no counterweight to even out the balance issue. The Phantom is automatically compensating:

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Astale wrote: »
    You're not going to get 'flying cars' for a simple reason.

    There is no way in hell it's going to be legal to fly those things over private houses/businesses.

    Same thing is happening to even the little drones in many countries, and the risk of them landing on your house is considerably less.

    Which is not entirely without merit. If I looked out the window and saw a drone buzzing above my back yard, I'd shoot it down.

    It really depends on what the FAA says (here in the US, at least). Are airplanes not allowed to fly over houses and businesses now? Of course they are -- they just need to stay within certain altitudes above houses -- the same would likely apply here.

    And as for shooting a drone out of the sky, the law is not on your side. You'd be arrested for property damage and endangering the public by discharging a firearm. The airspace above your home doesn't belong to you, it's FAA-regulated (here in the US at least).
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/10/03/new_jersey_man_shoots_down_drone_over_his_property_gets_arrested.html
    http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/18/no-you-cant-shoot-down-drones-over-your-house/

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    You live in/around a very pretty place and I'm very jealous.

    I also want a Phantom 2 now... is there much to know about different versions? I'm not really up on these things. Also it looks like most of the gimbals are for the Gopro 3/4 so it looks like I'll be saving to update camera AND for one of these :)

    This is the kind of place I'd be filming (that's me! So obviously wouldn't be flying it at this point...) but I think you could get some awesome, awesome shots:
    Thanks, we have lots of farmland around here...

    That picture of you climbing makes me nervous! And that's also very picturesque.

    Correct, the gimbals are for newer GoPro cameras... The Phantoms have the advantage of a well-designed all-in-one solution if you go with a Vision model. The GoPro versions have the advantage of being able to upgrade the camera since it's not hard-wired...

    Your best bet is probably a used Phantom 2. Keep in mind that the Vision Plus model and the GoPro models have a ton of fish-eye lens. I use a lot of post-processing to fix this. The new Phantom 3 doesn't have this fish-eye lens. Another option is the 3DR Solo, but that winds up being even more expensive.

    Prices will come down. DJI released a V2 and a V3 of the Phantom 2 Vision before finally announcing the Phantom 3. And each time the previous version get cheaper (even the unsold new ones).

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    Astale wrote: »
    You're not going to get 'flying cars' for a simple reason.

    There is no way in hell it's going to be legal to fly those things over private houses/businesses.

    Same thing is happening to even the little drones in many countries, and the risk of them landing on your house is considerably less.

    Which is not entirely without merit. If I looked out the window and saw a drone buzzing above my back yard, I'd shoot it down.

    It really depends on what the FAA says (here in the US, at least). Are airplanes not allowed to fly over houses and businesses now? Of course they are -- they just need to stay within certain altitudes above houses -- the same would likely apply here.

    And as for shooting a drone out of the sky, the law is not on your side. You'd be arrested for property damage and endangering the public by discharging a firearm. The airspace above your home doesn't belong to you, it's FAA-regulated (here in the US at least).
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/10/03/new_jersey_man_shoots_down_drone_over_his_property_gets_arrested.html
    http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/18/no-you-cant-shoot-down-drones-over-your-house/

    I doubt you would get public opinion on your side enough for person flight devices. I know I sure as hell don't want the average person to be flying over my house, most of those people can barely drive along a straight level surface without hitting anything.

    Airplanes/helicopters get away with it due to them being "highly trained" pilots and have regular maintenance by professionals, and even those experience failure that causes them to crash into peoples homes.

    Elvenshae
  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    It's FAA -controlled airspace. Of course you'd need a license to fly.

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2015
    That doesn't mean I suddenly trust the average person more. You need a license to drive a car, yet people do without all the time and still don't follow the laws.

    Morkath on
  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    But average people go through training to get a pilot's license. I don't see the difference. You go through training to get a license for a plane of a license for a helicopter.

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    Donovan Puppyfucker
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Ordered a cheerson cx-10 mini after talking to tested.com's will smith about entry level quadcopters. Pretty excited to play with this thing once it arrives.

    I was seriously considering getting all of my groomsmen the SKEYE Nano as a groomsman gift, but I have been reading some people say it is exactly the same as the Cheerson CX-10 for double the price. (Edit: Actually, looking again, make that three times the price.) @firewaterword have you got your CX-10 yet? Any impressions you can share?

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
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