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[PA Comic] Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - The Wisdom Of Crowds

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited May 2015 in The Penny Arcade Hub

image [PA Comic] Wednesday, May 6, 2015 - The Wisdom Of Crowds

The Wisdom Of Crowds

The Wisdom Of Crowds

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2015/05/06

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • RottonappleRottonapple Registered User regular
    I was not aware of this. I really don't care about celebs or their blogging habits, but just out of morbid curiosity, what was it that asspained him so badly as to make him rage quit Twitter?

  • Leon2309Leon2309 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Apparently, according to Joss himself, nothing said on twitter made him leave. He either left due to wanting to focus on writing or issues with Marvel, not sure which. However, he did apparently get threats for things that happen in Avengers 2. I would provide links, but on my phone. May come back and add them later if necessary.

    About the comic itself: I agree with Gabe here, the artist is usually there own worst critic, I know that from experience.

    Leon2309 on
    KoopahTroopahCalicaJacques L'Homme
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    NcMduHJ.gif
    Steam - Battle.net - Koopah089 - PSN - KoopahTroopah - Smash Bros WiiU
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  • ziddersroofurryziddersroofurry Registered User regular
    Even if Joss didn't leave because of all the hate being levied his way this comic is still pretty spot on. Amazing how one minute he's a great ally, and then the next he's chum in a shark tank.

    Bobble
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I generally approve of anyone dropping off a social media website. The less people who use them, the less people will feel like they have to, the sooner we can all come to our senses and start using some kind of widely adopted, company agnostic standard api for social features in arbitrary websites, instead of some site get organically large (facebook/twitter) and everyone then trying to inject its "socialness" into *every* other website.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    This comic is 100% true, especially Gabe's final comment.

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    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
  • Soul SanctumSoul Sanctum Registered User regular
    This comic is perfect to me. I've been trying to get away from social media.
    I usually just use it when I'm bored at work or I don't have enough time to put into something more constructive, and it's so easy to get sucked in.
    I find interesting things a lot of times, but sometimes it's just not worth the bewilderment and disgust many of the denizens generate.

  • PAX_SkeletorPAX_Skeletor Melbourne, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Does anyone else see Tycho in the last panel as having his cheek smooshed all the way up on their monitor? I know he's actually eating pizza, but that is the first thing that jumped into my head :-)

  • darleysamdarleysam UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Age of Ultron was okay, I don't think its failings were Whedon's fault, the accusations that it's sexist are bunk of the highest order from people looking to make themselves feel really big, and I don't begrudge the guy for wanting to leave Twitter if all the utter toss being slung his way should turn out to be the cause.

    edit: I would like to edit this post in light of new information, but have decided against it. It's ironic that I accuse others of misunderstanding a situation when my response here is borne out of my own misunderstanding of a situation. So, you know, let the record show.

    darleysam on
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  • Stone WallStone Wall Registered User new member
    Yup, loving Tycho in this one.

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Charging Star! Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    From what I understand, certain people took issue with how Black Widow was portrayed.
    Apparently she was a baby-crazy damsel in distress in the movie. Even though she was on of the most badass ass-kickingest people in the film

    I thought Age of Ultron was way better than the first one. Super pumped for Infinity War, but that's three years away :( Civil War should be good, but I don't want to see Cap and Iron Man fight... I'm also worried they're going to kill off Steve and have Bucky replace him like in the comics. A friend told me Civil War is the last movie on Chris Evans' contract. Not sure where he heard that, but it's worrisome!

    Skull2185 on
    eldercore
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    You know what will help Joss Whedon sleep real well tonight. the millions of dollars he is making on Avengers 2.

    Smrtnik
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    It had nothing to do with feminists; that was a load of contrived BS started by a garblegator.

    A Dabble Of TheloniusMegaMekCrippl3
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Edit: this post had been answered and given clarity further in the thread. No need to answer it again, unless someone missed something.

    Skull2185 wrote: »
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    From what I understand, certain people took issue with how Black Widow was portrayed.
    Apparently she was a baby-crazy damsel in distress in the movie. Even though she was on of the most badass ass-kickingest people in the film

    I thought Age of Ultron was way better than the first one. Super pumped for Infinity War, but that's three years away :( Civil War should be good, but I don't want to see Cap and Iron Man fight... I'm also worried they're going to kill off Steve and have Bucky replace him like in the comics. A friend told me Civil War is the last movie on Chris Evans' contract. Not sure where he heard that, but it's worrisome!

    My info's secondhand, but apparently she has a line where she tells Bruce (the Hulk) that she's also a monster
    because she was forcibly sterilized

    Might be that I've been misinformed, but if true... Wow, that's some pretty terrible writing.

    Enlong on
    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • LinktmLinktm Registered User regular
    I saw Age of Ultron at an 11 PM showing and got bored to near sleep by the final 30ish minutes. Yes there ARE feminists upset about the movie, but I don't think they're the ones on twitter telling Joss Whedon to shove a dick up his ass or other homophobic slurs, that seems way too "dudebro CoD Chat ", probably just people trying to stir up the pot again. Anyways, here's the complaints:
    1. People are outraged that Hawkeye's wife, and one of the women on screen as much as Black Widow is a caretaker/barefoot & pregnant (literally) character.

    2. Hawkeye's super nuclear family and perfect life also upset people. This is more so because it sort of becomes this point of the plot where it makes everyone else feel like their life is damaged. Tony Stark and Captain America pine for the life Hawkeye has, assuming that Agent Carter and Pepper Potts would be willing to throw their careers away for them to go live on a quiet farm somewhere, etc.

    3. After Hawkeye's big reveal that he has a token perfect family Black Widow reveals to Bruce Banner that when she was being trained to be a super assassin at the age of 13 in Russia that she was made sterile (I assume a hysterectomy) and goes on to talk about how she's a freak because of it and that she can never have kids, etc.

    4. Unrelated to feminism, there was this really out of place Cave scene that was in the film where Thor goes on a vision quest half-naked and sees a bunch of post-apocalyptic visions related to the Infinity Gems. It's a scene that a lot of people who weren't huge nerds were confused about and something Joss fought to keep out of the film despite Marvel's insistence that it NEEDED to be in the film. It was also HEAVILY edited down because it tested poorly with audiences. But, it's the big advertisement for Avengers 3 or whatever so they kept it in.

    5. Also unrelated to feminism, Ultron has as much depth as Malekith from Thor 2. This is mostly because the film spends a lot more screen time on the above listed issues and not the story of Ultron.


    Tinkles
  • NeuroskepticNeuroskeptic Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Age of Ultron was okay, I don't think its failings were Whedon's fault, the accusations that it's sexist are bunk of the highest order from people looking to make themselves feel really big, and I don't begrudge the guy for wanting to leave Twitter if all the utter toss being slung his way should turn out to be the cause.
    Then he shouldn't have joined Twitter in the first place. Whenever anyone quits Twitter in circumstances like this I think, what did you expect? And if you have something to say on Twitter, stick by it, or don't say it in the first place.

  • darleysamdarleysam UKRegistered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    From what I understand, certain people took issue with how Black Widow was portrayed.
    Apparently she was a baby-crazy damsel in distress in the movie. Even though she was on of the most badass ass-kickingest people in the film

    I thought Age of Ultron was way better than the first one. Super pumped for Infinity War, but that's three years away :( Civil War should be good, but I don't want to see Cap and Iron Man fight... I'm also worried they're going to kill off Steve and have Bucky replace him like in the comics. A friend told me Civil War is the last movie on Chris Evans' contract. Not sure where he heard that, but it's worrisome!

    My info's secondhand, but apparently she has a line where she tells Bruce (the Hulk) that she's also a monster
    because she was forcibly sterilized

    Might be that I've been misinformed, but if true... Wow, that's some pretty terrible writing.

    While those two points come in close proximity, that's not exactly what or how it is said. There's a bigger point being made that is being missed when people conflate those two bits.

    forumsig.png
    BobbleKalTorakLeon2309Calicafortymare_imbrium
  • YoungFreyYoungFrey Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    It had nothing to do with feminists; that was a load of contrived BS started by a garblegator.

    I saw a few posts saying Joss Whedon quitting (ostensibly because of harassment from feminists) took away any moral high ground feminists might have over GurbleGicks. That alone makes me think they are behind it.

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    From what I understand, certain people took issue with how Black Widow was portrayed.
    Apparently she was a baby-crazy damsel in distress in the movie. Even though she was on of the most badass ass-kickingest people in the film

    I thought Age of Ultron was way better than the first one. Super pumped for Infinity War, but that's three years away :( Civil War should be good, but I don't want to see Cap and Iron Man fight... I'm also worried they're going to kill off Steve and have Bucky replace him like in the comics. A friend told me Civil War is the last movie on Chris Evans' contract. Not sure where he heard that, but it's worrisome!

    My info's secondhand, but apparently she has a line where she tells Bruce (the Hulk) that she's also a monster
    because she was forcibly sterilized

    Might be that I've been misinformed, but if true... Wow, that's some pretty terrible writing.

    While those two points come in close proximity, that's not exactly what or how it is said. There's a bigger point being made that is being missed when people conflate those two bits.

    Ah. See, I am working on secondhand accounts. What's the larger point?

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I pre-emptively forbid this thread from being about either feminism or gamergate.

    EvigilantDark Raven XRisenPhoenixAegeriCommander Zoom
  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    From what I understand, certain people took issue with how Black Widow was portrayed.
    Apparently she was a baby-crazy damsel in distress in the movie. Even though she was on of the most badass ass-kickingest people in the film

    I thought Age of Ultron was way better than the first one. Super pumped for Infinity War, but that's three years away :( Civil War should be good, but I don't want to see Cap and Iron Man fight... I'm also worried they're going to kill off Steve and have Bucky replace him like in the comics. A friend told me Civil War is the last movie on Chris Evans' contract. Not sure where he heard that, but it's worrisome!

    My info's secondhand, but apparently she has a line where she tells Bruce (the Hulk) that she's also a monster
    because she was forcibly sterilized

    Might be that I've been misinformed, but if true... Wow, that's some pretty terrible writing.

    While those two points come in close proximity, that's not exactly what or how it is said. There's a bigger point being made that is being missed when people conflate those two bits.

    Ah. See, I am working on secondhand accounts. What's the larger point?

    My understanding was
    She was referring to all of what her training did to her, not just the sterilization. The one that stood out to me was shooting some sort of tied up hostage/prisoner as part of her graduation ceremony.

    I don't think the sterilization was specifically what she was referring to, though it would obviously be part of the emotional scars she carries.

    Skull2185GaslightPraxus1874StockBreakdarleysamComradebotLeon2309Dark Raven XCalicafortySmrtnikAlbino Bunny
  • darleysamdarleysam UKRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I pre-emptively forbid this thread from being about either feminism or gamergate.

    Would it be alright if I posted an article where Whedon clarifies his reasons for leaving? The short of it is that it wasn't some feminist-led attack, but a desire to reclaim some of his personal life.

    forumsig.png
  • BolerBoler Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I pre-emptively forbid this thread from being about either feminism or gamergate.

    How about, from now on, when a group attacks someone, we just call them assholes.

    Because that's the group they actually belong in for harassing people regardless of what they might say they stand for.

    DistecPAX_SkeletorSmrtnik
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    Whedon himself has hardly been a neutral player in past examples of internet hostility.

    The fact that this seems to have opened up his own work for scrutinization and hypercriticism would seem to be a poetic justice.

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    People didn't like Avengers 2?

    ...is that possible? I mean it's not as good as the first one, but it's still a good blockbuster.

    I didn't like it, but I don't really like blockbuster action films or super hero films so that was no surprise! (I had a gift card and friends wanted to go). It seemed like an average offering for the genre though.

  • StockBreakStockBreak Registered User regular
    I agree with mRahmani
    The point of that whole scene was that Black Widow had been severely damaged by her training. While she doesn't tell Banner this, a flashback strongly implies her instructors made her kill a man. And point of discussing her sterilization isn't that she wanted children, but the choice was taken away from her.

    And I never got the idea that Tony and Steve wanted Peggy and Pepper to give up their careers and become housewives, but both guys would like a stable home life. Tony's home was blown up in the last Iron Man movie with Pepper there while Steve can't seem to even connect with a woman romantically, let alone marry one.

    I enjoyed the movie but it definitely has some major issues.

    Gaslightforty
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Enlong wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    While those two points come in close proximity, that's not exactly what or how it is said. There's a bigger point being made that is being missed when people conflate those two bits.

    Ah. See, I am working on secondhand accounts. What's the larger point?

    Yeah, as other people have said that's one uncertain interpretation of a larger scene. I just saw the movie, so I'll try to summarize how I remember it going:
    She talks about her training, mentioning how they sterilized her because it was more efficient; a child would be something she might care about more than the job. We get flashbacks of her training, and she says that having nothing else made it easier to kill, and they wanted to create a killer. At the end, she looks at Bruce and says "Still think you're the only monster here?"

    So yeah, she talks about being sterilized, and then talks about being a monster, but it's only "sterilized woman = monster" if you're looking for something to be outraged at and decide to ignore everything else

    Bremen on
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  • MerneithMerneith Registered User regular
    Buzzfeed article where Joss says it weren't the feminists -
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/joss-whedon-on-leaving-twitter#.qh3eQd8LDR

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Bremen wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    While those two points come in close proximity, that's not exactly what or how it is said. There's a bigger point being made that is being missed when people conflate those two bits.

    Ah. See, I am working on secondhand accounts. What's the larger point?

    Yeah, as other people have said that's one uncertain interpretation of a larger scene. I just saw the movie, so I'll try to summarize how I remember it going:
    She talks about her training, mentioning how they sterilized her because it was more efficient; a child would be something she might care about more than the job. We get flashbacks of her training, and she says that having nothing else made it easier to kill, and they wanted to create a killer. At the end, she looks at Bruce and says "Still think you're the only monster here?"

    So yeah, she talks about being sterilized, and then talks about being a monster, but it's only "sterilized woman = monster" if you're looking for something to be outraged at and decide to ignore everything else

    Well, that's certainly better, yes.

    Seeing it spelled out, I think it would've been cool if the story had ended with something like "I've seen real monsters."

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    Tinkles
  • Milamber_29Milamber_29 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    I have to admit i liked age of ultron (though i do a bit agree that ultron didnt get enough screen time but that's a minor criticism)

    what i DO have a problem with though is the criticism aimed at it for dumb reasons:
    1. Hawkeye apparently isnt allowed to have a perfect nuclear family...as though somehow HOW DARE HE have something good to fight for? Apparently at some point not only has the nuclear family with a caretaker wife doing all the work while the husband is away is not only uncommon but is now INSULTING to depict....da fk?

    2. I don't think that black widow was intentionally portrayed as being a monster for not being able to have children....but sure as hell its something a woman (or indeed a man) who is sterile could legitimately feel in that situation. we all know and in fact im sure black widow knows that it doesnt make her worthless or broken to be sterile but when you want a family is exactly the kind of thing that would make someone FEEL that way and its not helpful to say that people in movies should not represent a realistic reaction to having that done to you against your will.
    [\spoiler]

    Milamber_29 on
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  • thepuregamerthepuregamer Registered User regular
    Main problem with Avengers is the same one that all Marvel movies have so far suffered from. Its called wimpy villain syndrome. The most intense and closely matched fight of the entire movie was hulkbuster ironman vs hulk. Every other fight between an avenger and ultron carried minimal suspense.

    Also, how many movies can marvel regurgitate the same villains at us? Iron man 1, the villain is in an iron man suit of a sort. Iron man 2, the villain uses a host of iron man suits. Now we have avengers 2 age of ultron and once again a bunch of iron man suits. Only difference, no one is inside them this time. Also why are ironman suits so delicate when tony stark isn't in them? When he wears a suit, it is bullet proof and can even take a few hits from thor or even the hulk. When he is not wearing the suit, hand guns take them down and people without super strength can break them with their fist.

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Main problem with Avengers is the same one that all Marvel movies have so far suffered from. Its called wimpy villain syndrome. The most intense and closely matched fight of the entire movie was hulkbuster ironman vs hulk. Every other fight between an avenger and ultron carried minimal suspense.

    Also, how many movies can marvel regurgitate the same villains at us? Iron man 1, the villain is in an iron man suit of a sort. Iron man 2, the villain uses a host of iron man suits. Now we have avengers 2 age of ultron and once again a bunch of iron man suits. Only difference, no one is inside them this time. Also why are ironman suits so delicate when tony stark isn't in them? When he wears a suit, it is bullet proof and can even take a few hits from thor or even the hulk. When he is not wearing the suit, hand guns take them down and people without super strength can break them with their fist.

    The ones Tony wears are the newest, most-upgraded versions, and the other ones are outmoded junk by this point?

    That, or they're adhering to the Law of Inverse Ninjutsu, which stipulates that there is weakness in numbers, especially if you're nameless and identical.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    Commander Zoom
  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    It will never cease to amaze me the lengths people will go to in order to find/event a reason to get all flustered.

    Black Widow in AoU:
    What kind of mental gymnastics are performed to go sterilized woman=monster? That thought process never crossed my mind, as it just struck me as an example showing the horrors she's endured in her life, starting from when she was just a child. She's a "monster" because of the horrifying shit she's been through and done in her life, not simply because "Omg I can't have the babies!".

    Sometimes I think Gabe was on the right track:

    343138225_GPuBW-1050x10000.jpg

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    I'd say the monsters are the ones that did all that shit to a child, moreso than the person that child became.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    Leon2309Dark Raven XGaslightCommander Zoom
  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell CharlottesvilleRegistered User regular
    Whedon himself has hardly been a neutral player in past examples of internet hostility.

    The fact that this seems to have opened up his own work for scrutinization and hypercriticism would seem to be a poetic justice.

    this does not logically follow even in the slightest.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
    darleysamCalicaagoaj
  • Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Man I really must be just the most naive silly goose ever, I thought I watched a movie about superheroes and thoroughly enjoyed it and thought nothing more on it.

    Blackhawk1313 on
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  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    I have to admit i liked age of ultron (though i do a bit agree that ultron didnt get enough screen time but that's a minor criticism)

    what i DO have a problem with though is the criticism aimed at it for dumb reasons:
    1. Hawkeye apparently isnt allowed to have a perfect nuclear family...as though somehow HOW DARE HE have something good to fight for? Apparently at some point not only has the nuclear family with a caretaker wife doing all the work while the husband is away is not only uncommon but is now INSULTING to depict....da fk?

    2. I don't think that black widow was intentionally portrayed as being a monster for not being able to have children....but sure as hell its something a woman (or indeed a man) who is sterile could legitimately feel in that situation. we all know and in fact im sure black widow knows that it doesnt make her worthless or broken to be sterile but when you want a family is exactly the kind of thing that would make someone FEEL that way and its not helpful to say that people in movies should not represent a realistic reaction to having that done to you against your will.
    [\spoiler]

    That's the Culture War for you.

    Any work of art that does not promote a socially constructive agenda, as determined by the fickle and inconsistent hivemind of the internet, supports the opposing agenda by default, and is therefore an acceptable target for aggression.

    Artists aren't allowed to create realistic or flawed protagonists anymore, because all art is assumed to be some form of propaganda, regardless of whether or not it's actually intended as such.

    GaslightDistec
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    That sure is a position.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    QuidCalicaTofystedethRisenPhoenixMegaMekCommander ZoomTychoCelchuuuAlbino Bunny
  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell CharlottesvilleRegistered User regular
    That's the Culture War for you.

    Any work of art that does not promote a socially constructive agenda, as determined by the fickle and inconsistent hivemind of the internet, supports the opposing agenda by default, and is therefore an acceptable target for aggression.

    Artists aren't allowed to create realistic or flawed protagonists anymore, because all art is assumed to be some form of propaganda, regardless of whether or not it's actually intended as such.

    this is entirely unsupported by logic or pretty much anything

    if an artist has made the decision to publish her or his work publicly, for public consumption, this does not make the work immune or unassailable from criticism. to even claim such is absurd. art doesn't happen in a vacuum. it's the culmination of both the artist and how the audience sees and reacts to the work. doesn't matter if the work happens to be a summer blockbuster, a PA strip, the Illiad, or whatever.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
    QuidCalicaMegaMekdarleysam
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X The woods are lovely dark and deepRegistered User regular
    I wonder if Joss gets a disproportionate amount of shit for his field? I guess his demographic is nerds and nerds are more likely to be dicks on the internet about something.

    And miles to go before I sleep.
    fightinfilipinoMegaMekdarleysam
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