So you had Walternate, Fauxlivia, what could barry be?
There is only one choice.
Hello, Other Barry.
+20
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited February 2016
There's an interesting theory I read online a while back. So check it: traditionally, in DC, Earth-2 was the home of the Justice Society, the older DC heroes from the Golden Age comics of the 30's - like the Jay Garrick Flash, the Alan Scott Green Lantern with the ring that's magical instead of alien, the golden age Atom who's a midget strongman instead of a size-changer, etc. In that Earth-2, the 30's heroes are either still alive and active in the modern day (like Superman and Jay Garrick), or they lived out their natural lifespans and had kids or grandkids who continue the legacy in the present. When Huntress first appeared in comics, for instance, she was the adult daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle, who were now senior citizens.
So it seemed like this show was leaning that way at first.
But there's another possibility.
(speculation)
This could be the other Earth-2 - not an alternate timeline, but the mirror-image antimatter Earth where black is white and good is evil. The Earth, originally known as Earth-3, that's home to the Crime Syndicate of Amerika.
On that Earth, people who are traditionally heroes on Earth-1 are villains, and the villains are heroes (or victims). So Lex Luthor is the underdog vigilante trying to take down Overman, and the Red Hood (the Joker) is the grim urban avenger fighting the rule of Owlman. But even on that Earth, Joker and Lex Luthor don't get to win - the villains take what they want from the world more or less with impunity. The world is a fundamentally darker place, and even its heroes are kind of tainted or are barely in control of themselves.
So we have a city ruled by Zoom and his henchmen Cisco, Caitlyn, and Ronnie, and defended by its hapless protectors Mayor Snart and Floyd Lawton. The city's one hero, The Flash, is the mirror image of a dude (Hunter Zolomon) who is or will be a villain in the main world, and Garrick himself is addicted to a speed drug.
Johnny Quick
The counterpart of the Flash. Pre-Crisis, the criminal Earth-Three Quick was the counterpart of the Barry Allen Flash though was not as fast as Allen. He wore an enhancement helmet that augmented his above human speed but could not break the lightspeed or dimensional barriers on his own even with the helmet's augmentation.[37] His specific birth name was never revealed in-panel. Each post-Crisis Johnny Quick maintains his superpowers with the use of "Speed Juice", a powerful stimulant which was made from the blood of his murdered predecessor.
Now, that doesn't mean every single good person on Earth-1 is automatically evil in the antimatter Earth; it's mainly just the superpowered people. And in the comics, it's not exactly a Star Trek "Mirror, Mirror" situation where every character is "themselves" - Ultraman isn't Kal-El from Krypton but a human astronaut who got powers a different way, Owlman is Thomas Wayne's other son (and Bruce Wayne is the good-hearted police commissioner out to catch him), Power Ring is just some dude who got a magic ring, etc. So the fact that Joe and Iris and Wells seem to be fundamentally ok people in both universes - if a bit edgier and tougher on Earth-2 - doesn't necessarily contradict any of this. And I was really interested by Joe's allusion to the possibility that Earth-2 Barry might be kind of an asshole.
I mean, this is the TV show's world so it has whatever properties they want it to have. It doesn't have to "be" anything. But the more we see, the more I think they're drawing from this well rather than Earth-2 simply being a world where things shook out a little differently and there are different color filters on the outdoor shots.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all shakes out. I'm sure next episode is going to be full of rich, loamy fodder for future speculation.
There's an interesting theory I read online a while back. So check it: traditionally, in DC, Earth-2 was the home of the Justice Society, the older DC heroes from the Golden Age comics of the 30's - like the Jay Garrick Flash, the Alan Scott Green Lantern with the ring that's magical instead of alien, the golden age Atom who's a midget strongman instead of a size-changer, etc. In that Earth-2, the 30's heroes are either still alive and active in the modern day (like Superman and Jay Garrick), or they lived out their natural lifespans and had kids or grandkids who continue the legacy in the present. When Huntress first appeared in comics, for instance, she was the adult daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle, who were now senior citizens.
So it seemed like this show was leaning that way at first.
But there's another possibility.
(speculation)
This could be the other Earth-2 - not an alternate timeline, but the mirror-image antimatter Earth where black is white and good is evil. The Earth, originally known as Earth-3, that's home to the Crime Syndicate of Amerika.
On that Earth, people who are traditionally heroes on Earth-1 are villains, and the villains are heroes (or victims). So Lex Luthor is the underdog vigilante trying to take down Overman, and the Red Hood (the Joker) is the grim urban avenger fighting the rule of Owlman. But even on that Earth, Joker and Lex Luthor don't get to win - the villains take what they want from the world more or less with impunity. The world is a fundamentally darker place, and even its heroes are kind of tainted or are barely in control of themselves.
So we have a city ruled by Zoom and his henchmen Cisco, Caitlyn, and Ronnie, and defended by its hapless protectors Mayor Snart and Floyd Lawton. The city's one hero, The Flash, is the mirror image of a dude (Hunter Zolomon) who is or will be a villain in the main world, and Garrick himself is addicted to a speed drug.
Johnny Quick
The counterpart of the Flash. Pre-Crisis, the criminal Earth-Three Quick was the counterpart of the Barry Allen Flash though was not as fast as Allen. He wore an enhancement helmet that augmented his above human speed but could not break the lightspeed or dimensional barriers on his own even with the helmet's augmentation.[37] His specific birth name was never revealed in-panel. Each post-Crisis Johnny Quick maintains his superpowers with the use of "Speed Juice", a powerful stimulant which was made from the blood of his murdered predecessor.
Now, that doesn't mean every single good person on Earth-1 is automatically evil in the antimatter Earth; it's mainly just the superpowered people. And in the comics, it's not exactly a Star Trek "Mirror, Mirror" situation where every character is "themselves" - Ultraman isn't Kal-El from Krypton but a human astronaut who got powers a different way, Owlman is Thomas Wayne's other son (and Bruce Wayne is the good-hearted police commissioner out to catch him), Power Ring is just some dude who got a magic ring, etc. So the fact that Joe and Iris and Wells seem to be fundamentally ok people in both universes - if a bit edgier and tougher on Earth-2 - doesn't necessarily contradict any of this. And I was really interested by Joe's allusion to the possibility that Earth-2 Barry might be kind of an asshole.
I mean, this is the TV show's world so it has whatever properties they want it to have. It doesn't have to "be" anything. But the more we see, the more I think they're drawing from this well rather than Earth-2 simply being a world where things shook out a little differently and there are different color filters on the outdoor shots.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all shakes out. I'm sure next episode is going to be full of rich, loamy fodder for future speculation.
I'm pretty sure
Earth-2 Harrison Wells' daughter Jesse will become Jesse Quick (in the comics, she is Johnny Quick's daughter)
Jay Garrick isn't Jay Garrick, he's Hunter Zolomon. Why would his double have a completely different first and last name? There is no way that everyone else and I mean everyone else has the same name but this ONE guy has a different name. Ridiculous.
Hunter invented the Jay Garrick persona to provide a means of eliminating people who refused to deal with him. If you refuse to help him do what he wants, Hunter sends Jay after you. Jay takes you out but leaves you available or future use.
Why does he know what the effects of Velocity 6 are? Because he has been using it to fake being without the Speed Force.
He used his superspeed to break the Speed Cannon trapping Barry and Cisco on Earth 2. He knows that Wells double-crossed him so he decided to trap him on Earth-2, so that he could drain him at his leisure.
Jay Garrick is Zoom.
0
Options
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
I hope we find out who Zoom is soon, like next episode. I do not want to wait anymore, and I super don't want to wait until like the finale or something.
I hope we find out who Zoom is soon, like next episode. I do not want to wait anymore, and I super don't want to wait until like the finale or something.
Yeah I don't want to wait until our lives may be over, I want to know right who zoom is...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Jay Garrick isn't Jay Garrick, he's Hunter Zolomon. Why would his double have a completely different first and last name? There is no way that everyone else and I mean everyone else has the same name but this ONE guy has a different name. Ridiculous.
Hunter invented the Jay Garrick persona to provide a means of eliminating people who refused to deal with him. If you refuse to help him do what he wants, Hunter sends Jay after you. Jay takes you out but leaves you available or future use.
Why does he know what the effects of Velocity 6 are? Because he has been using it to fake being without the Speed Force.
He used his superspeed to break the Speed Cannon trapping Barry and Cisco on Earth 2. He knows that Wells double-crossed him so he decided to trap him on Earth-2, so that he could drain him at his leisure.
Jay Garrick is Zoom.
Nah he pushes Caitlyn out of the way and they can both see it having problems. Hunter Zolomon might be, but I doubt Jay Garrick is.
Also as to what wasn't mentioned before
Was iron mask guy tapping out morse code? Can anyone figure it out?
Zoom is alternative universe Barry who stops reverse flash from killing his mom. It's why the flash fighting him in the past stopped current flash from doing it.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I don't think anyone has mentioned about this episode, how about that
Man in the Iron Mask that Zoom had locked up in his dungeon?
Yeah it was an interesting flip, I'm sure he'll be a big reveal and we'll find out someone is not who they say they are.
Insane theory that I don't want to be true:
The Man in the Iron Mask is the Real Jay Garrick. The Jay we know is actually Hunter Zolomon/Zoom, and seeing Hunter in the park was a speed mirage to throw off Caitlin when she realized that Earth-1 Jay was nowhere to be found.
I wouldn't want it to be something like this first because that's waaaay too close to Thawne/Wells last season, and also because it doesn't seem like Zoom would be the type to put on that kind of act.
Maybe Zoom is Earth-2 Felicity. Boom. We can all go home now.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Dramatic conservation suggests that the man in the iron mask is the real person that Zoom replaced at some point this season, but that seems to rule out anyone who we've seen two of, including Garrick (unless "Hunter Zolomon" was a speed mirage or a hologram or something).
Dramatic conservation suggests that the man in the iron mask is the real person that Zoom replaced at some point this season, but that seems to rule out anyone who we've seen two of, including Garrick (unless "Hunter Zolomon" was a speed mirage or a hologram or something).
Zoom is Earth 2 Eddie and he's faking Barry out by being in the cell and outside of it to throw Barry off before betraying him at a crucial moment right before he tells Iris he loves the smell of her farts.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Dramatic conservation suggests that the man in the iron mask is the real person that Zoom replaced at some point this season, but that seems to rule out anyone who we've seen two of, including Garrick (unless "Hunter Zolomon" was a speed mirage or a hologram or something).
Zoom is Earth 2 Eddie and he's faking Barry out by being in the cell and outside of it to throw Barry off before betraying him at a crucial moment right before he tells Iris he loves the smell of her farts.
He would speed force his flash stick through a thousands miles of broken glass just to hear her fart through a walkie talkie
Man, I was really super convinced that Earth-2 Joe was Zoom.
One thing that really kind of icked me out though. This is similar to @Feral 's musings about Force powers in TFA compared to Killgrave in Jessica Jones
So, I'm kind of creeped out when I think about all of the making out Barry-1 and Iris-2 were doing. Like, I get it, they are doppelgangers....but it's pretty clearly established that while they are very similar people, they are also kind of different. Barry-2 seems like more of a dick, or at least more awkward and self-serving than Barry-1. The point of this is that man, it is whole new levels of awkward watching someone kiss and undress in front of who they think is their husband...but isn't. I know it is supposed to be lighthearted and fun, but it just kind of reminds me of the awkward scene with Barry undressing and redressing caitlyn when she was drunk.
Which sucks, because the rest of the episode was solid gold. Joe-2 and Barry-2's relationship, Iris being awesome as fuck, Reverb, Mayor Snart, Deadshot....hell, everything else about this episode had me grinning.
My money on Mask Man is it's Earth-2 Diggle. Earth-1 Diggle already wears a similar mask for his Spartan persona, and I seem to recall hearing that the actor was going to be on Flash again.
0
Options
kaceypwe stayed bright as lightningwe sang loud as thunderRegistered Userregular
I've got it.
Zoom is Jay Garrick, who is actually Earth-2 Eobard Thawne from the future, replacing both the real Earth-2 Jay and the real Zoom, who is Hunter Zolomon, who is Earth-1 Jay.
I always liked the theory that Zoom is Other Barry's dad, but I think this episode probably put that to bed (I had been picturing a scenario where his dad is/was the flash, then thawne killed his wife, driving him off the deep end.)
also there better be at least one 'Other Barry' joke this season
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I'd actually be fine with them never showing us who Zoom is.
Just beat him without finding out who he really is. I'd take that over a last-minute reveal that it's actually Earth-2 Oliver Queen or something.
Oh man, they could be setting up the ultimate tease/fuck you:
Earth 2 Diggle is a Green Lantern.
Except
Hal was one of the names on Barry's speed dial.
Clark wasn't though, which was odd.
Pretty sure that was just an Easter egg.
Really, what is the likelihood of Earth-2 Barry knowing Wonder Woman, Batman, AND Green Lantern?
Well,
assuming Jay is telling the truth and he's The Flash (see earlier theory upthread) this is basically JSA-time, where the JLA doesn't exist. Diana is a stretch (since she'd be on Paradise Island), and Bruce (who wasn't in the first iteration of the League) is to a lesser extent, Hal being Barry's friend is not outside the realm of possibility, ring or not.
+1
Options
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
All I know is that if we get a flash/supergirl crossover, then we BETTER GODDAMN WELL get a crossover where Oliver has to train Supergirl and shoots a kryptonite arrow into her back shoulder because she doesn't fucking look at her surroundings first.
They were both on Glee I believe. To be fair Gustin has chemistry with just about everyone on the cast.
Though to be fair I bought the Iris/Barry relationship in earth 2 with Iris being the aggressor more than I've ever bought it on OG earth.
Iris's wardrobe this episode was daaaaannnnggg.
I liked the buttons on her bulletproof vest.
Earth 2 seems to be inspired by the Burton Batman and Batman: TAS.
Love earth 2 aesthetic so much.
You know, from their perspective it's Earth 1 aesthetic.
0
Options
kaceypwe stayed bright as lightningwe sang loud as thunderRegistered Userregular
Unrelated to the current goings-on, but I super hope that at some point the team meets the pre-Reverse Flash Eobard Thawne who still idolizes The Flash.
having not watched the last three or four episodes, at this point the speculation in the thread appears to be a kind of mad libs word soup of hilarious made-up names.
Here's the issue with the idea that Jay Garrick is actually Zoom, if I'm understanding the current theories correctly.
Barry closed every single portal between the universes besides the one under Star Labs, and that portal isn't working right now. So ever since they left Jay has been trapped on Earth 1. So how could he capture Barry on Earth 2 as Zoom?
Here's the issue with the idea that Jay Garrick is actually Zoom, if I'm understanding the current theories correctly.
Barry closed every single portal between the universes besides the one under Star Labs, and that portal isn't working right now. So ever since they left Jay has been trapped on Earth 1. So how could he capture Barry on Earth 2 as Zoom?
Here's the issue with the idea that Jay Garrick is actually Zoom, if I'm understanding the current theories correctly.
Barry closed every single portal between the universes besides the one under Star Labs, and that portal isn't working right now. So ever since they left Jay has been trapped on Earth 1. So how could he capture Barry on Earth 2 as Zoom?
I think the theory suggests that the Jay we know hasn't become Zoom yet.
Zoom's a version of Jay that's the result of using too much/a bad version of the speed juice (velocity 7, 8, etc.), so Zoom could very well be a Future Jay who's gone back in time.
Here's the issue with the idea that Jay Garrick is actually Zoom, if I'm understanding the current theories correctly.
Barry closed every single portal between the universes besides the one under Star Labs, and that portal isn't working right now. So ever since they left Jay has been trapped on Earth 1. So how could he capture Barry on Earth 2 as Zoom?
I think the theory suggests that the Jay we know hasn't become Zoom yet.
Zoom's a version of Jay that's the result of using too much/a bad version of the speed juice (velocity 7, 8, etc.), so Zoom could very well be a Future Jay who's gone back in time.
Well, someone did speculate
Jay showing Caitlyn Earth 1 Hunter Zoloman was him using a speed mirage. And that he was using Velocity 6 to mask his speed powers so they wouldn't catch on he still has them.
But if we're going with the other theory...
is current-Jay aware of it? Is he purposefully hiding his future identity and his name?
Whoever Zoom is, he has an Earth 1 doppleganger. The gang will use him against Zoom somehow.
That's a really good point.
You know, when Jay was showing Caitlin his doppleganger, he mentioned that gaining the Speed Fore changed his DNA. Maybe that's the key- some way to use that difference to siphon off Zoom's speed?
Either way, I really hope the solution to Zoom is more complex than "Barry runs faster through the power of friendship."
Unrelated to the current goings-on, but I super hope that at some point the team meets the pre-Reverse Flash Eobard Thawne who still idolizes The Flash.
Final season.
+2
Options
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Unrelated to the current goings-on, but I super hope that at some point the team meets the pre-Reverse Flash Eobard Thawne who still idolizes The Flash.
Final season.
The secret of the show is that it's actually the story of the Reverse Flash...told in reverse.
Posts
There is only one choice.
So it seemed like this show was leaning that way at first.
But there's another possibility.
(speculation)
This could be the other Earth-2 - not an alternate timeline, but the mirror-image antimatter Earth where black is white and good is evil. The Earth, originally known as Earth-3, that's home to the Crime Syndicate of Amerika.
On that Earth, people who are traditionally heroes on Earth-1 are villains, and the villains are heroes (or victims). So Lex Luthor is the underdog vigilante trying to take down Overman, and the Red Hood (the Joker) is the grim urban avenger fighting the rule of Owlman. But even on that Earth, Joker and Lex Luthor don't get to win - the villains take what they want from the world more or less with impunity. The world is a fundamentally darker place, and even its heroes are kind of tainted or are barely in control of themselves.
So we have a city ruled by Zoom and his henchmen Cisco, Caitlyn, and Ronnie, and defended by its hapless protectors Mayor Snart and Floyd Lawton. The city's one hero, The Flash, is the mirror image of a dude (Hunter Zolomon) who is or will be a villain in the main world, and Garrick himself is addicted to a speed drug.
OH WAIT THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR
Now, that doesn't mean every single good person on Earth-1 is automatically evil in the antimatter Earth; it's mainly just the superpowered people. And in the comics, it's not exactly a Star Trek "Mirror, Mirror" situation where every character is "themselves" - Ultraman isn't Kal-El from Krypton but a human astronaut who got powers a different way, Owlman is Thomas Wayne's other son (and Bruce Wayne is the good-hearted police commissioner out to catch him), Power Ring is just some dude who got a magic ring, etc. So the fact that Joe and Iris and Wells seem to be fundamentally ok people in both universes - if a bit edgier and tougher on Earth-2 - doesn't necessarily contradict any of this. And I was really interested by Joe's allusion to the possibility that Earth-2 Barry might be kind of an asshole.
I mean, this is the TV show's world so it has whatever properties they want it to have. It doesn't have to "be" anything. But the more we see, the more I think they're drawing from this well rather than Earth-2 simply being a world where things shook out a little differently and there are different color filters on the outdoor shots.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all shakes out. I'm sure next episode is going to be full of rich, loamy fodder for future speculation.
I'm pretty sure
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Chambers
Hunter invented the Jay Garrick persona to provide a means of eliminating people who refused to deal with him. If you refuse to help him do what he wants, Hunter sends Jay after you. Jay takes you out but leaves you available or future use.
Why does he know what the effects of Velocity 6 are? Because he has been using it to fake being without the Speed Force.
He used his superspeed to break the Speed Cannon trapping Barry and Cisco on Earth 2. He knows that Wells double-crossed him so he decided to trap him on Earth-2, so that he could drain him at his leisure.
Jay Garrick is Zoom.
Yeah I don't want to wait until our lives may be over, I want to know right who zoom is...
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeah it was an interesting flip, I'm sure he'll be a big reveal and we'll find out someone is not who they say they are.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Nah he pushes Caitlyn out of the way and they can both see it having problems. Hunter Zolomon might be, but I doubt Jay Garrick is.
Also as to what wasn't mentioned before
pleasepaypreacher.net
Insane theory that I don't want to be true:
I wouldn't want it to be something like this first because that's waaaay too close to Thawne/Wells last season, and also because it doesn't seem like Zoom would be the type to put on that kind of act.
Maybe Zoom is Earth-2 Felicity. Boom. We can all go home now.
Zoom is Earth 2 Eddie and he's faking Barry out by being in the cell and outside of it to throw Barry off before betraying him at a crucial moment right before he tells Iris he loves the smell of her farts.
pleasepaypreacher.net
He would speed force his flash stick through a thousands miles of broken glass just to hear her fart through a walkie talkie
pleasepaypreacher.net
One thing that really kind of icked me out though. This is similar to @Feral 's musings about Force powers in TFA compared to Killgrave in Jessica Jones
Which sucks, because the rest of the episode was solid gold. Joe-2 and Barry-2's relationship, Iris being awesome as fuck, Reverb, Mayor Snart, Deadshot....hell, everything else about this episode had me grinning.
And then crying, when barry calls his mom.
Guh my feelings
Zoom is Jay Garrick, who is actually Earth-2 Eobard Thawne from the future, replacing both the real Earth-2 Jay and the real Zoom, who is Hunter Zolomon, who is Earth-1 Jay.
I also thought it looked like a steampunked-up version of
Oh, and that makes sense, because - upcoming episode casting spoilers:
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
I know you're referencing the helmet, but if they make Earth-2 Diggle into a powered character who's basically Magneto that would be really cool.
also there better be at least one 'Other Barry' joke this season
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Just beat him without finding out who he really is. I'd take that over a last-minute reveal that it's actually Earth-2 Oliver Queen or something.
Clark wasn't though, which was odd.
Pretty sure that was just an Easter egg.
It better happen.
You know, from their perspective it's Earth 1 aesthetic.
comiiiiiics
Wii: 4521 1146 5179 1333 Pearl: 3394 4642 8367 HG: 1849 3913 3132
Zoom's a version of Jay that's the result of using too much/a bad version of the speed juice (velocity 7, 8, etc.), so Zoom could very well be a Future Jay who's gone back in time.
Well, someone did speculate
Wii: 4521 1146 5179 1333 Pearl: 3394 4642 8367 HG: 1849 3913 3132
That's a really good point.
You know, when Jay was showing Caitlin his doppleganger, he mentioned that gaining the Speed Fore changed his DNA. Maybe that's the key- some way to use that difference to siphon off Zoom's speed?
Either way, I really hope the solution to Zoom is more complex than "Barry runs faster through the power of friendship."
Final season.
The secret of the show is that it's actually the story of the Reverse Flash...told in reverse.