He's already shown he's willing to remove a fuckers head, so it wouldn't exactly be out of character. Also, fuck Olly.
I'll just be kinda sad to see Thorne go. What an asshole, but dude was an awesome asshole.
Show
Seriously, fuck Olly! I really wanted the wildlings to kill him. Fucking Brutus.
Can he? After all
Show spoiler
Night's Watch Oath
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.
And when someone dies, the invocation is "And Now His Watch is Ended."
Jon Snow reborn is arguably no longer a member of the Night's Watch
HOT TAKE (with book stuff)
I would hate this so much.
Jon is the prophesied hero.
He can't do what is necessary because of honor and legal requirements.
He dies.
He's resurrected because he's the hero.
LOOPHOLE!
Also he's a Targaryen. And marries the heroine because Targaryens do that and it's cool.
It would be basically a subversion of the subversion. Good ends up winning because it's supposed to.
That said, they could surprise me that he turns out wrong and bitter from his betrayal. Then we could the expected union of Jon and Dany but they both have learned to be more like Tywin or Roose than like Tyrion or Varys.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
He's already shown he's willing to remove a fuckers head, so it wouldn't exactly be out of character. Also, fuck Olly.
I'll just be kinda sad to see Thorne go. What an asshole, but dude was an awesome asshole.
Show
Seriously, fuck Olly! I really wanted the wildlings to kill him. Fucking Brutus.
Can he? After all
Show spoiler
Night's Watch Oath
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.
And when someone dies, the invocation is "And Now His Watch is Ended."
Jon Snow reborn is arguably no longer a member of the Night's Watch
HOT TAKE (with book stuff)
I would hate this so much.
Jon is the prophesied hero.
He can't do what is necessary because of honor and legal requirements.
He dies.
He's resurrected because he's the hero.
LOOPHOLE!
Also he's a Targaryen. And marries the heroine because Targaryens do that and it's cool.
It would be basically a subversion of the subversion. Good ends up winning because it's supposed to.
That said, they could surprise me that he turns out wrong and bitter from his betrayal. Then we could the expected union of Jon and Dany but they both have learned to be more like Tywin or Roose than like Tyrion or Varys.
Endgame speculation
While Jon and Dany get friendly below the waist would be one way to have them work together, if he's Rhaegar's son when that's combined with Dany supposedly being unable to have children then he'd be Dany's heir anyway. We'd get something resembling the standard ending state that way but via laws of inheritance and succession which does fit the setting.
He's already shown he's willing to remove a fuckers head, so it wouldn't exactly be out of character. Also, fuck Olly.
I'll just be kinda sad to see Thorne go. What an asshole, but dude was an awesome asshole.
Show
Seriously, fuck Olly! I really wanted the wildlings to kill him. Fucking Brutus.
Can he? After all
Show spoiler
Night's Watch Oath
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.
And when someone dies, the invocation is "And Now His Watch is Ended."
Jon Snow reborn is arguably no longer a member of the Night's Watch
HOT TAKE (with book stuff)
I would hate this so much.
Jon is the prophesied hero.
He can't do what is necessary because of honor and legal requirements.
He dies.
He's resurrected because he's the hero.
LOOPHOLE!
Also he's a Targaryen. And marries the heroine because Targaryens do that and it's cool.
It would be basically a subversion of the subversion. Good ends up winning because it's supposed to.
That said, they could surprise me that he turns out wrong and bitter from his betrayal. Then we could the expected union of Jon and Dany but they both have learned to be more like Tywin or Roose than like Tyrion or Varys.
Endgame speculation
While Jon and Dany get friendly below the waist would be one way to have them work together, if he's Rhaegar's son when that's combined with Dany supposedly being unable to have children then he'd be Dany's heir anyway. We'd get something resembling the standard ending state that way but via laws of inheritance and succession which does fit the setting.
To truly subvert (More endgame speculation)
Jon has to marry someone to solidify the realm and the one chosen is Arya regardless of her wishes.
Why does this season keep letting in a vague sense of hope?
It's kinda nice.
Previous seasons have been so deliberately sadistic to the audience - needlessly stretching out storylines, subverting audience desires, expectation misdirections - that it's hard to say whether this new turn to the "stuff happens and not all of it is horrible" direction is a result of forging a non-book path forward or an acknowlegement that they only have a couple more seasons of runway.
Or maybe it's just another big misdirection and next episode everyone dies but Ramsay.
In any case, it feels much different that the past few seasons, but it's kind of nice that they provide at least minor concessions to "awesome stuff the audience wants to see"
I feel like it's basically a matter of them only having 2 seasons left apparently and having only a sort of bullet point ending to work towards. This has sort of shaken them out of their normal path of "bad guys always win cause that's what ASOIAF is about, amiright!". Mostly because they now have to, like, resolve shit. So you get alot of things that just happen to move the plot along.
Especially I think because they may well have no path laid out for them on how to get to the ending they have to make and lack alot of the bits and pieces GRRM has laid out that may smooth the transition there. And just generally aren't as good at coming up with something. So instead you get railroaded cause "We need this to happen, so it happens".
But I guess since this seems to have strayed a bit from the point, what I'm saying is you are seeing the bad guys no longer winning every single time because the fact that they have to start moving towards an ending has forced the show writers to stop their usual shenanigans.
I can buy that Ramsay would kill them right away, as stupid as it is, but it will break my suspension of disbelief if anyone else buys it in more than a "this guy is an immediate physical threat to me so I'll keep my mouth shut" way
because there's no savvy there whatsoever, there are years for Walda to "trip down the stairs" or the kid to "have a hunting accident" if he wanted to kill them in a way that wouldn't make him a marked man
The first episode of this season had Roose stating that Ramsay's inability to control his desires has led to quite a few problems recently. Shortly before he died this episode he also told Ramsay something like 'if you act like a mad dog then people will treat you like a mad dog'.
Both of the Boltons were monsters, but Roose was also cold, calculating, patient, and generally in control of himself. Ramsay has none of those qualities and he just killed the only person who knew how to make him useful. I think that the rest of the season for Ramsay is going to be less 'winning all the time' and more 'unrestrained self indulgence leading directly into certain doom'.
I can buy that Ramsay would kill them right away, as stupid as it is, but it will break my suspension of disbelief if anyone else buys it in more than a "this guy is an immediate physical threat to me so I'll keep my mouth shut" way
because there's no savvy there whatsoever, there are years for Walda to "trip down the stairs" or the kid to "have a hunting accident" if he wanted to kill them in a way that wouldn't make him a marked man
The first episode of this season had Roose stating that Ramsay's inability to control his desires has led to quite a few problems recently. Shortly before he died this episode he also told Ramsay something like 'if you act like a mad dog then people will treat you like a mad dog'.
Both of the Boltons were monsters, but Roose was also cold, calculating, patient, and generally in control of himself. Ramsay has none of those qualities and he just killed the only person who knew how to make him useful. I think that the rest of the season for Ramsay is going to be less 'winning all the time' and more 'unrestrained self indulgence leading directly into certain doom'.
Boltons in modern society:
Basically, Roose would have been a banker, Ramsay would be a serial killer.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
It worked out because "the plot says so", but why the hell would a smart guy like Tyrion ever think it's a good idea to wander into a dark chamber with two giant, starving dragons?
The book sells it a bit more, but dude is obsessed with dragons. I'm honestly surprised he saw the ships first.
0
Options
scherbchenAsgard (it is dead)Registered Userregular
I liked this episode. Stuff is moving forward.
Only thing that bothered me immensely because I am dumb like that:
Theon
HAR HAR Castle Black is not defended from the south! *evil pinky to mouth*
Thormund
wait. what? ....well, uh.... we came from the north-west because we needed to break a gate for our cool entrance! *grumble*
Him killing mama and son is going to undo him, as it just anulled the alliance between the Boltons and Freys.
That is the hope. Honestly though I'm 50-50 on this actually having consequences beyond needlessly piling on signifiers that he is a monster.
+3
Options
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
ramsay
there's just no way it doesn't have consequences. it was brash, other people were in the room, he broke an oath, and his father had JUST been telling him (us) that his misdeeds were starting to come back on the family
he already thinks you just scare your allies into siding with you. now he wants to lie to them also all while we're told he's not as smooth as the show has made him look.
Only thing that bothered me immensely because I am dumb like that:
Thormund
wait. what? ....well, uh.... we came from the north-west because we needed to break a gate for our cool entrance! *grumble*
Was there a clue that this gate wasn't facing the Gift to the south? I thought it was established that Castle Black (and presumably the other Night's Watch forts) have wooden walls (with a gate or two) all around except to the north, with the Wall providing their northern defense.
SithDrummer on
+5
Options
Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
edited May 2016
show stuff
YOU'RE MY BOY BRAAAAAAAAN! I MISSED YOU!!!!!
was also on the edge of my seat for the whole resurrection scene. though that actually made me happy so i'm sure we're just gonna find out that ramsey's mother was actually from the north and he can warg and he's controlling jon
book--> show spoiler potential
who's the dude that threw balon off the bridge. is he the greyjoy from the books that's in essos trying to marry daenerys?
Only thing that bothered me immensely because I am dumb like that:
Thormund
wait. what? ....well, uh.... we came from the north-west because we needed to break a gate for our cool entrance! *grumble*
Was there a clue that this gate wasn't facing the Gift to the south? I thought it was established that Castle Black (and presumably the other Night's Watch forts) have wooden walls (with a gate or two) all around except to the north, with the Wall providing their northern defense.
book answer:
Castle Black doesn't even have walls. it has one wall. The Wall.
it is basically an unfortified hamlet with some big buldings nestled close to The Wall.
I don't really have a show answer so you might be right.
who's the dude that threw balon off the bridge. is he the greyjoy from the books that's in essos trying to marry daenerys?
Book Stuff:
Close. He's the guy who sent the guy to bring Dany back. It's Euron Crowseye who was Balon's brother. He sent their other brother off to fetch Dany but that brother (Victorian?) decided on route to just try and get her for himself rather than his brother.
I think people praising this episode shows how low our expectations have become. The flaws are glaring but since we had to endure so much demonstrably worse bullshit through S5 and last week, they don't seem as bad. Show watchers have long forgotten who the fuck Balon was, and introducing Euron that way screams laziness. They abandoned world building some time in S4 and are now trying to catch up, but are going about it in pretty stupid ways. To that end, Ramsay's power play also makes no logical sense given what we know about him. Why on earth would anyone trust him when Walda, her baby, and Roose Bolton were all killed in one day? Maybe Roose being poisoned could fly, but not all 3, especially when the latter were eaten by dogs and everyone knows Ramsay loves his dogs. Show Roose was so underdeveloped that I don't really care about the gap in logic with him being naive enough to hug his son like that and open himself up to getting killed, but Book Roose would never in a million years let that happen. He's even flat out said in the books that he knows Ramsay would do exactly that.
The ending was also kind of a joke, as if anyone thought there was any chance he wasn't coming back. That was an opportunity to do something really cool with the most predictable plot moment ever, but (as with my other points) it would have taken some extra planning. Having the flashbacks lead up to the reveal that he's actually a Targ, and maybe right as they're about to burn his body in the very next scene after the flashback reveal he gets up and walks through the flames.
+1
Options
DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
i thought the bridge stuff was maybe a hallucination, that's how out of left field it felt to me.
I think characters are falling apart left and right currently. I haven't read the books, but I do know some stuff.
Bolton, Stannis, Melissandre, so many characters make me feel like they just don't know what to do with them. My biggest fear right now is this: Varys. In the books he seems to be one of the two people who really pull the strings and his conflict with Littlefinger is certainly of some importance. Here however, I feel like he's just some bystander with nothing left to do. I have a feeling they will just end his character with no payoff or resolution, in which case I'll be extremly disapointed.
PSN | Steam
___
NNID: carmofin
3DS: 2852 6971 9745
Throw me a PM if you add me
+2
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Also, about Jon
I'm glad they didn't drag it out and try to do something cute like have him stand up in the fire. Shit or get off the pot.
I'm glad they didn't drag it out and try to do something cute like have him stand up in the fire. Shit or get off the pot.
Maybe, but the way the handled the red women was ridiculous. "You know how to revive someone?" "Nah... but we can try, I guess?" Ughhhh... What is her motive to revive Snow? She even says out loud that he is better off dead. So then she changes her mind because she wants to do good old Davos a favor? Oh please...
PSN | Steam
___
NNID: carmofin
3DS: 2852 6971 9745
Throw me a PM if you add me
0
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I'm glad they didn't drag it out and try to do something cute like have him stand up in the fire. Shit or get off the pot.
Maybe, but the way the handled the red women was ridiculous. "You know how to revive someone?" "Nah... but we can try, I guess?" Ughhhh... What is her motive to revive Snow? She even says out loud that he is better off dead. So then she changes her mind because she wants to do good old Davos a favor? Oh please...
Should probably rewatch when she met Dondarrion.
Also, last ditch efforts are a thing people do... and they've done them in this show. They just usually fail miserably.
+1
Options
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Show stuff:
The Ironborn stuff came out of nowhere. I stopped caring about those guys a while ago, and I can't even remember if they're doing anything in the books at this point. They're also about the worst of the seven kingdoms, what with their main exports being rape and pillage. Unless this is the show trying to wrap up every loose end (by killing people), I'm not excited by their return.
Ramsay... yeah... this seemed like another of the 'if we kill these guys off, we can spend more time on the important storylines' moves (Dorn). Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that in the modern world, Ramsay would be a serial killer. I think they're wrong. Ramsay is too damn stupid to be able to kill enough people to qualify for the title before he got caught. There's comedic potential for a skit where Dexter's dad is attempting to teach Ramsay the 'code'.
They should have held off on Jon Snow coming back until the next episode. Have them burn the body and he walks out of the flames.
Having Frankenmountain killing random bar patrons talking smack about Cersei is classic her. Imagine that said in the Archer voice.
A solid enough episode, but the increase in plot speed is going to be annoying if it continues for the entire season.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
0
Options
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I'm glad they didn't drag it out and try to do something cute like have him stand up in the fire. Shit or get off the pot.
OTOH
I wish he had been brought back for some purpose. As it is, they just brought him back because Davos wanted Jon to be back for ... no real reason? I almost wish they had brought him back before the wildlings stormed the gates. That way it would have been a last ditch effort to get the Night's Watch back on their side.
Someone said it earlier, but the season definitely feels very outline-y. They know the major beats they need to hit and since there isn't a book to fill in the details of how to get from point A to point B, they are just showing us A and B.
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Longer explanation on Mel's motives:
Why is it most people try to start their car immediately after it dies, knowing full well it probably won't work? A little bit of hope. This character has been doing this for centuries, for all we know, and all of a sudden everything comes crashing down... much like Thoros, who also lost his faith. Just words. His story was he did it because it was his friend, a selfish reason, and it worked. Hers was similarly selfish, but also an act of faith: To see if she was who she was. Even if there's the slightest chance it could work, it would mean her seeing Jon Snow in the fire wasn't a lie and she was who she believed to be this entire time. Reaffirmation of faith, simple human nature, and absolutely a believable motivator for a "eh fuck it why not" moment, which this absolutely was.
+13
Options
HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
edited May 2016
You know what last night's episode felt like to me?
It felt like a session of Dungeons & Dragons where one of the players was metagaming really hard.
Davos's Player: "Come on. We've all read the Player's Handbook. We know you get raise dead at level 9."
Mel's Player: "I can't just raise someone I barely know! That's terrible RP."
Davos's Player: "Stop being a drama queen. We have a whole adventure to get through and our main DPR-tank is down."
Hachface on
+12
Options
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Jon
I think that was clearly a situation that one man could solve, and here's Davos with a woman who might be able to raise the dead
I think that was clearly a situation that one man could solve, and here's Davos with a woman who might be able to raise the dead
that's enough motivation for me
yeah but
he had no reason at all to believe that she could do that except for a generalizable sense of "she's magic!", but every time she's ever used her magic it's beeen horrifying
+1
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The Ironborn stuff came out of nowhere. I stopped caring about those guys a while ago, and I can't even remember if they're doing anything in the books at this point. They're also about the worst of the seven kingdoms, what with their main exports being rape and pillage. Unless this is the show trying to wrap up every loose end (by killing people), I'm not excited by their return.
Ramsay... yeah... this seemed like another of the 'if we kill these guys off, we can spend more time on the important storylines' moves (Dorn). Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that in the modern world, Ramsay would be a serial killer. I think they're wrong. Ramsay is too damn stupid to be able to kill enough people to qualify for the title before he got caught. There's comedic potential for a skit where Dexter's dad is attempting to teach Ramsay the 'code'.
They should have held off on Jon Snow coming back until the next episode. Have them burn the body and he walks out of the flames.
Having Frankenmountain killing random bar patrons talking smack about Cersei is classic her. Imagine that said in the Archer voice.
A solid enough episode, but the increase in plot speed is going to be annoying if it continues for the entire season.
Re: Books and Ironborn
The Ironborn have been fairly big players in Book 2/4/5. Book 3 they are still important but not getting PoVs or anything as I remember.
As of the end of ADWD they are invading The Reach, potentially hitting Old Town soon, and sending a massive fleet to Dany to wed her/control her dragons/who the fuck knows.
I think calling Roose stupid for hugging Ramsay is a fundamental misread of what's happening there. As soon as Roose was told he had a son he knew the game was over. Calling Ramsay his firstborn was simply an effort to leave the room alive and without killing his supposed heir in a room full of people, because that's Roose's understanding of the game. That hug was meant to buy him enough time and trust to arrange for Ramsay's death.
He didn't grasp the extent of Ramsay's willingness to be known as a mad dog, basically.
And let's not forget that Roose was a villain in his own right. This isn't watching the Big Bad get away with more murder, this is watching duplicitity and deceit begin to eat away at the villains' power. We're going to see a resurgent North by the end of this season. No idea how pleasant that's going to look or how long it'll last though.
OneAngryPossum on
+8
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I think that was clearly a situation that one man could solve, and here's Davos with a woman who might be able to raise the dead
that's enough motivation for me
yeah but
he had no reason at all to believe that she could do that except for a generalizable sense of "she's magic!", but every time she's ever used her magic it's beeen horrifying
which is why he asked her if it was even possible to begin with. He didn't come out and demand she do her resurrection voodoo.
+1
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
If you've ever been the "family tech support guy", you should be familiar with people asking you off the wall shit that somehow relates to computers.
Posts
HOT TAKE (with book stuff)
Jon is the prophesied hero.
He can't do what is necessary because of honor and legal requirements.
He dies.
He's resurrected because he's the hero.
LOOPHOLE!
Also he's a Targaryen. And marries the heroine because Targaryens do that and it's cool.
It would be basically a subversion of the subversion. Good ends up winning because it's supposed to.
That said, they could surprise me that he turns out wrong and bitter from his betrayal. Then we could the expected union of Jon and Dany but they both have learned to be more like Tywin or Roose than like Tyrion or Varys.
Yes. Yes it was. Get hype.
Endgame speculation
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
To truly subvert (More endgame speculation)
The girl is no one.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Yes.
I feel like it's basically a matter of them only having 2 seasons left apparently and having only a sort of bullet point ending to work towards. This has sort of shaken them out of their normal path of "bad guys always win cause that's what ASOIAF is about, amiright!". Mostly because they now have to, like, resolve shit. So you get alot of things that just happen to move the plot along.
Especially I think because they may well have no path laid out for them on how to get to the ending they have to make and lack alot of the bits and pieces GRRM has laid out that may smooth the transition there. And just generally aren't as good at coming up with something. So instead you get railroaded cause "We need this to happen, so it happens".
But I guess since this seems to have strayed a bit from the point, what I'm saying is you are seeing the bad guys no longer winning every single time because the fact that they have to start moving towards an ending has forced the show writers to stop their usual shenanigans.
Both of the Boltons were monsters, but Roose was also cold, calculating, patient, and generally in control of himself. Ramsay has none of those qualities and he just killed the only person who knew how to make him useful. I think that the rest of the season for Ramsay is going to be less 'winning all the time' and more 'unrestrained self indulgence leading directly into certain doom'.
Boltons in modern society:
Only thing that bothered me immensely because I am dumb like that:
Theon
Thormund
That is the hope. Honestly though I'm 50-50 on this actually having consequences beyond needlessly piling on signifiers that he is a monster.
he already thinks you just scare your allies into siding with you. now he wants to lie to them also all while we're told he's not as smooth as the show has made him look.
was also on the edge of my seat for the whole resurrection scene. though that actually made me happy so i'm sure we're just gonna find out that ramsey's mother was actually from the north and he can warg and he's controlling jon
book--> show spoiler potential
book answer:
it is basically an unfortified hamlet with some big buldings nestled close to The Wall.
I don't really have a show answer so you might be right.
Book Stuff:
The ending was also kind of a joke, as if anyone thought there was any chance he wasn't coming back. That was an opportunity to do something really cool with the most predictable plot moment ever, but (as with my other points) it would have taken some extra planning. Having the flashbacks lead up to the reveal that he's actually a Targ, and maybe right as they're about to burn his body in the very next scene after the flashback reveal he gets up and walks through the flames.
___
NNID: carmofin
3DS: 2852 6971 9745
Throw me a PM if you add me
___
NNID: carmofin
3DS: 2852 6971 9745
Throw me a PM if you add me
Should probably rewatch when she met Dondarrion.
Also, last ditch efforts are a thing people do... and they've done them in this show. They just usually fail miserably.
Ramsay... yeah... this seemed like another of the 'if we kill these guys off, we can spend more time on the important storylines' moves (Dorn). Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that in the modern world, Ramsay would be a serial killer. I think they're wrong. Ramsay is too damn stupid to be able to kill enough people to qualify for the title before he got caught. There's comedic potential for a skit where Dexter's dad is attempting to teach Ramsay the 'code'.
They should have held off on Jon Snow coming back until the next episode. Have them burn the body and he walks out of the flames.
Having Frankenmountain killing random bar patrons talking smack about Cersei is classic her. Imagine that said in the Archer voice.
A solid enough episode, but the increase in plot speed is going to be annoying if it continues for the entire season.
OTOH
Someone said it earlier, but the season definitely feels very outline-y. They know the major beats they need to hit and since there isn't a book to fill in the details of how to get from point A to point B, they are just showing us A and B.
Davos's Player: "Come on. We've all read the Player's Handbook. We know you get raise dead at level 9."
Mel's Player: "I can't just raise someone I barely know! That's terrible RP."
Davos's Player: "Stop being a drama queen. We have a whole adventure to get through and our main DPR-tank is down."
that's enough motivation for me
yeah but
Except
It's his redhead curse.
He's like catnip to the gingers. It's why Tormund just can't quit him.
Re: Books and Ironborn
As of the end of ADWD they are invading The Reach, potentially hitting Old Town soon, and sending a massive fleet to Dany to wed her/control her dragons/who the fuck knows.
He didn't grasp the extent of Ramsay's willingness to be known as a mad dog, basically.
And let's not forget that Roose was a villain in his own right. This isn't watching the Big Bad get away with more murder, this is watching duplicitity and deceit begin to eat away at the villains' power. We're going to see a resurgent North by the end of this season. No idea how pleasant that's going to look or how long it'll last though.