Her W build seems like a one-shot thing that sure can help a bit but does it really contribute in team fights?
Dunno... It just doesn't feel like it does much.
AA though, sustained DPS, just overall seems like a better contribution. Sure you're not ganking squishies like butter but in a team fight you're helping out a LOT.
Also, those mines that she shoots with her W, are they insta damage to anything that gets hit with W, or do the mines themselves have to actually hit to do the extra damage?
Yes, her W can help a lot in team fights. Frost Shot prevents them from disengaging and it is not like your auto attacks are bad without picking up AA talents.. You can pick up Searing Attacks at 7 since there isn't too much at that tier if you are going Multishot.
Her W build seems like a one-shot thing that sure can help a bit but does it really contribute in team fights?
Dunno... It just doesn't feel like it does much.
Every match and every player is different. I don't find straight AA builds to be very effective; I don't like the time they require to get ramped up to full speed, and I feel like they force me to stand closer than I'm comfortable with. I like to play Valla as a skirmisher that skirts around the outside of teamfights to deal damage really safely. When she sees an opportunity, she can double (or triple) Q to summon up a ton of on-demand burst. Your mileage may vary, though. What works for me may not work well for you.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
AA also has the weakness of doing near zero damage without being in their range until 20.
I found that I basically had to keep out of a fight till it was pretty well in so I could sneak in and AA unnoticed. If I went in to use all that AA dps I had early I died. Even sometimes late I died.
An ability build has the power to do damage while out of range or even just dip in blow two skills and get out. Then when the fight dies down you can AA people as a finish. Something you would do nearly as well without those talents.
What's a reasonable rank to shoot for? How many heroes should I expected to be proficient at?
Just have fun with it, @Mace1370. Try to be proficient at all of the "standard" picks, though, in case your team needs you to grab them. For assassins, that's Kael'thas, Jaina and Zeratul; for warriors, Muradin, Johanna and Anub'arak; for specialists, Nazeebo, Sylvanas and Zagara; most supports are good right now, but obviously Tassadar and Tyrande may not be wise picks as solo supports, and BW was nerfed pretty hard in the last patch, so you don't see her very often at all. Play what you want, though, and just have fun with it. I have a friend who made it to Rank 1 playing literally only Chen, so don't get too hung up on what other people tell you.
only time i go AA valla is if the other team is super tanky. giant killer + all that aspd lets her really melt a team with 2 tanks and azmodan or whatever
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
When I play Valla, I like to get the life steal Q with additional hits that refreshes on E. Combined with storing extra charges on E, you can cunningly trick an opponent into thinking you're an easy kill with only a sliver of health left, and then suddenly you just don't die as you tumble around and fire a million healing arrows.
I don't know if it's a good build, but it leads to some good feelin' fights.
That build is great for killing dudes on the run. They think they can get away with half health but the double arrow with extra hits does so much damage.
What's a reasonable rank to shoot for? How many heroes should I expected to be proficient at?
I think 20 is pretty achievable without too too much effort if you have previous MOBA experience/if the game thinks your mmr is high. That's where I am without going super tryhard or buying/learning the most meta/well-regarded heros (I've pretty much just played Valla and Lili every single game). Probably, coming in without MOBA experience, 30 would be a better first goal.
As a bare minimum, you should have 2 healers and 2 tanks (in case the enemy team picks the one you wanted) and about 4 dps champions (because what if you are last pick and the enemy picks all 3 dps champions that you own).
As you rank up from 50 to 40, you can only gain points, not lose them, so use those levels to get the lay of the land and see if you like playing with a draft.
I seem to really be getting somewhat of a hang of Kerrigan! I manage to not die all the time and top dps charts
Also, I picked the ultralisk instead of maelstrom the golem map by accident and man...it was pretty good. Instead of diving in with maelstrom, I attacked a false target, got the ultralisk on my real target and then attacked that and another squishy
I auto attacked muradin, got the ultralisk on Karl, then managed to get both Karl and valla.
I hereby vote that on the pa forums the short form of Kael'thas is now Karl.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Played a game where we were winning right up until we lost. We had a super caustic Zagara who was complaining the entire damn time because we were way behind on kills, even though until the last two immortals we had all our forts up and the enemy only had one keep up.
The Zagara keep using slurs, called me a "feeding phaggot" and then went afk during the critical team-fight at the last immortal, effectively costing us the game.
And I mean, I died a LOT in that game. But I was also responsible for the vast majority of our XP, because I was zeratul and, for some reason, I was soloing the bot lane against a Nova and a Zeratul. And I also somehow managed to push the bot lane to the fort in spite of this, while top lane didn't move until the fucking Immortal came along, and even then it took two before the fort fell.
Then their keep fell ONLY because I took our bruiser camp right before the immortals spawned, so EVERYONE was focused on the damn team fighting while the bruisers I nicked just pushed the shit out of their base and took a keep. Seriously, Bruisers are the biggest threat on that map if left unchecked. The AI will NEVER kill the shaman until they get to the core, they will just keep reviving those fucking devil-dogs until the sun burns out.
Which is also why I split to kill the enemy bruisers when their immortal spawned, and I only stayed long enough to kill the shaman. And I still got called a bunch of slurs by Zagara for my 'terrible play.'
It didn't help that we also had a Leoric and Butcher who decided to engage 2v4. Well, I guess the Butcher thought it was 2v2 but the enemy team had a Zeratul and a Nova, it's NEVER a safe idea.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
This is seriously what playing Diablo is like. It hits close home man.
+3
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It is REALLY fucking sad when a Zeratul player has over 20k more siege damage than a Zagara player on the same damn team.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
That build is great for killing dudes on the run. They think they can get away with half health but the double arrow with extra hits does so much damage.
My biggest problem with it is the Q can be very feast or famine depending on if there are other things for it to home in on when you're trying to kill a dude.
+1
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Damn. That is a lucky ass Gazlowe.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yeah I felt like I was doing alright. I would hop around the map and get people out of there but I just couldn't keep people from being people I guess.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I've been watching ZP play backdoor Leoric lately. It's amusing when it works. It looks incredibly hard to deal with if the other team isn't well ahead by that point.
So there's times I'd like to play a match or two of this, but I'm pretty sure next time I log in it's going to activate a free stim pack, and I don't plan on playing a lot, so I never do. They haven't changed that by chance have they?
In case the link doesn't work, watch from 1h34m onward. It's a short watch but holy goddamn that's funny.
Shit like this caused the Smite devs to pull a god entirely from the game and dismantle her kit into something completely different. If he doesn't get a drastic change to his talents I would be shocked.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Just 2 manned a boss with Lili and Murky. Damn that is silly.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yeah, I've been watching ZP play backdoor Leoric lately. It's amusing when it works. It looks incredibly hard to deal with if the other team isn't well ahead by that point.
I was in a game earlier today with what we were calling 'split push leoric' and at first we laughed because it seemed to be hindering us. Then suddenly the enemy was down a Keep and we were all "Damn."
And then we won the game.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I honestly have no idea how Leoric made it out of testing in this state. His passive alone is ridiculously powerful, and tends to warp the game. He has crazy pushing and siege power for the entire game, an amazing escape that friggin breaks cc, a large health pool, and high damage and sustain. HE pretty much needs to be nerfed into the ground, and then some.
Man, I was on fire last night. Won all 6 QMs I played, first couple solo then the rest with @Teriferin. Had one match where one guy was being caustic and yelling at Teriferin but I told him to stop being a jerk, he complained about Teriferin again to justify it, and then I said that whatever message he was trying to get across was lost when he behaved like that .... And he stopped! We came back from losing team fights and being 2 levels down to win it.
Also ... Started with Sonya for the first few then switch to Sylvanas, who I'd gotten to 5 when she was free, but who I never really understood. Man, Sylvanas can be some good fun! One of the matches was on Eternity and the other team also had a Sylvanas. Right at the start our Muradin asked me to split push during the immortal fight, so I did and my team was able to carry the team fight. Other team had Abathar so I think their Sylv was in on the immortals fight.
Anyway, they left me alone for every immortal battle to push and it was nuts. I was just down there playing my little solo game destroying their forts while I watched the life bars of the immortals go in our favor. Good stuff. :-)
So there's times I'd like to play a match or two of this, but I'm pretty sure next time I log in it's going to activate a free stim pack, and I don't plan on playing a lot, so I never do. They haven't changed that by chance have they?
Normally they activate and run independent of you logging on and out, so you've probably missed it regardless.
I think they might have done one a long time ago that activated on next log in, but that was a special case.
EDIT: That was meant to inspire you to log in and play, since you have nothing to lose, it's a fun game!
I bought Ab and went to AI with him and had a ton of fun with it. Learned a lot.
Then went to QM and lost horrible for two or three matches in a row. Is Ab useful or should I be playing Diablo or something else?
Ab is definitely viable in QM but he takes an awful lot of practice and can get screwed over by team comp hard.
The only real problem with abathur in QM is the popularity of nova in QM. Having both on a team can be frustrating and requires even more awareness by the other 3 team mates. Everyone is single pushing a lane so they need to be smart about objectives and rotate often where ab can take over any lane.
Main issue is just that nova and ab have completely different team focuses so your team just ends up doing nothing well. It can still win but some games you'll just feel like you can't accomplish anything
Hooooly shit. Was pugging QM last night... we were in Cursed Hollow. We are down by two levels and at 60%, two keeps left (weirdly, in one lane) the enemy team grabs the Bone Golem at 20 minutes.
Most of us are like "welp that's a GG"
Arthas is like NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER
We all shrug and followed Arthas' lead.
AND WE TURNED THAT WAR RIG AROUND. It was a textbook case of that video posted upthread -- enemy team got cocky and started putting only two to three people on Tributes, so we got Tribute, and started picking them off in 5v3s. We closed the level gap, took ALL the camps, and sealed a victory at the 30 minute mark. By the end everyone was capslocking in team chat yelling. And it was mostly because this Arthas was not rude, and was mostly just yelling WE CAN DO IT GUYS NEVER GIVE UP the whole time.
At one point I got off a sacrifice play where I was the only guy on a tribute, and successfully grabbed it before I got ganked, so I legitimately got to say WITNESS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
In related news, Nazeebo is fun, but I'm hilariously bad at aiming the zombie ring.
I bought Ab and went to AI with him and had a ton of fun with it. Learned a lot.
Then went to QM and lost horrible for two or three matches in a row. Is Ab useful or should I be playing Diablo or something else?
Ab is definitely viable in QM but he takes an awful lot of practice and can get screwed over by team comp hard.
The only real problem with abathur in QM is the popularity of nova in QM. Having both on a team can be frustrating and requires even more awareness by the other 3 team mates. Everyone is single pushing a lane so they need to be smart about objectives and rotate often where ab can take over any lane.
Main issue is just that nova and ab have completely different team focuses so your team just ends up doing nothing well. It can still win but some games you'll just feel like you can't accomplish anything
Hooooly shit. Was pugging QM last night... we were in Cursed Hollow. We are down by two levels and at 60%, two keeps left (weirdly, in one lane) the enemy team grabs the Bone Golem at 20 minutes.
Most of us are like "welp that's a GG"
Arthas is like NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER
We all shrug and followed Arthas' lead.
AND WE TURNED THAT WAR RIG AROUND. It was a textbook case of that video posted upthread -- enemy team got cocky and started putting only two to three people on Tributes, so we got Tribute, and started picking them off in 5v3s. We closed the level gap, took ALL the camps, and sealed a victory at the 30 minute mark. By the end everyone was capslocking in team chat yelling. And it was mostly because this Arthas was not rude, and was mostly just yelling WE CAN DO IT GUYS NEVER GIVE UP the whole time.
At one point I got off a sacrifice play where I was the only guy on a tribute, and successfully grabbed it before I got ganked, so I legitimately got to say WITNESS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
In related news, Nazeebo is fun, but I'm hilariously bad at aiming the zombie ring.
Zombie Wall timing can be hard to learn.
One of the best uses of it, though, is using it like Force Wall. Use it to block off an area or path of escape rather than using it to trap someone inside it. Obviously trapping people in it is still good, but there's times when you don't have to.
One of the best tips I can give is don't ever cast empty Zombie Walls. What I mean by "empty" Zombie Walls, is when you cast it out in a wide open area (like say a lane) "just because", especially if the enemy isn't necessarily retreating in a given direction. Always have a reason to cast it. It's very easy to dodge in open areas, and even if you land it, it's meaningless without any significant follow up. Small enclosed areas or during chaotic teamfights are best. If you are gonna cast it in lane, use it to block off their gate so they can't go behind their towers. But in general I'd refrain from empty casting.
Otherwise, just practice practice practice. You'll get there eventually. You too can BRAAAAP-BO with the best of 'em.
In case the link doesn't work, watch from 1h34m onward. It's a short watch but holy goddamn that's funny.
Shit like this caused the Smite devs to pull a god entirely from the game and dismantle her kit into something completely different. If he doesn't get a drastic change to his talents I would be shocked.
The main problem here isn't necessarily his trait alone, it's the fact that Leoric has several talents which significantly lower his death timer. Like, maybe 15 second death timer. With Consume Vitality (Skeletal Swing healing talent), hitting that on a full creep wave will already chunk a large portion of your death timer down (10% health max). Then you have Ossein Renewal which gives you 20% health. 30% health so far, plus the regen from Reanimation, PLUS Fealty Unto Death giving you 1% health for every minion that dies nearby.
Like it wasn't uncommon to see ZPs cheating 30-45 seconds off his death timer.
I think his Trait in general is fine. It's very strong, the ability to res ON THE SPOT is huge, but overall I think it's fine. The issue is when you combine all this other crap that it gets out of hand, especially when you decide to ignore everything else and play Let's Kill The Keeps instead.
It is a problem, though. Yeah, sure, it's less of an issue without an Abathur, but it's still an issue period.
I'm not sure how they fix it without completely redoing a lot of his talents.
Posts
Her W build seems like a one-shot thing that sure can help a bit but does it really contribute in team fights?
Dunno... It just doesn't feel like it does much.
AA though, sustained DPS, just overall seems like a better contribution. Sure you're not ganking squishies like butter but in a team fight you're helping out a LOT.
Also, those mines that she shoots with her W, are they insta damage to anything that gets hit with W, or do the mines themselves have to actually hit to do the extra damage?
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Every match and every player is different. I don't find straight AA builds to be very effective; I don't like the time they require to get ramped up to full speed, and I feel like they force me to stand closer than I'm comfortable with. I like to play Valla as a skirmisher that skirts around the outside of teamfights to deal damage really safely. When she sees an opportunity, she can double (or triple) Q to summon up a ton of on-demand burst. Your mileage may vary, though. What works for me may not work well for you.
I found that I basically had to keep out of a fight till it was pretty well in so I could sneak in and AA unnoticed. If I went in to use all that AA dps I had early I died. Even sometimes late I died.
An ability build has the power to do damage while out of range or even just dip in blow two skills and get out. Then when the fight dies down you can AA people as a finish. Something you would do nearly as well without those talents.
What's a reasonable rank to shoot for? How many heroes should I expected to be proficient at?
Just have fun with it, @Mace1370. Try to be proficient at all of the "standard" picks, though, in case your team needs you to grab them. For assassins, that's Kael'thas, Jaina and Zeratul; for warriors, Muradin, Johanna and Anub'arak; for specialists, Nazeebo, Sylvanas and Zagara; most supports are good right now, but obviously Tassadar and Tyrande may not be wise picks as solo supports, and BW was nerfed pretty hard in the last patch, so you don't see her very often at all. Play what you want, though, and just have fun with it. I have a friend who made it to Rank 1 playing literally only Chen, so don't get too hung up on what other people tell you.
I don't know if it's a good build, but it leads to some good feelin' fights.
I think 20 is pretty achievable without too too much effort if you have previous MOBA experience/if the game thinks your mmr is high. That's where I am without going super tryhard or buying/learning the most meta/well-regarded heros (I've pretty much just played Valla and Lili every single game). Probably, coming in without MOBA experience, 30 would be a better first goal.
As a bare minimum, you should have 2 healers and 2 tanks (in case the enemy team picks the one you wanted) and about 4 dps champions (because what if you are last pick and the enemy picks all 3 dps champions that you own).
As you rank up from 50 to 40, you can only gain points, not lose them, so use those levels to get the lay of the land and see if you like playing with a draft.
He's actually really, very strong.
I don't even have Hero League yet, but I'm tempted to join in. They'll match me with players... probably going in as Rehgar or LiLi.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I hereby vote that on the pa forums the short form of Kael'thas is now Karl.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
The Zagara keep using slurs, called me a "feeding phaggot" and then went afk during the critical team-fight at the last immortal, effectively costing us the game.
And I mean, I died a LOT in that game. But I was also responsible for the vast majority of our XP, because I was zeratul and, for some reason, I was soloing the bot lane against a Nova and a Zeratul. And I also somehow managed to push the bot lane to the fort in spite of this, while top lane didn't move until the fucking Immortal came along, and even then it took two before the fort fell.
Then their keep fell ONLY because I took our bruiser camp right before the immortals spawned, so EVERYONE was focused on the damn team fighting while the bruisers I nicked just pushed the shit out of their base and took a keep. Seriously, Bruisers are the biggest threat on that map if left unchecked. The AI will NEVER kill the shaman until they get to the core, they will just keep reviving those fucking devil-dogs until the sun burns out.
Which is also why I split to kill the enemy bruisers when their immortal spawned, and I only stayed long enough to kill the shaman. And I still got called a bunch of slurs by Zagara for my 'terrible play.'
It didn't help that we also had a Leoric and Butcher who decided to engage 2v4. Well, I guess the Butcher thought it was 2v2 but the enemy team had a Zeratul and a Nova, it's NEVER a safe idea.
This is seriously what playing Diablo is like. It hits close home man.
Then went to QM and lost horrible for two or three matches in a row. Is Ab useful or should I be playing Diablo or something else?
Ab is definitely viable in QM but he takes an awful lot of practice and can get screwed over by team comp hard.
Leoric isn't a Warrior, he's a Specialist!
http://www.twitch.tv/zp_tv/v/8446133?t=1h34m07s
In case the link doesn't work, watch from 1h34m onward. It's a short watch but holy goddamn that's funny.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Shit like this caused the Smite devs to pull a god entirely from the game and dismantle her kit into something completely different. If he doesn't get a drastic change to his talents I would be shocked.
I was in a game earlier today with what we were calling 'split push leoric' and at first we laughed because it seemed to be hindering us. Then suddenly the enemy was down a Keep and we were all "Damn."
And then we won the game.
Also ... Started with Sonya for the first few then switch to Sylvanas, who I'd gotten to 5 when she was free, but who I never really understood. Man, Sylvanas can be some good fun! One of the matches was on Eternity and the other team also had a Sylvanas. Right at the start our Muradin asked me to split push during the immortal fight, so I did and my team was able to carry the team fight. Other team had Abathar so I think their Sylv was in on the immortals fight.
Anyway, they left me alone for every immortal battle to push and it was nuts. I was just down there playing my little solo game destroying their forts while I watched the life bars of the immortals go in our favor. Good stuff. :-)
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Normally they activate and run independent of you logging on and out, so you've probably missed it regardless.
I think they might have done one a long time ago that activated on next log in, but that was a special case.
EDIT: That was meant to inspire you to log in and play, since you have nothing to lose, it's a fun game!
The only real problem with abathur in QM is the popularity of nova in QM. Having both on a team can be frustrating and requires even more awareness by the other 3 team mates. Everyone is single pushing a lane so they need to be smart about objectives and rotate often where ab can take over any lane.
Main issue is just that nova and ab have completely different team focuses so your team just ends up doing nothing well. It can still win but some games you'll just feel like you can't accomplish anything
Looks like Leoric ...
plays for keeps.
Most of us are like "welp that's a GG"
Arthas is like NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER
We all shrug and followed Arthas' lead.
AND WE TURNED THAT WAR RIG AROUND. It was a textbook case of that video posted upthread -- enemy team got cocky and started putting only two to three people on Tributes, so we got Tribute, and started picking them off in 5v3s. We closed the level gap, took ALL the camps, and sealed a victory at the 30 minute mark. By the end everyone was capslocking in team chat yelling. And it was mostly because this Arthas was not rude, and was mostly just yelling WE CAN DO IT GUYS NEVER GIVE UP the whole time.
At one point I got off a sacrifice play where I was the only guy on a tribute, and successfully grabbed it before I got ganked, so I legitimately got to say WITNESS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
In related news, Nazeebo is fun, but I'm hilariously bad at aiming the zombie ring.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
hah, well both of my games had Nova on our team.
Zombie Wall timing can be hard to learn.
One of the best uses of it, though, is using it like Force Wall. Use it to block off an area or path of escape rather than using it to trap someone inside it. Obviously trapping people in it is still good, but there's times when you don't have to.
One of the best tips I can give is don't ever cast empty Zombie Walls. What I mean by "empty" Zombie Walls, is when you cast it out in a wide open area (like say a lane) "just because", especially if the enemy isn't necessarily retreating in a given direction. Always have a reason to cast it. It's very easy to dodge in open areas, and even if you land it, it's meaningless without any significant follow up. Small enclosed areas or during chaotic teamfights are best. If you are gonna cast it in lane, use it to block off their gate so they can't go behind their towers. But in general I'd refrain from empty casting.
Otherwise, just practice practice practice. You'll get there eventually. You too can BRAAAAP-BO with the best of 'em.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
The main problem here isn't necessarily his trait alone, it's the fact that Leoric has several talents which significantly lower his death timer. Like, maybe 15 second death timer. With Consume Vitality (Skeletal Swing healing talent), hitting that on a full creep wave will already chunk a large portion of your death timer down (10% health max). Then you have Ossein Renewal which gives you 20% health. 30% health so far, plus the regen from Reanimation, PLUS Fealty Unto Death giving you 1% health for every minion that dies nearby.
Like it wasn't uncommon to see ZPs cheating 30-45 seconds off his death timer.
I think his Trait in general is fine. It's very strong, the ability to res ON THE SPOT is huge, but overall I think it's fine. The issue is when you combine all this other crap that it gets out of hand, especially when you decide to ignore everything else and play Let's Kill The Keeps instead.
It is a problem, though. Yeah, sure, it's less of an issue without an Abathur, but it's still an issue period.
I'm not sure how they fix it without completely redoing a lot of his talents.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582