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[Roguelikes] ASCII, Permadeath, Turn-based and Oh My...

2456711

Posts

  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    How do people feel about brogue? I'm not sure I can get past the name.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Anyone here tried Pugnacious Wizards? Its a very good roguelike with non-traditional combat and you can play it in your browser. All of the spells are ludicrously overpowered but at the same time difficult to use.

    Also Caves of Qud is really good. All of the skills and enemies and character creation really takes you into this crazy world.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    MadPen wrote: »
    How do people feel about brogue? I'm not sure I can get past the name.

    It think it's the best distillation of Roguelike mechanics around. The lack of classes, races and religions makes the game easily approachable and the reactivity of the game's systems are like something out of an Indiana Jones movie. And the openGL animated ASCII graphics are fucking to die for.

    Also, the name isn't Bro-gue as in Bro Rogue. It's Brogue as in the Irish accent. So there, you don't have to get past the name now, unless you are racist against Irish people. I hope you aren't racist against Irish people. :P

    Drake on
    MahnmutSceptre
  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    How do people feel about brogue? I'm not sure I can get past the name.

    I tried it a bit over the weekend and liked it well enough. It's a simple Roguelike that will kill you a lot. No classes, no skills. I don't know if people who haven't played Rogue will like it so much, but it's easy enough to download and make four or five runs.

    I kind of wish there weren't so much deep water/pits/lava everywhere. And there were more traps than I was expecting. Plus allies seem to be more important than I'd like -- all my good runs involved multiple ogre allies. But I haven't gotten very far yet.

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Stealth is another way to go in Brogue. Using leather armor and light weapons, stay out of the light, hide in grass and stuff. It can be really effective.

  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Brogue's main claim to fame is that it has a really good ratio of simplicity to variety. A lot of people will prefer something more like Dungeon Crawl or ToME because they have so much stuff in them, but if you find giant walls of classes, races, and skills intimidating, then Brogue is much more approachable. I haven't played it in like a year, though, so I don't know how much has changed.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
    Frem
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    So guys, this'll be a doozy. I've been getting back to Cataclysm DDA, and figured that the smartest way to proceed is to start as a Tweaker suffering from amphetamine withdrawal, who was surprised by the apocalypse in his shower. Also suffering from an infected bite wound, and influenza from the very start. In a burning building.

    Oh, and he's also got poor hearing, he's ugly, can't lie to save his life, has insomnia and lactose intolerance and poor impulse control with firearms.

    Nothing could possibly go wrong!

    (all of these negatives do give me a lot of points to distribute though)

    Drake
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    I'm laughing because I bounced right the hell off Dungeon Crawl even though it looked completely amazing. One of those games where I think, "If only this had been a thing when I was a kid, and then I would have had time for it." And ToME..Oh, I play it, but I tend to go rogue or balwark to keep it simpler. Not that rogue is really so simple when it comes down to it :)

    I'll check out Brogue then. I'm excited for a tileset? I guess I'm excited for a tileset.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    Brogue: can't get passed it's college fraternity theme.

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    The goal is to do a kegstand on the Keg of Yendor.

    ElvenshaeRhan9SceptreKristmas KthulhuBasil
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    I grew up on Nethack, and have played my fair share of DCSS, but whenever I want to roguelike these days it's always Brogue.

    It's everything I love about the genre, and quite frankly the game is beautiful.

    DrakeMadPen
  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    Drake wrote: »
    The goal is to do a kegstand on the Keg of Yendor.

    I was able to train my bro in so much beer pong that he could slay rival bros just by throwing a cheap ping pong ball at them really hard. Fun times. Too bad he died of syphilis.

    DrakeMadPenElvenshae
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    I have a really hard time trying new roguelikes. I don't know why. Well, maybe it's because I don't have a ton of time and have too many other games to look at...I guess I'd rather return to the familiar that I know I already like.

    Most of the time I would just go to Nethack (telnethack is easiest, play anywhere!) or ADOM, or do some Dwarf Fortress adventure mode which is surprisingly fun.

    Actually two of my favorite roguelikes were made for portable platforms, but are playable on PC as well. Calcrogue by Jim Babcock (for TI graphing calculators), and POWDER by Jeff Lait (for GBA and DS homebrew). Neither of them have a ridiculous amount of content, they're both very well balanced with just enough stuff to be fun without requiring a library of knowledge to understand. Magic is well implemented in these games too, I feel like often it's an afterthought or a much less viable method of play in roguelikes, but it's fun in both of these. Calcrogue lets you play a summoner with the Necromancer class which is pretty cool.

    Calcrogue is more on the nethack end of the spectrum, feels very familiar, while POWDER is more of its own thing. Being designed originally for the GBA, nothing can move diagonally (restricted to the d-pad) which can change up your normal strategies. You gain power very quickly and can really feel the difference in a new piece of equipment, weapons and the skillbooks that go along with them are well designed. Gods are well implemented.

    Both of these games just feel a little unassuming, comfortable in being smaller scale roguelikes with tight mechanics and nothing too outlandish. Focusing on nailing the elements they do include and just being fun to play.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Nbsp wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    The goal is to do a kegstand on the Keg of Yendor.

    I was able to train my bro in so much beer pong that he could slay rival bros just by throwing a cheap ping pong ball at them really hard. Fun times. Too bad he died of syphilis.

    There's actually a good game in here, I think. An alcoholic bro, with a drink of choice, which works like a class, trying to survive one night in Mission Beach. You gain levels and get more powerful, but of course, as the night goes on things get more and more off the rails, because obviously you have to keep drinking to survive.

    Nah, never mind. That's a stupid idea for a game.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    Nbsp wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    The goal is to do a kegstand on the Keg of Yendor.

    I was able to train my bro in so much beer pong that he could slay rival bros just by throwing a cheap ping pong ball at them really hard. Fun times. Too bad he died of syphilis.

    There's actually a good game in here, I think. An alcoholic bro, with a drink of choice, which works like a class, trying to survive one night in Mission Beach. You gain levels and get more powerful, but of course, as the night goes on things get more and more off the rails, because obviously you have to keep drinking to survive.

    Nah, never mind. That's a stupid idea for a game.


    Nah, I think its a good idea.

    The alcohols could work more like deities: you choose a favorite one and drinking it gives you certain advantages, but you could drink other beers with varying or random effects. Beer in general could probably recover your health, your favorite beer is always best.

    Your bro could have stats like charisma, which you build up by banging sorority girls. Every girl is rated from 1 to 10, so the higher you bang the more desirability you earn. Eventually being very charismatic gets girls to follow you when you get close and earns respect of fellow bros, which lets you recruit more and more bros to go out and kick ass with. You could also hook up your fellow bros by using a wingman ability on girls and sending them to your bros, earning you more respect and building up your own fellow bros charisma.

    Your frat house could be like a fort, which you can build up overtime as you earn money for your frat. You could invade other frats either by yourself or with your bros to kill off all the enemy bros and then either take over their house or raze it to the ground.

    There could also be a class system where your forced to go to classes regularly to avoid failing. On the college campus you'll probably encounter various "freaks" like 'a cracked-out 5-year liberal arts major'. Don't get your bro killed by these nasty fucks.





  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    I have a really hard time trying new roguelikes. I don't know why. Well, maybe it's because I don't have a ton of time and have too many other games to look at...I guess I'd rather return to the familiar that I know I already like.

    Most of the time I would just go to Nethack (telnethack is easiest, play anywhere!) or ADOM, or do some Dwarf Fortress adventure mode which is surprisingly fun.

    Actually two of my favorite roguelikes were made for portable platforms, but are playable on PC as well. Calcrogue by Jim Babcock (for TI graphing calculators), and POWDER by Jeff Lait (for GBA and DS homebrew). Neither of them have a ridiculous amount of content, they're both very well balanced with just enough stuff to be fun without requiring a library of knowledge to understand. Magic is well implemented in these games too, I feel like often it's an afterthought or a much less viable method of play in roguelikes, but it's fun in both of these. Calcrogue lets you play a summoner with the Necromancer class which is pretty cool.

    Calcrogue is more on the nethack end of the spectrum, feels very familiar, while POWDER is more of its own thing. Being designed originally for the GBA, nothing can move diagonally (restricted to the d-pad) which can change up your normal strategies. You gain power very quickly and can really feel the difference in a new piece of equipment, weapons and the skillbooks that go along with them are well designed. Gods are well implemented.

    Both of these games just feel a little unassuming, comfortable in being smaller scale roguelikes with tight mechanics and nothing too outlandish. Focusing on nailing the elements they do include and just being fun to play.

    I thought Shiren for the DS was pretty fantastic. The fact that the interface didn't suck was amazing given that the game was not really a smaller scale roguelike.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Orogogus wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    How do people feel about brogue? I'm not sure I can get past the name.

    I tried it a bit over the weekend and liked it well enough. It's a simple Roguelike that will kill you a lot. No classes, no skills. I don't know if people who haven't played Rogue will like it so much, but it's easy enough to download and make four or five runs.

    I kind of wish there weren't so much deep water/pits/lava everywhere. And there were more traps than I was expecting. Plus allies seem to be more important than I'd like -- all my good runs involved multiple ogre allies. But I haven't gotten very far yet.

    The great thing about Brogue is that, while it can screw you over with unlucky RNG, the majority of dungeons are pretty fair. Most of the time your death could have been avoided had you been experienced with the threat and understood its limitations. The 'build your character class as you play style' means you have a bunch of meaningful decisions to make right away. Compare that to say... nethack, where you kind of cruise through the early game on autopilot. The interface is also pretty slick in the way it really highlights everything important on the screen.


    Sceptre on
    Drake
  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    The other great thing about Brogue is that is helps you make some of those tough decisions. Iirc, the "D" key opens a list of all the randomized potions and such in the game and keeps track of which ones you've identified.

  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    In the other Brogue, the D key does something else

    Drake
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    I thought Shiren for the DS was pretty fantastic. The fact that the interface didn't suck was amazing given that the game was not really a smaller scale roguelike.

    Every Japanese roguelike I've ever played has just felt slightly "off" in some ways. I can't quite put my finger on it. And they all feel a little similar too, whether it's Shiren or Pokemon Mystery Dungeon or Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon. I don't hate them but somehow they don't usually scratch the same itch for me that a game like Nethack does.

    IIRC there tends to be a big focus on one-time-use items, which I hate because I'm always reluctant to use them, because what if I need them later. And there's usually a dearth of equipment compared to western roguelikes. It's been a long time since I've played some of them though.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    Oh man, I spent a ton of time with Elona and Elona Shooter
    I think its the most bizarre game I've ever played by a wide margin. I remember breeding the little sister with all kinds of monsters to give her extra limbs and such.



    steam_sig.png
    AntinumericEtiowsaTofystedeth
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    Nbsp wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    The goal is to do a kegstand on the Keg of Yendor.

    I was able to train my bro in so much beer pong that he could slay rival bros just by throwing a cheap ping pong ball at them really hard. Fun times. Too bad he died of syphilis.

    There's actually a good game in here, I think. An alcoholic bro, with a drink of choice, which works like a class, trying to survive one night in Mission Beach. You gain levels and get more powerful, but of course, as the night goes on things get more and more off the rails, because obviously you have to keep drinking to survive.

    Nah, never mind. That's a stupid idea for a game.

    There was a Finnish roguelike called Spurgux (I think) back in the day where you played an alcoholic and if your blood alcohol dropped to zero you died. You fought doormen, hippies, skinheads, wandering dogs, politicians and other creatures of the urban jungle. It was really simple and not all that great after a few tries but it must have something right given I still remember playing it 20 years ago.

    Gotta love the internet, found a youtube clip of somebody playing it.

    MadPenElvenshae
  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Abyss Odyssey is rough. But man, it's super fucking gorgeous.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    I played the shit out of Angband since the late 90s, and only beat it in 2010. Using a High Elf Priest was the last class I expected to work, but being able to cast Complete Heal with 100% assurance was really the only way I was able to do it.

    It's colored my strategy for how I play modern games like Diablo and Path of Exile: don't focus so much on a build based on gear that you might get, use the stuff you've randomly acquired now to make it work.

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    I picked up XLarn on Steam the other day since I've been vaguely curious about this one for a while and it's hard to find a compiled version these days. This comes with a clean tileset, the interface is a bit on the clunky side but nothing that should daunt a fan of the genre. The most interesting thing so far is the dungeon generation is pretty great. Windy labyrinths with large chambers and great halls, filled with loot and beasties. There is also an overworld village that connects all the dungeons and has a shops a bank and a college for training your character. There are no classes, character development is open, which is a pretty advanced concept for such an old game, even if the choices are limited.

    It's a pretty neat take on the genre from a time when the conventions were a bit more fluid. For example there is a time limit. If you fail to find a particular potion for your sick daughter she will die within 300 Mobuls (I'm assuming this is the game equivalent of a day). Also if you succeed in your quest the next game you play the character will have to pay taxes depending on how much loot you bought to the surface. There are 99 difficulty levels to choose from, each bringing new content. It definitely has its own flavor.

    Drake on
    Kristmas KthulhuElvenshae
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    Nbsp wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    The goal is to do a kegstand on the Keg of Yendor.

    I was able to train my bro in so much beer pong that he could slay rival bros just by throwing a cheap ping pong ball at them really hard. Fun times. Too bad he died of syphilis.

    There's actually a good game in here, I think. An alcoholic bro, with a drink of choice, which works like a class, trying to survive one night in Mission Beach. You gain levels and get more powerful, but of course, as the night goes on things get more and more off the rails, because obviously you have to keep drinking to survive.

    Nah, never mind. That's a stupid idea for a game.

    There was a Finnish roguelike called Spurgux (I think) back in the day where you played an alcoholic and if your blood alcohol dropped to zero you died. You fought doormen, hippies, skinheads, wandering dogs, politicians and other creatures of the urban jungle. It was really simple and not all that great after a few tries but it must have something right given I still remember playing it 20 years ago.

    Gotta love the internet, found a youtube clip of somebody playing it.

    Just so you know, Spurgu is slang for an alcoholic hobo.

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Oh hey lookit this the previous release of XLarn is free over on their website. It's definitely got a bit of Diablo vibe to it's hack n slash dungeon crawling. I'm even gathering large piles of loot on the village level. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of "those Unix games" (among many others of course) that was inspirational for Diablo. It certainly feels that way with the goblins and demons and my fireball slinging warrior dude.

    edit: omfg gag me with a spoon how 80s is this promo video? :lol:

    Drake on
    Rhan9
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    You guys didn't steer me wrong. 1. Wow, the ASCII graphics for Caves of Qud are really nice. The game runs faster too. 2. Brogue is very pretty. Didn't really play it much yet, but it is pretty.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    I hate rougelikes that have one tile wide corridors. Way too claustrophobic.


    Caves of Qud was made in Unity, nothing ASCII about it.

    Nbsp on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Nbsp wrote: »
    I hate rougelikes that have one tile wide corridors. Way too claustrophobic.


    Caves of Qud was made in Unity, nothing ASCII about it.

    Personally I like narrow corridors. It's a nice contrast to wide open rooms, can give you an "oh shit" moment as you try to retreat to where you have more space to dance around the enemy. Adds a little danger when you can get surrounded more easily and have to find a way to break out...but also strategy as you can hide from strong monsters behind weaker ones.

    On the subject of ASCII, it has nothing to do with the development platform. ASCII is a character set. I've seen other graphical roguelikes have ASCII character graphics made for them, no matter the platform they were created with or run on.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    But a graphical ASCII tileset itself isn't the same as a raw ASCII character set.

    Drake
  • VizardObserverVizardObserver Registered User regular
    Anyone played IVAN (or the additions, LIVAN and CLIVAN)? Have to say it's my favorite roguelike, brutal difficulty level and the possibility of having arms made purely of banana flesh is enticing.

    Kristmas KthulhuRhesus Positive
  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    Anyone played IVAN (or the additions, LIVAN and CLIVAN)? Have to say it's my favorite roguelike, brutal difficulty level and the possibility of having arms made purely of banana flesh is enticing.

    IVAN has to be my favourite Roguelike. Shame the developer stopped working on it :(

    steam_sig.png
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Nbsp wrote: »
    I hate rougelikes that have one tile wide corridors. Way too claustrophobic.


    Caves of Qud was made in Unity, nothing ASCII about it.

    There is still the original which uses ASCII. It's been around for years. You can get it here free and stuff. It's currently frozen while the tiled version is getting the development. It'll be simple for them to fold those updates back into the console version because that's what is running inside of Unity. Basically they are using Unity as a kind of wrapper for various things like the tiles and upcoming audio.

    MahnmutElvenshaeAntinumeric
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Nbsp wrote: »
    But a graphical ASCII tileset itself isn't the same as a raw ASCII character set.

    Sure, but does that make the post wrong?
    MadPen wrote: »
    Wow, the ASCII graphics for Caves of Qud are really nice.

    I dunno, just seems like a technicality. If they'd said "the Unity graphics are nice" I wouldn't take the same meaning from it. I get what they mean, the graphics use tiles that are letters, numbers and symbols instead of pictures, and they look good in spite of it. :P

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
    Elvenshae
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It is pretty different though. edit: At first I kinda hated the pea green filter in the Unity version but it is growing on me, like a mutant jungle fungus I guess. It gives the game a Pipboy Map kind of feel.

    Here is the console version of CoQ
    3D3ksrX.jpg

    And the Unity version.
    ?.jpg

    Drake on
  • NbspNbsp she laughs, like God her mind's like a diamondRegistered User regular
    Not only is it a pea green filter it's got scanlines and is slightly fisheyed.

    Drake
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    If I can recommend the original Shiren the Wanderer, specifically the Nintendo DS port from a few years back: I think it's the most faithful console-only roguelike at the time of writing. So faithful that the guys over at Roguelike Radio have sung its praises.

    Other games in the same series (Mystery Dungeon) are either tied to other franchises (which I often find introduces distracting elements) and/or lock the core roguelike experience behind rote singleplayer RPG campaigns.

    I don't believe Shiren DS is too expensive on the second-market, either.

    Shiren on the DS is super tight, there is not one wasted mechanic in the game.

    It is also home to my greatest gaming agony when I stuffed my awesome sword of awesomeness into a jar of change by accident. I whimpered.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    I actually went back to the default tileset. Biggest reason? Otherwise trash heaps are indistinguishable from corpses when holding the alt key.

    I hear you on the ASCII. It's not like you can play the steam version using putty. I wasn't completely sure it was just a tileset, though.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    If I can recommend the original Shiren the Wanderer, specifically the Nintendo DS port from a few years back: I think it's the most faithful console-only roguelike at the time of writing. So faithful that the guys over at Roguelike Radio have sung its praises.

    Other games in the same series (Mystery Dungeon) are either tied to other franchises (which I often find introduces distracting elements) and/or lock the core roguelike experience behind rote singleplayer RPG campaigns.

    I don't believe Shiren DS is too expensive on the second-market, either.

    Shiren on the DS is super tight, there is not one wasted mechanic in the game.

    It is also home to my greatest gaming agony when I stuffed my awesome sword of awesomeness into a jar of change by accident. I whimpered.
    I accidentally threw a valuable jar through the wall of the warehouse with a pitching armband once. Bad times.

    My big problem with Shiren the Wanderer is that a lot of the postgame content ends up being kind of worthless. The main game is good, and then the Trap and especially Bufu dungeon are good, but after that the balance is shot. The later dungeons are designed to be basically impossible to even attempt unless you meld together a +20 Sword of Awesomeness. But if you spend five hours grinding a +20 sword, you'd hate to die and lose it, so instead you spend 15 hours grinding a +60 sword, at which point either the dungeon is trivial or some enemy can STILL screw you over (because Shiren enemies are REALLY GOOD at screwing you over horribly in creative ways), and now you have another bazillion hours to grind through before you can even try again. So I just didn't bother.

    Fay's Final Puzzle should be good, but in my experience the early floors are ridiculously hard and I never got anywhere. Maybe someday I'll learn the trick to not sucking at it.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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