National standards are basically inevitable (and necessary). For example, a kid who just moved here from another part of the country was placed in Honors math because he was ahead of his peers at his old school. He's really struggling now. That kind of thing is dumb and shouldn't happen.
The states with the best education (much of New England, Minnesota for example) are basically on par with the best countries in the world. The worst states are at Eastern European/rapidly developing nations level.
The problem is how do you raise standards for the Mississippi without dumbing them down for Massachusetts.
It's usually even more local than that, but yes.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
National standards are basically inevitable (and necessary). For example, a kid who just moved here from another part of the country was placed in Honors math because he was ahead of his peers at his old school. He's really struggling now. That kind of thing is dumb and shouldn't happen.
The states with the best education (much of New England, Minnesota for example) are basically on par with the best countries in the world. The worst states are at Eastern European/rapidly developing nations level.
The problem is how do you raise standards for the Mississippi without dumbing them down for Massachusetts.
Mainly, it comes down to shit ton of money, and actually valuing education.
And from education discussions in US i have seen, people seem unwilling to pay (through taxes) for education, and downright deride education as "elitist".
As long as education is decided locally by the people, you're going to keep getting shit education in places where people are already ignorant morons.
So i guess it is not going to happen anytime soon.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
Nyysjan on
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
I was actually, watching some interviews with our recently elected prime minister up here in sunny Canada, when I stumbled across this clip. Senator Sanders speaks at the end portion of the clip, but I thought he represented himself quite well. Admittedly, I am not American, but if I were I suspect he'd be my candidate of choice. In any case, I thought you fine folks might find the clip interesting at the very least.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
Wish I could agree with that post twice.
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CreamstoutWhat you think I program for, to push a fuckin' quad-core?Registered Userregular
edited October 2015
The Charlie Rose interview with Bernie (10/27/2015) has been posted.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
Account not recoverable. So long.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
I can't speak to Texas, but Florida also has one of the better funded education systems in the country. Tourist money pours into the state from every corner of the earth. Income and sales tax can stay ridiculously low. Most of the Northern states rely solely on their own population for tax revenue.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
When public-school students enrolled in Texas’ largest charter program open their biology workbooks, they will read that the fossil record is “sketchy.” That evolution is “dogma” and an “unproved theory” with no experimental basis. They will be told that leading scientists dispute the mechanisms of evolution and the age of the Earth. These are all lies.
The more than 17,000 students in the Responsive Education Solutions charter system will learn in their history classes that some residents of the Philippines were “pagans in various levels of civilization.” They’ll read in a history textbook that feminism forced women to turn to the government as a “surrogate husband.”
Responsive Ed has a secular veneer and is funded by public money, but it has been connected from its inception to the creationist movement and to far-right fundamentalists who seek to undermine the separation of church and state.
The opening line of the workbook section declares, “In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth.”
Infiltrating and subverting the charter-school movement has allowed Responsive Ed to carry out its religious agenda—and it is succeeding. Operating more than 65 campuses in Texas, Arkansas, and Indiana, Responsive Ed receives more than $82 million in taxpayer money annually, and it is expanding, with 20 more Texas campuses opening in 2014.
Charter schools may be run independently, but they are still public schools, and through an open records request, I was able to obtain a set of Responsive Ed’s biology “Knowledge Units,” workbooks that Responsive Ed students must complete to pass biology. These workbooks both overtly and underhandedly discredit evidence-based science and allow creationism into public-school classrooms.
Another shot was fired in the never-ending battle over Texas textbooks last week, when Roni Dean-Burren of Pearland, Texas, posted a screenshot of her 15-year-old son’s new world geography textbook. The picture was of a map with a caption that exemplifies—perhaps unintentionally, in this case—the controversial changes Texas has made to its social-studies textbooks in recent years: “The Atlantic Slave Trade between the 1500s and 1800s brought millions of workers from Africa to the southern United States to work on agricultural plantations.”
The next day, Dean-Burren—a former Pearland English teacher and now a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Houston—followed up with a Facebook video of herself examining the textbook.
Depends if we think those tests measure anything useful. (They don't)
Right. Minnesota does well on tests? They value knowledge. Texas does well? MEANINGLESS STANDARDIZED ARGLE-BARGLE CAN NEVER MEASURE REAL KNOWLEDGE SIR.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
That was in Texas, I didn't have anything for Florida. It is Florida, I'm sure they have some weird shit in their curriculum too.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
That was in Texas, I didn't have anything for Florida. It is Florida, I'm sure they have some weird shit in their curriculum too.
I know that specific example was in Texas, but you said "they" in reply to a post about Florida and Texas.
And I've never encountered anything "weird" except for teaching to the test with the FCAT. But I don't think that's uniquely a Florida "thing".
Depends if we think those tests measure anything useful. (They don't)
Where's the Houston Space Center again?
That's in Minnesota, right?
The Johnson Space Center. And it's not in Texas because they produce high quality scientists.
Texas has multiple top tier research universities and is middle of the road on high school education primarily because it has some of the best and worst schools in the nation.
Texas might be super conservative and there might be a ton of bumfuck border towns with underfunded schools, but pretending that their education system is uniformly terrible, especially at the university level, is grossly misinformed.
You'd be correct in saying that the Texas School Board and Rick Perry have certainly tried to make it worse, though.
The Johnson space center is in Texas for the climate(all of the potential sites were in the south) and because the land was donated(as well as some other reasons). Not because they wanted Texan scientists, though being close to Rice was a plus.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
That was in Texas, I didn't have anything for Florida. It is Florida, I'm sure they have some weird shit in their curriculum too.
Having attended both a normal public school and one with a "gifted" program in Florida, I can also confirm there was nothing that ridiculous in the classroom.
This is just north vs. south bullshit and I would think people would know better.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
That was in Texas, I didn't have anything for Florida. It is Florida, I'm sure they have some weird shit in their curriculum too.
Having attended both a normal public school and one with a "gifted" program in Florida, I can also confirm there was nothing that ridiculous in the classroom.
This is just north vs. south bullshit and I would think people would know better.
I was also in the "Gifted" program. The only difference I ever experienced between "Gifted" and non "Gifted" programs was that the "Gifted" programs were accelerated (in the case of the science magnet school I was at) and had more freedom in curriculum. Unfortunately as I advanced from elementary to high school the program became less emphasized to the point that it disappeared at my school.
We also started typing in elementary at a time when most kids didn't even have PCs at home.
The best way to improve education in Mississippi is to bring welfare back and increase food stamps
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
That was in Texas, I didn't have anything for Florida. It is Florida, I'm sure they have some weird shit in their curriculum too.
Having attended both a normal public school and one with a "gifted" program in Florida, I can also confirm there was nothing that ridiculous in the classroom.
This is just north vs. south bullshit and I would think people would know better.
The stats on Not-South vs South are pretty damning.
Well Florida does have something of a reputation, and the Florida Man twitter account is pretty genius. Florida is also a lot more North than South, really. I personally went to K-12 in Texas, and at least back then there wasn't any of this nonsense about the Triangle Trade bringing over "workers from Africa" or Creationism being taught in the classroom. Things certainly could have changed, and my particular high school was probably an outlier anyway (while I and before me my sister attended, our school consistently went to at least the State level of Academic Decathlon, and once while I was there to Nationals where our team finished third overall). Things can change over the course of 20 years, though, so I can't speak to the current state of education in Texas.
Florida's reputation for crazy shit is almost entirely because police reports are public record and thus easy to pull for headlines, not because they're particularly crazy.
Again, the South performs poorly in schools overall, but the gap narrows tremendously or reverses when you account for income and race, which has far more to do with education than geographic location.
Earlier in this thread, someone was saying that one potential concern with Bernie is that--had he been president at the time of the mortgage crisis--he would have vetoed TARP. I get on the internet this morning and Hillary is on Colbert saying she would let banks fail.
That's one particular case where I'm glad I don't believe her.
Really? because frankly if it happens again I'm all for her smashing those fuckers.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Depends on the details of how she'd let them fail. Straight up bankruptcy like Lehman did would be bad. Nationalization with shareholders losing everything and bond holders taking a major haircut, but with the government providing funding for a slow unwind of positions would be good.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
That's one particular case where I'm glad I don't believe her.
Yeah, for the record, I think she's bullshitting, too. If she actually got into office, and it actually did happen, I think she would renege on this comment. It's a good trade-off: guaranteed positive campaign results now at the risk of some potential disillusionment later (which there is always some of anyway).
I forget who I was reading yesterday, but I agreed with their assessment that Hillary is appealing to the blue collar / middle class when she bashes the banks, and the banks are probably okay with it because they likely feel like they are in on the game.
Earlier in this thread, someone was saying that one potential concern with Bernie is that--had he been president at the time of the mortgage crisis--he would have vetoed TARP. I get on the internet this morning and Hillary is on Colbert saying she would let banks fail.
She's just doing the usual political posturing, like when she said that the US should shoot down Russian aircraft over Syria, or when she said that she now opposes the TPP, or when she supported DOMA in the Senate, or when she said that she wants to get the Citizens United decision overturned.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Earlier in this thread, someone was saying that one potential concern with Bernie is that--had he been president at the time of the mortgage crisis--he would have vetoed TARP. I get on the internet this morning and Hillary is on Colbert saying she would let banks fail.
She's just doing the usual political posturing, like when she said that the US should shoot down Russian aircraft over Syria, or when she said that she now opposes the TPP, or when she supported DOMA in the Senate, or when she said that she wants to get the Citizens United decision overturned.
She said what now? 'Cause there's a difference between posturing and crazy talk.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Earlier in this thread, someone was saying that one potential concern with Bernie is that--had he been president at the time of the mortgage crisis--he would have vetoed TARP. I get on the internet this morning and Hillary is on Colbert saying she would let banks fail.
She's just doing the usual political posturing, like when she said that the US should shoot down Russian aircraft over Syria, or when she said that she now opposes the TPP, or when she supported DOMA in the Senate, or when she said that she wants to get the Citizens United decision overturned.
Yeah, sure bro. /eyeroll
I mean, jesus christ, you do remember where Citizens United came from don't you?
Earlier in this thread, someone was saying that one potential concern with Bernie is that--had he been president at the time of the mortgage crisis--he would have vetoed TARP. I get on the internet this morning and Hillary is on Colbert saying she would let banks fail.
If you read the piece, it turns out her position is actually a lot more nuanced than that:
"Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes," Clinton said emphatically. "First of all, under Dodd-Frank, that is what will happen because we now have stress tests and I'm going to impose a risk fee on the big bank if they engage in risky behavior but they have to know, their shareholders have to know that yes, they will fail and if they're too big to fail. Then under my plan and others that have been proposed, they may have to be broken up."
So in short, her position is actually to make it so that banks aren't "too big to fail", so that they can be allowed to fail.
Earlier in this thread, someone was saying that one potential concern with Bernie is that--had he been president at the time of the mortgage crisis--he would have vetoed TARP. I get on the internet this morning and Hillary is on Colbert saying she would let banks fail.
If you read the piece, it turns out her position is actually a lot more nuanced than that:
"Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes," Clinton said emphatically. "First of all, under Dodd-Frank, that is what will happen because we now have stress tests and I'm going to impose a risk fee on the big bank if they engage in risky behavior but they have to know, their shareholders have to know that yes, they will fail and if they're too big to fail. Then under my plan and others that have been proposed, they may have to be broken up."
So in short, her position is actually to make it so that banks aren't "too big to fail", so that they can be allowed to fail.
Wait... are you telling me that a journalist took someone's nuanced position on an issue and simplified it into a clickbaity controversial-sounding headline?!?!
Posts
It's usually even more local than that, but yes.
Sanders' speech at the Jefferson Jackson dinner.
e: It doesn't link to the appropriate time, sorry.
2h 16m 26s
Mainly, it comes down to shit ton of money, and actually valuing education.
And from education discussions in US i have seen, people seem unwilling to pay (through taxes) for education, and downright deride education as "elitist".
As long as education is decided locally by the people, you're going to keep getting shit education in places where people are already ignorant morons.
So i guess it is not going to happen anytime soon.
the US doesn't have that large of an education problem, it's mostly a poverty problem
poverty problem yes
but also a cultural problem with people not valuing knowledge
and infrastructural problem with how education is handled (ie. Texas Schoolboard)
Wish I could agree with that post twice.
I think people who are enthusiastic about Bernie will be encouraged and people who are skeptical of his approach will have their skepticism reinforced
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Texas and Florida have among the best performing school systems in the US, as measured by math and reading scores - once you disaggregate by race and language.
In other words: that various liberal Northern states do better on education because they "value knowledge" is just self-flattering myth. They mostly do better because they're lily-white and rich.
I can't speak to Texas, but Florida also has one of the better funded education systems in the country. Tourist money pours into the state from every corner of the earth. Income and sales tax can stay ridiculously low. Most of the Northern states rely solely on their own population for tax revenue.
They also teach creationism and that slaves were merely "workers from Africa."
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/creationism_in_texas_public_schools_undermining_the_charter_movement.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled/2015/10/06/texas_textbook_controversy_roni_dean_burren_finds_omission_in_son_s_geography.html
Right. Minnesota does well on tests? They value knowledge. Texas does well? MEANINGLESS STANDARDIZED ARGLE-BARGLE CAN NEVER MEASURE REAL KNOWLEDGE SIR.
I attended multiple public schools in the state of Florida, from a science magnet school to the most looked down upon high school with the lowest "grade" in the district (at one point an N/A because of an FCAT scandal involving some of the faculty), and never encountered Creationism in a science class (from freshman Biology to AP Biology) nor misrepresentation of slavery in social studies.
That was in Texas, I didn't have anything for Florida. It is Florida, I'm sure they have some weird shit in their curriculum too.
I know that specific example was in Texas, but you said "they" in reply to a post about Florida and Texas.
And I've never encountered anything "weird" except for teaching to the test with the FCAT. But I don't think that's uniquely a Florida "thing".
Where's the Houston Space Center again?
That's in Minnesota, right?
The Johnson Space Center. And it's not in Texas because they produce high quality scientists.
Texas has multiple top tier research universities and is middle of the road on high school education primarily because it has some of the best and worst schools in the nation.
Texas might be super conservative and there might be a ton of bumfuck border towns with underfunded schools, but pretending that their education system is uniformly terrible, especially at the university level, is grossly misinformed.
You'd be correct in saying that the Texas School Board and Rick Perry have certainly tried to make it worse, though.
Having attended both a normal public school and one with a "gifted" program in Florida, I can also confirm there was nothing that ridiculous in the classroom.
This is just north vs. south bullshit and I would think people would know better.
I was also in the "Gifted" program. The only difference I ever experienced between "Gifted" and non "Gifted" programs was that the "Gifted" programs were accelerated (in the case of the science magnet school I was at) and had more freedom in curriculum. Unfortunately as I advanced from elementary to high school the program became less emphasized to the point that it disappeared at my school.
We also started typing in elementary at a time when most kids didn't even have PCs at home.
The stats on Not-South vs South are pretty damning.
Again, the South performs poorly in schools overall, but the gap narrows tremendously or reverses when you account for income and race, which has far more to do with education than geographic location.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/politics/hillary-clinton-colbert-big-banks-fail/index.html
Really? because frankly if it happens again I'm all for her smashing those fuckers.
Yeah, for the record, I think she's bullshitting, too. If she actually got into office, and it actually did happen, I think she would renege on this comment. It's a good trade-off: guaranteed positive campaign results now at the risk of some potential disillusionment later (which there is always some of anyway).
I forget who I was reading yesterday, but I agreed with their assessment that Hillary is appealing to the blue collar / middle class when she bashes the banks, and the banks are probably okay with it because they likely feel like they are in on the game.
She's just doing the usual political posturing, like when she said that the US should shoot down Russian aircraft over Syria, or when she said that she now opposes the TPP, or when she supported DOMA in the Senate, or when she said that she wants to get the Citizens United decision overturned.
She said what now? 'Cause there's a difference between posturing and crazy talk.
Yeah, sure bro. /eyeroll
I mean, jesus christ, you do remember where Citizens United came from don't you?
If you read the piece, it turns out her position is actually a lot more nuanced than that:
So in short, her position is actually to make it so that banks aren't "too big to fail", so that they can be allowed to fail.
Wait... are you telling me that a journalist took someone's nuanced position on an issue and simplified it into a clickbaity controversial-sounding headline?!?!