Whelmed / 11:30AM "Also this was by far the most comprehensible short work they've ever done outside of Automata, so it's weird that this is the one that gets the big rant."
Mike,
You are taking this quote out of context. The first panel was very slow. The only information we got was that the parents loved their Grace. It wasn't until we got the other parts of the story did we realize that the dad was not the nightlight and it was the mom.
Yeah, and while we're at it, why couldn't Palahnuik have just told us what was up with Tyler Durden in that first chapter? Did he really think I was going to read like, the whole story to figure it out? I've got places to be!
I'm sorry to be sarcastic but you're being a little ridiculous as regards to writing skill as opposed to medium. Pace issues are a thing, and I would agree with the idea that Jerry is also not suited to releasing a long story in tiny chunks like this instead of all at once, because he's someone who both layers a story and works a lot in implication instead of explicit language. But that's a problem that can go away once we've seen the entire work laid out.
So yeah, when we read the first comic we had no idea what was going on. Now that it's the end and we've seen the story play out, the beginning is the necessary foundation for the rest of story. And the foundation is a pretty important part!
Yes, Mike and Jerry should definitely split up and go their own separate ways. It's not like they're lifelong besties, or hugely successful business and brand owners, or anything.
...
What
Well, it's obvious that Jerry is holding Mike back. He's a terrible writer with basically no real experience, so how could them going their separate ways not be anything but beneficial to all? How, I ask you?
Just gonna say that when Jerry writes these comics he purposefully leaves room for me to tell the story with the art. He once saw a script for a comic book in which the writer described the action in each panel and it made him sick. That's not a collaboration. The script for nightlight has nothing but page numbers and even those are loose. He tells what he can/wants to and trusts me to tell the rest. If I don't do that it's not his fault it's mine.
Mike,
You are taking this quote out of context. The first panel was very slow. The only information we got was that the parents loved their Grace. It wasn't until we got the other parts of the story did we realize that the dad was not the nightlight and it was the mom.
Yeah, and while we're at it, why couldn't Palahnuik have just told us what was up with Tyler Durden in that first chapter? Did he really think I was going to read like, the whole story to figure it out? I've got places to be!
I'm sorry to be sarcastic but you're being a little ridiculous as regards to writing skill as opposed to medium. Pace issues are a thing, and I would agree with the idea that Jerry is also not suited to releasing a long story in tiny chunks like this instead of all at once, because he's someone who both layers a story and works a lot in implication instead of explicit language. But that's a problem that can go away once we've seen the entire work laid out.
So yeah, when we read the first comic we had no idea what was going on. Now that it's the end and we've seen the story play out, the beginning is the necessary foundation for the rest of story. And the foundation is a pretty important part!
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I promise. Haha.
I just feel like Mike was just trying to pull two parts of the guys comment together to make him seem like an idiot. And by making him sound like he didn't know what he was talking about with that line then maybe people would think he didn't know what he was talking about with the rest of his comment. I just think people are too quick to jump and defend people instead of looking at both sides of the argument.
I completely agree on the idea that you need to have the whole story before you can make your call on the story.
I agree in the fact that part 1 (by itself) was slow (The parents love Grace). But when you look at the whole story, the whole thing with the mother dying happened too quickly. That's how I took it. He might have meant it differently.
Yes, Mike and Jerry should definitely split up and go their own separate ways. It's not like they're lifelong besties, or hugely successful business and brand owners, or anything.
...
What
Well, it's obvious that Jerry is holding Mike back. He's a terrible writer with basically no real experience, so how could them going their separate ways not be anything but beneficial to all? How, I ask you?
I don't think Jerry is holding Mike back at all. If you've seen the PATV series you really get the sense of how well they work together and bounce ideas off each other.
In this case though, I think Mike should have done it by himself. He one line pitch for the story felt like something pixar would have came up with at the dinner where they created the majority of the early movies they released (up to Wall-E I believe). I feel like Jerry in this case was trying to create something that was a little deeper than what the majority of people wanted in the Nightlight story. Everyone's imaginations went crazy and in their own directions after they read just the one line from Mike. When the story didn't match up they got a little disappointed that it didn't turn out how they pictured it.
Just gonna say that when Jerry writes these comics he purposefully leaves room for me to tell the story with the art. He once saw a script for a comic book in which the writer described the action in each panel and it made him sick. That's not a collaboration. The script for nightlight has nothing but page numbers and even those are loose. He tells what he can/wants to and trusts me to tell the rest. If I don't do that it's not his fault it's mine.
A little off topic, but have you ever read or heard of the manga series Bakuman? It's very similar to the situation you and Jerry are in.
I really don't understand the complaints about pacing. They came out and said that it was a 6 comic arc from the outset. The arc is about Grace. Not her mom. Not her dad. Not her brother. And these guys never lay out the entire plot in the first or second comic. It's not their style, likely never will be, and wishing it was is a futile effort.
I really don't think that we're supposed to be all that invested about the mom dying because we don't know the mom. What we're supposed to take from it is that Grace is being forced to take on a responsibility far sooner than she otherwise would, and that she might not be ready. Which sucks for her. And that cancer sucks. Fuck cancer.
It's a Spiderman setup. We're not supposed to be very invested in Uncle Ben. His death is mostly just a mechanic that sets Spiderman on his path to becoming a hero. So too with Grace's mom. And Mike and Jerry know that. We have one-ish panels (I'm counting the dad-Grace-mom Oreo hug as the 'ish') of Grace's mom before she's dead. That's done purposely. If the mom were important beyond passing the torch, she would've had more time on screen before the axe fell in order to maximize the emotional impact.
I had no trouble following the basic story, although I had to go back and re-read a strip now and then. I do not consider this a flaw in a comic, as some of the best work I've seen in regular comics improves with every read.
I like the continuous experimentation going on here, and the creativity. Unfortunately, so much is generated that it becomes difficult for the creators to give each work the attention and long series many of the creations deserve. Keep them coming, though. And don't forget the paperbacks eventually.
Just a note: you're welcome to have any opinion about the comic you want. As soon as you start being abusive, rude or throwing personal attacks at the creators or anyone else on these forums, you'll be kicked the fuck out.
The cons: The writing. For me, this is a very common complaint with Penny Arcade with their drama stories. The strip was way too slow. Seriously, the first strip was Grace being hugged by her parents? That's not how you start off a story. You need to start it off with some action. Jerry writes these stories like he just assumes everyone is going to read them.
Nae disrespect at all, man, but I completely disagree.
The first thing that jumps out at me is the idea that writing has to start with an action sequence. While it's absolutely a valid approach, I think it's kind of a truncated view for that to be the only way to start a story. For action to truly get the plums pumping, we have to invest ourselves in and care about the characters. With the climax being at the end, starting with an action sequence would mean chopping out a lot of the character. Especially going by Gabe's comments, this is a more introspective series, so I think a slower boil works for it, in my opinion. Even then, I think it only felt like a slow boil because of the format: in reality it's only 10 panels (not even 2 pages in most comics) before we get to the beginning of what I'd consider the action.
The writing is necessarily quite terse in these more dramatic strips. The comic has to show, not tell, because space is so limited. I think Tycho's greatest strength as a writer is his expressive writing: he can communicate a lot using very few words. It's a perfect fit for a comic, and it synergises perfectly with Gabe's equally expressive art. There simply isn't room with around 20 panels to explain everything: it has to be explained as the story is happening. What this means is that the world-building is inherent to the story: we're never told "the spiders are big monsters," but with the weight they're being given in the writing, we can tell they're not actual spiders. When one appears in the fourth comic, then, it kind of clicks into place without any of the characters having to spout exposition in an unnatural way.
None of that's to say the strip was flawless, but I really really enjoyed it. I think my biggest problem is the third comic. Cancer is a very evocative disease, if that makes any sense, and the imagery of chemotherapy was juxtaposed perfectly with Grace's massive head of hair. It's immaculate storytelling. But I think its placement is a bit weird - it means that we go, in order: flashback, present day, flashback, present day. With the story struggling to claw some momentum as it was, I thought it kind of superfluous. We could infer that something had happened to her maw by virtue of the fact that her dad was grieving, she was older, and her maw wasn't there. Furthermore, as you've said, we can't really be moved, having only spent a few panels with these characters.
I think that page could have been saved for last: we'd have a better idea of Grace by then, and why her mother was so important.
Hope none of that comes off as too dickish, man. Either way, smashing comic, I really liked it.
Just a note: you're welcome to have any opinion about the comic you want. As soon as you start being abusive, rude or throwing personal attacks at the creators or anyone else on these forums, you'll be kicked the fuck out.
I don't want to sound out of place but this sounds like an abuse of power right here.
I completely understand the part about being abusive towards other people or the creators, but I think people are also entitled to their opinions of the writing or art style of the creators. I don't see any personal attacks really. Just some people stating their opinions. To me it seems like some of the comments "defending" the strip are "pitchforks" in disguise.
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I promise. Haha.
Oh wow, I'm really sorry. I thought you were the original poster of the opinion and were correcting a view on it, not offering your own interpretation of it... I would have been a little less sarcastic had I realized you weren't. I still think the storyline, taken as a whole, actually segmented out pretty well (given that I still think it's the kind of thing that's impossible to really do well in this short of a space), but I get what you're saying.
I don't think Jerry is on the same level as Mike. He never wrote anything, except newsposts, whereas Mike has been drawing his whole life. Now Mike is ready for the big time, and Jerry just isn't.
Just a note: you're welcome to have any opinion about the comic you want. As soon as you start being abusive, rude or throwing personal attacks at the creators or anyone else on these forums, you'll be kicked the fuck out.
I don't want to sound out of place but this sounds like an abuse of power right here.
I completely understand the part about being abusive towards other people or the creators, but I think people are also entitled to their opinions of the writing or art style of the creators. I don't see any personal attacks really. Just some people stating their opinions. To me it seems like some of the comments "defending" the strip are "pitchforks" in disguise.
tube's comment is addressed to everyone, even people pro-Nightlight.
not sure how it's an abuse of power when he said "you're welcome to have any opinion about the comic you want", which is what you said: " I think people are also entitled to their opinions of the writing or art style of the creators." all that's being said is that people should be civil about giving their opinions, and not being rude like:
this is seriously fucking stupid. i don't even know why i come to this site anymore. you guys used to be good. now the art style is all shitty, the normal strips aren't funny anymore, and then there is absolutely useless shit like this that no one cares about. what the fuck happened, guys? did you just at one point decide to say "fuck it" and stop trying?
there are plenty of people who gave their opinion of "Nightlight didn't do it for me, and here's why:" or "I didn't like Nightlight as much as your regular strips" or "I didn't really understand anything and I wish you guys had laid it out more clearly" just fine, yourself included! That's fine. Great, even.
It's when people act like this entire run of 2 weeks in a year of webcomics (something PA does maybe twice a year, if even) was an incredible affront to them personally, and they feel betrayed by Mike and Jerry that they had the audacity to even try this, is when it gets into silly goose territory.
Like a lot of these long-form, alternate universe PA runs, the ideas are interesting and the art is intriguing, but the story-telling is a big muddle. I think there's some attempt here to be subtle about what's going on, but that rarely plays well for something that is generally presented as three panels, three times a week.
Until I read Gabe's explanation, I was a bit at sea as to what was actually happening. Seriously, three time jumps over the course of six strips? That's just nuts.
What's the indication that we're flashing back and forth in time? How am I supposed to know that that's a very young Grace in that first strip? How am I supposed to know that the Mom is dead in the second or fourth strip? There isn't enough information to infer any of this.
Love the art but I am suspecting we aren't going to get much else offered up for explanations, much like all the side stories that they have done.
It doesn't need any extra explanation. Read the words. Look at the pictures. It's all there.
no need for snark man, I love the side projects and I get the jist of what is going on (Since the father can no longer protect it is up to the daughter) but there is a bunch of questions that come up that. I get that leaving some up for interpretation can be good but after awhile and after other side projects that leave a bunch of unanswered one gets a bit tired of it. Just read Mikes post and that clears a lot up but at the same point if he hadn't made that post I wouldn't have picked up on more than a few of them.
Just wanted to say thank you for giving us Grace. It means a lot to know that you're willing to share these stories. Please don't let immature comments like "Can we get back to the dick and fart jokes now" keep you from sharing this stuff with us.
Until I read Gabe's explanation, I was a bit at sea as to what was actually happening. Seriously, three time jumps over the course of six strips? That's just nuts.
What's the indication that we're flashing back and forth in time? How am I supposed to know that that's a very young Grace in that first strip? How am I supposed to know that the Mom is dead in the second or fourth strip? There isn't enough information to infer any of this.
I know this is just me nitpicking about semantics, but technically speaking there was only one time jump, from the 1st to the 2nd strip - the 3rd strip is a flashback to an event that happened between the 1st and the 2nd strips. But nitpicking aside, while I do believe presenting the story in chronological order (1st strip, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th) might make it easier no understand - not necessarily better, just more parseable - there's no lack of clues about the timeframe for each strip.
In the first strip Grace is short and plump, has no glasses and is missing the two front teeth - that's how you know she's very young; I'd say she's about six then.
In the second strip, she is taller and long boned, has glasses, and even a hint of breasts - probably about twelve. When I first read it I figured that some time had passed (during wich the family acquired Clancy) and that something bad had happened, probably to the mom, since she's not present and the father is a mess crying over her portrait.
Then in the third strip we have a flashback - Grace is shorter again, though not as short as in the first strip, and already has glasses. And she's wearing the same old bicolor shirt, but now it has a pink breast cancer awareness ribbon, and mom is bald, probably from chemo. So: cancer. That's what happened to mom, that's why she's not in strip 2. Let me look back, is she just sick then or is she already dead? Yep - they are all wearing funeral-appropriate clothes, and Grace is wearing mom's crucifix. Mom has JUST died.
And finally in the three last strips Grace looks like in the 2nd and is wearing the same clothes, so the story is picking up from there. So yeah, I think there was enouh information to follow the story chronologically.
Not to say it was all clear cut - there were plenty of things that I didn't get until I read Gabe's post (and some I still don't). For example, reading the flashback strip it's pretty clear that in this house mom was the Nightlight - but only after it was spelled out in his post I understood the first strip was meant to show why: because dad can't even kill a spider, much less a "spider" (but Grace can). That strip, that on it's own felt a little "loose" ("parents love child", as someone commented), is actually foreshadowing. Ok.
Also, when I read the 4th strip I actually wondered if the flashback was for our benefit, or if it meant it was Grace that had just flashed back to what her mom said because of the something that she saw on the other side of that door. From what Gabe said the second option is probably true, for it's then that she "realizes what her mother was talking about". It's the first time she's even seen one of these monsters about which mom had never actually told her anything.
But when I thought about it I quickly dismissed this possibility, mainly because her first reaction was not "WTF?! Clancy, call 911 RIGHT NOW! Also, WTF?!", but also because of how she then went straight to the trophy and used it in a very matter-of-fact way. She didn't seem that scared, she in fact looked kinda defiant. I figured she'd been doing it during all the time mom was in the hospital. But maybe not, and that's exactly why she's a Nightlight - because she's the type of person that can keep a level head and do what must be done when suddenly faced with a nightmare monster.
...Which now that I think about it... Every time some accident or something happens to our kids my wife freaks out and cries and runs around and ends up scaring them even more than they already were... And afterwards I'm always telling her that we, as the adults, and as parents, must always try to keep level heads, and no matter how bad the situation we need to think rationally and do what must be done to fix things while keeping the kids calm... So... Um...
Maybe she ISN'T facing the monsters every night mom is in the hospital. But since her father appears to be having a hard time handling it, maybe she's been PARENTING her brother all this time. And when the monster shows up and she can finally see it, it's only the latest challenge to be faced, and she's ready to face it.
Yeah, ok, I guess I really like this story and I'm going to read it again now.
Wow thread is thick with very transparent trolls. Somewhere in 4chan or some other cesspool of humanity a group of people decided that they should destroy something beautiful today and they caught a whiff of it in Grace's tale, or something?
Most hilarious are the ones criticising Jerry's writing when their own writing betrays that they haven't written in their whole lives more words than Jerry writes in this website alone in one year. They couldn't know good writing if they received a full blast of it to the face.
Love the art but I am suspecting we aren't going to get much else offered up for explanations, much like all the side stories that they have done.
It doesn't need any extra explanation. Read the words. Look at the pictures. It's all there.
no need for snark man, I love the side projects and I get the jist of what is going on (Since the father can no longer protect it is up to the daughter) but there is a bunch of questions that come up that. I get that leaving some up for interpretation can be good but after awhile and after other side projects that leave a bunch of unanswered one gets a bit tired of it. Just read Mikes post and that clears a lot up but at the same point if he hadn't made that post I wouldn't have picked up on more than a few of them.
That... wasn't snark, it was a statement. And IMO, he's right.
Dammit Gabe your news post about Noah fighting for you made me cry. Dammit. WTF. Thanks, and tell your Dad and Noah thanks too. Sometimes the obvious is *right there* and you still don't see it until someone points it out.
I'm a long time reader and once-in-a-blue-moon lurker on the forums.
I just want to say that I appreciate it that you continue to take risks and grow. Thanks for all the great work, and thanks in particular for Nightlight. It really got me in the feels.
I liked it, and I got it, but it was hard to follow. I've gotten used to having to go back and forth to understand what Jerry and Mike are up to. One particular difficulty with this one is that almost every strip jumps around in time and our biggest clue is the appearance of the characters, who we readers haven't looked at in two days and we only saw once or twice. I don't think it's a good use of the format if we have to re-read the whole thing every time to understand each installment.
@BrunoTR Perhaps the nightmare monsters never quite looked like nightmare monsters to her. Her dad had once stated that a spider was blocking the way to his studio and he needed Grace. That's a notable phobia of spiders, and I would imagine for someone with a debilitating fear (debilitating in this case because he cannot perform a function due to it's presence), a spider would be a nightmare monster. But, to everyone else, it's a spider. But, the potential for something worse is THERE.
Perhaps, now having to carry out the nighttime ritual of putting her younger brother to bed, however, it's time to deal with all the potential bad things there. Fears of the dark, things under the bed, in the closet, augmented with the loss of both parents (Death of mom, dad's present distance due to grief), etc.. whatever baby brother might be scared of... makes for a powerful and potent monster indeed. Now that she has to perform the role of seeing him safely off to sleep, she can now perceive the monster for what it is.
Absolutely loved this side story. I don't think I've had this deep a resonance since the Hanna arc. Personally I like the soft touch to the story that lets the reader infer for themselves the circumstances and nuances. Honestly these free form world builds that develop so organically are a huge part of why I enjoy PA.
I loved the story and each individual strip more and more. Going back and rereading them with time to think about them and the additional explanations of possible interpretations, not just from Gabe and Tycho, but others here on the forum, really just enriches them over again.
As far as my personal opinion, while I did understand the time hops, due to Grace's age and the son being introduced, I understand where people could have been confused. But as with most of their work, it is apparent this was a very collaborative piece from start to finish. Listening to their podcasts on the subject just solidifies that. Also, to put down Tycho's writing or Gabe's art would be just as much an affront to the other. They are Gabe & Tycho on these PA pieces, you get'em both for the price of none! If you didn't understand the first time through and need additional explanation, that's not the worst thing in the world. If you're telling me the quality of any written or drawn piece is based on immediate comprehension at face value, well then... "read a book" as they say.
Posts
I agree wholeheartedly.
Yeah, and while we're at it, why couldn't Palahnuik have just told us what was up with Tyler Durden in that first chapter? Did he really think I was going to read like, the whole story to figure it out? I've got places to be!
I'm sorry to be sarcastic but you're being a little ridiculous as regards to writing skill as opposed to medium. Pace issues are a thing, and I would agree with the idea that Jerry is also not suited to releasing a long story in tiny chunks like this instead of all at once, because he's someone who both layers a story and works a lot in implication instead of explicit language. But that's a problem that can go away once we've seen the entire work laid out.
So yeah, when we read the first comic we had no idea what was going on. Now that it's the end and we've seen the story play out, the beginning is the necessary foundation for the rest of story. And the foundation is a pretty important part!
Well, it's obvious that Jerry is holding Mike back. He's a terrible writer with basically no real experience, so how could them going their separate ways not be anything but beneficial to all? How, I ask you?
best regards,
Ilze
Does that mean that I don't need bridging in my story and will make up my own links?
Do I see the author's vision through some supernatural sense?
edit: I still enjoyed meeting Gabe and Tycho in 2006 more than I did meeting Martin Sheen and the entire cast of the West Wing.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I promise. Haha.
I just feel like Mike was just trying to pull two parts of the guys comment together to make him seem like an idiot. And by making him sound like he didn't know what he was talking about with that line then maybe people would think he didn't know what he was talking about with the rest of his comment. I just think people are too quick to jump and defend people instead of looking at both sides of the argument.
I completely agree on the idea that you need to have the whole story before you can make your call on the story.
I agree in the fact that part 1 (by itself) was slow (The parents love Grace). But when you look at the whole story, the whole thing with the mother dying happened too quickly. That's how I took it. He might have meant it differently.
I don't think Jerry is holding Mike back at all. If you've seen the PATV series you really get the sense of how well they work together and bounce ideas off each other.
In this case though, I think Mike should have done it by himself. He one line pitch for the story felt like something pixar would have came up with at the dinner where they created the majority of the early movies they released (up to Wall-E I believe). I feel like Jerry in this case was trying to create something that was a little deeper than what the majority of people wanted in the Nightlight story. Everyone's imaginations went crazy and in their own directions after they read just the one line from Mike. When the story didn't match up they got a little disappointed that it didn't turn out how they pictured it.
A little off topic, but have you ever read or heard of the manga series Bakuman? It's very similar to the situation you and Jerry are in.
I really don't think that we're supposed to be all that invested about the mom dying because we don't know the mom. What we're supposed to take from it is that Grace is being forced to take on a responsibility far sooner than she otherwise would, and that she might not be ready. Which sucks for her. And that cancer sucks. Fuck cancer.
It's a Spiderman setup. We're not supposed to be very invested in Uncle Ben. His death is mostly just a mechanic that sets Spiderman on his path to becoming a hero. So too with Grace's mom. And Mike and Jerry know that. We have one-ish panels (I'm counting the dad-Grace-mom Oreo hug as the 'ish') of Grace's mom before she's dead. That's done purposely. If the mom were important beyond passing the torch, she would've had more time on screen before the axe fell in order to maximize the emotional impact.
I like the continuous experimentation going on here, and the creativity. Unfortunately, so much is generated that it becomes difficult for the creators to give each work the attention and long series many of the creations deserve. Keep them coming, though. And don't forget the paperbacks eventually.
Nae disrespect at all, man, but I completely disagree.
The first thing that jumps out at me is the idea that writing has to start with an action sequence. While it's absolutely a valid approach, I think it's kind of a truncated view for that to be the only way to start a story. For action to truly get the plums pumping, we have to invest ourselves in and care about the characters. With the climax being at the end, starting with an action sequence would mean chopping out a lot of the character. Especially going by Gabe's comments, this is a more introspective series, so I think a slower boil works for it, in my opinion. Even then, I think it only felt like a slow boil because of the format: in reality it's only 10 panels (not even 2 pages in most comics) before we get to the beginning of what I'd consider the action.
The writing is necessarily quite terse in these more dramatic strips. The comic has to show, not tell, because space is so limited. I think Tycho's greatest strength as a writer is his expressive writing: he can communicate a lot using very few words. It's a perfect fit for a comic, and it synergises perfectly with Gabe's equally expressive art. There simply isn't room with around 20 panels to explain everything: it has to be explained as the story is happening. What this means is that the world-building is inherent to the story: we're never told "the spiders are big monsters," but with the weight they're being given in the writing, we can tell they're not actual spiders. When one appears in the fourth comic, then, it kind of clicks into place without any of the characters having to spout exposition in an unnatural way.
None of that's to say the strip was flawless, but I really really enjoyed it. I think my biggest problem is the third comic. Cancer is a very evocative disease, if that makes any sense, and the imagery of chemotherapy was juxtaposed perfectly with Grace's massive head of hair. It's immaculate storytelling. But I think its placement is a bit weird - it means that we go, in order: flashback, present day, flashback, present day. With the story struggling to claw some momentum as it was, I thought it kind of superfluous. We could infer that something had happened to her maw by virtue of the fact that her dad was grieving, she was older, and her maw wasn't there. Furthermore, as you've said, we can't really be moved, having only spent a few panels with these characters.
I think that page could have been saved for last: we'd have a better idea of Grace by then, and why her mother was so important.
Hope none of that comes off as too dickish, man. Either way, smashing comic, I really liked it.
I don't want to sound out of place but this sounds like an abuse of power right here.
I completely understand the part about being abusive towards other people or the creators, but I think people are also entitled to their opinions of the writing or art style of the creators. I don't see any personal attacks really. Just some people stating their opinions. To me it seems like some of the comments "defending" the strip are "pitchforks" in disguise.
Oh wow, I'm really sorry. I thought you were the original poster of the opinion and were correcting a view on it, not offering your own interpretation of it... I would have been a little less sarcastic had I realized you weren't. I still think the storyline, taken as a whole, actually segmented out pretty well (given that I still think it's the kind of thing that's impossible to really do well in this short of a space), but I get what you're saying.
Imma let you finish but Jerry created one of the best creative nonfiction pieces of all time.
Ah, gotcha, kinda like a kid saying in English "S'not your house."
Well, I say kid, but I tend to speak like that myself...
Just fantastic.
tube's comment is addressed to everyone, even people pro-Nightlight.
not sure how it's an abuse of power when he said "you're welcome to have any opinion about the comic you want", which is what you said: " I think people are also entitled to their opinions of the writing or art style of the creators." all that's being said is that people should be civil about giving their opinions, and not being rude like:
or even
there are plenty of people who gave their opinion of "Nightlight didn't do it for me, and here's why:" or "I didn't like Nightlight as much as your regular strips" or "I didn't really understand anything and I wish you guys had laid it out more clearly" just fine, yourself included! That's fine. Great, even.
It's when people act like this entire run of 2 weeks in a year of webcomics (something PA does maybe twice a year, if even) was an incredible affront to them personally, and they feel betrayed by Mike and Jerry that they had the audacity to even try this, is when it gets into silly goose territory.
Until I read Gabe's explanation, I was a bit at sea as to what was actually happening. Seriously, three time jumps over the course of six strips? That's just nuts.
What's the indication that we're flashing back and forth in time? How am I supposed to know that that's a very young Grace in that first strip? How am I supposed to know that the Mom is dead in the second or fourth strip? There isn't enough information to infer any of this.
no need for snark man, I love the side projects and I get the jist of what is going on (Since the father can no longer protect it is up to the daughter) but there is a bunch of questions that come up that. I get that leaving some up for interpretation can be good but after awhile and after other side projects that leave a bunch of unanswered one gets a bit tired of it. Just read Mikes post and that clears a lot up but at the same point if he hadn't made that post I wouldn't have picked up on more than a few of them.
I know this is just me nitpicking about semantics, but technically speaking there was only one time jump, from the 1st to the 2nd strip - the 3rd strip is a flashback to an event that happened between the 1st and the 2nd strips. But nitpicking aside, while I do believe presenting the story in chronological order (1st strip, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th) might make it easier no understand - not necessarily better, just more parseable - there's no lack of clues about the timeframe for each strip.
In the first strip Grace is short and plump, has no glasses and is missing the two front teeth - that's how you know she's very young; I'd say she's about six then.
In the second strip, she is taller and long boned, has glasses, and even a hint of breasts - probably about twelve. When I first read it I figured that some time had passed (during wich the family acquired Clancy) and that something bad had happened, probably to the mom, since she's not present and the father is a mess crying over her portrait.
Then in the third strip we have a flashback - Grace is shorter again, though not as short as in the first strip, and already has glasses. And she's wearing the same old bicolor shirt, but now it has a pink breast cancer awareness ribbon, and mom is bald, probably from chemo. So: cancer. That's what happened to mom, that's why she's not in strip 2. Let me look back, is she just sick then or is she already dead? Yep - they are all wearing funeral-appropriate clothes, and Grace is wearing mom's crucifix. Mom has JUST died.
And finally in the three last strips Grace looks like in the 2nd and is wearing the same clothes, so the story is picking up from there. So yeah, I think there was enouh information to follow the story chronologically.
Not to say it was all clear cut - there were plenty of things that I didn't get until I read Gabe's post (and some I still don't). For example, reading the flashback strip it's pretty clear that in this house mom was the Nightlight - but only after it was spelled out in his post I understood the first strip was meant to show why: because dad can't even kill a spider, much less a "spider" (but Grace can). That strip, that on it's own felt a little "loose" ("parents love child", as someone commented), is actually foreshadowing. Ok.
Also, when I read the 4th strip I actually wondered if the flashback was for our benefit, or if it meant it was Grace that had just flashed back to what her mom said because of the something that she saw on the other side of that door. From what Gabe said the second option is probably true, for it's then that she "realizes what her mother was talking about". It's the first time she's even seen one of these monsters about which mom had never actually told her anything.
But when I thought about it I quickly dismissed this possibility, mainly because her first reaction was not "WTF?! Clancy, call 911 RIGHT NOW! Also, WTF?!", but also because of how she then went straight to the trophy and used it in a very matter-of-fact way. She didn't seem that scared, she in fact looked kinda defiant. I figured she'd been doing it during all the time mom was in the hospital. But maybe not, and that's exactly why she's a Nightlight - because she's the type of person that can keep a level head and do what must be done when suddenly faced with a nightmare monster.
...Which now that I think about it... Every time some accident or something happens to our kids my wife freaks out and cries and runs around and ends up scaring them even more than they already were... And afterwards I'm always telling her that we, as the adults, and as parents, must always try to keep level heads, and no matter how bad the situation we need to think rationally and do what must be done to fix things while keeping the kids calm... So... Um...
Maybe she ISN'T facing the monsters every night mom is in the hospital. But since her father appears to be having a hard time handling it, maybe she's been PARENTING her brother all this time. And when the monster shows up and she can finally see it, it's only the latest challenge to be faced, and she's ready to face it.
Yeah, ok, I guess I really like this story and I'm going to read it again now.
Most hilarious are the ones criticising Jerry's writing when their own writing betrays that they haven't written in their whole lives more words than Jerry writes in this website alone in one year. They couldn't know good writing if they received a full blast of it to the face.
That... wasn't snark, it was a statement. And IMO, he's right.
Most of the vibes in this thread are good, but the handful of grumpypants inspired me to make this thing:
I just want to say that I appreciate it that you continue to take risks and grow. Thanks for all the great work, and thanks in particular for Nightlight. It really got me in the feels.
Awesome set otherwise.
Perhaps, now having to carry out the nighttime ritual of putting her younger brother to bed, however, it's time to deal with all the potential bad things there. Fears of the dark, things under the bed, in the closet, augmented with the loss of both parents (Death of mom, dad's present distance due to grief), etc.. whatever baby brother might be scared of... makes for a powerful and potent monster indeed. Now that she has to perform the role of seeing him safely off to sleep, she can now perceive the monster for what it is.
As far as my personal opinion, while I did understand the time hops, due to Grace's age and the son being introduced, I understand where people could have been confused. But as with most of their work, it is apparent this was a very collaborative piece from start to finish. Listening to their podcasts on the subject just solidifies that. Also, to put down Tycho's writing or Gabe's art would be just as much an affront to the other. They are Gabe & Tycho on these PA pieces, you get'em both for the price of none! If you didn't understand the first time through and need additional explanation, that's not the worst thing in the world. If you're telling me the quality of any written or drawn piece is based on immediate comprehension at face value, well then... "read a book" as they say.