Like, I get a lot of people think she's bad, but in a way it's still inspiring.
Like when I go to indie comic conventions, i intentionally buy comics where the art and writing are terrible. Not to make fun of it, but because it's inspiring. These people have the bravery to put it out and ask for money for it and they're proud of it. No doubt they'll also grow from it too, but for now they're like "Just Do It."
So then I go home, sit at the drawing board and go "What are you waiting for?" And draw and reflect.
Then maybe I'll play some Gwen Stefani and fall down a No Doubt hole for hours.
Also my dad sometimes starts his emails to me as "<name>," which feels weirdly impersonal.
This is related to little except us emailing right now.
My father has rarely called me anything but "<name>".
Right, he could just write my name instead of using the angle bracketed variable though
(Ok but seriously, it's just sort of weird - most people use "hi" and my mom uses some variation of "hey lovely," so it's weird that my father is so formal. But I guess that's just him.)
Oh, yeah my father says "hi" and stuff.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
(of course thread ends just as i finish typing this up)
Identifying a trope is the absolute bottom of the barrel in discussion of any work but on the internet it is still wildly common in part because it's so easy and has the gloss of faux-objectivity that internet pedants crave. You can say with authority whether a story has a Chosen One or not in it, or whatever. You can also say with authority whether a movie has a red car in it. It's about as useful.
i can't say i exactly agree
there are plenty of useful things you can talk about with tropes; for example, that someone is tired of seeing fantasy movies with a Chosen One Farmboy with Noble Intents, following a Prophecy about Saving the World, played straight. they can say that it was so obvious that the Dragon would actually become Dragon-in-Chief that the scenes with the supposed BBEG were actually fairly boring because they lacked suspense.
now i could, but will not for the sake of my time and your sanity, translate the first few paragraphs of that into tvtropes jargon. and i should also point out that as well as the fact that many of those sentences are about identifying tropes, Ebert himself uses one specifically: Meet Cute!
and this is not the only review like this, oh no. not by ebert, nor by critics as a whole. so either we've got a problem, which is that the field of criticism is about as useful as the red car analogy, given how often it's using tropes... or this is misplaced snobbery
and i get the snobbery. tvtropes is a pop site aimed very clearly (and probably written by) young adults. it can often result in people coming into discussions and trying to put on airs by throwing out the trope names as if they're well-read (well-viewed?) in movie criticism, and all they need to do is recognise the tropes to have understood the movie. and tvtropes as a site also goes about its cataloguing with a fervour for hunting out minutiae that few care about.
and they watch bad anime
but the problem isn't with tropes themselves, or identifying them, but rather with not then going on to use those identifications to draw a conclusion about the movie or book or whatever, and what it's trying to say. because so many films do fall into common tropes and it's impossible not to discuss the movie without pointing that out, because in many cases the question is "what does this movie do to distinguish itself from the archetypal movie of its genre, when it has so much in common?"
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Also my dad sometimes starts his emails to me as "<name>," which feels weirdly impersonal.
This is related to little except us emailing right now.
Would "<title>" be better?
"Daughter,"
"Scientist,"
"Offspring,"
Dearest daughter,
I write you today with a heavy heart. I have consulted with representatives of the esteemed AT&T corporation (formerly, as you know, the American Telephone and Telegraph Company), and it appears that the state of our contract does not allow for your subsidized purchase of a new handheld cellular telephone; you must, therefore, acquire one by some other means. Perhaps an acquaintance, recently having purchased a newer machine, could be persuaded to lend you their older (though serviceable!) device? Please let me know if one comes into your possession: I may need to speak with another company representative in order to include it under our contract.
Your loving father,
<name>
+4
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Like if he's going to be sort of strangely formal, that's the least I could ask
+1
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Identifying a trope is the absolute bottom of the barrel in discussion of any work but on the internet it is still wildly common in part because it's so easy and has the gloss of faux-objectivity that internet pedants crave. You can say with authority whether a story has a Chosen One or not in it, or whatever. You can also say with authority whether a movie has a red car in it. It's about as useful.
i can't say i exactly agree
there are plenty of useful things you can talk about with tropes; for example, that someone is tired of seeing fantasy movies with a Chosen One Farmboy with Noble Intents, following a Prophecy about Saving the World, played straight. they can say that it was so obvious that the Dragon would actually become Dragon-in-Chief that the scenes with the supposed BBEG were actually fairly boring because they lacked suspense.
now i could, but will not for the sake of my time and your sanity, translate the first few paragraphs of that into tvtropes jargon. and i should also point out that as well as the fact that many of those sentences are about identifying tropes, Ebert himself uses one specifically: Meet Cute!
and this is not the only review like this, oh no. not by ebert, nor by critics as a whole. so either we've got a problem, which is that the field of criticism is about as useful as the red car analogy, given how often it's using tropes... or this is misplaced snobbery
and i get the snobbery. tvtropes is a pop site aimed very clearly (and probably written by) young adults. it can often result in people coming into discussions and trying to put on airs by throwing out the trope names as if they're well-read (well-viewed?) in movie criticism, and all they need to do is recognise the tropes to have understood the movie. and tvtropes as a site also goes about its cataloguing with a fervour for hunting out minutiae that few care about.
and they watch bad anime
but the problem isn't with tropes themselves, or identifying them, but rather with not then going on to use those identifications to draw a conclusion about the movie or book or whatever, and what it's trying to say. because so many films do fall into common tropes and it's impossible not to discuss the movie without pointing that out, because in many cases the question is "what does this movie do to distinguish itself from the archetypal movie of its genre, when it has so much in common?"
It's a pointless and vapid form of analysis by reduction for the average person engaging with media. But Jacob, you have never sufficiently explained your hatred of tropes. Whenever it comes up you say its lazy and then its kind of left at that.
Like, I get a lot of people think she's bad, but in a way it's still inspiring.
Like when I go to indie comic conventions, i intentionally buy comics where the art and writing are terrible. Not to make fun of it, but because it's inspiring. These people have the bravery to put it out and ask for money for it and they're proud of it. No doubt they'll also grow from it too, but for now they're like "Just Do It."
So then I go home, sit at the drawing board and go "What are you waiting for?" And draw and reflect.
Then maybe I'll play some Gwen Stefani and fall down a No Doubt hole for hours.
I just make fun of it, though. But I haven't read Weeping Cock in a while.
Whenever my dad called me "dear daughter" he found something embarrassing.
"Well my dear daughter, I saw in my search history a lot of searches for gay porn. How did they get there, I wonder."
My dad is just sort of distant in his writing. It kind of worries me sometimes, even though it shouldn't - he's always written in an impersonal way. I kind of worry that he's drifting from the family since the divorce =/
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
I bet Stephenie Meyer and the millions of people who buy her books don't think she's a shitty writer
What does it matter if people enjoy shitty media? We're in a glorious age where there is more avenues than ever for people to release content! The popularity of something really doesn't matter much for books/music/art/anything with a relatively low cost barrier to entry.
I bet Stephenie Meyer and the millions of people who buy her books don't think she's a shitty writer
What does it matter if people enjoy shitty media? We're in a glorious age where there is more avenues than ever for people to release content! The popularity of something really doesn't matter much for books/music/art/anything with a relatively low cost barrier to entry.
I don't think it's too controversial to say that she is not technically brilliant and the way she writes is generally grating and uninteresting.
But I also agree with the latter - I'm not sure "technically not very good" is the measure by which we should consider something "good" or not. If people liked it then I kind of don't care, with the caveat that it also expresses some views that I worry may damage the precious youth, but whatever it's not like that isn't everywhere.
To bad Meyer isn't instead sick of the criticism that she is a lousy hack writer.
we should all send her our fanfiction
By Snowqueens Icedragon
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
One morning Corporal Cathala, of our company, out in the open on such a mission, was hit by a bullet which wounded him gravely in the thigh, leading to a subsequent amputation. He dragged himself back to the trench, where they staunched his wound. He was lying on ground soaked in his own blood. All of a sudden, here was General Niessel, whom we saw often in the trenches at daybreak—when all was calm.
“Ah!,” said the general, “Where was this corporal wounded?”
We couldn’t tell him that he had been pilfering the pockets of dead men. So we said it was at an observation post.
“Find me the captain! Are you satisfied with this soldier’s conduct?” he asked our Captain Cros-Mayrevielle, who had quickly appeared on the scene.
“Yes, very satisfied,” stammered our captain.
“Very well. He will be commended, and will get the Croix de Guerre and the Médaille Militaire.”
I bet Stephenie Meyer and the millions of people who buy her books don't think she's a shitty writer
What does it matter if people enjoy shitty media? We're in a glorious age where there is more avenues than ever for people to release content! The popularity of something really doesn't matter much for books/music/art/anything with a relatively low cost barrier to entry.
I don't think it's too controversial to say that she is not technically brilliant and the way she writes is generally grating and uninteresting.
But I also agree with the latter - I'm not sure "technically not very good" is the measure by which we should consider something "good" or not. If people liked it then I kind of don't care, with the caveat that it also expresses some views that I worry may damage the precious youth, but whatever it's not like that isn't everywhere.
We don't get to pick what becomes a cultural touchstone. It happens.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Whenever my dad called me "dear daughter" he found something embarrassing.
"Well my dear daughter, I saw in my search history a lot of searches for gay porn. How did they get there, I wonder."
My dad is just sort of distant in his writing. It kind of worries me sometimes, even though it shouldn't - he's always written in an impersonal way. I kind of worry that he's drifting from the family since the divorce =/
I bet Stephenie Meyer and the millions of people who buy her books don't think she's a shitty writer
What does it matter if people enjoy shitty media? We're in a glorious age where there is more avenues than ever for people to release content! The popularity of something really doesn't matter much for books/music/art/anything with a relatively low cost barrier to entry.
I don't think it's too controversial to say that she is not technically brilliant and the way she writes is generally grating and uninteresting.
But I also agree with the latter - I'm not sure "technically not very good" is the measure by which we should consider something "good" or not. If people liked it then I kind of don't care, with the caveat that it also expresses some views that I worry may damage the precious youth, but whatever it's not like that isn't everywhere.
We don't get to pick what becomes a cultural touchstone. It happens.
Not until I overthrow the President of Culture and install myself as Cultural Dictator For Life, no.
That Once Upon a Time show is pretty good. I'm on Season 4, hurray Netflix. Not quality all the way through but some characters are just fantastic. Every time
Mr. Gold/Rumplestiltskin
is on screen I'm happy because that guy is a fantastic actor.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
(I'm not entirely sure if we're disagreeing, Fuzzy? If we are, could you maybe rephrase? I am very much "whatever happens happens," philosophically, but I still will comment on what I wish happened.)
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I bet Stephenie Meyer and the millions of people who buy her books don't think she's a shitty writer
What does it matter if people enjoy shitty media? We're in a glorious age where there is more avenues than ever for people to release content! The popularity of something really doesn't matter much for books/music/art/anything with a relatively low cost barrier to entry.
I think my only thing with this is that a lot of people like to defend it by saying, "Hey, at least they're reading!" or suggesting it will be a gateway drug to better, more informative and sophisticated ideas and interest, and it just doesn't.
I think it was Jeffe that put it well once, that reading books like Twilight only leads to people reading more books like Twilight.
Posts
I mean.
She makes millions of dollars per book.
If you could get that much by rewriting the same shitty book you've already written but with a gender swap, could you resist?
You don't have to read it!
Like when I go to indie comic conventions, i intentionally buy comics where the art and writing are terrible. Not to make fun of it, but because it's inspiring. These people have the bravery to put it out and ask for money for it and they're proud of it. No doubt they'll also grow from it too, but for now they're like "Just Do It."
So then I go home, sit at the drawing board and go "What are you waiting for?" And draw and reflect.
Then maybe I'll play some Gwen Stefani and fall down a No Doubt hole for hours.
Oh, yeah my father says "hi" and stuff.
i can't say i exactly agree
there are plenty of useful things you can talk about with tropes; for example, that someone is tired of seeing fantasy movies with a Chosen One Farmboy with Noble Intents, following a Prophecy about Saving the World, played straight. they can say that it was so obvious that the Dragon would actually become Dragon-in-Chief that the scenes with the supposed BBEG were actually fairly boring because they lacked suspense.
but if that still seems too out there, let's have a look at one of the last reviews Roger Ebert wrote: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-spectacular-now-2013
now i could, but will not for the sake of my time and your sanity, translate the first few paragraphs of that into tvtropes jargon. and i should also point out that as well as the fact that many of those sentences are about identifying tropes, Ebert himself uses one specifically: Meet Cute!
and this is not the only review like this, oh no. not by ebert, nor by critics as a whole. so either we've got a problem, which is that the field of criticism is about as useful as the red car analogy, given how often it's using tropes... or this is misplaced snobbery
and i get the snobbery. tvtropes is a pop site aimed very clearly (and probably written by) young adults. it can often result in people coming into discussions and trying to put on airs by throwing out the trope names as if they're well-read (well-viewed?) in movie criticism, and all they need to do is recognise the tropes to have understood the movie. and tvtropes as a site also goes about its cataloguing with a fervour for hunting out minutiae that few care about.
and they watch bad anime
but the problem isn't with tropes themselves, or identifying them, but rather with not then going on to use those identifications to draw a conclusion about the movie or book or whatever, and what it's trying to say. because so many films do fall into common tropes and it's impossible not to discuss the movie without pointing that out, because in many cases the question is "what does this movie do to distinguish itself from the archetypal movie of its genre, when it has so much in common?"
Dearest daughter,
I write you today with a heavy heart. I have consulted with representatives of the esteemed AT&T corporation (formerly, as you know, the American Telephone and Telegraph Company), and it appears that the state of our contract does not allow for your subsidized purchase of a new handheld cellular telephone; you must, therefore, acquire one by some other means. Perhaps an acquaintance, recently having purchased a newer machine, could be persuaded to lend you their older (though serviceable!) device? Please let me know if one comes into your possession: I may need to speak with another company representative in order to include it under our contract.
Your loving father,
<name>
So New Line is apparently going to do a 100 Bullets movie with Tom Hardy. Interesting.
want none unless you got buns hon
we should all send her our fanfiction
"Well my dear daughter, I saw in my search history a lot of searches for gay porn. How did they get there, I wonder."
I just make fun of it, though. But I haven't read Weeping Cock in a while.
Whelp
Time to see if I can rush infantry and artillery on to the field to see if I can push toward Japan's capital
Spain is luckily on the other side of the planet
My dad is just sort of distant in his writing. It kind of worries me sometimes, even though it shouldn't - he's always written in an impersonal way. I kind of worry that he's drifting from the family since the divorce =/
What does it matter if people enjoy shitty media? We're in a glorious age where there is more avenues than ever for people to release content! The popularity of something really doesn't matter much for books/music/art/anything with a relatively low cost barrier to entry.
Edit: Also luke-cold water.
I had dry honey nut cheerioes this morning
And I am like 75% stress
I don't think it's too controversial to say that she is not technically brilliant and the way she writes is generally grating and uninteresting.
But I also agree with the latter - I'm not sure "technically not very good" is the measure by which we should consider something "good" or not. If people liked it then I kind of don't care, with the caveat that it also expresses some views that I worry may damage the precious youth, but whatever it's not like that isn't everywhere.
I'm scurred.
By Snowqueens Icedragon
@Elldren
From Barthas's memoir.
pfft how hacky
*pulls out sword*
Aw. That's not great.
:bro:
She is going to fuck him so hard on their wedding night his body is going to be bruised.
...i will pay to see this movie.
Not until I overthrow the President of Culture and install myself as Cultural Dictator For Life, no.
I think my only thing with this is that a lot of people like to defend it by saying, "Hey, at least they're reading!" or suggesting it will be a gateway drug to better, more informative and sophisticated ideas and interest, and it just doesn't.
I think it was Jeffe that put it well once, that reading books like Twilight only leads to people reading more books like Twilight.
But hey, that's cool. Do your thing.
Familia per ientaculum