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Oceans Soon Too Acidic and Messed Up to Sustain Complex Ecosystems

1235

Posts

  • ElaroElaro Apologetic Registered User regular
    Moriveth wrote: »
    What if, like, we all just, stopped polluting

    What are you? European?

    Children's rights are human rights.
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Only when he's in the bathroom.

    When he needs to go he's a russian.

    Wait this isn't the Bad Joke Thread.

    I will see myself out.

    Uriel on
  • MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    That's pretty good, Uriel.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    Wait this isn't the Bad Joke Thread.

    well actually

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    But isn't the Final Fantasy that there is yet hope for us? For our path leads to oblivion, if you ask me. We will always strive for more, even if the apparent solution is to settle for less. The fulfillment of dreams is our maxim. In chasing our dreams, we find hope. However, dreams that aren't shared can only be selfish and shortsighted. Divided as we are, we are rudderless, and thus the current of our base natures sweeps us towards the abyss. To our imminent extinction.

    What if the only dream we can share in time is a living nightmare? What if that nightmare is our only salvation? The formative experience that will galvanize us as a whole, and deliver onto us our Golden Age?

    You cannot change fate now! Oppose me and I will destroy you also!

    All the dreams that might have been. All the happiness, and sorrow, you might have experienced. Gone forever!!! For you there will be no tomorrow!

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    So has the OP sterilized themself yet? Should probably lead by example and all that

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  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    So has the OP sterilized themself yet? Should probably lead by example and all that

    Anyone who actually suggests sterilizing the poor doesn't consider themselves part of that group.

    X22wmuF.jpg
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    Just get every ducks to start jerking off into the ocean to repopulate the fishes

    You can have this one for free Obama

  • PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »

    Wait this isn't the Bad Joke Thread.

    Yeah I thought it was

  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    This thread just sterilized my mind

  • Demi GourdDemi Gourd Registered User regular
    Can someone make a hurricane thread for this Patricia business? I'm not good at making threads and I would like a place to discuss the 'canes.

  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    So, in an attempt to make a serious contribution to the topic of this weirdass thread, here's my take on it.

    Population control would technically help the environment, but there are two huge marks against it as a strategy: 1) it is one of the most ethically dubious options, and 2) it's also one of the least effective.

    Why? Well, I'll let Pulitzer Prize-winning scientist Jared Diamond explain:
    Even if the human populations of the Third World did not exist, it would be impossible for the First World alone to maintain its present course, because it is not in a steady state but is depleting its own resources as well as those imported from the Third World. At present it is untenable politically for First World leaders to propose to their own citizens that they lower their living standards, as measured by lower resource consumption and waste production rates. What will happen when it finally dawns on all those people in the Third World that current First World standards are unreachable for them, and that the First World refuses to abandon those standards for itself? Life is full of agonizing choices based on trade-offs, but that's the cruelest trade-off that we shall have to resolve: encouraging and helping all people to achieve a higher standard of living, without thereby undermining that standard through overstressing global resources. (Collapse p. 496)

    So yeah

    Even if you genocided the entire Third World, it wouldn't be enough. Population control would do almost nothing to help.

    Instead, what we need to do is change our definition of what a First World lifestyle is like to be more accommodating to the limited resources the planet possesses.

    IKknkhU.gif
  • ElaroElaro Apologetic Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    This thread just sterilized my mind

    Great, you can have mind sex without consequences now!
    Stilts wrote: »
    So, in an attempt to make a serious contribution to the topic of this weirdass thread, here's my take on it.

    Population control would technically help the environment, but there are two huge marks against it as a strategy: 1) it is one of the most ethically dubious options, and 2) it's also one of the least effective.

    Why? Well, I'll let Pulitzer Prize-winning scientist Jared Diamond explain:
    Even if the human populations of the Third World did not exist, it would be impossible for the First World alone to maintain its present course, because it is not in a steady state but is depleting its own resources as well as those imported from the Third World. At present it is untenable politically for First World leaders to propose to their own citizens that they lower their living standards, as measured by lower resource consumption and waste production rates. What will happen when it finally dawns on all those people in the Third World that current First World standards are unreachable for them, and that the First World refuses to abandon those standards for itself? Life is full of agonizing choices based on trade-offs, but that's the cruelest trade-off that we shall have to resolve: encouraging and helping all people to achieve a higher standard of living, without thereby undermining that standard through overstressing global resources. (Collapse p. 496)

    So yeah

    Even if you genocided the entire Third World, it wouldn't be enough. Population control would do almost nothing to help.

    Instead, what we need to do is change our definition of what a First World lifestyle is like to be more accommodating to the limited resources the planet possesses.

    Yeah, we should kill the first world nations, that'll do the trick. :rotate:

    Joking.

    Elaro on
    Children's rights are human rights.
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Stilts wrote: »
    okay there JRPG villain

    Don't worry, I can take him

    I've trained my whole life for this

    Finally, Drawing max of every magic in FF8 will pay off

    Unfortunately, by training your whole life the FF8 way you have accidentally made him exponentially stronger.

    I spent most of my training facedown in the dirt unconscious while a classmate did all the actual work.

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    The Frog Fractions 2 viral marketing is really picking up

  • BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Stilts wrote: »
    So, in an attempt to make a serious contribution to the topic of this weirdass thread, here's my take on it.

    Population control would technically help the environment, but there are two huge marks against it as a strategy: 1) it is one of the most ethically dubious options, and 2) it's also one of the least effective.

    Why? Well, I'll let Pulitzer Prize-winning scientist Jared Diamond explain:
    Even if the human populations of the Third World did not exist, it would be impossible for the First World alone to maintain its present course, because it is not in a steady state but is depleting its own resources as well as those imported from the Third World. At present it is untenable politically for First World leaders to propose to their own citizens that they lower their living standards, as measured by lower resource consumption and waste production rates. What will happen when it finally dawns on all those people in the Third World that current First World standards are unreachable for them, and that the First World refuses to abandon those standards for itself? Life is full of agonizing choices based on trade-offs, but that's the cruelest trade-off that we shall have to resolve: encouraging and helping all people to achieve a higher standard of living, without thereby undermining that standard through overstressing global resources. (Collapse p. 496)

    So yeah

    Even if you genocided the entire Third World, it wouldn't be enough. Population control would do almost nothing to help.

    Instead, what we need to do is change our definition of what a First World lifestyle is like to be more accommodating to the limited resources the planet possesses.

    So you agree that ultimately, pretty much everyone, no matter who they are, where they are, and what their current standard of living is, does have to lower their standard of living, lest it will be an impossibility to sustain life on Earth, at the very least as we know it? That most likely even our own survival is in jeopardy? Regardless of if we manage to reverse global population trends or not?

    As you say, given current ethics and morals and the political limitations of democracy, as well as the prevalence and strength of capitalism (since it best caters to our base natures), it's practically impossible to lower the standards of living for anyone, even the most well off people. Practically nobody is willing to give up even an inch of their wealth. Most actually want to do better for themselves still.

    For example, we won't give up on personal automotive transportation, no matter how frivolous our use of it is. Most won't give up their car. Driving a Tesla is akin to saving the world. It isn't enough though. Not by a longshot. Given the current world population, the average consumption of goods and resources, and the average pollution footprint of each, a change like that isn't even close to being enough, even if we'd replace every single gas guzzler with a Tesla. Hell, our cattle farting up the atmosphere alone is already catastrophic on its own, and that doesn't make everyone reject meat, and become Hindu now, does it?

    Before it's too late - the only way to get people to give up on frivolous wealth like personal automotive transportation? Some sort of fascism. Personally, I believe that humanity might work best under some form of technofascism, especially once we can offload the burden of leadership to purpose built AI systems, that can analyze all collected metrics and devise the most efficient and sustainable plans, by which we all abide, because in the end, there's no arguing with facts. There'd even be room for some nod to democracy here, like having a popular vote to chose between several sensible options devised by our machine overlords.

    From a technofascistic point of view, putting our utmost effort into procreation, procreating as a species, instead as individuals, and engineering the best possible new generation, that makes a whole lot of sense. Our current way of procreation is extremely selfish, and absolutely based in our base natures, and is in total denial of what we have become. Unsustainable as a whole.

    BranniganSepp on
  • GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    Was OP's last line about Utopia edited in? Like, when I read it, with that line in, I assumed he was trying to start a thread about that series, and being very tongue in cheek.

    I feel like there's some miscommunication going on here.

    Or OP sympathizes with the antagonists of Utopia, in which case it's time to call the nice men with the straitjackets.

    This post was sponsored by Tom Cruise.
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited October 2015
    Yeah but then if you're not careful you become like the Bikura until the technocore perfects the technique, and then you're stuck as an immortal shell that furthers their agenda.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User, Moderator mod
    I came here expecting fun marine microbiology discussion.

    I am pretty disappointed, tbh

  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    We should be like that one race from Endless Space that created a ton of autonomous robots before they died out

    And then the robots achieve sentience and go out to explore the galaxy taking what remains of our spirit and culture with them

    That's the endgame as I see it

    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Yeah, no, I'm not an advocate of fascism in any form.

    So if you were hoping I'd somehow sympathize with your viewpoint, sorry.

    If, via democratic freedom, the First World continues its present course and does not lower its standards of living to a sustainable level, then I will accept that as the future that we choose and will have to figure out how to live with (and hopefully learn from the experience to build a more sustainable civilization).

    I mean, I'll definitely complain about it and yell, "SEE? I TOLD YOU FUCKERS THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" Much like I assume plenty of environmental scientists will in the next few decades. But I'm not going to violate my own ethics just because I think I know better than everyone else (even it were the case that I really did know better).

    EDIT: Basically, the freedom to choose is important. And the freedom to fuck up royally is part-and-parcel to it.

    Stilts on
    IKknkhU.gif
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    We are all sons of the patriots now

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  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    We are all sons of the patriots now

    We will live on through our memes.

    IKknkhU.gif
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Boy I sure do hope we don't go extinct before we can build a megastructure in orbit around the sun. That way distant civilizations can observe it from afar and come visit us, only to find Earth a hollowed-out ruin---a graveyard planet from whence only the echoes of meme ghosts can be heard whispering eternally into the infinite darkness of space.

  • BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Stilts wrote: »
    Yeah, no, I'm not an advocate of fascism in any form.

    So if you were hoping I'd somehow sympathize with your viewpoint, sorry.

    If, via democratic freedom, the First World continues its present course and does not lower its standards of living to a sustainable level, then I will accept that as the future that we choose and will have to figure out how to live with (and hopefully learn from the experience to build a more sustainable civilization).

    I mean, I'll definitely complain about it and yell, "SEE? I TOLD YOU FUCKERS THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" Much like I assume plenty of environmental scientists will in the next few decades. But I'm not going to violate my own ethics just because I think I know better than everyone else (even it were the case that I really did know better).

    EDIT: Basically, the freedom to choose is important. And the freedom to fuck up royally is part-and-parcel to it.

    Let's say the worst comes to the worst, and billions die due to pollution and climate change and sea level rise causing food shortages and mass migrations, as well as extreme political strife and civil unrest and war everywhere. Bio diversity drops by 99%. Pretty much all that's left is us, and what we build from the mass extinction graveyard that will be our legacy and inheritance. That and rats and racoons and cockroaches.

    Is upholding your traditions, ethics and morals, still worth the cost?

    BranniganSepp on
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Yeah, no, I'm not an advocate of fascism in any form.

    So if you were hoping I'd somehow sympathize with your viewpoint, sorry.

    If, via democratic freedom, the First World continues its present course and does not lower its standards of living to a sustainable level, then I will accept that as the future that we choose and will have to figure out how to live with (and hopefully learn from the experience to build a more sustainable civilization).

    I mean, I'll definitely complain about it and yell, "SEE? I TOLD YOU FUCKERS THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" Much like I assume plenty of environmental scientists will in the next few decades. But I'm not going to violate my own ethics just because I think I know better than everyone else (even it were the case that I really did know better).

    EDIT: Basically, the freedom to choose is important. And the freedom to fuck up royally is part-and-parcel to it.

    Let's say the worst comes to the worst, and billions die due to pollution and climate change and sea level rise causing food shortages and mass migrations, as well as extreme political strife and civil unrest and war everywhere. Bio diversity drops by 99%. Pretty much all that's left is us, and what we build from the mass extinction graveyard that will be our legacy and inheritance. That and rats and racoons and cockroaches.

    Is upholding your traditions, ethics and morals, still worth the cost?

    Wait I've seen this before. Are you Keanu Reeves from The Day The Earth Stood Still?

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    I'm doing my part by not having kids.

    Too much work, no return on investment. Any financial planner will tell you that kids are a net drain on assets. I advise against them.

  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    Oh man do I get to be the one to suggest the solution is colonizing other planets, we haven't brought that one up yet, right?

  • BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    Ranlin wrote: »
    Oh man do I get to be the one to suggest the solution is colonizing other planets, we haven't brought that one up yet, right?

    Actually, this quote from the OP accounts for possibilities such your suggestion...
    ...short of completely overthrowing current limitations and paradigms with revolutionary science and extreme economic prowess.

  • RadiusRadius Registered User regular
    Nah, that is such a catch all. You can't argue in good faith with statements that broad.

    Ruling in favor of the bear.

    Everyday we stray further from God's light
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Yeah, no, I'm not an advocate of fascism in any form.

    So if you were hoping I'd somehow sympathize with your viewpoint, sorry.

    If, via democratic freedom, the First World continues its present course and does not lower its standards of living to a sustainable level, then I will accept that as the future that we choose and will have to figure out how to live with (and hopefully learn from the experience to build a more sustainable civilization).

    I mean, I'll definitely complain about it and yell, "SEE? I TOLD YOU FUCKERS THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" Much like I assume plenty of environmental scientists will in the next few decades. But I'm not going to violate my own ethics just because I think I know better than everyone else (even it were the case that I really did know better).

    EDIT: Basically, the freedom to choose is important. And the freedom to fuck up royally is part-and-parcel to it.

    Let's say the worst comes to the worst, and billions die due to pollution and climate change and sea level rise causing food shortages and mass migrations, as well as extreme political strife and civil unrest and war everywhere. Bio diversity drops by 99%. Pretty much all that's left is us, and what we build from the mass extinction graveyard that will be our legacy and inheritance. That and rats and racoons and cockroaches.

    Is upholding your traditions, ethics and morals, still worth the cost?

    I highly, highly doubt climate change could kill off all life on Earth. Give it a few million years and everything that died off will have been replaced.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    This thread just sterilized my mind

    Great, you can have mind sex without consequences now!

    No mind babbies

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Ranlin wrote: »
    Oh man do I get to be the one to suggest the solution is colonizing other planets, we haven't brought that one up yet, right?

    Oh good, I'm safe in that case.

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I say we build a space elevator and start ramping up our space mining.

    Also we should shoot all of our trash and pollution into the sun with a space elevator cannon

    That's how that works right?

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    I say we build a space elevator and start ramping up our space mining.

    Also we should shoot all of our trash and pollution into the sun with a space elevator cannon

    That's how that works right?

    Indeed. Shoot for the stars! Literally.

    Or, you know, neuter and spay everyone to prevent natural procreation. Same difference.

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I don't know about most people

    but I'd rather have moon colonies and asteroid mines and a mars colony than being spayed and having no children.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    I don't know about most people

    but I'd rather have moon colonies and asteroid mines and a mars colony than being spayed and having no children.

    It's only I could theoretically have you and yours neutered and spayed by tomorrow. The positive effects of which could be felt as soon as a decade from now, when the wretched poor and desperately hungry have gone unborn, as have all the *because-it's-what-one-does* children of traditional breeders.

    Can you colonize the Moon or Mars by tomorrow? Meaningfully, and not just as a hollow act of symbolism? And how exactly would space mining help with overpopulation and pollution and climate change and all the other challenges humanity is facing? It's just more fuel for the kindling, if you ask me.

    BranniganSepp on
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Why do you always say "neuter and spay"

    What's your obsession with spaying

  • BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    Why do you always say "neuter and spay"

    What's your obsession with spaying

    Equal opportunity population control. You neuter a man. You spay a woman.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I think you mostly "neuter and spay" animals

This discussion has been closed.