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Blue vs Red: [Democratic Primary] Edition
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That's a blatant lie. A lot of GOP candidates are "in it to win", and they're nowhere near serious.
wait you mean to tell me the purpose of a presidential run isn't to sell books? well i've got this all wrong.
it's a positive if the stances you had twenty years ago were pretty good
I know everyone hates Sanders around here but the guy was pretty fucking spot on about Iraq and I don't see how anyone can see Clinton's support of the invasion as anything but a huge unqualified negative for her as POTUS
but I mean, what's the alternative, a Republican? hah
To rehash old arguments Sanders wasn't good on gay rights, gun control, or the bank bailout 20 years ago. But that doesn't fucking matter at all now. (E: To be clear, Sanders is still not great on gun control or bank bailouts)
People here don't hate Bernie. Stop pretending they do for righteous furor points. I literally have to point out I prefer Bernie on most issues every time I respond to you because I don't hate Clinton.
Clinton herself calls Iraq a mistake. I am concerned by her hawkishness but not because of that particular aspect.
Hates Sanders is... A little much.
I don't think he has a shot at winning the primary or the general.
Other people want him to be more vocal on guns. (I don't really care)
And it is a pretty realistic criticism that he'd have a heck of a lot of trouble actually implementing his platform.
Personally, I think Hillary comes across as a totally mainstream politician, and I don't think she brings much else to the table besides being an effective campaigner who will represent the party.
Bernie is further left in a way that more represents my views. But... Shrug.
After the first two debates and the forum, I've become much more excited for Hillary. As stated upthread, tying herself to Obama is helping.
That doesn't contradict his statement. Denying the consequent is a logical fallacy (A then B does not mean not B implies not A)
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I am not PantsB, but I imagine your question could be answered by changing "I don't think he..." to "I think she..." and finishing that sentence.
Who has even remotely hinted at the bolded? Have you actually read any threads that have discussed Sanders?
It's much easier to have a discussion if you didn't straw man the entire forum.
Then what reason do you have for believing Trump and Carson are not serious candidates capable of being POTUS? If you are basically saying "There's no way to know how good somebody will be as President," then there's no reason not to just vote for your most preferred brand of crazy. If there is a way to at least get an idea of how good somebody will be as president, then it will almost certainly be through success in the same political system you claim to hate.
They each say really stupid things all the time! It's really hard to hire a great employee but it's easy to know the guy who calls the interviewer an idiot is a bad choice. I think it makes perfect sense to say Washington experience doesn't mean a lot with regard to knowing someone will be a good president but saying really dumb and odious things means a lot with regard to knowing someone will be a bad president.
This is how I feel as an Alabama Democrat too, so it cuts both ways whether you're part of the majority or part of the minority in any non swing state.
I vote in the general just so I can say I did, but the only thing I actually care about is the primary where my mom and I strategize about who the best Republican loser who still has a chance to win the Alabama primary and thus keep the Republican clown car burning as long as possible is, and then vote for him.
Last time it was Santorum. Yes, I voted for Santorum in the last presidential primary. And he won our state. Mwahahahaha. It helped prop up his campaign and extended the fight for Romney.
This time we are thinking Ted Cruz is our man.
Of course I only support Republicans in the primary who are utterly unelectable in the general, I'm not dumb.
But come general election? My vote doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter in local and regional stuff since the gerrymandering. I may as well skip the general election, it's basically a waste of time.
Especially since the Democratic Party is majority women. Kind of wasting a lot of potential talent. (Also in STEM fields as a society, but this is a personal hobby horse)
Wait, voting takes an hour?
Curious to note if they asked people at the fundraiser to not endorse any candidates or not. Would make for a disappointing omission of context if so, but if not....that's kinda skeevy.
Yes, they almost certainly did, because it was a democratic party fundraiser and introduction to candidates for US Senate candidates; using your brief "introduce yourself" time to stump for somebody else is pretty gauche.
E: Further, for people who complain about obviously political moves, people are eating out of his hand for an obviously political move.
If you live in Ohio.
Well, if you're poor and live in Ohio....
Do not engage the Watermelons.
I kind of hope that the inverse of 2000 happens relatively soonwith a Dem President who lost the popular vote (though dear god not this election) because its the only way I can see reform happening.
Eh, I don't doubt it happened mostly as described, just not so politicized.
He went to an event. Security screening took a while, because it tends to do that, but it's important because it shows him as down to earth and dealing with the same shit as everybody else.
The people in the bleachers were separated from the people who bought expensive places, because you can't have tons of people milling in the seated area and expect food service to be good or for the people to not have their views blocked. This is embellished because it promotes the "us against the rich" narrative and connects him with the Bernie supporters who flooded the $50 plates.
He did come in with a Bernie sign, because he's using his candidacy to stump for Bernie and (moreso) the image of stumping for Bernie to advance his campaign and was at a Bernie rally earlier.
His introduction did have supporting Bernie Sanders edited out, because it's an Iowa DNC event about US senate candidates and not a national DNC event, but omitting that context furthers the "us against any form of the man, including the DNC" that Reddit Sanders supporters believe in.
The crowd did cheer, probably disproportionatly in the cheap seats, because Bernie supporters from the rally bought $50 tickets to stump for Bernie inside. The people up front probably didn't cheer because they're public figures and didn't pay in solely to stump for somebody irrelevant to the event taking place, but it's important to note they looked terrified because, again, it plays into the "we can beat the rich with numbers" narrative.
Like, it's probably a pretty true story that happened, but it's also an amazing example of putting political spin on a mundane (and slightly stupid) event in order to play to a specific crowd.
I wait an hour from a relatively well off family in suburban Ann Arbor. If you're poor in Ohio you should almost bring a tent.
That's what I meant.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
I have heard tell some amazing stories of your land from my wife, who was fortunate to have escaped from it.
Do you really not get your driver's license, like, 5 minutes after you get your picture taken? Though getting a quarter from any grocery store you remembered to bring pop cans to seems nice. And Founders.
Damn, and people still vote?
I don't think I've ever had to wait more than 5-10 minutes. Often there is no real line at all.
Really excellent ginger ale is another perk.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
But the thing is, it's very likely that the next president will have a oppositional Congress. As much as I love Obama, he's had a very tough time providing more than principled stances and increasingly wearied sighs. We don't need another four years of principle.
But it's the "ugh, Washington establishment" attitude that I really don't get. It seems like a pre-2000 concern, like you're really worried Hillary won't prepare us well enough for the Y2K bug. My entire politically aware life has been spent watching the GOP do their level best to grab the wheel and swerve the car into oncoming traffic. Next to that, a worry that our potential leaders will be foolish enough to take not quite the fastest route or corrupt enough to overestimate their mileage on the reimbursement form doesn't even register.
Disliking the establishment in general is such a bullshit complaint. It says, "I'm unhappy but I don't understand why." There are actual reasons for why the system isn't doing what it should be doing, and none of them boil down to "ugh". Maybe there was a time when the problem with politics was politics--inauthenticity and corruption and cronyism and laziness. But things are way worse than that now. Christ, give me the days when they skimmed off the top of their legislation and gave their friends jobs, because in those halcyon times they passed legislation and did those jobs.
But no, black is white and up is down and it's time to let people who don't know what they're doing take a turn at the rudder. That'll work.
So how Hillary feels in her heart of hearts is, to me, kind of a bullshit argument used largely by people who realize that "I refuse to vote for her because I personally dislike her" sounds stupid and petty when discussing the well-being of 300 million people.
I have come, more and more, to the view that prioritizing or wanting to know what a politician really thinks/feels/wants is just the more bourgeois/"intellectual" version of voting for who you want to have a beer with.
Eh maybe not the heydey of super corruption and cronyism, but at least give us back pork. Pork wasn't even spending 0.5% extra on personal projects, it was allocating 0.5% of money already spent on specific projects. That's a really small power to give Congress if it makes them work together.
America is not very good at democracy in some ways. To some extent, it's deliberate too.
Voting lines like that are insane yo.