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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
edited April 2007
Teeing off on WoW, I'd rather the combat be more strategic and a hell of a lot less "twitch." But I think that's hard to pull off in a dynamic real time game.
I want to see an actually turn-based MMO. Nearly every MMO out there currently uses the exact same queue-based/timer-based attack system where you just hit your number keys and wait for attacks to recharge.
Now, one of the reasons we haven't seen Gears of War: The MMO is quite simply due to lag. You just can't have detailed, fully real-time combat with everyone on the server potentially involved. Yet, many MMOs try to push as much "realtime" interaction in as possible. Look at games like Planetside, an MMOPFS that achieves it's FPS-ness by limiting the number of people in a zone to a fraction of what's in other MMOs, has a much simpler combat system than seen in regular FPSs, and has very limited environmental interaction/physics.
Instead, I think that (at least some) MMO developers should acknowledge the weaknesses of the genre and build their game systems around that. A good, robust turn-based system would address and solve this problem completely. Imagine an MMO with combat like Fallout, Disgaea, XCom, Grandia, or Xenogears. By recognizing that you probably can't have stuff exactly happening in real time, you can build a battle system that takes your actions in turn, but as a consequence you can instead specifically add in more complex maneuvers and actions.
Suddenly, with a turn-based system battlefield position becomes important, you can have complex hit locations, more interaction with the environment, and best of all, your PC's latency becomes almost a non-issue. Everyone can have the same experience, and success comes down to your skill and tactics rather than having a monster internet connection and mad reflexes. You can also branch out in styles, and have players control several characters at once without massively screwing things up. If players have the ability to command several troops, entire armies commanded by relatively few players become possible.
Check out Tales of Eternia online. "Tales" style gameplay, and monster encounters get limited to your own party so you still have realtime fighting.
I was under the impression that game actually used menu based combat.
I want to see an actually turn-based MMO. Nearly every MMO out there currently uses the exact same queue-based/timer-based attack system where you just hit your number keys and wait for attacks to recharge.
Now, one of the reasons we haven't seen Gears of War: The MMO is quite simply due to lag. You just can't have detailed, fully real-time combat with everyone on the server potentially involved. Yet, many MMOs try to push as much "realtime" interaction in as possible. Look at games like Planetside, an MMOPFS that achieves it's FPS-ness by limiting the number of people in a zone to a fraction of what's in other MMOs, has a much simpler combat system than seen in regular FPSs, and has very limited environmental interaction/physics.
Instead, I think that (at least some) MMO developers should acknowledge the weaknesses of the genre and build their game systems around that. A good, robust turn-based system would address and solve this problem completely. Imagine an MMO with combat like Fallout, Disgaea, XCom, Grandia, or Xenogears. By recognizing that you probably can't have stuff exactly happening in real time, you can build a battle system that takes your actions in turn, but as a consequence you can instead specifically add in more complex maneuvers and actions.
Suddenly, with a turn-based system battlefield position becomes important, you can have complex hit locations, more interaction with the environment, and best of all, your PC's latency becomes almost a non-issue. Everyone can have the same experience, and success comes down to your skill and tactics rather than having a monster internet connection and mad reflexes. You can also branch out in styles, and have players control several characters at once without massively screwing things up. If players have the ability to command several troops, entire armies commanded by relatively few players become possible.
Check out Tales of Eternia online. "Tales" style gameplay, and monster encounters get limited to your own party so you still have realtime fighting.
I was under the impression that game actually used menu based combat.
Nope, same battle system as Tales of Eternia. Too bad it's Japan only, so it's kind of a moot point.
I really want to see a MMO cross between oblivion and eve online. Basically, combat would be Oblivion.
Classes: Instead of creating a chacter and choosing what class, you would merely change amor type to change your role. For instance, plate wearing characters could only use very limited stealth and magic abilities, but (obviously) would give bonuses to melee damge dealt and reduction in damage taken. Leather armor would increase melee damge with short swords, daggers and the like, increase stealth abilites, but would have very much defense. Wearing a cotton tunic would give bonuses to bows and stealth, but leave you with very little defense. Robes would obviously allow you to cast magic.
Economy: There wouldn't be instant delivery systems. You couldn't warp to the main city and buy whatever you need and then warp back. Instead, you would have to physically pick up whatever you buy. Different regions would have different minerals, plants, and trees available.This would result in a vibrant economy that would include transport of goods and minerals as well as the harvesting of materials, and the actual time it took to craft. You wouldn't move your hands and presto instant chain mail. Expensive pieces of armor would take hours to produce
Conquest: Guilds would be able to create castles thus own the surrounding land. Castles would be the central hub for guilds. The castle would have things like forges and things like that, so this is where people would bring back their materials. Other players would be able to come and takeover your Castle with siege weapons. If you successfully destroyer a castle, you would be able to pillage it/take it as your own/ w/e. Castles wouldn't be technically destroyed, as within a few days the castle would be repaired.
Combat and death: Combat would be like that of oblivon, on a far bigger scale. When you killed someone, a percentage of their items would surive the fight and you could take them. This would make being a highway man a viable way of playing the game.
Imagine being a rogue character, get a gang of about 6 people together, and running around the countryside stealthed, killing whatever you came across. Imagine epic sige battles with a few hundred people playing, and then over a hill comes a group of about 50 heavily armored players on mounts running around killing mages/archers.
claxton on
Its not enough to win. You want nothing left of your enemy but a skull nailed to a fence post so everybody understands the cost of crossing you. -Durga
I think a Mount and Blade MMO would work nicely. It's quite well balanced, and somewhat skill based.
Lag, however, would limit a realtime game like M&B: The MMO would be unless you did something similar to Planetside where you limit the players in a area.
PaperPlate on
Minecraft: PAPRPL8
League of Legends (your friendly neighborhood support): PAPRPL8
0
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited April 2007
I have heard many good things about the realtime combat controls of Spellborn in the beta forums, however I have yet to put my hands on this game because stupid game doesn't support my GeForce4 Ti 4200 yet. Still, I'm keeping track of that title, as it looks like it's going to be a really fine niche MMORPG.
I'm sick of fantasy though, I want sci fi mmos with people instead of space ships. I don't want to be a space ship. That isn't just a fantasy game with robot skins or some shit like AO. or a cyberpunk game... just no more fucking swords and bows.
Best looking sci fi MMOs coming out look to be Tabula Rasa and Huxley. No gnomes in either and I think I'm buying Tabula Rasa on day one. Lots of focus on instances.
emnmnme on
0
The DeliveratorSlingin PiesThe California BurbclavesRegistered Userregular
Best looking sci fi MMOs coming out look to be Tabula Rasa and Huxley. No gnomes in either and I think I'm buying Tabula Rasa on day one. Lots of focus on instances.
Instances? ugh. There goes my interest. I'm so tired of this trend of your actions having zero impact in the environment. I miss the days of UO where you could actually affect wildlife spawns by genociding the creatures in an area. It wasn't just some game you power leveled through, it was a world you took part in.
So many of these things people want were done well over a decade ago already. Actiony combat where your position mattered? UO had it. Regional resource differences? UO. Limited insta-travel? Zero instances? Combat where a few hits could kill a person? A low stat curve so even a newbie wasn't horribly outclassed? UO had all of this. God I miss the good old days.
The only thing I can hold against UO is that it had a fantasy setting. I'm so tired of elves and magic.
This is my top three things that can kill any MMO for me.
1.)Bad character models - e.g. EQ2- What the frick were they thinking with those Dwarves, and the stealth graphic? And don't get me started on the Vangaurd man-cat things. I can deal with bad graphics, but if everyone looks like they have the downs (Oblivion), then I'm not gonna stare at it all day.
2.)Wonky movement - Every MMO but WoW seems to have this second of lag between pushing a move key, and actually moving, and being able to jump around and crap when I'm fighting is a major plus. No other MMO has got the fluidity of the movement in WoW, most don't even come close.
3.) Boring attacks/leveling - When I use "Death Blow: Rank 9", I want it to look like "Death Blow:Rank 9", Doing the same attack graphic but with a slightly different angle or color streak is blearrggh. Then when I level I want to actually feel like "Whoa, I'm better."
Pardon for all the "I want"s in there, felt like ranting. :P
What I think would be wonderful
__________________________
The combat of a turn based physics based kung-fu game like Toribash but with customizable animations.
the need to level up and get better weapons/armor/moves is a must in MMOs, so things like specializing in fighting styles/moves. and then being able to tweak/customise little animations to make your own styles up. (remember that fighter maker game) Something like that. I don't know how multi-person content would work, but PvP arena style would be awesome
What I think would be wonderful
__________________________
The combat of a turn based physics based kung-fu game like Toribash but with customizable animations.
the need to level up and get better weapons/armor/moves is a must in MMOs, so things like specializing in fighting styles/moves. and then being able to tweak/customise little animations to make your own styles up. (remember that fighter maker game) Something like that. I don't know how multi-person content would work, but PvP arena style would be awesome
The main problem with that is that there would be heavy amounts of lag and memory usage as each player would have to download the customized animations of each other player unless it's kept to limited arena combat.
What I think would be wonderful
__________________________
The combat of a turn based physics based kung-fu game like Toribash but with customizable animations.
the need to level up and get better weapons/armor/moves is a must in MMOs, so things like specializing in fighting styles/moves. and then being able to tweak/customise little animations to make your own styles up. (remember that fighter maker game) Something like that. I don't know how multi-person content would work, but PvP arena style would be awesome
The main problem with that is that there would be heavy amounts of lag and memory usage as each player would have to download the customized animations of each other player unless it's kept to limited arena combat.
But what if it's just a long list of smaller animations that can be strung into custom moves. everyone would already have the animations downloaded. it's just the order that they are arranged in. toribash would benefit from this same idea. being able to program a more complex motion than just one axis bending at a time.
What I think would be wonderful
__________________________
The combat of a turn based physics based kung-fu game like Toribash but with customizable animations.
the need to level up and get better weapons/armor/moves is a must in MMOs, so things like specializing in fighting styles/moves. and then being able to tweak/customise little animations to make your own styles up. (remember that fighter maker game) Something like that. I don't know how multi-person content would work, but PvP arena style would be awesome
The main problem with that is that there would be heavy amounts of lag and memory usage as each player would have to download the customized animations of each other player unless it's kept to limited arena combat.
But what if it's just a long list of smaller animations that can be strung into custom moves. everyone would already have the animations downloaded. it's just the order that they are arranged in. toribash would benefit from this same idea. being able to program a more complex motion than just one axis bending at a time.
Toribash wouldn't benefit from it, because the whole point of the game is that there are no preprogrammed animations, everything is done through joint manipulation.
Also, i really want a FPSMMORPG where people can be assaisins, cops, swat, gangsters,etc.
people lvl up in skill when you use a weapon alot, like GTA:SA, advent rising, or crackdown,
and the npcs on the street should respond to shootouts between people (couragous people help police, gangsters help people in their gang, babies cry, etc.)
gunwarrior on
0
PunkBoyThank you! And thank you again!Registered Userregular
Posts
Pfft!
You mean "Vanish+x-zone is overpowered nerf it!"
:P
Classes: Instead of creating a chacter and choosing what class, you would merely change amor type to change your role. For instance, plate wearing characters could only use very limited stealth and magic abilities, but (obviously) would give bonuses to melee damge dealt and reduction in damage taken. Leather armor would increase melee damge with short swords, daggers and the like, increase stealth abilites, but would have very much defense. Wearing a cotton tunic would give bonuses to bows and stealth, but leave you with very little defense. Robes would obviously allow you to cast magic.
Economy: There wouldn't be instant delivery systems. You couldn't warp to the main city and buy whatever you need and then warp back. Instead, you would have to physically pick up whatever you buy. Different regions would have different minerals, plants, and trees available.This would result in a vibrant economy that would include transport of goods and minerals as well as the harvesting of materials, and the actual time it took to craft. You wouldn't move your hands and presto instant chain mail. Expensive pieces of armor would take hours to produce
Conquest: Guilds would be able to create castles thus own the surrounding land. Castles would be the central hub for guilds. The castle would have things like forges and things like that, so this is where people would bring back their materials. Other players would be able to come and takeover your Castle with siege weapons. If you successfully destroyer a castle, you would be able to pillage it/take it as your own/ w/e. Castles wouldn't be technically destroyed, as within a few days the castle would be repaired.
Combat and death: Combat would be like that of oblivon, on a far bigger scale. When you killed someone, a percentage of their items would surive the fight and you could take them. This would make being a highway man a viable way of playing the game.
Imagine being a rogue character, get a gang of about 6 people together, and running around the countryside stealthed, killing whatever you came across. Imagine epic sige battles with a few hundred people playing, and then over a hill comes a group of about 50 heavily armored players on mounts running around killing mages/archers.
Now there's hats too!
Too bad I don't have a mouse. But Gunbound is still pretty fun too. And Rakion.
Lag, however, would limit a realtime game like M&B: The MMO would be unless you did something similar to Planetside where you limit the players in a area.
League of Legends (your friendly neighborhood support): PAPRPL8
Or a Castlevania MMO.
Or release the Shin Megami MMO in english.
Real Time combat? Check
Brutal finishing moves? Check
Formations? Check
Player positioning having real impact on combat? Check
So far so good.
Instances? ugh. There goes my interest. I'm so tired of this trend of your actions having zero impact in the environment. I miss the days of UO where you could actually affect wildlife spawns by genociding the creatures in an area. It wasn't just some game you power leveled through, it was a world you took part in.
So many of these things people want were done well over a decade ago already. Actiony combat where your position mattered? UO had it. Regional resource differences? UO. Limited insta-travel? Zero instances? Combat where a few hits could kill a person? A low stat curve so even a newbie wasn't horribly outclassed? UO had all of this. God I miss the good old days.
The only thing I can hold against UO is that it had a fantasy setting. I'm so tired of elves and magic.
1.)Bad character models - e.g. EQ2- What the frick were they thinking with those Dwarves, and the stealth graphic? And don't get me started on the Vangaurd man-cat things. I can deal with bad graphics, but if everyone looks like they have the downs (Oblivion), then I'm not gonna stare at it all day.
2.)Wonky movement - Every MMO but WoW seems to have this second of lag between pushing a move key, and actually moving, and being able to jump around and crap when I'm fighting is a major plus. No other MMO has got the fluidity of the movement in WoW, most don't even come close.
3.) Boring attacks/leveling - When I use "Death Blow: Rank 9", I want it to look like "Death Blow:Rank 9", Doing the same attack graphic but with a slightly different angle or color streak is blearrggh. Then when I level I want to actually feel like "Whoa, I'm better."
Pardon for all the "I want"s in there, felt like ranting. :P
__________________________
The combat of a turn based physics based kung-fu game like Toribash but with customizable animations.
the need to level up and get better weapons/armor/moves is a must in MMOs, so things like specializing in fighting styles/moves. and then being able to tweak/customise little animations to make your own styles up. (remember that fighter maker game) Something like that. I don't know how multi-person content would work, but PvP arena style would be awesome
The main problem with that is that there would be heavy amounts of lag and memory usage as each player would have to download the customized animations of each other player unless it's kept to limited arena combat.
I'd die a happy man.
I never asked for this!
But what if it's just a long list of smaller animations that can be strung into custom moves. everyone would already have the animations downloaded. it's just the order that they are arranged in. toribash would benefit from this same idea. being able to program a more complex motion than just one axis bending at a time.
Toribash wouldn't benefit from it, because the whole point of the game is that there are no preprogrammed animations, everything is done through joint manipulation.
Also, i really want a FPSMMORPG where people can be assaisins, cops, swat, gangsters,etc.
people lvl up in skill when you use a weapon alot, like GTA:SA, advent rising, or crackdown,
and the npcs on the street should respond to shootouts between people (couragous people help police, gangsters help people in their gang, babies cry, etc.)
In a perfect world, the top ranked squadrons on the servers get their own intros a la Ace Combat Zero whenever they enter a battle zone.
A player controlled AWACS would be interesting, but I think it would become too overwhelming.