A/V Help - Teaching the Technologically Uneducated :)

Invoice Ninja

Boring Disclaimer This thread's my way of getting a whole lot of questions answered by the awesome people here. Starting any thread here is terrifying enough (I'll give it 2 minutes before there's a "Thread's been done before! Use the search tool! Now here's your punishment lashings, slave!!" post), so I'll understand if it gets locked and I'm cast back into the fiery pits of Google. And yes, I know there's a HD TV's thread - but this pertains to stuff nowhere near that modern, and I didn't want to derail that thread with my ignorance.

OK guys, I'm essentially the home audio/video equivalent of a caveman. Or maybe a renaissance peasant. Anyway, I have absolutely no experience with anything beyond those awesome red/yellow/white cables (PS2 generation) or the co-ax RF-switch thingies the SNES uses. This is due to two primary reasons...

1. Any time I take home a paycheck, my mortgage company promptly gut-punches me and snatches it.
2. I'm a cheap jew. Yes, it's not just a stereotype. Big nose, curly brown hair, and the inability to buy anything until it's old and inexpensive. I probably won't own a Wii until 2009

It's also important to note that I'm not completely brain-dead - I've built dozens of computers, I've wired up lots of surround-sound systems, and I've been obsessed with electronics my whole life. I'm not some old geezer or anything... I've just really gotten way, way behind in all the years since I moved out on my own.

I remember way back in the day, that Storm_Shadow dude would write articles on the site and answer questions on the forum, but jeebus that was one rich technophile. People would ask him which top o' the line Dolby Surround system worked best with their 500 inch TV and would get a twelve page answer. That was a bit too scary for me

Anyway, here's my huge list of questions I would love to have answered...

1. I noticed that my main TV (which is a good ol' fashioned, vintage-1997, 3-ton beast) has one of those newfangled "S-Video" ports. Someone please explain to me how S-Video works. I'm guessing that I'd buy a different cable for either the PS2 or 'Cube (depending on which I choose) which would have the yellow, red, and white, along with a plug for the "S-Video" port? Am I on the right track here?

1.5 And if I'm right about that, would I need to do anything different when I fire up the system? Just turn on the TV, switch to "Video 1" as always, then turn on the PS2 and enjoy awesome new graphics? Or would there be some boring menu options on the TV I'd have to mess with?

2. Is this "S-Video" goodness even worth it? Would I notice a major improvement? Would it make the old PS2 look shiny and awesome, or is it one of those things where I'd need some new fancy-pants TV before I'd even notice?

3. Are there any other not incredibly expensive things that I (or anyone similar to me reading this thread) could do to make my gaming experience more enjoyable? I have a PS2, 'Cube, N64, SNES, and DVD player all hooked up to my main TV in the living room - thanks to one of those neat switch-box things where all the red/yellow/white cables (what's the non-stupid-sounding name for those anyway?) can hook to it at once. I've also got a super-old surround-sound setup hooked up too, with 5 small speakers on top of the entertainment center, with a big subwoofer on the floor.

4. This one's pretty much a follow-up to #3 - if there isn't any real answer to that question, then kindly educate me on the history of A/V hookups. So far my best guess seriously is... Co-Ax => Red/yellow/white => S-video => ...? Component maybe? => HD/780dpi/1080/wtfbbq? => tuna sammitch? This way I'll know what to look for if I really have to buy a new TV to get any improvement.

So if any of my G&T homies wouldn't mind teaching me, I'd really appreciate it! Or within a minute I'll get a "Stupid thread! To the dungeon with you!" from a mod and you'll never hear from me again ;-)

Invoice Ninja

A bunch of views, no replies, and already at the bottom of the page. I'll give this thread one good bumpin' before admitting defeat and letting it drop away into oblivion

mspencer

Fear not -- if I have time I'll definitely write a long reply to this. No guarantees if it'll appear tonight or tomorrow or Monday though... I'll try.

Invoice Ninja

Awesome, thank you!

yalborap

First of all, those red/white/yellow cables are called composite.

Second, you've got the basic idea. S-Video IS a distinct improvement over composite, and component is a higher improvement over that. However, the difference between S-video and component is not nearly as large as the difference between s-video and composite.

Third, HD is actually pretty simple when learning the basic concepts. Picking a TV, now THAT's tricky. Basically, think of 480/720/1080 as computer resolutions. You have 640x480, somethingx720, and somethingx1080. I forget the exact numbers for those. the i and p stand for interlaced or progressive scan. Essentially, an SDTV(standard definition/non-high-definition) TV works in 480i. Interlaced means it only renders half the lines each frame. Lines 1, 3, 5, etc. on frame one, lines 2, 4, 6, etc. on line 2, repeat endlessly. progressive scan, or EDTV, renders all the lines each frame.

I think that's the absolute basics. Someone else can go further.

mspencer

First, on a personal note, it's good that you were worried about this being a bad thread. That's a healthy worry -- it made you search for answers ahead of time before creating a new thread. You already demonstrated that you were a thoughtful, considerate new-thread-starter.

Don't consider a thread a failure until it's gone a good 24 hours without a reply AT LEAST. Bottom of page 1 is nothing -- don't worry about it. Bottom of page 8 might be a problem. I frequently have to dig into page 2 or 3 for popular threads with reasonably recent activity.

I'll summarize the various hookups, past and present:

video and audio signals can exist in many forms:

* RF, either actual broadcast signals or from an RF converter
* Composite video (that yellow cable) along with white and red audio cables
* S-video (video only)
* Component, carrying NTSC
* Component, carrying hi-def
* VGA cable, carrying any nonstandard video signal
* HDMI, carrying digital video and digital audio

RF is the original broadcast video standard. OLD old game consoles supported this, but you can still get converters for modern equipment. An RF video signal contains NTSC video encoded as a low-voltage high-frequency signal. Very old TV's only had antenna connectors, either coax or two pairs of screws (one pair for VHF and one pair for UHF.)

Composite video is that yellow cable. The yellow cable carries video only, so you usually don't see it by itself: it comes with a white cable for equipment that outputs mono audio, or it comes with red and white cables for equipment that outputs stereo audio. That yellow cable outputs NTSC video, so quality should equal the best possible RF video signal's quality.

S-video is a DIN plug with fine metal pins, and it carries only video. Separate cables are needed for audio information, usually the white and red RCA plugs found in common with composite video. S-video cables are capable of transmitting higher fidelity video signals. The reason for the increase in quality can be explained simply: composite video (as well as RF signals) must combine signals for red, blue, and green together into one waveform. (Internally the TV breaks this one waveform down into sub-signals for intensity and color, and calculates RGB values from that.) S-video has two different waveforms, one for intensity and one for color, so more picture information is available. In practice this means S-video signals don't suffer from as many problems with bleeding colors and dot crawl. Text won't look as blurry, for example.

Component video uses three (or more, but usually only three) RCA-plug cables which all carry different information about the same video signal. Component video is capable of even better image fidelity than S-video: now there are three wires and three waveforms, so more information is carried to the TV.

I recommend switching to S-video because your TV supports it. Fine detail will be easier to see with S-video, and text will be a bit easier to read. You would need new cables for your game consoles though.

I don't know what your TV will require to switch between composite and S-video inputs, though.

The next step up in video quality involves another TV, so nothing else cheap comes to mind. If you aren't happy with your audio experience you could buy a pair of nice headphones instead of using speakers.

Invoice Ninja

Thank you both!!

OK, so what I gather is that I can upgrade my switch to something more like this , connect it to the TV using the white & red for audio, and an S-video cable for video, and then get new cables for all the systems and I'll be ready to rock, right?

This sounds like a fun little project, and in my price-range no less! Guess the old TV's not as old as I thought it was.

And hey, now that you've educated me I won't have to talk to the Best Buy guy, who'd probably just try to sell me a new TV and a $200 Monster surge protector anyway (cue the PA comic about needing one to keep the power-eating goblins away).

And now to initiate my brilliant plan to let this thread disappear and try to pass myself off like I never asked these questions!

...you saw nothing ;-)

CZroe

yalborap wrote: »

First of all, those red/white/yellow cables are called composite.

Second, you've got the basic idea. S-Video IS a distinct improvement over composite, and component is a higher improvement over that. However, the difference between S-video and component is not nearly as large as the difference between s-video and composite.

Actually, at the same resolution (like with the Gamecube), the jump from S-Video to Component is not as drastic as the jump from unreadable text to readable text (Composite to S-Video).

CZroe

CZroe wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

First of all, those red/white/yellow cables are called composite.

Second, you've got the basic idea. S-Video IS a distinct improvement over composite, and component is a higher improvement over that. However, the difference between S-video and component is not nearly as large as the difference between s-video and composite.

Actually, at the same resolution (like with the Gamecube), the jump from S-Video to Component is not as drastic as the jump from unreadable text to readable text (Composite to S-Video).

Oops. I see I just reiterated your point.

Ichinisan

I've seen a Pelican-brand game switch that includes 4 switchable inputs with S-Video and composite for all... < $10.00

I'm not sure where I last saw one that cheap.

[edit]
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pelican-PL-940-5-Way-Game-AV-System-Selector-Switch_W0QQitemZ300074150939QQihZ020QQcategoryZ49230QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
^^^ that's what it looks like ^^^