This is probably the point at which Bernie's presence is costing Hillary votes rather than simply pulling her into a more favorable leftward stance. Which is a thing that would happen at some point, but it's disappointing that it's over false attacks.
Like I said weeks ago the dems are getting goosey as shit. They are going to tear themselves apart in the next couple of months, and we're going to be left with president Trump because of it. If it weren't for the fact that they are getting torn up for some genuinely arguable reasons I'd be more pissed, but I'm still pretty pissed because it is going to end up with a Trump presidency after a bunch of chucklefucks declare #NeverHillary. I just hope to be proven wrong there. That there's actually enough sensible folks left that can understand that given an inevitable choice where in the end Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton is the next president that Hillary is, at the very least, identifiably the lesser of two evils (though I guess since I don't see Hillary as evil, and don't really even understand how people really do, that I'm not the best judge of that).
dude, 2008 was way more brutal than this, both in interactions between actual campaigns and their supporters, and in the end everyone* got their priorities straight
it's going to be fine
*certain Clinton supporters notwithstanding
Clinton has very high favorable with Sanders supporters and vice versa. The ONLY way the democrats could screw it up in terms of Democrats defecting is if Bernie loses, but just barely so, to the point where super delegates can be said to be the only cause and then for some reason he goes utterly insane and gives a speech telling his supporters to vote Republican and then goes and campaigns for Trump.
yeah, as usual, there's a few loudmouths skewing the conversation
The Democrats won't "Coffee Party" themselves because we're on the whole too busy fighting a holding action against regressive GOP policy and legislative obstructionism. Or, more simply, we all know we're too busy holding the dam together to start any infighting.
DNC Liberal/Progressive shift will be a side effect of newer generations of D politicians as time inevitably marches forward.
Dems also haven't been fostering an attitude of uncompromising opposition or demonized learning. The prevailing attitude for most policies is generally how to best achieve common goals rather than opposing something because the other guy's for it or thinking the available information "feels" wrong.
The DNC is by no means perfect but a split like the Tea Party is causing just isn't likely.
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
I get that Rahm is on his way out of the Democratic Party, but I'm not super fond of how Sanders continues to attack people in his own party to bolster his support. It doesn't speak well for helping down ticket races.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
On a more positive note, Sanders unveils a HIV/AIDS plan. https://berniesanders.com/issues/hiv-and-aids/
And as is so often the case, i more or less agree with most of the stuff i read in it.
But can't imagine how he'd get any of it through.
I get that Rahm is on his way out of the Democratic Party, but I'm not super fond of how Sanders continues to attack people in his own party to bolster his support. It doesn't speak well for helping down ticket races.
Just because he has a D next to his name doesn't mean he deserves Sanders's respect and admiration. Isn't that how the Rs work?
I get that Rahm is on his way out of the Democratic Party, but I'm not super fond of how Sanders continues to attack people in his own party to bolster his support. It doesn't speak well for helping down ticket races.
Just because he has a D next to his name doesn't mean he deserves Sanders's respect and admiration. Isn't that how the Rs work?
Doesn't have to respect him, but I think you can make your appeal without crapping on a democrat to do it, even an awful one like Rahm Emmanuel.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
how would that be a danger for the DNC?
I'd rather see an actually conservative party pull some of the more conservative leaning Dems.
I'd also like for them to ignore the racists and fascists.
And debate how much the government should be helping people rather than not at all.
I get that Rahm is on his way out of the Democratic Party, but I'm not super fond of how Sanders continues to attack people in his own party to bolster his support. It doesn't speak well for helping down ticket races.
Just because he has a D next to his name doesn't mean he deserves Sanders's respect and admiration. Isn't that how the Rs work?
Doesn't have to respect him, but I think you can make your appeal without crapping on a democrat to do it, even an awful one like Rahm Emmanuel.
Eh, Rahm is getting what he richly deserves, especially after suppressing a video that would have killed his re-election. That said, this does smack a bit of opportunism as well.
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
I get that Rahm is on his way out of the Democratic Party, but I'm not super fond of how Sanders continues to attack people in his own party to bolster his support. It doesn't speak well for helping down ticket races.
He's not a democrat, why would he care?
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Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
Hold the phones, this just got a lot more complicated.
I get that Rahm is on his way out of the Democratic Party, but I'm not super fond of how Sanders continues to attack people in his own party to bolster his support. It doesn't speak well for helping down ticket races.
He's not a democrat, why would he care?
"Is Bernie actually a Democrat" is right up there next to "What does Hillary actually believe" on the Family Feud survey board of Things Joshofalltrades Is Tired of Rehashing in the Democratic Primary Thread
+6
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
dude is a living exemplar of the peters principle
Duncan or King?
Yes
edit - primaries related will be interesting to see how tomorrow's votes turn out. As someone who voted for Sanders on Stupor Tuesday I am hoping he remains long enough to continue keeping some pressure on Clinton, but not so long that he eventually becomes a drag on the pivot to the general.
CptKemzik on
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
dude is a living exemplar of the peters principle
Duncan or King?
I was talking about Duncan, but I guess there's no reason it can't be both
(other than the fact that I don't know much about King)
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
how would that be a danger for the DNC?
I'd rather see an actually conservative party pull some of the more conservative leaning Dems.
I'd also like for them to ignore the racists and fascists.
And debate how much the government should be helping people rather than not at all.
And a unicorn.
It would be a wonderful place if we could have
45% Left Democrats
45% Center Republicans
10% Far right racist party
rather than
53% Center Democrats
47% Right Republicans, now with 2 scoops of racism
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
dude is a living exemplar of the peters principle
Duncan or King?
I was talking about Duncan, but I guess there's no reason it can't be both
(other than the fact that I don't know much about King)
A quick Wiki-ing reveals that he went on a "listening tour" in 2013, probably in expectation of receiving accolades for implementing Common Core into NY's state standards, and instead received a round of calls from parents' groups and the teacher's union to resign. Cue failing upwards into Washington DC (which sounds about right for K-12 administration).
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
dude is a living exemplar of the peters principle
Duncan or King?
I was talking about Duncan, but I guess there's no reason it can't be both
(other than the fact that I don't know much about King)
Vox did a short overview of him a few months back. He's basically a NY flavored version of Duncan.
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
fuckin'
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
The issue is more that the President is overly invested in the model Duncan brought in, even though it's clear at this point that it's a failure. But then again, the bigger problem is we as a society have a lot of snake oil getting sold to us for education.
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
The issue is more that the President is overly invested in the model Duncan brought in, even though it's clear at this point that it's a failure. But then again, the bigger problem is we as a society have a lot of snake oil getting sold to us for education.
Arguably it's an issue that in some ways is more emblematic of the "big money corruption" in the D party that Sanders rails against than banking & financial regulation.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
how would that be a danger for the DNC?
I'd rather see an actually conservative party pull some of the more conservative leaning Dems.
I'd also like for them to ignore the racists and fascists.
And debate how much the government should be helping people rather than not at all.
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
how would that be a danger for the DNC?
I'd rather see an actually conservative party pull some of the more conservative leaning Dems.
I'd also like for them to ignore the racists and fascists.
And debate how much the government should be helping people rather than not at all.
And a unicorn.
what did you name your unicorn?
I can't speak for Quid, but I named mine The United States Joining The Rest Of The First World In Having Sane Politicians Instead Of Pandering To Racists And Regressive Geese And Life Gets Better For Most Of The Citizenry As A Result.
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
The issue is more that the President is overly invested in the model Duncan brought in, even though it's clear at this point that it's a failure. But then again, the bigger problem is we as a society have a lot of snake oil getting sold to us for education.
Arguably it's an issue that in some ways is more emblematic of the "big money corruption" in the D party that Sanders rails against than banking & financial regulation.
Could you explain what you mean by "big money" in this instance? I'm in Indiana so when I see "big money" and "corruption" and education in the same sentence/thought I'm conditioned to think that someone's attacking the teacher's union(s).
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
The issue is more that the President is overly invested in the model Duncan brought in, even though it's clear at this point that it's a failure. But then again, the bigger problem is we as a society have a lot of snake oil getting sold to us for education.
Arguably it's an issue that in some ways is more emblematic of the "big money corruption" in the D party that Sanders rails against than banking & financial regulation.
Could you explain what you mean by "big money" in this instance? I'm in Indiana so when I see "big money" and "corruption" and education in the same sentence/thought I'm conditioned to think that someone's attacking the teacher's union(s).
Attacks on teacher's unions is one (symptomatic) example, but other examples include: the widespread top-down attempt at implementing Common Core, which has had the backing of billions of dollars from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and circulating "school choice" as an apolitical/non-controversial opinion in K-12 education, backed heavily by the Walton Family Foundation (i/e the Wal-Mart family) both of which are attempts by an elite plurality to mold public education according to their visions rather than the larger public's (which is hardly anything new in the history of education).
There's the idea of public schools being "sclerotic" and "glacial" in adopting information technology, when in fact schools have a fairly rich history of having technological boondoggles hoisted onto themselves costing who-knows-what, and having questionable efficacy at times, but always providing handsome profits to the companies who lobby to have such technologies implemented.
Finally there's Democrats like Emmanuel, Duncan, King, et al. who are figureheads of the "reform movement:" their reform however being to promote charter schools and centralized control of education at the expense of public schools and local control, the latter part being an issue that's certainly debatable - see anti-science curricula in southern schools with lots of state/local control - but folks like Emmanuel basically don't want any democratic input in the administrative process. These are folks, along with the aforementioned foundations and techie boosters, who receive money from the very same wall street/big bank/venture capital folks that Sanders likes to rail against w/r/t campaign finance, and financial regulation in the US.
To give a folksy summation of big money in K12 ed: there's so much money sloshing around at the top, yet when it finally drips to the bottom of various funnels, teachers are somehow still paying for essential school supplies out-of-pocket from their generous $30-40K annual salaries.
The biggest danger for the DNC would in theory be a republican party splintering in to pieces and the dems gaining back some form of blue dog of fiscally more conservative but socially liberal again.
how would that be a danger for the DNC?
I'd rather see an actually conservative party pull some of the more conservative leaning Dems.
I'd also like for them to ignore the racists and fascists.
And debate how much the government should be helping people rather than not at all.
And a unicorn.
what did you name your unicorn?
I can't speak for Quid, but I named mine The United States Joining The Rest Of The First World In Having Sane Politicians Instead Of Pandering To Racists And Regressive Geese And Life Gets Better For Most Of The Citizenry As A Result.
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
This is not a problem that is in anyway unique to democrats.
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
The issue is more that the President is overly invested in the model Duncan brought in, even though it's clear at this point that it's a failure. But then again, the bigger problem is we as a society have a lot of snake oil getting sold to us for education.
Arguably it's an issue that in some ways is more emblematic of the "big money corruption" in the D party that Sanders rails against than banking & financial regulation.
Could you explain what you mean by "big money" in this instance? I'm in Indiana so when I see "big money" and "corruption" and education in the same sentence/thought I'm conditioned to think that someone's attacking the teacher's union(s).
Well, the Gates Foundation created Common Core, for one. But the big thing is that you have the conflating of the geese who want to privatize school funding into their pockets, and the geese who want to use schools as an excuse for bringing in foreign workers on the cheap.
Good on Bernie for shitting all over Rahm. The President's second worst mistake (Duncan).
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
dude is a living exemplar of the peters principle
Duncan or King?
Yes
edit - primaries related will be interesting to see how tomorrow's votes turn out. As someone who voted for Sanders on Stupor Tuesday I am hoping he remains long enough to continue keeping some pressure on Clinton, but not so long that he eventually becomes a drag on the pivot to the general.
I really don't see as she has any room to pivot towards the right and still claim to want to make any progress at all in the area she's pivoting. Her proposals seem fairly slight as is.
Derrick on
Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
This is not a problem that is in anyway unique to democrats.
yeah but I don't give a shit if the republicans keep doing it
Posts
yeah, as usual, there's a few loudmouths skewing the conversation
Dems also haven't been fostering an attitude of uncompromising opposition or demonized learning. The prevailing attitude for most policies is generally how to best achieve common goals rather than opposing something because the other guy's for it or thinking the available information "feels" wrong.
The DNC is by no means perfect but a split like the Tea Party is causing just isn't likely.
how would that be a danger for the DNC?
Bernie has found a good button to hammer on in Chicago. Figure that will get some local coverage. We'll see what the results are tomorrow.
pleasepaypreacher.net
https://berniesanders.com/issues/hiv-and-aids/
And as is so often the case, i more or less agree with most of the stuff i read in it.
But can't imagine how he'd get any of it through.
Yes, but so is Rauner, who is doing everything in his power to gut the state.
yes, fair point
Just because he has a D next to his name doesn't mean he deserves Sanders's respect and admiration. Isn't that how the Rs work?
Doesn't have to respect him, but I think you can make your appeal without crapping on a democrat to do it, even an awful one like Rahm Emmanuel.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'd rather see an actually conservative party pull some of the more conservative leaning Dems.
I'd also like for them to ignore the racists and fascists.
And debate how much the government should be helping people rather than not at all.
And a unicorn.
Eh, Rahm is getting what he richly deserves, especially after suppressing a video that would have killed his re-election. That said, this does smack a bit of opportunism as well.
Oh, don't get me started on Duncan (and Obama didn't exactly do great with his replacement, who basically got chased out of Albany. Then again, neither party is "good" on education.)
He's not a democrat, why would he care?
"Is Bernie actually a Democrat" is right up there next to "What does Hillary actually believe" on the Family Feud survey board of Things Joshofalltrades Is Tired of Rehashing in the Democratic Primary Thread
dude is a living exemplar of the peters principle
Duncan or King?
Yes
edit - primaries related will be interesting to see how tomorrow's votes turn out. As someone who voted for Sanders on Stupor Tuesday I am hoping he remains long enough to continue keeping some pressure on Clinton, but not so long that he eventually becomes a drag on the pivot to the general.
I was talking about Duncan, but I guess there's no reason it can't be both
(other than the fact that I don't know much about King)
It would be a wonderful place if we could have
45% Left Democrats
45% Center Republicans
10% Far right racist party
rather than
53% Center Democrats
47% Right Republicans, now with 2 scoops of racism
A quick Wiki-ing reveals that he went on a "listening tour" in 2013, probably in expectation of receiving accolades for implementing Common Core into NY's state standards, and instead received a round of calls from parents' groups and the teacher's union to resign. Cue failing upwards into Washington DC (which sounds about right for K-12 administration).
Vox did a short overview of him a few months back. He's basically a NY flavored version of Duncan.
I really wish the democratic party would re-examine this tradition of giving people important positions despite demonstrated failures just because they've been around awhile
The issue is more that the President is overly invested in the model Duncan brought in, even though it's clear at this point that it's a failure. But then again, the bigger problem is we as a society have a lot of snake oil getting sold to us for education.
Arguably it's an issue that in some ways is more emblematic of the "big money corruption" in the D party that Sanders rails against than banking & financial regulation.
what did you name your unicorn?
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
I can't speak for Quid, but I named mine The United States Joining The Rest Of The First World In Having Sane Politicians Instead Of Pandering To Racists And Regressive Geese And Life Gets Better For Most Of The Citizenry As A Result.
Or Sparkles, for short.
Could you explain what you mean by "big money" in this instance? I'm in Indiana so when I see "big money" and "corruption" and education in the same sentence/thought I'm conditioned to think that someone's attacking the teacher's union(s).
Attacks on teacher's unions is one (symptomatic) example, but other examples include: the widespread top-down attempt at implementing Common Core, which has had the backing of billions of dollars from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and circulating "school choice" as an apolitical/non-controversial opinion in K-12 education, backed heavily by the Walton Family Foundation (i/e the Wal-Mart family) both of which are attempts by an elite plurality to mold public education according to their visions rather than the larger public's (which is hardly anything new in the history of education).
There's the idea of public schools being "sclerotic" and "glacial" in adopting information technology, when in fact schools have a fairly rich history of having technological boondoggles hoisted onto themselves costing who-knows-what, and having questionable efficacy at times, but always providing handsome profits to the companies who lobby to have such technologies implemented.
Finally there's Democrats like Emmanuel, Duncan, King, et al. who are figureheads of the "reform movement:" their reform however being to promote charter schools and centralized control of education at the expense of public schools and local control, the latter part being an issue that's certainly debatable - see anti-science curricula in southern schools with lots of state/local control - but folks like Emmanuel basically don't want any democratic input in the administrative process. These are folks, along with the aforementioned foundations and techie boosters, who receive money from the very same wall street/big bank/venture capital folks that Sanders likes to rail against w/r/t campaign finance, and financial regulation in the US.
To give a folksy summation of big money in K12 ed: there's so much money sloshing around at the top, yet when it finally drips to the bottom of various funnels, teachers are somehow still paying for essential school supplies out-of-pocket from their generous $30-40K annual salaries.
Pfft.
Sane Politicians Acting Rationally Know Leadership Embraces Self-reflection.
Backronym king over here. And I don't want to hear shit about the hyphen that counts.
cause you registered the name. right?
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
This is not a problem that is in anyway unique to democrats.
Well, the Gates Foundation created Common Core, for one. But the big thing is that you have the conflating of the geese who want to privatize school funding into their pockets, and the geese who want to use schools as an excuse for bringing in foreign workers on the cheap.
I really don't see as she has any room to pivot towards the right and still claim to want to make any progress at all in the area she's pivoting. Her proposals seem fairly slight as is.
yeah but I don't give a shit if the republicans keep doing it
I wonder how much longer this will go on.