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The Democratic Primary: Will Never End

ElkiElki get busyModerator, ClubPA mod
The Democratic primary is happening to many people, and it will continue to happen. Do not fight it or despair. Resign, and accept that the Democratic primary will keep happening to you.


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Posts

  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Thread title and OP are too real.

    10 = yes, 1 = no; yes = 10, no = 1
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  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    The little dog represents Stem Cell Research.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    And Sanders is arguing that Clinton is taking his response to Maddow on Trump’s comments on abortion "out of context".

    What context? You got served up a nice softball, and you whiffed.

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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Because it got a bit buried, I am still curious if people have thoughts on exactly how they'd like to see Hillary incorporate what they want from Bernie.

    Since I think he's popular enough to merit some consideration of that.

    10 = yes, 1 = no; yes = 10, no = 1
  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Because it got a bit buried, I am still curious if people have thoughts on exactly how they'd like to see Hillary incorporate what they want from Bernie.

    Since I think he's popular enough to merit some consideration of that.

    On things that aren't terrible and aren't implausible for Hillary to support, Hillary could at least shift the focus on her minimum wage proposal to $15+ in high CoL areas instead of $12 nationally, and could strengthen her cheap education proposal. She could also soften her stance on foreign policy in comparison to whoever the Republican is, even if it is only by contrasting "Violence should be an option, but not the first resort" with "Fuck yeah, violence" instead of Sanders "violence should be a last resort" (all very, very rough sketches of their policy).

    There's no way she's going to support Single Payer or go anti-Free Trade.

    I ate an engineer
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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Surfpossum, I didn't think you were trying to trick me into anything, I was just confused because you were asking me what I would prefer when I was just clarifying what I thought Sanders meant by his comments on Colbert.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
    Surfpossum
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    And Sanders is arguing that Clinton is taking his response to Maddow on Trump’s comments on abortion "out of context".

    What context? You got served up a nice softball, and you whiffed.

    Hilarious in that his campaign is out there with the bullshit about her being supported by the fossil fuel lobby when it doesn't even make up an actual % of her funding like seriously its less than 1.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Per minimum wage, California is going to end up being the guinea pig for these things now that they've past a $15/hr law statewide. If it goes well everywhere, I expect to see the Democrats support that level of hike. If it flames out in the lower CoL areas and causes problems but in the higher CoL areas it does well, I expect a stepped proposal for major cities like you're proposing.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    And Sanders is arguing that Clinton is taking his response to Maddow on Trump’s comments on abortion "out of context".

    What context? You got served up a nice softball, and you whiffed.

    clinton's campaign implies that Sanders believes access to abortion is not a 'serious issue,' which is not at all what he said

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Also with regards to Bernie complaining about the context of the trump remarks Rachel is out front saying why Trump's remarks matter.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-exposes-truth-of-anti-abortion-politics-656239171633

    Because its not just what Trump believes, its what the GOP believes. He said it bluntly, but its party line by the GOP.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    Harry DresdenOneAngryPossumMegaMekWraith260
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    My take away from the Colbert segment:

    Bernie Sanders says the quippy made-for-tv soundbite "More democracy in the Democratic primary" (or whatever), then follows up talking about how Supers should swap to him because he's "more electable", which would be undermining the democratic process.

    So, uh, yeah, fuck that hypocritical sequence of noises he produced.

    Houn on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    And Sanders is arguing that Clinton is taking his response to Maddow on Trump’s comments on abortion "out of context".

    What context? You got served up a nice softball, and you whiffed.

    clinton's campaign implies that Sanders believes access to abortion is not a 'serious issue,' which is not at all what he said
    MADDOW: And Mr. Trump has made -- is making headlines on -- on this issue today, obviously, because of what he said. It's sort of, you know, taken the media day by storm.

    Um, that said, I think there may be a case to be made -- and I'd love your -- just your response to this, your perspective on this, uh, that his opponent, Senator Ted Cruz, is more extreme on this issue. And I say that, in part, because one of his national co-chairs on his Pro-Lifers for Cruz coalition, is a man named Troy Newman, who once wrote a book saying that abortion providers should be executed.

    Is Ted Cruz even further out on this issue than Donald Trump is?

    SANDERS: Well, you -- you know, you're living in crazy world there. And that is why, uh, you know, the Republican Party, if they continue in this direction, will be, as I mentioned a moment ago, a fringe party.

    Uh, look, they have nothing to say. All they can appeal is to a small number of people who feel very rabid, very rabid about a particular issue, whether it's abortion or maybe whether it's gay marriage. That is their constituency. They have nothing of substance.

    You know, you mentioned a moment ago, Rachel, that the media is paying attention to Donald Trump.

    Duh?

    No kidding. Once again, every stupid remark will be broadcast, you know, for the next five days.

    But what is Donald Trump's position on raising the minimum wage?

    Well, he doesn't think so.

    What is Donald Trump's position on wages in America?

    Well, he said in a Republican debate he thinks wages are too high.

    What's Donald Trump's position on taxes?

    Well, he wants to give billionaire families like himself hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks.

    What is Donald Trump's position on climate change?

    Oh, he thinks it's a hoax perpetrated, shock of all shock, by the Chinese. You know, on and on it goes.

    But because media is what media is today, any stupid, absurd remark made by Donald Trump becomes the story of the week. Maybe, just maybe, we might want to have a serious discussion about the serious issues facing America.
    Donald Trump will not look quite so interesting in that context.

    You're right in that he didn't say it exactly. But his comments sure do come across saying that.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    And Sanders is arguing that Clinton is taking his response to Maddow on Trump’s comments on abortion "out of context".

    What context? You got served up a nice softball, and you whiffed.

    clinton's campaign implies that Sanders believes access to abortion is not a 'serious issue,' which is not at all what he said

    This is why optics are important, Maddow's softball turned into weak spot for Hillary to hit.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    So this is interesting. I personally don't think what Sanders is saying about her monetary contributions is a cruel lie or anything, so it surprises me to see Hillary say she's sick of his lies and stuff when this isn't a lie. Misleading, possibly! It's kind of unclear.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-apology-221457
    “I think she probably owes the senator an apology for that because the senator is not lying about her record,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told MSNBC. “He’s talking about her record. He’s talking about her practices. She obviously doesn’t like it, but that doesn’t make it lying because you don’t like it.”

    As far as I can tell, Hillary and Bernie have different ideas of what "taking money from the fossil fuel industry" is. But I wouldn't say Bernie is lying.
    Joel Benenson, a senior adviser to Clinton’s campaign, said Sanders’ camp has repeatedly accused Clinton of accepting money from the fossil fuel industry.

    “She doesn’t. Neither does he,” Benenson told MSNBC. “Neither one of them takes money from the fossil fuel industry. Both of them have individuals who work in that industry and have given that money.”

    I do not know the exact sources of that money so it's a little tricky I think. If it's lobbyists and higher ups in those companies making substantial contributions like that, then yeah that's somewhat troubling. But then again, Sanders too has received 50k. If it's just people who work in those companies, it's a big who cares other than the candidates yelling at each other about it. I am very unclear on if their money came from different places or what.

    Of course, then there's this:
    According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Clinton has received more than $330,000 from donors with ties to the oil and gas industry, while Sanders has gotten more than $53,000. Accepting contributions directly from the industry would violate election law.

    Greenpeace reports that Clinton has received more than $4.5 million in total from oil, gas and coal lobbyists, bundlers to her campaign and allied super PAC.

    So an oil company can't give directly to a candidate, but their members can. If their members are giving a substantial amount, does that count as "receiving money from the fossil fuel industry" or not?

    Campaign finance!

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Also with regards to Bernie complaining about the context of the trump remarks Rachel is out front saying why Trump's remarks matter.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-exposes-truth-of-anti-abortion-politics-656239171633

    Because its not just what Trump believes, its what the GOP believes. He said it bluntly, but its party line by the GOP.

    The GOP isn't mad at the content of Trump's statements. They're mad that he made the subtext text. Which is why Sanders' dismissal is a problem.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics

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    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Surfpossum, I didn't think you were trying to trick me into anything, I was just confused because you were asking me what I would prefer when I was just clarifying what I thought Sanders meant by his comments on Colbert.
    Yeah, I probably should have elaborated that I was focusing on Sanders making it sound like he was losing unfairly when really he'd just be losing slightly less (or, more accurately given how super delegates function, losing slightly more).

    There's a narrative that Hillary is only winning because [thing] instead of just getting more votes, and I don't like seeing him encourage it.

    10 = yes, 1 = no; yes = 10, no = 1
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics

    Except again what he was saying was the actual right wing belief on abortion without the filters. And that's what Rachel was asking him about, and that's what he went back to stump about economic issues and then says they aren't discussing serious issues.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics
    Right.

    Given an opportunity to comment on how the anti-abortion movement is not limited to Trump and has in fact been making real and effective progress at eroding abortion rights, he instead used that time to complain about the media being addicted to Trump.

    Clinton has rightfully been pointing out, repeatedly, since then that Trump said it, Cruz voted for it, and Kasich enacted it (that's a PP meme but she's been saying similar).

    Everything's an opportunity and how you use it indicates your priorities.

    10 = yes, 1 = no; yes = 10, no = 1
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Yes? I mean in the same way the team that scores more points is the victor in a sporting event?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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    Harry Dresdenoverride367milski
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Surfpossum, I didn't think you were trying to trick me into anything, I was just confused because you were asking me what I would prefer when I was just clarifying what I thought Sanders meant by his comments on Colbert.
    Yeah, I probably should have elaborated that I was focusing on Sanders making it sound like he was losing unfairly when really he'd just be losing slightly less (or, more accurately given how super delegates function, losing slightly more).

    There's a narrative that Hillary is only winning because [thing] instead of just getting more votes, and I don't like seeing him encourage it.

    Right, she's not winning because of them. But if Bernie somehow managed to swing them all at the moment it would put him ahead of her, so they can still be the determining factor in the campaign.

    I don't think we really need them, because all they do is mislead and confuse most people.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Why do you think this is a controversial stance?

    override367
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics

    Clinton's point is that Donald Trump's comments on abortion are a serious topic.

    And the gradual erosion of abortion rights across the US suggests that she is correct on that front imo.

    milskiOneAngryPossumNyysjanMvrckJuliusArdolEdith UpwardsMoridin889kimeWraith260
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2016
    Paladin wrote: »
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Hillary is only winning in the states that she's winning, though. If you look back at the results, you'll find that she didn't win any state where Bernie had more support.

    Elki on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics
    Right.

    Given an opportunity to comment on how the anti-abortion movement is not limited to Trump and has in fact been making real and effective progress at eroding abortion rights, he instead used that time to complain about the media being addicted to Trump.

    Clinton has rightfully been pointing out, repeatedly, since then that Trump said it, Cruz voted for it, and Kasich enacted it (that's a PP meme but she's been saying similar).

    Everything's an opportunity and how you use it indicates your priorities.

    if you want to say that he placed insufficient emphasis on the portion of his answer where he made it clear he supports access to abortion that's fine

    that is however not what the clinton campaign is claiming he said

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    Apothe0sis
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    ahh so Hillary is winning because she's winning

    woah

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Why do you think this is a controversial stance?

    4/1/2016

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    So this is interesting. I personally don't think what Sanders is saying about her monetary contributions is a cruel lie or anything, so it surprises me to see Hillary say she's sick of his lies and stuff when this isn't a lie. Misleading, possibly! It's kind of unclear.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-apology-221457
    “I think she probably owes the senator an apology for that because the senator is not lying about her record,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told MSNBC. “He’s talking about her record. He’s talking about her practices. She obviously doesn’t like it, but that doesn’t make it lying because you don’t like it.”

    As far as I can tell, Hillary and Bernie have different ideas of what "taking money from the fossil fuel industry" is. But I wouldn't say Bernie is lying.
    Joel Benenson, a senior adviser to Clinton’s campaign, said Sanders’ camp has repeatedly accused Clinton of accepting money from the fossil fuel industry.

    “She doesn’t. Neither does he,” Benenson told MSNBC. “Neither one of them takes money from the fossil fuel industry. Both of them have individuals who work in that industry and have given that money.”

    I do not know the exact sources of that money so it's a little tricky I think. If it's lobbyists and higher ups in those companies making substantial contributions like that, then yeah that's somewhat troubling. But then again, Sanders too has received 50k. If it's just people who work in those companies, it's a big who cares other than the candidates yelling at each other about it. I am very unclear on if their money came from different places or what.

    Of course, then there's this:
    According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Clinton has received more than $330,000 from donors with ties to the oil and gas industry, while Sanders has gotten more than $53,000. Accepting contributions directly from the industry would violate election law.

    Greenpeace reports that Clinton has received more than $4.5 million in total from oil, gas and coal lobbyists, bundlers to her campaign and allied super PAC.

    So an oil company can't give directly to a candidate, but their members can. If their members are giving a substantial amount, does that count as "receiving money from the fossil fuel industry" or not?

    Campaign finance!

    You do realize that I am an oil company member and have donated to both Hillary and Sanders, right?

    Does that mean that I'm trying to put them in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry?

    I ate an engineer
    Surfpossum
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    If you haven't sent a picture of an oil barrel and a list of demands along with every donation I don't think you're doing it right.

    ArdolNightDragon
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics
    Right.

    Given an opportunity to comment on how the anti-abortion movement is not limited to Trump and has in fact been making real and effective progress at eroding abortion rights, he instead used that time to complain about the media being addicted to Trump.

    Clinton has rightfully been pointing out, repeatedly, since then that Trump said it, Cruz voted for it, and Kasich enacted it (that's a PP meme but she's been saying similar).

    Everything's an opportunity and how you use it indicates your priorities.

    if you want to say that he placed insufficient emphasis on the portion of his answer where he made it clear he supports access to abortion that's fine

    that is however not what the clinton campaign is claiming he said
    Is Ted Cruz even further out on this issue than Donald Trump is?

    SANDERS: Well, you -- you know, you're living in crazy world there. And that is why, uh, you know, the Republican Party, if they continue in this direction, will be, as I mentioned a moment ago, a fringe party.

    Uh, look, they have nothing to say. All they can appeal is to a small number of people who feel very rabid, very rabid about a particular issue, whether it's abortion or maybe whether it's gay marriage. That is their constituency. They have nothing of substance.
    That is absolutely dismissive of the actual real damage that's been and is in the process of being done.

    It's not a couple of fringe crazies, it is a concerted effort that is actually accomplishing things and to dismiss it is to ignore it.

    Now, I don't think Sanders wants to dismiss it or ignore it, but someone who feels really strongly about the issue would leap onto this opportunity.

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  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    If you haven't sent a picture of an oil barrel and a list of demands along with every donation I don't think you're doing it right.

    They don't put oil in barrels, actually. Those barrels cost more than a barrel-volume of oil.

    I ate an engineer
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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Well I would guess you'd probably support legislation that would benefit your industry, given that it would in turn benefit you. But no, that's not a guarantee and it doesn't mean you're attempting to corrupt anyone.

    I thought it was interesting and wanted to bring it up for discussion, not accuse you of ruining democracy.

    Neither of them are necessarily wrong here, because it seems like they are interpreting things differently. Although personally I don't think what Bernie is saying is a lie. It might be considered intentionally misleading, although personally I don't think so. Do you?

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    I dunno, are you an executive that donated a hundred thousand or so?

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Well I would guess you'd probably support legislation that would benefit your industry, given that it would in turn benefit you. But no, that's not a guarantee and it doesn't mean you're attempting to corrupt anyone.

    I thought it was interesting and wanted to bring it up for discussion, not accuse you of ruining democracy.

    Neither of them are necessarily wrong here, because it seems like they are interpreting things differently. Although personally I don't think what Bernie is saying is a lie. It might be considered intentionally misleading, although personally I don't think so. Do you?

    Fuck no.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Why do you think this is a controversial stance?

    4/1/2016

    Original%252520Oh%252520You%252521%25255B5%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800

    Kadoken
  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Hillary is only winning because she got more votes. I know this is not a popular opinion, and if you feel that I'm being out of line, go ahead and report me. But it needed to be said.

    Why do you think this is a controversial stance?

    4/1/2016

    Original%252520Oh%252520You%252521%25255B5%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800

    latest?cb=20140315163520

    I ate an engineer
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    they really don't

    heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics
    Right.

    Given an opportunity to comment on how the anti-abortion movement is not limited to Trump and has in fact been making real and effective progress at eroding abortion rights, he instead used that time to complain about the media being addicted to Trump.

    Clinton has rightfully been pointing out, repeatedly, since then that Trump said it, Cruz voted for it, and Kasich enacted it (that's a PP meme but she's been saying similar).

    Everything's an opportunity and how you use it indicates your priorities.

    if you want to say that he placed insufficient emphasis on the portion of his answer where he made it clear he supports access to abortion that's fine

    that is however not what the clinton campaign is claiming he said

    No, what they are saying is that he doesn't consider it a serious issue. And when his response to Maddow pointing out that all the Republican candidates have extreme positions on the topic is to say that it's just a fringe topic appealing to a small contingent of people (the expansion of TRAP laws across the US belies that) and then move into a complaint that the media focuses on what Trump says instead of serious issues, they have a point.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Well I would guess you'd probably support legislation that would benefit your industry, given that it would in turn benefit you. But no, that's not a guarantee and it doesn't mean you're attempting to corrupt anyone.

    I thought it was interesting and wanted to bring it up for discussion, not accuse you of ruining democracy.

    Neither of them are necessarily wrong here, because it seems like they are interpreting things differently. Although personally I don't think what Bernie is saying is a lie. It might be considered intentionally misleading, although personally I don't think so. Do you?

    I think it's clearly intended to do what Clinton keeps pointing out he's trying to do: intentionally implying these things make her a corrupt shill of Big <insert here>.

    SurfpossumGnome-Interruptusjmcdonald
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Sanders had no intention of saying that abortion isn't a serious issue, but he absolutely wrapped his way back around there. Like cartoon swinging for the fences and spinning around style. It's not out of line with his missteps on non-economic issues in the past, and I'm really not prone to giving him the benefit of the doubt any more when he pivots from an issue important to people who aren't Bernie Sanders to the issues that are important to Bernie Sanders.

    Questioned directly on the matter I have no doubts he supports abortion access. It'd be great if he didn't suggest that asking Trump about the minimum wage was important but talking about the right wing's reliably regressive views on women's health is somehow just losing sight of what matters in a media spectacle.

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