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The Democratic Primary: Will Never End
Elki
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
The Democratic primary is happening to many people, and it will continue to happen. Do not fight it or despair. Resign, and accept that the Democratic primary will keep happening to you.
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What context? You got served up a nice softball, and you whiffed.
Since I think he's popular enough to merit some consideration of that.
On things that aren't terrible and aren't implausible for Hillary to support, Hillary could at least shift the focus on her minimum wage proposal to $15+ in high CoL areas instead of $12 nationally, and could strengthen her cheap education proposal. She could also soften her stance on foreign policy in comparison to whoever the Republican is, even if it is only by contrasting "Violence should be an option, but not the first resort" with "Fuck yeah, violence" instead of Sanders "violence should be a last resort" (all very, very rough sketches of their policy).
There's no way she's going to support Single Payer or go anti-Free Trade.
Hilarious in that his campaign is out there with the bullshit about her being supported by the fossil fuel lobby when it doesn't even make up an actual % of her funding like seriously its less than 1.
pleasepaypreacher.net
clinton's campaign implies that Sanders believes access to abortion is not a 'serious issue,' which is not at all what he said
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-exposes-truth-of-anti-abortion-politics-656239171633
Because its not just what Trump believes, its what the GOP believes. He said it bluntly, but its party line by the GOP.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Bernie Sanders says the quippy made-for-tv soundbite "More democracy in the Democratic primary" (or whatever), then follows up talking about how Supers should swap to him because he's "more electable", which would be undermining the democratic process.
So, uh, yeah, fuck that hypocritical sequence of noises he produced.
You're right in that he didn't say it exactly. But his comments sure do come across saying that.
This is why optics are important, Maddow's softball turned into weak spot for Hillary to hit.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-apology-221457
As far as I can tell, Hillary and Bernie have different ideas of what "taking money from the fossil fuel industry" is. But I wouldn't say Bernie is lying.
I do not know the exact sources of that money so it's a little tricky I think. If it's lobbyists and higher ups in those companies making substantial contributions like that, then yeah that's somewhat troubling. But then again, Sanders too has received 50k. If it's just people who work in those companies, it's a big who cares other than the candidates yelling at each other about it. I am very unclear on if their money came from different places or what.
Of course, then there's this:
So an oil company can't give directly to a candidate, but their members can. If their members are giving a substantial amount, does that count as "receiving money from the fossil fuel industry" or not?
Campaign finance!
The GOP isn't mad at the content of Trump's statements. They're mad that he made the subtext text. Which is why Sanders' dismissal is a problem.
heard in the *gasp* context of the interview, it's clear that what he's really saying is that donald trump's various pronouncements are not serious topics
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
There's a narrative that Hillary is only winning because [thing] instead of just getting more votes, and I don't like seeing him encourage it.
Except again what he was saying was the actual right wing belief on abortion without the filters. And that's what Rachel was asking him about, and that's what he went back to stump about economic issues and then says they aren't discussing serious issues.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Given an opportunity to comment on how the anti-abortion movement is not limited to Trump and has in fact been making real and effective progress at eroding abortion rights, he instead used that time to complain about the media being addicted to Trump.
Clinton has rightfully been pointing out, repeatedly, since then that Trump said it, Cruz voted for it, and Kasich enacted it (that's a PP meme but she's been saying similar).
Everything's an opportunity and how you use it indicates your priorities.
Yes? I mean in the same way the team that scores more points is the victor in a sporting event?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Right, she's not winning because of them. But if Bernie somehow managed to swing them all at the moment it would put him ahead of her, so they can still be the determining factor in the campaign.
I don't think we really need them, because all they do is mislead and confuse most people.
Why do you think this is a controversial stance?
Clinton's point is that Donald Trump's comments on abortion are a serious topic.
And the gradual erosion of abortion rights across the US suggests that she is correct on that front imo.
Hillary is only winning in the states that she's winning, though. If you look back at the results, you'll find that she didn't win any state where Bernie had more support.
if you want to say that he placed insufficient emphasis on the portion of his answer where he made it clear he supports access to abortion that's fine
that is however not what the clinton campaign is claiming he said
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
woah
4/1/2016
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
You do realize that I am an oil company member and have donated to both Hillary and Sanders, right?
Does that mean that I'm trying to put them in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry?
It's not a couple of fringe crazies, it is a concerted effort that is actually accomplishing things and to dismiss it is to ignore it.
Now, I don't think Sanders wants to dismiss it or ignore it, but someone who feels really strongly about the issue would leap onto this opportunity.
They don't put oil in barrels, actually. Those barrels cost more than a barrel-volume of oil.
I thought it was interesting and wanted to bring it up for discussion, not accuse you of ruining democracy.
Neither of them are necessarily wrong here, because it seems like they are interpreting things differently. Although personally I don't think what Bernie is saying is a lie. It might be considered intentionally misleading, although personally I don't think so. Do you?
Fuck no.
No, what they are saying is that he doesn't consider it a serious issue. And when his response to Maddow pointing out that all the Republican candidates have extreme positions on the topic is to say that it's just a fringe topic appealing to a small contingent of people (the expansion of TRAP laws across the US belies that) and then move into a complaint that the media focuses on what Trump says instead of serious issues, they have a point.
I think it's clearly intended to do what Clinton keeps pointing out he's trying to do: intentionally implying these things make her a corrupt shill of Big <insert here>.
Questioned directly on the matter I have no doubts he supports abortion access. It'd be great if he didn't suggest that asking Trump about the minimum wage was important but talking about the right wing's reliably regressive views on women's health is somehow just losing sight of what matters in a media spectacle.