So, they've still done nothing to address the RNG upon RNG upon RNG issue, and the only source for reliable upgrading outside of the DZ is still to just grind the boring ass Incursion for 30-40 minutes, which even then guarantees one 204 weapon, which has a 99.9% chance of being awful. Sweet.
Simpsonia on
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DietarySupplementStill not approved by the FDADublin, OHRegistered Userregular
If you go to the site URL in that loot update post, the agent on the right is holding an AA-12. shotgun. I... don't think those are in the game yet? At least I haven't seen one...
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
If you go to the site URL in that loot update post, the agent on the right is holding an AA-12. shotgun. I... don't think those are in the game yet? At least I haven't seen one...
I'm more worried than excited, though. Haven't got time to actually watch the live streams but I'm already worried about the PvE side of things getting hidden traps like:
S&D looks like it's designed purely to draw out playing time, reusing the old encounters. Don't forget these are tuned for "new level 30 agents".
Consider the fact that each S&D reward 1 Intel Token (InT)Target Intel (TI) or 2 InTTI if critical, and clearing the whole district rewards another 2, but each daily HVT costs 5-15, weeklys cost 60 (WTF). In the end we're gonna have to farm anywhere from 3-8 trash encounters to buy the chance at one HVT, need 30 S&Ds to get one HRT.
Basically, 30 S&D fresh 30 encounters to just get a shot at an HRT! If it takes us 5 minutes to do each S&D, it means we have to spend close to 2.5 hours clearing fresh level 30 content per HRT. This is basically what the DZ is like at the moment: faceroll through endless meaningless weak trash to get a shot at the bosses.
It's also entirely possible we can only complete one HVT per day and one HRT per week. So that's 7 HVT+1 HRT = on average 65 S&Ds per week. So at 5-10 minutes per S&D, we spend about 5-10 hours on S&D per week.
And there's no mention of whether InTs are capped. They could very well be capped at 60 for all we know.
The HVT/HRT system is far from the free roam PvE people have been asking for. HRTs will basically be for people who can't do Incursions challenge mode, since it only gives "a chance at 240", but Incursions cm guarantees a 240.
Do 30 faceroll S&D missions to get a chance at 240 (wiping means you have to redo the 30 S&D missions). Or attempt Incursions cm (i.e. killing waves and waves of trash dropping nothing) for an hour but get guaranteed 240 if you can beat it. That's basically what it comes down to.
But otherwise the HVT/HRT will act as padding for PvE players who don't want to go into the DZ. There's now something we can do besides endlessly farming Incursion, even if that something isn't rewarding anything worth shit (actually, if the S&D targets can drop purples and HEs then they may be good for farming mats). Still better than nothing, but that's all there is about it.
Finally, the core problem of loot isn't addressed. The core problem is how a high gearscore (say 204 weapon) piece could roll worse base stats than a low gearscore (say 182) piece. Yes, loot needs to drop, but dropping garbage isn't much more rewarding than dropping nothing. Otherwise looking at the new loot distribution I'm quite happy.
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
With update 1.2: Conflict on the horizon we have some exciting information regarding loot drops we would like to share with you.
Our previous efforts were aimed at shifting the focus of acquiring loot away from crafting and towards loot drops. While we were able to shift the best loot away from crafting, update 1.1 was only the first step. Update 1.2 is the continuation of our plans that will place an even stronger emphasis on loot drops.
Looting: The End Game Challenge
Gearing up when you reach end game at level 30 is a challenging task as the current progression path is unclear and specific rewards are limited to activities you may not be interested in. This overall generates a less rewarding and enjoyable experience. Players are then forced to turn to crafting as a main source of end game gear, which as we explained in our previous article, is something we want to move away from. With update 1.2, we want to add a layer of consistency between activities so you can obtain stronger gear from the content that you enjoy the most.
To achieve this, we have looked into the following:
• Loot drops do not feel rewarding due to rare upgrades and low Gear Score.
• Sources of the best gear currently limited to Challenge mode Incursion.
• Crafting is still the best source of 204 weapons as loot drops are rare.
• Dark Zone drops often do not match the Gear Score of the player.
• Supply drops in the Dark Zone are underwhelming.
Adding and Improving Activities
With update 1.2 we want to make loot more fun! To do this we will be more generous overall, provide clear progression steps, allow more diverse gameplay options to obtain the best loot, and make the Dark Zone more consistent to the Gear Score of the player.
Open World
Let’s kick it off by talking about the Open World. In our last Intelligence Annex we introduced Search and Destroy and High Value Targets missions that offer a new way for players to acquire good gear. If you want more information about these features check out the full article! Each High Value Target will provide a reward, but the main focus is the loot that drops from the named NPCs:
• High Value Target (Daily)
• 1x 182 High End or 214 Gear Set
• chance for 1x 191 Gear Set
• High Value Target (Weekly)
• 1x 182 High End or 214 Gear Set
• chance for 1x 214 Gear Set
• High Risk Target (Weekly)
• 1x 204 High End or 1x 214 Gear Set
• chance for 1x 240 Gear Set
These missions will follow a similar line of progression and their reward will coincide directly with the rank of the mission. They will not only provide an additional stepping stone for gearing up that will allow you to take on tougher challenges, but the most difficult ones will reward you with the best quality gear in the game.
Main Missions
We are making significant changes to the loot that drops from Hard Mode and Challenge Mode main missions. Every time you complete them you will receive:
• Hard Mode (Boss Drop)
• 1x 163 High End
• Hard Mode (Mission Reward)
• 1x 163 High End
• Challenge Mode (Boss Drop)
• 2x 182 High End
• 1x 182 High End or 214 Gear Set
• chance for 1x 191 Gear Set
• Challenge Mode (Mission Reward)
• 1x 182 High End
This change allows for players to have a more concrete source of gear to prepare for the higher brackets in the Dark Zone and Hard Mode Incursions.
Incursions
We have also made some significant changes to the way you receive loot from Incursions. Every time you clear it, you will now receive an item relevant to the difficultly you complete it on. In update 1.2 you will receive:
• Hard Mode (Boss Drop)
• 1x 204 High End Weapon
• 1x 214 Gear Set
• 182/204 High End or 214/240 Gear Set
• Hard Mode (Weekly Reward)
• 1x 204 High End Weapon
• 1x 214 Gear Set
• Challenge Mode (Boss Drop)
• 1x 204 High End Weapon
• 1x 240 Gear Set
• 1x 204 High End or 240 Gear Set
• Challenge Mode (Weekly Reward)
• 1x 204 High End Weapon
• 1x 240 Gear Set
The weekly reward allows you to obtain a guaranteed weapon once a week per character as well as additional loot drops. These changes allow players to more effectively farm the Incursion to either obtain more gear to beat it on Challenge mode, or hunt for those really min-maxed Gear Sets with the perfect attribute combination.
Dark Zone
Adding rewarding Open World activities and changing the Incursion loot drops aren't the only things we are doing. The Dark Zone is a huge part of the overall experience and it's crucial that it receives the same generous loot philosophy we are applying elsewhere.
The loot you pick up should feel more rewarding and assist your progression through the Dark Zone. As you collect better loot you will move to higher named zones in the Dark Zone as well as eventually progressing into a new Gear Score bracket. To help this, we have made the following changes to loot drops in both the 0-161 Gear Score and 162-200 Gear score brackets:
• Named NPC Level 30 (DZ01 and DZ02)
• 1x 163 High End or 191 Gear Set
• Named NPC Level 31 (DZ03 and DZ04)
• 1x 163/182 High End or 191/214 Gear Set
• Named NPC Level 32 (DZ05 and DZ06
• 1x 163/182/204 High End or 191/214/240 Gear Set
Additionally, with the introduction of a 201+ Gear Score Dark Zone bracket comes better loot opportunities. Encounters will be extremely difficult so it’s very important that the rewards reflect this. Players in this bracket already have exceptional gear, making it difficult to find upgrades. Finding those rare upgrades will be made easier in this bracket. The quality of equipment you find is directly related to the enemy level for named NPCs and Dark Zone named zone for Supply drops. The loot drops in 1.2 for the 201+ Gear Score bracket are as follows:
• Named NPC Level 32 (DZ01 and DZ02)
• 1x 182/204 High End or 214/240 Gear Set
• Named NPC Level 33 (DZ03 and DZ04)
• 1x 182/204 High End or 214/240 Gear Set
• Named NPC Level 34 (DZ05 and DZ06)
• 1x 204 High End or 240 Gear Set
Supply drops are getting a similar treatment in terms of rewards. They should provide rewards that scale with the difficulty of the NPC’s guarding them and the limited number of them that drop down. The Supply Drops will scale with Dark Zone Gear Score bracket and named zone. The Supply Drop rewards are as follows for the Gear Score 0-161 and 162-200 bracket:
• DZ01 and DZ02
• 1x 163/182 High End
• chance for 191 Gear Set
• DZ03 and DZ04
• 1x 163/182 High End
• chance for 191/214 Gear Set
• DZ05 and DZ06
• 1x 182/204 High End
• chance for 214 Gear Set
Similarly, the Supply drops in the Gear Score 201+ bracket are:
• DZ01 and DZ02
• 1x 182/204 High End
• chance for 214/240 Gear Set
• DZ03 and DZ04
• 1x 182/204 High End
• chance for 214/240 Gear Set
• DZ05 and DZ06
• 1x 204 High End
• chance for 240 Gear Set
Conclusion
Let’s recap what we’ve discussed:
• Adding another source of high quality loot for the Open World
• Increasing mission rewards on Hard Mode and Challenge Mode main missions significantly
• Adding guaranteed 204 weapon drops to the Incursions weekly
• Clearing Hard Mode or Challenge Mode Incursions will now reward you with a loot drop relevant to the difficulty every time
• Revamp the loot drops in all Dark Zone Gear Score brackets to provide a clear line of progression
• Significantly increasing the quality of loot from Supply Drops
These changes will create a more clear line of progression and make loot drops feel more rewarding.
Making adjustments in an online game like this one is no easy task but we are committed to improving the overall experience with every step we take. Your discussions are extremely valuable to us so make sure to keep them coming, we are always reading!
-The Division Dev Team
Wow, that's actually really nice.
So when's 1.2 dropping...?
This coming Tuesday 5/24.
Also PSA for PvE players. The High Value and High Risk Targets will require areas of the PvE map to be cleared of side missions and medical/tech/security encounters. They'd said that if only some areas of the map are cleared, you can do missions in those areas. But for maximum utility of the new HVT missions, you'll want your map completely cleared (leaving Intel such as phone calls and incident reports is fine, just no remaining unplaced missions and encounters).
I'm more worried than excited, though. Haven't got time to actually watch the live streams but I'm already worried about the PvE side of things getting hidden traps like:
S&D looks like it's designed purely to draw out playing time, reusing the old encounters. Don't forget these are tuned for "new level 30 agents".
Consider the fact that each S&D reward 1 Intel Token (InT)Target Intel (TI) or 2 InTTI if critical, and clearing the whole district rewards another 2, but each daily HVT costs 5-15, weeklys cost 60 (WTF). In the end we're gonna have to farm anywhere from 3-8 trash encounters to buy the chance at one HVT, need 30 S&Ds to get one HRT.
Basically, 30 S&D fresh 30 encounters to just get a shot at an HRT! If it takes us 5 minutes to do each S&D, it means we have to spend close to 2.5 hours clearing fresh level 30 content per HRT. This is basically what the DZ is like at the moment: faceroll through endless meaningless weak trash to get a shot at the bosses.
It's also entirely possible we can only complete one HVT per day and one HRT per week. So that's 7 HVT+1 HRT = on average 65 S&Ds per week. So at 5-10 minutes per S&D, we spend about 5-10 hours on S&D per week.
And there's no mention of whether InTs are capped. They could very well be capped at 60 for all we know.
The HVT/HRT system is far from the free roam PvE people have been asking for. HRTs will basically be for people who can't do Incursions challenge mode, since it only gives "a chance at 240", but Incursions cm guarantees a 240.
Do 30 faceroll S&D missions to get a chance at 240 (wiping means you have to redo the 30 S&D missions). Or attempt Incursions cm (i.e. killing waves and waves of trash dropping nothing) for an hour but get guaranteed 240 if you can beat it. That's basically what it comes down to.
But otherwise the HVT/HRT will act as padding for PvE players who don't want to go into the DZ. There's now something we can do besides endlessly farming Incursion, even if that something isn't rewarding anything worth shit (actually, if the S&D targets can drop purples and HEs then they may be good for farming mats). Still better than nothing, but that's all there is about it.
Finally, the core problem of loot isn't addressed. The core problem is how a high gearscore (say 204 weapon) piece could roll worse base stats than a low gearscore (say 182) piece. Yes, loot needs to drop, but dropping garbage isn't much more rewarding than dropping nothing. Otherwise looking at the new loot distribution I'm quite happy.
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
I don't know what people expect from these types of games. You murder computer bad guys until you get cool stuff and then you agonize over sidegrades and cosmetic upgrades while griping about the fact that the game doesn't give you your new toys for breathing or walking or whatever. Diablo. Borderlands. Path of Exile. Destiny. The Division. They all use the same formula and they all suffered from months of players groaning about end game and loot tables.
Months and patches later we get a system that makes the loyal players happy and rewards new and possibly returning players with a system polished from months of brutal "testing".
Diablo was good. Then it sucked. Now it's good again.
Destiny was meh, then it was awful. Now it's great.
Point is, it takes time for loot volcano games to adequately reward players for skill, not just time investment.
Meanwhile, we wait.
"Well! We'll see what happens when the player base abandons--blah blah blah" we get it. Yes. Rabble rabble.
I'm more worried than excited, though. Haven't got time to actually watch the live streams but I'm already worried about the PvE side of things getting hidden traps like:
S&D looks like it's designed purely to draw out playing time, reusing the old encounters. Don't forget these are tuned for "new level 30 agents".
Consider the fact that each S&D reward 1 Intel Token (InT)Target Intel (TI) or 2 InTTI if critical, and clearing the whole district rewards another 2, but each daily HVT costs 5-15, weeklys cost 60 (WTF). In the end we're gonna have to farm anywhere from 3-8 trash encounters to buy the chance at one HVT, need 30 S&Ds to get one HRT.
Basically, 30 S&D fresh 30 encounters to just get a shot at an HRT! If it takes us 5 minutes to do each S&D, it means we have to spend close to 2.5 hours clearing fresh level 30 content per HRT. This is basically what the DZ is like at the moment: faceroll through endless meaningless weak trash to get a shot at the bosses.
It's also entirely possible we can only complete one HVT per day and one HRT per week. So that's 7 HVT+1 HRT = on average 65 S&Ds per week. So at 5-10 minutes per S&D, we spend about 5-10 hours on S&D per week.
And there's no mention of whether InTs are capped. They could very well be capped at 60 for all we know.
The HVT/HRT system is far from the free roam PvE people have been asking for. HRTs will basically be for people who can't do Incursions challenge mode, since it only gives "a chance at 240", but Incursions cm guarantees a 240.
Do 30 faceroll S&D missions to get a chance at 240 (wiping means you have to redo the 30 S&D missions). Or attempt Incursions cm (i.e. killing waves and waves of trash dropping nothing) for an hour but get guaranteed 240 if you can beat it. That's basically what it comes down to.
But otherwise the HVT/HRT will act as padding for PvE players who don't want to go into the DZ. There's now something we can do besides endlessly farming Incursion, even if that something isn't rewarding anything worth shit (actually, if the S&D targets can drop purples and HEs then they may be good for farming mats). Still better than nothing, but that's all there is about it.
Finally, the core problem of loot isn't addressed. The core problem is how a high gearscore (say 204 weapon) piece could roll worse base stats than a low gearscore (say 182) piece. Yes, loot needs to drop, but dropping garbage isn't much more rewarding than dropping nothing. Otherwise looking at the new loot distribution I'm quite happy.
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
I don't know what people expect from these types of games. You murder computer bad guys until you get cool stuff and then you agonize over sidegrades and cosmetic upgrades while griping about the fact that the game doesn't give you your new toys for breathing or walking or whatever. Diablo. Borderlands. Path of Exile. Destiny. The Division. They all use the same formula and they all suffered from months of players groaning about end game and loot tables.
Months and patches later we get a system that makes the loyal players happy and rewards new and possibly returning players with a system polished from months of brutal "testing".
Diablo was good. Then it sucked. Now it's good again.
Destiny was meh, then it was awful. Now it's great.
Point is, it takes time for loot volcano games to adequately reward players for skill, not just time investment.
Meanwhile, we wait.
"Well! We'll see what happens when the player base abandons--blah blah blah" we get it. Yes. Rabble rabble.
You CAN just like... copy one of the games that got it right. You don't have to pretend it's 2003 again. That's effing dumb.
Predator's could be good in PVP, except that, apparently, you can get 100% bleed resist on kneepads (bleed makes it so when afflicted you can no longer run). Still good for NPC Shotgunners though I would guess. Even with the Sentry nerf though, I can see it still being the best when people adapt and go to a (SASG/M870) and SMG combo. One shot with the SG to apply 3 marks, SMG to finish off. As it is, the M870 with Sentry can 1-2 shot almost every player in the DZ. I'm betting the SASG though with rate of fire will be a lot better for PVE.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Hunter's Faith just seems weak compared to what exists.
Lone Star is actually kinda funny. You could equip two LMGs and just never stop shooting ever, it would be amazing.
Final Measure is gimmicky for groups who are bad at dodging or using weird strats that have weaknesses against getting flushed.
Predator's would be a contender now for people who still using SMGs if for the fact that the 3 set doesn't work with it and is kinda weird, 'cause it's not like ARs really need Optimal Range. The Bleed could be really good regardless.
Final Measure is gimmicky for groups who are bad at dodging or using weird strats that have weaknesses against getting flushed.
Predator's would be a contender now for people who still using SMGs if for the fact that the 3 set doesn't work with it and is kinda weird, 'cause it's not like ARs really need Optimal Range. The Bleed could be really good regardless.
Final Measure's 2 piece +50% Exotic Damage Resistance and 3 piece +15% Protection from Elites could be super-useful, particularly for PvE players. In fact I'm considering switching out my 2 pieces of Tactician's Authority for 2 pieces of Final Measure. I probably have the most trouble with Cleaner bosses in the DZ, and I think this could help a lot. But I agree that the full set seems very gimmicky.
Also agree that the Optimal Range bonus on Predators seems a bit odd.
I'm more worried than excited, though. Haven't got time to actually watch the live streams but I'm already worried about the PvE side of things getting hidden traps like:
S&D looks like it's designed purely to draw out playing time, reusing the old encounters. Don't forget these are tuned for "new level 30 agents".
Consider the fact that each S&D reward 1 Intel Token (InT)Target Intel (TI) or 2 InTTI if critical, and clearing the whole district rewards another 2, but each daily HVT costs 5-15, weeklys cost 60 (WTF). In the end we're gonna have to farm anywhere from 3-8 trash encounters to buy the chance at one HVT, need 30 S&Ds to get one HRT.
Basically, 30 S&D fresh 30 encounters to just get a shot at an HRT! If it takes us 5 minutes to do each S&D, it means we have to spend close to 2.5 hours clearing fresh level 30 content per HRT. This is basically what the DZ is like at the moment: faceroll through endless meaningless weak trash to get a shot at the bosses.
It's also entirely possible we can only complete one HVT per day and one HRT per week. So that's 7 HVT+1 HRT = on average 65 S&Ds per week. So at 5-10 minutes per S&D, we spend about 5-10 hours on S&D per week.
And there's no mention of whether InTs are capped. They could very well be capped at 60 for all we know.
The HVT/HRT system is far from the free roam PvE people have been asking for. HRTs will basically be for people who can't do Incursions challenge mode, since it only gives "a chance at 240", but Incursions cm guarantees a 240.
Do 30 faceroll S&D missions to get a chance at 240 (wiping means you have to redo the 30 S&D missions). Or attempt Incursions cm (i.e. killing waves and waves of trash dropping nothing) for an hour but get guaranteed 240 if you can beat it. That's basically what it comes down to.
But otherwise the HVT/HRT will act as padding for PvE players who don't want to go into the DZ. There's now something we can do besides endlessly farming Incursion, even if that something isn't rewarding anything worth shit (actually, if the S&D targets can drop purples and HEs then they may be good for farming mats). Still better than nothing, but that's all there is about it.
Finally, the core problem of loot isn't addressed. The core problem is how a high gearscore (say 204 weapon) piece could roll worse base stats than a low gearscore (say 182) piece. Yes, loot needs to drop, but dropping garbage isn't much more rewarding than dropping nothing. Otherwise looking at the new loot distribution I'm quite happy.
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
I don't know what people expect from these types of games. You murder computer bad guys until you get cool stuff and then you agonize over sidegrades and cosmetic upgrades while griping about the fact that the game doesn't give you your new toys for breathing or walking or whatever. Diablo. Borderlands. Path of Exile. Destiny. The Division. They all use the same formula and they all suffered from months of players groaning about end game and loot tables.
Months and patches later we get a system that makes the loyal players happy and rewards new and possibly returning players with a system polished from months of brutal "testing".
Diablo was good. Then it sucked. Now it's good again.
Destiny was meh, then it was awful. Now it's great.
Point is, it takes time for loot volcano games to adequately reward players for skill, not just time investment.
Meanwhile, we wait.
"Well! We'll see what happens when the player base abandons--blah blah blah" we get it. Yes. Rabble rabble.
You CAN just like... copy one of the games that got it right. You don't have to pretend it's 2003 again. That's effing dumb.
No, you can't copy the games that got it right. They don't all have the same systems in place to reward players for skill, teamwork, and time investment. they're all extremely different all all had to go through their own growing pains. Saying a development team can just drag and drop some other game's loot and end-game nuances into the "Make It Go" folder under "bestsolution.exe" is incredibly naive and i know you're not stupid so there's no way you actually think that.
Lone Star is actually kinda funny. You could equip two LMGs and just never stop shooting ever, it would be amazing.
Ooh, they made a set just for me...
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
Final measure sounds hilarious I will be throwing all the grenades
I'd be tempted to collect pieces just to make some fights in challenge mode where there's tons of grenadiers hitting you at a choke point hilarious to watch.
I mean, I'd probably down a bunch of team mates due to friendly fire in the process but it would hilarious for me at least.
I'm more worried than excited, though. Haven't got time to actually watch the live streams but I'm already worried about the PvE side of things getting hidden traps like:
S&D looks like it's designed purely to draw out playing time, reusing the old encounters. Don't forget these are tuned for "new level 30 agents".
Consider the fact that each S&D reward 1 Intel Token (InT)Target Intel (TI) or 2 InTTI if critical, and clearing the whole district rewards another 2, but each daily HVT costs 5-15, weeklys cost 60 (WTF). In the end we're gonna have to farm anywhere from 3-8 trash encounters to buy the chance at one HVT, need 30 S&Ds to get one HRT.
Basically, 30 S&D fresh 30 encounters to just get a shot at an HRT! If it takes us 5 minutes to do each S&D, it means we have to spend close to 2.5 hours clearing fresh level 30 content per HRT. This is basically what the DZ is like at the moment: faceroll through endless meaningless weak trash to get a shot at the bosses.
It's also entirely possible we can only complete one HVT per day and one HRT per week. So that's 7 HVT+1 HRT = on average 65 S&Ds per week. So at 5-10 minutes per S&D, we spend about 5-10 hours on S&D per week.
And there's no mention of whether InTs are capped. They could very well be capped at 60 for all we know.
The HVT/HRT system is far from the free roam PvE people have been asking for. HRTs will basically be for people who can't do Incursions challenge mode, since it only gives "a chance at 240", but Incursions cm guarantees a 240.
Do 30 faceroll S&D missions to get a chance at 240 (wiping means you have to redo the 30 S&D missions). Or attempt Incursions cm (i.e. killing waves and waves of trash dropping nothing) for an hour but get guaranteed 240 if you can beat it. That's basically what it comes down to.
But otherwise the HVT/HRT will act as padding for PvE players who don't want to go into the DZ. There's now something we can do besides endlessly farming Incursion, even if that something isn't rewarding anything worth shit (actually, if the S&D targets can drop purples and HEs then they may be good for farming mats). Still better than nothing, but that's all there is about it.
Finally, the core problem of loot isn't addressed. The core problem is how a high gearscore (say 204 weapon) piece could roll worse base stats than a low gearscore (say 182) piece. Yes, loot needs to drop, but dropping garbage isn't much more rewarding than dropping nothing. Otherwise looking at the new loot distribution I'm quite happy.
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
I don't know what people expect from these types of games. You murder computer bad guys until you get cool stuff and then you agonize over sidegrades and cosmetic upgrades while griping about the fact that the game doesn't give you your new toys for breathing or walking or whatever. Diablo. Borderlands. Path of Exile. Destiny. The Division. They all use the same formula and they all suffered from months of players groaning about end game and loot tables.
Months and patches later we get a system that makes the loyal players happy and rewards new and possibly returning players with a system polished from months of brutal "testing".
Diablo was good. Then it sucked. Now it's good again.
Destiny was meh, then it was awful. Now it's great.
Point is, it takes time for loot volcano games to adequately reward players for skill, not just time investment.
Meanwhile, we wait.
"Well! We'll see what happens when the player base abandons--blah blah blah" we get it. Yes. Rabble rabble.
You CAN just like... copy one of the games that got it right. You don't have to pretend it's 2003 again. That's effing dumb.
No, you can't copy the games that got it right. They don't all have the same systems in place to reward players for skill, teamwork, and time investment. they're all extremely different all all had to go through their own growing pains. Saying a development team can just drag and drop some other game's loot and end-game nuances into the "Make It Go" folder under "bestsolution.exe" is incredibly naive and i know you're not stupid so there's no way you actually think that.
The mistakes they are making have nothing to do with that. A "mix of teamwork and time investment" has nothing to go with treasure chests dropping useless items guaranteed. Or double or triple RNG for some 8 pieces of gear being bullshit. Or doubling the price of crafting for bullshit reasons. Etc etc. None of this is new, they're just shitting the bed. How to make new gear good but not too good is, I agree, not something they can read crib notes for from another game. But delivering the gear TO the players is something of a solved issue.
+1
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I'm more worried than excited, though. Haven't got time to actually watch the live streams but I'm already worried about the PvE side of things getting hidden traps like:
S&D looks like it's designed purely to draw out playing time, reusing the old encounters. Don't forget these are tuned for "new level 30 agents".
Consider the fact that each S&D reward 1 Intel Token (InT)Target Intel (TI) or 2 InTTI if critical, and clearing the whole district rewards another 2, but each daily HVT costs 5-15, weeklys cost 60 (WTF). In the end we're gonna have to farm anywhere from 3-8 trash encounters to buy the chance at one HVT, need 30 S&Ds to get one HRT.
Basically, 30 S&D fresh 30 encounters to just get a shot at an HRT! If it takes us 5 minutes to do each S&D, it means we have to spend close to 2.5 hours clearing fresh level 30 content per HRT. This is basically what the DZ is like at the moment: faceroll through endless meaningless weak trash to get a shot at the bosses.
It's also entirely possible we can only complete one HVT per day and one HRT per week. So that's 7 HVT+1 HRT = on average 65 S&Ds per week. So at 5-10 minutes per S&D, we spend about 5-10 hours on S&D per week.
And there's no mention of whether InTs are capped. They could very well be capped at 60 for all we know.
The HVT/HRT system is far from the free roam PvE people have been asking for. HRTs will basically be for people who can't do Incursions challenge mode, since it only gives "a chance at 240", but Incursions cm guarantees a 240.
Do 30 faceroll S&D missions to get a chance at 240 (wiping means you have to redo the 30 S&D missions). Or attempt Incursions cm (i.e. killing waves and waves of trash dropping nothing) for an hour but get guaranteed 240 if you can beat it. That's basically what it comes down to.
But otherwise the HVT/HRT will act as padding for PvE players who don't want to go into the DZ. There's now something we can do besides endlessly farming Incursion, even if that something isn't rewarding anything worth shit (actually, if the S&D targets can drop purples and HEs then they may be good for farming mats). Still better than nothing, but that's all there is about it.
Finally, the core problem of loot isn't addressed. The core problem is how a high gearscore (say 204 weapon) piece could roll worse base stats than a low gearscore (say 182) piece. Yes, loot needs to drop, but dropping garbage isn't much more rewarding than dropping nothing. Otherwise looking at the new loot distribution I'm quite happy.
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
I don't know what people expect from these types of games. You murder computer bad guys until you get cool stuff and then you agonize over sidegrades and cosmetic upgrades while griping about the fact that the game doesn't give you your new toys for breathing or walking or whatever. Diablo. Borderlands. Path of Exile. Destiny. The Division. They all use the same formula and they all suffered from months of players groaning about end game and loot tables.
Months and patches later we get a system that makes the loyal players happy and rewards new and possibly returning players with a system polished from months of brutal "testing".
Diablo was good. Then it sucked. Now it's good again.
Destiny was meh, then it was awful. Now it's great.
Point is, it takes time for loot volcano games to adequately reward players for skill, not just time investment.
Meanwhile, we wait.
"Well! We'll see what happens when the player base abandons--blah blah blah" we get it. Yes. Rabble rabble.
You CAN just like... copy one of the games that got it right. You don't have to pretend it's 2003 again. That's effing dumb.
No, you can't copy the games that got it right. They don't all have the same systems in place to reward players for skill, teamwork, and time investment. they're all extremely different all all had to go through their own growing pains. Saying a development team can just drag and drop some other game's loot and end-game nuances into the "Make It Go" folder under "bestsolution.exe" is incredibly naive and i know you're not stupid so there's no way you actually think that.
The mistakes they are making have nothing to do with that. A "mix of teamwork and time investment" has nothing to go with treasure chests dropping useless items guaranteed. Or double or triple RNG for some 8 pieces of gear being bullshit. Or doubling the price of crafting for bullshit reasons. Etc etc. None of this is new, they're just shitting the bed. How to make new gear good but not too good is, I agree, not something they can read crib notes for from another game. But delivering the gear TO the players is something of a solved issue.
This is what happens when you have a former mobile game designer as one of your devs.
Just got my second level 30 today to be able to do two incursions a week.
A few days after they announce the next patch will allow you to farm incursion bosses -_-
Nothing stops you from farming now? Or do you mean patch will make a completed incursion always drop 2 set pieces, not having a weekly for one of them?
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Thanks to a spiffy new UI bug, I now have to restart the game every time I go in and out of the Dark Zone due to overlap problems.
The Division truly is a game about glitch hunting and bug finding.
Honestly, I'm not even sure why I care about this game at all anymore. Here's a hilarious list of bugs introduced with the new patch, including invisible walls preventing you from moving through areas you should be able to, player accounts completely missing, a double screen glitch if you use two monitors, banned accounts if you've been in a group with someone who hacked (even if you're innocent), and so much more!
Honestly, I'm not even sure why I care about this game at all anymore. Here's a hilarious list of bugs introduced with the new patch, including invisible walls preventing you from moving through areas you should be able to, player accounts completely missing, a double screen glitch if you use two monitors, banned accounts if you've been in a group with someone who hacked (even if you're innocent), and so much more!
One day, we will be able to read a fascinating postmortem of this game's development. I am pretty confident at this point that the game I really liked was created by a different set of developers or studios than the team charged with running the post-game.
Which is okay. This isn't Destiny. I got a full single player experience out of it, had some fun with the early level Dark Zone, and ran enough coop missions to realize that grinding the same missions over and over again for loot isn't something I want out of gaming.
My only real regret was letting my early euphoria push me into buying the Season Pass. If the DLC harkens back to the original game, though, I'll be happy going back to it.
Honestly, I'm not even sure why I care about this game at all anymore. Here's a hilarious list of bugs introduced with the new patch, including invisible walls preventing you from moving through areas you should be able to, player accounts completely missing, a double screen glitch if you use two monitors, banned accounts if you've been in a group with someone who hacked (even if you're innocent), and so much more!
One day, we will be able to read a fascinating postmortem of this game's development. I am pretty confident at this point that the game I really liked was created by a different set of developers or studios than the team charged with running the post-game.
Which is okay. This isn't Destiny. I got a full single player experience out of it, had some fun with the early level Dark Zone, and ran enough coop missions to realize that grinding the same missions over and over again for loot isn't something I want out of gaming.
My only real regret was letting my early euphoria push me into buying the Season Pass. If the DLC harkens back to the original game, though, I'll be happy going back to it.
But...that's Destiny! :tell_me_more:
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Honestly, I'm not even sure why I care about this game at all anymore. Here's a hilarious list of bugs introduced with the new patch, including invisible walls preventing you from moving through areas you should be able to, player accounts completely missing, a double screen glitch if you use two monitors, banned accounts if you've been in a group with someone who hacked (even if you're innocent), and so much more!
One day, we will be able to read a fascinating postmortem of this game's development. I am pretty confident at this point that the game I really liked was created by a different set of developers or studios than the team charged with running the post-game.
Which is okay. This isn't Destiny. I got a full single player experience out of it, had some fun with the early level Dark Zone, and ran enough coop missions to realize that grinding the same missions over and over again for loot isn't something I want out of gaming.
My only real regret was letting my early euphoria push me into buying the Season Pass. If the DLC harkens back to the original game, though, I'll be happy going back to it.
But...that's Destiny! :tell_me_more:
Which is why I deeply regretted Destiny on first purchase, but ended up enjoying it when I came back after the Taken King got good reviews. Even then, my enjoyment basically lasted through the new content. I didn't come back for the gear grinding.
Yup, played this game for the content, and did a few grinding runs with the PA crew, but doing the same run, killing the same bosses in DZ05-DZ06 got a bit stale, so I haven't played.
I'm hoping that when the first DLC drops, the game is in a much better state then.
It's so weird how they planned all of the game. The pre-order bonus gear, that had it not been glitched, was good for 3-4 levels, which would have lasted you a whopping 1 hour of game time at the most.
It's so weird how they planned all of the game. The pre-order bonus gear, that had it not been glitched, was good for 3-4 levels, which would have lasted you a whopping 1 hour of game time at the most.
I think the only pre-order/exclusive item in any game that I've ever played that has lasted through the entirety of a playtime was the self-filling water canteen in Fallout.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
It doesn't even have to last the entire game, like in Battlefront you get some unlocks earlier. But an item that's useless as soon as you play past the first two missions?
It's so weird how they planned all of the game. The pre-order bonus gear, that had it not been glitched, was good for 3-4 levels, which would have lasted you a whopping 1 hour of game time at the most.
I think the only pre-order/exclusive item in any game that I've ever played that has lasted through the entirety of a playtime was the self-filling water canteen in Fallout.
My favorite pre-order/backer bonus item was Divinity Original Sin's talking underwear. It added nothing to the game except occasional sarcastic commentary.
I think Metal Gear Rising Revengance had the Fox sword as a preorder bonus. It was basically the best sword since it had a chance to dismember some enemies in one hit.
finally fired this up today... I think the new system in the PVE area is a start. Get a mission from a safe house, kill a few stronger enemies (though they would be a joke to anyone decently geared) and collect points to unlock HVT. a few soloable ones, a few not so soloable ones but I assume with decent gear even those are a breeze.
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Should be new weapon type coming in 1.2
So 5-10 or more hours a week of mind-numbingly boring faceroll content just to get a chance at 240 items, if you want to avoid the DZ, and can't do CM Incursion. Yep, sounds about on par for Massive... sigh.
I stopped playing weeks ago, but I keep trolling because I really really want to like this game. Massive just makes it so fucking hard. Every step forward comes with a step back.
This coming Tuesday 5/24.
Also PSA for PvE players. The High Value and High Risk Targets will require areas of the PvE map to be cleared of side missions and medical/tech/security encounters. They'd said that if only some areas of the map are cleared, you can do missions in those areas. But for maximum utility of the new HVT missions, you'll want your map completely cleared (leaving Intel such as phone calls and incident reports is fine, just no remaining unplaced missions and encounters).
I don't know what people expect from these types of games. You murder computer bad guys until you get cool stuff and then you agonize over sidegrades and cosmetic upgrades while griping about the fact that the game doesn't give you your new toys for breathing or walking or whatever. Diablo. Borderlands. Path of Exile. Destiny. The Division. They all use the same formula and they all suffered from months of players groaning about end game and loot tables.
Months and patches later we get a system that makes the loyal players happy and rewards new and possibly returning players with a system polished from months of brutal "testing".
Diablo was good. Then it sucked. Now it's good again.
Destiny was meh, then it was awful. Now it's great.
Point is, it takes time for loot volcano games to adequately reward players for skill, not just time investment.
Meanwhile, we wait.
"Well! We'll see what happens when the player base abandons--blah blah blah" we get it. Yes. Rabble rabble.
You CAN just like... copy one of the games that got it right. You don't have to pretend it's 2003 again. That's effing dumb.
I'm beginning to think of the Origin ME3 connection issues fondly at this point
Edit: Heh, why are drones gonna bleed?
Lone Star is actually kinda funny. You could equip two LMGs and just never stop shooting ever, it would be amazing.
Final Measure is gimmicky for groups who are bad at dodging or using weird strats that have weaknesses against getting flushed.
Predator's would be a contender now for people who still using SMGs if for the fact that the 3 set doesn't work with it and is kinda weird, 'cause it's not like ARs really need Optimal Range. The Bleed could be really good regardless.
Final Measure's 2 piece +50% Exotic Damage Resistance and 3 piece +15% Protection from Elites could be super-useful, particularly for PvE players. In fact I'm considering switching out my 2 pieces of Tactician's Authority for 2 pieces of Final Measure. I probably have the most trouble with Cleaner bosses in the DZ, and I think this could help a lot. But I agree that the full set seems very gimmicky.
Also agree that the Optimal Range bonus on Predators seems a bit odd.
No, you can't copy the games that got it right. They don't all have the same systems in place to reward players for skill, teamwork, and time investment. they're all extremely different all all had to go through their own growing pains. Saying a development team can just drag and drop some other game's loot and end-game nuances into the "Make It Go" folder under "bestsolution.exe" is incredibly naive and i know you're not stupid so there's no way you actually think that.
WoW has been refining that for nearly 12 years, for example.
I get it's not a perfect 1:1, but I can see why people might be asking 'how is this a surprise?'
Ooh, they made a set just for me...
I'd be tempted to collect pieces just to make some fights in challenge mode where there's tons of grenadiers hitting you at a choke point hilarious to watch.
I mean, I'd probably down a bunch of team mates due to friendly fire in the process but it would hilarious for me at least.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
The mistakes they are making have nothing to do with that. A "mix of teamwork and time investment" has nothing to go with treasure chests dropping useless items guaranteed. Or double or triple RNG for some 8 pieces of gear being bullshit. Or doubling the price of crafting for bullshit reasons. Etc etc. None of this is new, they're just shitting the bed. How to make new gear good but not too good is, I agree, not something they can read crib notes for from another game. But delivering the gear TO the players is something of a solved issue.
This is what happens when you have a former mobile game designer as one of your devs.
A few days after they announce the next patch will allow you to farm incursion bosses -_-
The Division truly is a game about glitch hunting and bug finding.
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/4kt6t8/mega_bug_thread_post_12_update_240516/
One day, we will be able to read a fascinating postmortem of this game's development. I am pretty confident at this point that the game I really liked was created by a different set of developers or studios than the team charged with running the post-game.
Which is okay. This isn't Destiny. I got a full single player experience out of it, had some fun with the early level Dark Zone, and ran enough coop missions to realize that grinding the same missions over and over again for loot isn't something I want out of gaming.
My only real regret was letting my early euphoria push me into buying the Season Pass. If the DLC harkens back to the original game, though, I'll be happy going back to it.
But...that's Destiny! :tell_me_more:
Which is why I deeply regretted Destiny on first purchase, but ended up enjoying it when I came back after the Taken King got good reviews. Even then, my enjoyment basically lasted through the new content. I didn't come back for the gear grinding.
I'm hoping that when the first DLC drops, the game is in a much better state then.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I think the only pre-order/exclusive item in any game that I've ever played that has lasted through the entirety of a playtime was the self-filling water canteen in Fallout.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
My favorite pre-order/backer bonus item was Divinity Original Sin's talking underwear. It added nothing to the game except occasional sarcastic commentary.