As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

Panama Papers

BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
edited April 2016 in Debate and/or Discourse
Sued Deutsche just released millions of documents leaked from a law firm called Mossack Fonseca (Panama) which apparently deals with massive corruption, especially with offshore business and banking.

Background info on Mossack Fonseca from VICE (great read): http://www.vice.com/read/evil-llc-0000524-v21n12

Sued Deutsche: http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
ICIJ: https://panamapapers.icij.org/
The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/news/series/panama-papers
- A quarter of Iceland's cabinet members held offshore companies - even the current prime minister. Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson is suspected of having been influenced by personal interests in his fight against the banking crisis.
- Why Juan Pedro Damiani, founding member of the FIFA ethics committee, has come under his colleagues' scrutiny. The story of the football association´s king of shell companies.
- 3 sitting Presidents, 1 sitting Prime Minister, and even 1 sitting King, no one else but the King Salman himself. And 5 former Prime Ministers, 1 former President, and even 1 former Emir.

This has the potential to be huge, but more than likely won't amount to much unfortunately.

i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

Basar on
«13456712

Posts

  • Options
    SealSeal Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I feel like we should skip the cynicism, especially since we know next to no details at this point.

    Seal on
  • Options
    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Putin had people hiding 2 billion dollars in these accounts.

    That's just with this one company.

    What the fuck else is he hiding?

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
  • Options
    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • Options
    No Great NameNo Great Name FRAUD DETECTED Registered User regular
    So... Messi owns Wolf Cola?

    PSN: NoGreatName Steam:SirToons Twitch: SirToons
    sirtoons.png
  • Options
    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    Putin had people hiding 2 billion dollars in these accounts.

    That's just with this one company.

    What the fuck else is he hiding?

    Putin's ascent to power was based on corrupt politicians colluding with powerful KGB types to loot the corpse of the Soviet Union, so yeah, checks out.

  • Options
    BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
    Seal wrote: »
    I feel like we should skip the cynicism, especially since we know next to no details at this point.

    I hate to share such long form articles but this one details Putin's $2 billion pretty deep: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/panama-papers-secret-records-reveal-money-network-tied-to-vladimir-putin-1.2595527

    i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

  • Options
    BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
    I bet Sanders' campaign staff is digging pretty deep into the docs to find the letters H,I,L,L,A,R,Y together. Or even T,R,U,M,P.

    i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

  • Options
    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Other then Iceland though this doesn't seem to change the status quo all that much. The people on this list have always been corrupt, they're just also untouchable because they're leaders of corrupt countries. I've not heard any news about Western corporations or the like, and the law firm itself is panamaean.

    It doesn't seem like there's anything that actually can be done?

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Iceland's PM is probably going to be the first head of state taken down by this, given how that country reacted to the financial crisis in 2008.

    He walked out of an interview after questioned about his accounts, and opposition parties are preparing to file a no confidence vote when they reconvene.

    The truly insane thing is that if/when elections are held, there is a legitimate chance that the Pirate Party would hold a plurality of the vote.

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Basar wrote: »
    I bet Sanders' campaign staff is digging pretty deep into the docs to find the letters H,I,L,L,A,R,Y together. Or even T,R,U,M,P.

    My understanding is that (oddly enough), no Americans are implicated in this release.

    Current speculation is because of how the IRS taxes US citizens regardless of their current location, so banks opening accounts for Americans have to adhere to certain rules. Not to say that the sort of under-the-table banking such as these doesn't occur with Americans as well, but it probably happens that the bank in question is one of those which did not want to agree to those rules, so had a blanket policy of not accepting American clients.

  • Options
    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    So I think this kind of shoots down the "wikileaks is basically an arm of the Russian government" thing since it's implicated Putin.

    I ate an engineer
  • Options
    BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Basar wrote: »
    I bet Sanders' campaign staff is digging pretty deep into the docs to find the letters H,I,L,L,A,R,Y together. Or even T,R,U,M,P.

    My understanding is that (oddly enough), no Americans are implicated in this release.

    Current speculation is because of how the IRS taxes US citizens regardless of their current location, so banks opening accounts for Americans have to adhere to certain rules. Not to say that the sort of under-the-table banking such as these doesn't occur with Americans as well, but it probably happens that the bank in question is one of those which did not want to agree to those rules, so had a blanket policy of not accepting American clients.

    Agreed, really odd but your explanation makes sense. Maybe the corrupt in the US have a totally different method of laundering their money.

    i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

  • Options
    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I imagine there's quite a bounty on any MF employee, down to and including office janitors, by now...
    Basar wrote: »
    Wikileaks just released millions of documents leaked from a law firm called Mossack Fonseca (Panama) which apparently deals with massive corruption, especially with offshore business and banking.
    I'm not seeing anything about Wikileaks in this? The information was first sent directly to Süddeutsche Zeitung and from them shared with ICIJ.

    Panda4You on
  • Options
    GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    Seal wrote: »
    I feel like we should skip the cynicism, especially since we know next to no details at this point.

    Especially considering the reckoning that befell the financial industry after 2008

    Or the people who institutionalized torture in the wake of 911 in the USA

    Or... oh. Oh.

  • Options
    BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
    Panda4You wrote: »
    I'm not seeing anything about Wikileaks in this? The information was first sent directly to Süddeutsche Zeitung and from them shared with ICIJ.

    You are right. I knew it was Süddeutsche but I guess (in my mind) I were inclined to associate any leak with WL.

    i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

  • Options
    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Pretty much the only country that did anything about cracking down on its banks and arresting bankers after the financial crisis was Iceland, so yeah, repeating what others have said that Iceland is going to see a new prime minister and some serious political shakeup very soon. We'll see what else if anything happens.

  • Options
    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    milski wrote: »
    So I think this kind of shoots down the "wikileaks is basically an arm of the Russian government" thing since it's implicated Putin.

    This isn't Wikileaks as far as I can tell but a source directly contacted Süddeutsche Zeitung.

    honovere on
  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Is it wrong that this puts the biggest damn smile on my face?

    Seriously. The biggest.

  • Options
    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    What's amazing is that this is one company, in a sideways little country. :)2.6 terabytes of data.

    How many thousands of these firms exist out there?

    Edit: A journo friend of mine is so giddy right now.

    Panda4You on
  • Options
    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Panda4You wrote: »
    What's amazing is that this is one company, in a sideways little country. :)2.6 terabytes of data.

    How many thousands of these firms exist out there?

    Edit: A journo friend of mine is so giddy right now.

    It's not some small firm though, it's the fourth largest in that line of business in the world.

  • Options
    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    Ah, kk
    Still, bigger fish out there. :wink:

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Add UK to the list of countries whose heads of state (indirectly) are involved.

    David Cameron's father implicated by the Panama Papers
    In 2013, U.K. leader David Cameron urged his country’s overseas territories - including the British Virgin Islands - to work with him to “get our own houses in order” and join the fight against tax evasion and offshore secrecy.

    He could have looked no further than his late father to see how challenging that would be.

    Ian Cameron, a stockbroker and multimillionaire, was a Mossack Fonseca client who used the law firm to shield his investment fund, Blairmore Holdings, Inc., from U.K. taxes.

    The fund’s name came from Blairmore House, his family’s ancestral country estate. Mossack Fonseca registered the investment fund in Panama even though many of its key investors were British. Ian Cameron controlled the fund from its birth in 1982 until his death in 2010.

    A prospectus for investors said the fund “should be managed and conducted so that it does not become resident in the United Kingdom for United Kingdom taxation purposes.”

    The fund did this by using untraceable certificates of ownership known as “bearer shares” and by employing “nominee” company officers based in the Bahamas, the law firm’s leaked records show.

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Also, just for a quick list for folks, heads of state who are directly included on the list:
    Mauricio Macri, president or Argentina.
    Bidzina Ivanishvill. ex PM of Georgia
    Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson, PM of Iceland.
    Ayad H. Allawi, ex PM of Iraq.
    Ali Abu-Ragheb, ex PM of Jordan.
    Hamad Jasim J.M. Al-Thani, ex PM of Qatar.
    Sheik Al-Thani, Emir of Qatar.
    HRH Prince Salman, King of Saudi Arabia
    Ahmad Al-Nirghani, ex-president of Sudan
    Sultan Al-Nahyan, president of the UAE.
    Pavlo Lazarenko, ex-PM of Ukraine.
    Petro Poroshenko, president of Ukraine.

    https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/?lang=en

    ^Link including family members

    Apparently not all names have been released yet, as journalists have given those on the list opportunity to comment.

    What blows my mind is the scope of this thing not having gotten leaked. Hundreds of journalists working together for a year, across multiple countries, all releasing all at once (presumably to make it so that it wouldn't get push under the rug, and also to prevent assassinations of individual journalists). That's fucking nuts.

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Basar wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Basar wrote: »
    I bet Sanders' campaign staff is digging pretty deep into the docs to find the letters H,I,L,L,A,R,Y together. Or even T,R,U,M,P.

    My understanding is that (oddly enough), no Americans are implicated in this release.

    Current speculation is because of how the IRS taxes US citizens regardless of their current location, so banks opening accounts for Americans have to adhere to certain rules. Not to say that the sort of under-the-table banking such as these doesn't occur with Americans as well, but it probably happens that the bank in question is one of those which did not want to agree to those rules, so had a blanket policy of not accepting American clients.

    Agreed, really odd but your explanation makes sense. Maybe the corrupt in the US have a totally different method of laundering their money.
    Many have been sending me PMs regarding FATCA and how it has potentially played a role in preventing Americans from appearing in the papers. As quoted from Wikipedia, "the law requires all non-U.S. financial institutions to search their records for indicia indicating U.S. person-status and to report the assets and identities of such persons to the U.S. Department of the Treasury". Basically, the United States government would already be aware of your actions. Quoting FATCA is not a complete explanation, however, as leaked data goes back to 1977



    Above tweet:
    The Editor in Chief of Süddeutsche Zeitung responded to the lack of United States individuals in the documents, saying to "Just wait for what is coming next".

    So we're definitely not done here.


    Some other choice bits of information:
    Six members of the UK’s House of Lords, three former Conservative MPs and dozens of donors to UK political parties have had offshore assets.

  • Options
    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »

    I had to awesome that. Yes its more dirt on the US's name. But I love the idea of people who have been doing dirty bullshit being exposed.

    If you are an American citizen involved in this kind of thing then you have been skirting your tax responsibilities to the US. And you get no sympathy from me.

  • Options
    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    I'm wondering how they're counting the size of the leak. 2.6 TB in pdfs is much different than 2.6 TB of plain text.

    Though either way it's a fuck-ton

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • Options
    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    So is this a case of the offshore holdings we all assumed being the case now suddenly turning out to be real?

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    I'm wondering how they're counting the size of the leak. 2.6 TB in pdfs is much different than 2.6 TB of plain text.

    Though either way it's a fuck-ton

    Well they said 11.5 million documents. So probably PDF's.

  • Options
    SealSeal Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    I'm wondering how they're counting the size of the leak. 2.6 TB in pdfs is much different than 2.6 TB of plain text.

    Though either way it's a fuck-ton

    The Panama papers website says "The data primarily comprises e-mails, pdf files, photo files, and excerpts of an internal Mossack Fonseca database."

    I haven't seen any exact breakdowns.

  • Options
    Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »
    I'm wondering how they're counting the size of the leak. 2.6 TB in pdfs is much different than 2.6 TB of plain text.

    Though either way it's a fuck-ton

    Well they said 11.5 million documents. So probably PDF's.

    _modules_6_image_url.png

  • Options
    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Corrupt financial institutions are corrupt. Color me shocked.

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Hypothetical world map, but it lists Americans on it, so I don't know how good the data it's based off of is.

    Argentina's President has responded
    Argentinian president Mauricio Macri declares he "never had a direct intervention on the joint offshore account".

    He was appointed CEO of the company, along with his father Francisco Macri and his brother Mariano.

  • Options
    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    So is this a case of the offshore holdings we all assumed being the case now suddenly turning out to be real?

    Even FIFA and Putin!

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • Options
    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    I tend to think the Americans will be fairly anonymous because it's really unlike journalists to bury the lede this obviously. You don't go heads of state/government up to the father of the UK PM and leave off like a Majority leader or PotUS

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • Options
    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    I'm guessing it will be Representatives or Senators at worst

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Trump?

    Please let it be Trump.

    He alone can tax-evade.

  • Options
    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »


    CHECKMATE OBAMA

    With Love and Courage
  • Options
    DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    The lack of reporting on this in US news is downright creepy.

  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    KetBra wrote: »


    CHECKMATE OBAMA

    I know you are just being silly.

    But to comment seriously, I doubt it's the President because that would be page 1 news and they would lead with that and because, seriously has the Pres ever had that much money? I know he's a Millionaire but I don't think he's ever had the resources that you need a Mossack Fonseca to conceal.

Sign In or Register to comment.