As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
Is Soylent safe to Drink?
wandering
Russia state-affiliated mediaRegistered User regular
Russia state-affiliated mediaRegistered User regular
So I started drinking Soylent awhile back - everyone's favorite futuristic meal-in-a-bottle:
I wasn't using it as a total meal replacement - I just had a couple bottles of 400 calorie Soylent 2.0 a day. I really liked the stuff! I think it helped me lose weight - having a bunch of quick-and-easy nutritionally balanced meals on hand helped me avoid junk food. And as a vegan who doesn't always pay enough attention to having a balanced diet, I liked the idea that Soylent might be helping fill in any gaps in my nutrition.
But here's the problem: it seems like Soylent has had continuous problems with mold and food safety. Way back when they were first starting out, Vice toured their facility, and tested the product, and they found a rat, and mold:
Well, not so fast - reports started pouring in of people were opening up their Soylent bottles and finding mold inside:
It seems like the company was initially cagey about the mold - at first not talking about it, and then only admitting to "11 isolated incidents", which apparently is "well within the industry standard rate of one in 10,000 defects in low acid aseptic packaging", whatever the hell that means. But they eventually admitted there was a larger problem You can read their press releases about this here.
Apparently, they started putting foil soils on the bottles to help prevent mold. Has it worked? I'm not sure, and in any case, it doesn't matter - because the Soylent I have doesn't have the seals.
Anyway, when I started hearing all this stuff about mold and rats I got pretty nervous. ...And then I happened to read an article about the salmonella peanut butter deaths - remember those? - unsanitary peanut butter facilities, filled with mold and rats, lead to peanut butter getting infested with salmonella, which lead to hundreds of people getting sick, and several deaths...
And then I saw it - mold at the bottom of one my Soylent bottles.
...Now, I didn't notice the mold when I first drank the bottle, and I'm a slob so this thing was sitting around for weeks. So the mold probably just formed after I drank it. But I still freaked out - I emailed Soylent's customer service and said I wanted to return all my unopened bottles of Soylent for a full refund. They said that they would happily refund me, but that they didn't accept returns.
And so here I am - stuck with a bunch of Soylent I'm a little afraid to drink - about 30 meals worth:
Should I drink it?
Should I throw it out?
I'm reluctant to just throw out 30 square meals - it seems so wasteful.
But it also seems silly to risk my health. ...But how much of a risk it it, really? Everything is a little bit of a risk, after all, and I'm young and relatively healthy...
And if I do throw it out - do you think it would be safe to try Soylent again, say, in a year from now, if there aren't any further reports about problems? Or is this a company that I should write off forever?
(Let's try and keep this discussion on the safety of Soylent and avoid it spiraling into a broader Soylent discussion.)
I wasn't using it as a total meal replacement - I just had a couple bottles of 400 calorie Soylent 2.0 a day. I really liked the stuff! I think it helped me lose weight - having a bunch of quick-and-easy nutritionally balanced meals on hand helped me avoid junk food. And as a vegan who doesn't always pay enough attention to having a balanced diet, I liked the idea that Soylent might be helping fill in any gaps in my nutrition.
But here's the problem: it seems like Soylent has had continuous problems with mold and food safety. Way back when they were first starting out, Vice toured their facility, and tested the product, and they found a rat, and mold:
A few of the packets were infested with mold, but that didn’t bother me; I was a beta tester after all, and the packaging hadn’t been finalized yet.
The company's responded that that was back when we were using cheap warehouse space - they've since, apparently, moved to a more professional food production facility. Problems solved?...while we were at the Soylent factory, we saw a rat...
Well, not so fast - reports started pouring in of people were opening up their Soylent bottles and finding mold inside:
It seems like the company was initially cagey about the mold - at first not talking about it, and then only admitting to "11 isolated incidents", which apparently is "well within the industry standard rate of one in 10,000 defects in low acid aseptic packaging", whatever the hell that means. But they eventually admitted there was a larger problem You can read their press releases about this here.
Apparently, they started putting foil soils on the bottles to help prevent mold. Has it worked? I'm not sure, and in any case, it doesn't matter - because the Soylent I have doesn't have the seals.
Anyway, when I started hearing all this stuff about mold and rats I got pretty nervous. ...And then I happened to read an article about the salmonella peanut butter deaths - remember those? - unsanitary peanut butter facilities, filled with mold and rats, lead to peanut butter getting infested with salmonella, which lead to hundreds of people getting sick, and several deaths...
And then I saw it - mold at the bottom of one my Soylent bottles.
...Now, I didn't notice the mold when I first drank the bottle, and I'm a slob so this thing was sitting around for weeks. So the mold probably just formed after I drank it. But I still freaked out - I emailed Soylent's customer service and said I wanted to return all my unopened bottles of Soylent for a full refund. They said that they would happily refund me, but that they didn't accept returns.
And so here I am - stuck with a bunch of Soylent I'm a little afraid to drink - about 30 meals worth:
Should I drink it?
Should I throw it out?
I'm reluctant to just throw out 30 square meals - it seems so wasteful.
But it also seems silly to risk my health. ...But how much of a risk it it, really? Everything is a little bit of a risk, after all, and I'm young and relatively healthy...
And if I do throw it out - do you think it would be safe to try Soylent again, say, in a year from now, if there aren't any further reports about problems? Or is this a company that I should write off forever?
(Let's try and keep this discussion on the safety of Soylent and avoid it spiraling into a broader Soylent discussion.)
wandering on
Is Soylent safe to Drink? 52 votes
Drink 'em!
51%
27 votes
Throw 'em out!
48%
25 votes
0
Posts
This is the soylent where it's already mixed with water (I think) so it's ready to drink?
It's not the powder that you need to mix yourself.
I would have thought the premixed and ready to drink stuff has a shorter shelf life anyway?
That said, assuming you love the stuff given that the mold problem is well documented and that you have seen it personally, I'd assume the entire batch is tainted and at least order another. Sending the company photos might allow for a free shipment and/or refund.
I'm assuming you've been storing them properly and they're within use by date.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
edit: is it green too?
also, it's people.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Just open a bottle, pour it in a glass. Is it good? Drink. If you see mould then of course dump it
No good reason to waste them.
How is it, anyway? I really wanna try it out, but there doesn't seem to be a 'one bottle' option? And no powder option anymore? I am blind, you can still get the powder. Not much of a savings, but at least there's probably no risk of mould.
I gather that if there is mold near the top of a bottle when you open it, then it is probably due to a sealing problem with that particular bottle.
If you open a bottle and there is no mold visible on the top of the liquid, then I would drink it.
I'm not familiar with what you're talking about.
I tried to google it, but I'm mainly finding emotional screeds that rail against the idea of phasing traditional foods out of your diet.
As a replacement for something like a weight watchers shake for lunch, probably not a big difference.
The closest thing I saw to a fact-based argument was, yeah, the idea that tofu harms you if primarily eat tofu proteins for a long time. The articles I found did not back up this claim with citations to studies or summaries of studies.
I did some digging on this a few years ago when I thought about going vegetarian.
Take it with a grain of salt, but my amateur understanding based on reading the abstracts of some studies is this: (1) some people are anxious about being somehow harmed or weakened by consuming the phytoestrogens in tofu—estrogen makes you weak, and phytoestrogens are like estrogen, and you don't want to be weak, do you?; and (2) there is no good basis in science for anxieties about whether tofu somehow harms you or fails to provide adequate long-term proteins.
You have to drink a considerable amount for any linked issue, which is why soy rich diets generally are considered not a great idea for most people. Regardless of the delivery mechanism, Soylent or otherwise, it is a real dietary consideration when making any major health change.
If I were considering switching to a soylent based diet I'd consult with my GP and family history first.
Why would anyone do that though?
If I open and leave a weightwatcher's shake out, even in a fridge, it'll be pretty nasty after several days.
*facepalm* Of course it got moldy in a few weeks after you opened it... I think most people didn't read that far in your question.
If you want to feel better, pour each one into a glass before you drink it.
Don't make a soy nutritional shake part of your regular diet. There's plenty of soy free dairy free alternatives. Look for stuff made with pea protein.
That's part of what I was talking about.
Among other concerns, people are anxious that soy phytoestrogens might increase the same cancer risks that are seemingly increased by estrogen. I gather the science has tended to show that those concerns are unfounded and, if anything, that significant soy intake might both decrease prostate-cancer risk and increase the efficacy of prostate-cancer treatment.
I'm not gonna fight you about this, but for what Its worth my opinion on this topic comes from my family GP, a established and pretty damn decent doctor with years of experience. Compared to "what can I google" I tend to value that expertise. Your miles may vary.
I have been curious about soylent since I'd heard about it when it was in beta but the soy content kinda put me off for the quoted reasons you guys have mentioned.... there are studies (I know, I know... "studies" the classic internet source of information) that link high levels of soy consumption to decreased testosterone/increased estrogen levels in men, where "high levels" are quoted as low as 25g of soy protein per day. At 20g per container it put me off of the product a little bit (history of prostate cancer in the fam on my dads side).
That part aside, for the OP, I'd say if you poor the containers into a glass and you can't see visible mold in the container or glass, I would imagine they're just fine. Any vitamin and protein rich drink left out for a few days is going to start growing gross stuff even at room temperature (I'm only speaking anecdotally from leaving a morning shake container on my desk and forgetting about it a few times over the years). If you've had them for any duration and they're not moldy by now upon opening, I can't see that they'd be rat-tainted.
Also I'm amazed that they could market and sell a drink like that without foil seals in the first place... it seems like it's pretty standard on any type of protein rich meal replacements or drinks you can find out there... even chocolate milk has foil seals!
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
(Incidentally, to be clear, I didn't leave an unfinished bottle out - the bottle with mold on the bottom was fully drunk - just not sparkling clean.)
Fortunately Pubmed and other NIH resources are now searchable via Google, so yes it's a decent source for actual scientific information (if you're diligent about sourcing)
Cursory glances at the most recent research a tracts seem to indicate the opposite of what your GP is telling you, but again ymmv
I would absolutely agree that mold in a product is a reason to question the overall safety of a food product, but mold and bacteria are two different things with different causes and AFAIK there haven't been any reports of bacterial problems with Soylent. Getting a bad jug of milk or container of sour cream (both have happened to me, and I assume most people) doesn't mean that that brand of dairy is going to give my family e coli or salmonella. It just means there was an issue with that batch or jug or container. I think maybe there's a bigger concern with Soylent because it's a newer synthetic (not the right word, but the first that comes to mind) food product that's "forumulated". It's not an apple or milk or a steak... it was combined from base compounds in a factory, but I don't think that makes it any more dangerous than another food on the market. They had a listeria outbreak here in BC in the last couple years with bag salad... SALAD!.... luckily I don't eat that stuff.
With the rat thing, I'm going to agree with Tinwhiskers. My fiancée's father has worked in the food manufacturing industry for decades with big name companies like Lucerne, old dutch, McCain's, etc (we're Canadian... maybe those aren't big names in the states... I dunno) and all of those major production facilities had a full time pest control guy on site. You have large bulk volumes of edible product around and you're going to have pests trying to get their fill. Sight of a rat doesn't necessarily mean sanitary problems with a product.
...hopefully the rats in question at the soylent plant were pests and not ingredients
That said, I don't know that I'd drink the rest of a six-pack if I found mold in one of my containers.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Not really. Occasionally you'll get moldy food, and if that's the case, they should be refunding it.
Yes, but "for weeks." That's plenty of time for some protein-heavy dregs to get yucky.
That's why we invented refrigerators.
you do not understand mold... google it. this is like saying oh wow this bread grew mold but it's just one piece of bread.
i'm changing my answer to no, don't drink it. don't consume products you're not sure about. however, a sealed product from a reputable vendor, i would trust. people are drinking this every day. it's pretty new though so sure, skip it if you want.
Listen, this is tough love, your knowledge of food safety is absolute garbage if you don't understand how mold grows or when it grows and you're just spouting buzzwords when you say salmonella and e.coli in this instance, because to use your two examples... salmonella is found in meat products. Soylent contains no meat products and is not made in a factory where any meat products are processed. e.coli could be transmitted through fecal contamination but given how soylent is made, that's not likely. that is more for either ground meat or food prep at a restaurant where a food handler contaminates. you might as well be worried about lead contamination (don't be worried about lead contamination)
i'm not a doctor though. just sell it and feel better. other people have brought up non spoilage issues that are considerations. i'm only saying your spoilage considerations are not very likely.
Cheers.
-
@OnTheLastCastle a couple of things:
I gotta be honest your tone is rubbing me the wrong way, and if you googled salmonella yourself you'd find out it is not remotely limited to meat products. And it's true that I don't know that much about food safety - that's why I asked the question in the first place.
The note about seeing mold in one of my bottles was kind of a side note - I did freak out when I saw the mold, but I already admitted that it was probably just from the bottle sitting out. I understand that mold grows on food that's left out. My main concern was the continuing reports of people opening new, sealed bottles of Soylent and finding mold inside, as well as Vice's report about seeing a scurrying rat in one of the production facilities. (If I remember right Vice also raised a little bit of concern about the dustiness/cleanliness of the warehouse they looked at, as well.) I thought all these things felt like red flags so I wanted to ask about it. The fact that this a relatively new, unestablished company added to my nervousness, too.
"Salmonella outbreaks are commonly associated with eggs, meat and poultry, but these bacteria can also contaminate other foods such as fruits and vegetables. Foods that are most likely to contain Salmonella include raw or undercooked eggs, raw milk, contaminated water, and raw or undercooked meats."
So could you get Salmonella from Soylent? Yes. But then again it's on the risk scale of fruit and veg.
You're not likely to get e coli with foods not associated, at least somewhere, with poop (fertilizer).
You can still get them. If you didn't wipe down a counter correctly after cutting up some chicken, or you shit on your hands and forgot to wash them and decided to make out with your hand.
The mold you are seeing is an airborne mold that just set up shop because you opened a container and it's no longer pasteurized, or whatever aseptic technique is being employed. When food is exposed to air, after enough time (hours to days to weeks, depends on the food) bacteria and mold will begin to appear. Bread is the most common one, it molds quickly. Also even if you don't eat the actual part that's molded, you can still get sick, because the bacteria release toxins into the food. You may not see how far they are, the visible part is just a large enough colony to be visible.
I'm not trying to be condescending but I hope this helps you. Because I don't want you to get sick. Food poisoning sucks.
this link from the CDC has them so far this year from pistachios, alfalfa sprouts, (vegan) meal replacement; in previous years there's pork and chicken (and turtles and geckos?) in there as well, of course, but about half of them are non-meat.
Typically that comes from cross contamination. Without getting too far into it, the factories were this stuff is handled is used for other foods where salmonella is more common, and sometimes it's handled by infected individuals who can't afford to call out of work.
Salmonella is another poop bacteria, more common in birds than mammals, and the reason why chicken is so high in salmonella is the way they're butchered in the US. Not really common in "non-live food" in the case of soylent.
This is just another step in the eventual goal to phase cooking out of world culture
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.