Civil War has already made more than BvS worldwide. It's at $940 million. BvS is at $868 million. Even if WB is willing to continue their current path, their investors and advertising partners can't be happy. There's going to be a lot of pressure on Suicide Squad to do well.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Max and Han are both presented as part of a setting that is far weirder than they are, though.
Superheroes are ostensibly included in a facsimile of our world, making their personal weirdness, which is arguably a lot weirder than Han Solo or Max's, more notable. They are the most interesting part of the setting, so we are told how they came to exist. In Star Wars, we're more interested in all the craziness around them and don't care so much how the cool pilot guy ended up with a skinny bear sidekick.
Tim Burton's Batman only really showed off the killing of Batman's parents well into the movie.
The origin stories of a lot of superheroes aren't that interesting and were often never intended to be that important because they had to work even with people picking up a later issue back when it wasn't easy to look up that info. A lot of them only had origins made after they proved to be popular.
I really think they are missing out on the comedic goldmine of having Batman just randomly appear in every movie. I don't want him to have anything to do with the plot, just having him show up at the very end and deliver the knockout punch to the bad guy, or even better, just sitting at a coffee shop in the background in full costume.
I don't get this tho, when it's not a superhero, we're totally fine never getting an origin.
Han Solo, Indiana Jones, ..
Hmm, maybe we only don't need an origin if it's Harrison Ford
Sometimes a character is so iconic it doesn't need introduction. Indy is one such character since it's so firmly built on 30s pulp, but you still get an intro to tell us who he is even if we don't get an origin. You don't need an origin story for a cowboy either and for good reason.
Part of the problem of super heroes is both that they don't have this established mythos yet (also in that they're expected to be unique whereas Indy was not) but also in that their origin really does inform us of who they are. A cowboy or an explorer is a profession and asking for the origin of one would be like asking for the origin story of an accountant. "Well I needed a job and was qualified and so after studying I passed my exams and Jesus Christ this is boring"
I think that maybe marvel is at the point where they maybe don't need to do origins. They could probably cover that in an opening montage "holy shit I have super powers... Holy shit I am a super hero!"-> 5 years later.
I don't think that WB is in a position to do that.
I don't get this tho, when it's not a superhero, we're totally fine never getting an origin.
Han Solo, Indiana Jones, ..
Hmm, maybe we only don't need an origin if it's Harrison Ford
Sometimes a character is so iconic it doesn't need introduction. Indy is one such character since it's so firmly built on 30s pulp, but you still get an intro to tell us who he is even if we don't get an origin. You don't need an origin story for a cowboy either and for good reason.
Part of the problem of super heroes is both that they don't have this established mythos yet (also in that they're expected to be unique whereas Indy was not) but also in that their origin really does inform us of who they are. A cowboy or an explorer is a profession and asking for the origin of one would be like asking for the origin story of an accountant. "Well I needed a job and was qualified and so after studying I passed my exams and Jesus Christ this is boring"
I think that maybe marvel is at the point where they maybe don't need to do origins. They could probably cover that in an opening montage "holy shit I have super powers... Holy shit I am a super hero!"-> 5 years later.
I don't think that WB is in a position to do that.
An origin can also be included in another film too. Like, we got Falcon's origin story in Winter Soldier and WS had tons of shit going on. But we still got everything we needed. The particular military background and the flying pack. If they do a solo film for that character they would need to go more into his motivations, but we don't need the para-rescue and flying pack explained to us again.
Black Panther was basically that. He was already BP, and just shows up.
Folks are like, um, sure.
I mean, they take a moment or two to let us know he's royalty, and the Black Panther runs in his family.
But that's pretty much it.
Yeah, but you know there's plenty of good movies about weird shit that aren't really origin stories, or if they are they're origin stories about a group coming together, not how the underlying specifics that necessitated its forming came to be.
- Guardians of the Galaxy
- Ghostbusters
- Krull
- The Fifth Element
- Alien
- Star Wars
- Blade Runner
- Mad Max: Fury Road
- X-Men
I don't get this tho, when it's not a superhero, we're totally fine never getting an origin.
Han Solo, Indiana Jones, ..
Hmm, maybe we only don't need an origin if it's Harrison Ford
Sometimes a character is so iconic it doesn't need introduction. Indy is one such character since it's so firmly built on 30s pulp, but you still get an intro to tell us who he is even if we don't get an origin. You don't need an origin story for a cowboy either and for good reason.
Part of the problem of super heroes is both that they don't have this established mythos yet (also in that they're expected to be unique whereas Indy was not) but also in that their origin really does inform us of who they are. A cowboy or an explorer is a profession and asking for the origin of one would be like asking for the origin story of an accountant. "Well I needed a job and was qualified and so after studying I passed my exams and Jesus Christ this is boring"
I think that maybe marvel is at the point where they maybe don't need to do origins. They could probably cover that in an opening montage "holy shit I have super powers... Holy shit I am a super hero!"-> 5 years later.
I don't think that WB is in a position to do that.
An origin can also be included in another film too. Like, we got Falcon's origin story in Winter Soldier and WS had tons of shit going on. But we still got everything we needed. The particular military background and the flying pack. If they do a solo film for that character they would need to go more into his motivations, but we don't need the para-rescue and flying pack explained to us again.
Black Panther was basically that. He was already BP, and just shows up.
Folks are like, um, sure.
I mean, they take a moment or two to let us know he's royalty, and the Black Panther runs in his family.
But that's pretty much it.
Yeah, but you know there's plenty of good movies about weird shit that aren't really origin stories, or if they are they're origin stories about a group coming together, not how the underlying specifics that necessitated its forming came to be.
- Guardians of the Galaxy
- Ghostbusters
- Krull
- The Fifth Element
- Alien
- Star Wars
- Blade Runner
- Mad Max: Fury Road
- X-Men
Bolded are origin stories. it could be argued Alien was the origin for Ripley. Star Wars got two origins, first with A New Hope (Luke) and another with TFA (Rey/Finn).
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I don't get this tho, when it's not a superhero, we're totally fine never getting an origin.
Han Solo, Indiana Jones, ..
Hmm, maybe we only don't need an origin if it's Harrison Ford
How many people who saw Fury Road saw the first Mad Max or remembered much of it?
Eh, that's kind of a special case, as George Miller has explicitly stated that Max is less of an actual person and more of a legendary character in his future world. Where Max came from doesn't matter in that context, only that Max is.
But unlike, say, Spider-Man or Superman, who have had their origins told to a stupid degree, loads of people are just not going to have any idea who most of those characters listed in pair-ups actually are. I bet you more people would wonder why Constantine isn't played by Keanu Reeves and why is he in a superhero movie than would have any idea who Booster Gold is.
Which really really underscores why WB was idiotic for trying to force all this stuff so quickly instead of building it slowly, because that's how Marvel is able to drop new characters like Falcon, Black Panther, Vision, Winter Soldier, etc on the audience. They've already got a setting built, so they don't need to set a new stage for every character, just link them into the story in a reasonable way, give a bit of background, and move on.
Actually, George Miller's Justice League wasn't going to deal with origin stories. It was going to be set in a world where the Justice League has been around for like a decade or something like that. It was pretty much going to be Justice League Unlimited + Tower of Babel + The OMAC Project, except Wonder Woman doesn't kill Maxwell Lord. Lord does the Luthor+Brainiac thing and merges with Brother Eye and all the OMAC nanites and Flash sacrifices himself to take Lord into the Speed Force.
I really think they are missing out on the comedic goldmine of having Batman just randomly appear in every movie. I don't want him to have anything to do with the plot, just having him show up at the very end and deliver the knockout punch to the bad guy, or even better, just sitting at a coffee shop in the background in full costume.
Nah, the How it Should Have Ended folks would sue.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
The movie was his origin. He didn't inherit the mantle until his father dies, which is like his Uncle Ben moment.
Nope
He was Black Panther, and then became king. His line was about how there's always a Black Panther, and now he has become the king.
In the comics the Panther is inherited from king to king, son to son. I thought that was what they were going for and we only see him officially as BP after his father bites it. The warrior he's talking about is supposed to be T'Chaka. Not 100% of course, since sometimes Marvel changes things in the MCU.
I don't get this tho, when it's not a superhero, we're totally fine never getting an origin.
Han Solo, Indiana Jones, ..
Hmm, maybe we only don't need an origin if it's Harrison Ford
Sometimes a character is so iconic it doesn't need introduction. Indy is one such character since it's so firmly built on 30s pulp, but you still get an intro to tell us who he is even if we don't get an origin. You don't need an origin story for a cowboy either and for good reason.
Part of the problem of super heroes is both that they don't have this established mythos yet (also in that they're expected to be unique whereas Indy was not) but also in that their origin really does inform us of who they are. A cowboy or an explorer is a profession and asking for the origin of one would be like asking for the origin story of an accountant. "Well I needed a job and was qualified and so after studying I passed my exams and Jesus Christ this is boring"
I think that maybe marvel is at the point where they maybe don't need to do origins. They could probably cover that in an opening montage "holy shit I have super powers... Holy shit I am a super hero!"-> 5 years later.
I don't think that WB is in a position to do that.
The X-Men were a stroke of lazy genius.
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
But unlike, say, Spider-Man or Superman, who have had their origins told to a stupid degree, loads of people are just not going to have any idea who most of those characters listed in pair-ups actually are. I bet you more people would wonder why Constantine isn't played by Keanu Reeves and why is he in a superhero movie than would have any idea who Booster Gold is.
I would be wondering why Constantine wasn't Matt Ryan.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Black Panther was basically that. He was already BP, and just shows up.
Folks are like, um, sure.
I mean, they take a moment or two to let us know he's royalty, and the Black Panther runs in his family.
But that's pretty much it.
Yeah, but you know there's plenty of good movies about weird shit that aren't really origin stories, or if they are they're origin stories about a group coming together, not how the underlying specifics that necessitated its forming came to be.
- Guardians of the Galaxy
- Ghostbusters
- Krull
- The Fifth Element
- Alien
- Star Wars
- Blade Runner
- Mad Max: Fury Road
- X-Men
Bolded are origin stories. it could be argued Alien was the origin for Ripley. Star Wars got two origins, first with A New Hope (Luke) and another with TFA (Rey/Finn).
Those are not "origin" stories, guy. Iron Man is an origin story. He starts as one thing, and it takes almost half the film to get him through the origin.
GotG covers Peter's origin in a two-minute cold open. The Ghostbusters are already paranormal scientists and friends when the film starts. The X-Men are well-formed and Wolverine already knows his skillset before the film starts (though Rogue is kinda given the origin treatment, but again, in a two minute cold open).
The Ghostbusters weren't ghost busters at the start of the movie. They were paranormal investigators at a university. The movie is about how they lose their research grant and go into business for themselves.
Those are not "origin" stories, guy. Iron Man is an origin story. He starts as one thing, and it takes almost half the film to get him through the origin.
GotG covers Peter's origin in a two-minute cold open. The Ghostbusters are already paranormal scientists and friends when the film starts. The X-Men are well-formed and Wolverine already knows his skillset before the film starts (though Rogue is kinda given the origin treatment, but again, in a two minute cold open).
So, no. You're wrong on this.
Origins aren't limited to individuals, teams have origins too. Peter may be the biggest lead, but the movie is called GOTG, not Peter Quill: Starlord.X-men is the origin story for how Wolverine and Rogue join the group - it's how they became X-men. Ghostbusters was the group becoming the Ghostbusters, they don't start off like that and how they overcome their first mission.
Harry Dresden on
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Those are not "origin" stories, guy. Iron Man is an origin story. He starts as one thing, and it takes almost half the film to get him through the origin.
GotG covers Peter's origin in a two-minute cold open. The Ghostbusters are already paranormal scientists and friends when the film starts. The X-Men are well-formed and Wolverine already knows his skillset before the film starts (though Rogue is kinda given the origin treatment, but again, in a two minute cold open).
So, no. You're wrong on this.
Origins aren't limited to individuals, teams have origins too. Peter may be the biggest lead, but the movie is called GOTG, not Peter Quill: Starlord.X-men is the origin story for how Wolverine and Rogue join the group - it's how they became X-men. Ghostbusters was the group becoming the Ghostbusters, they don't start off like that and how they overcome their first mission.
then maybe read the qualifying part of the original comment
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Those are not "origin" stories, guy. Iron Man is an origin story. He starts as one thing, and it takes almost half the film to get him through the origin.
GotG covers Peter's origin in a two-minute cold open. The Ghostbusters are already paranormal scientists and friends when the film starts. The X-Men are well-formed and Wolverine already knows his skillset before the film starts (though Rogue is kinda given the origin treatment, but again, in a two minute cold open).
So, no. You're wrong on this.
Origins aren't limited to individuals, teams have origins too. Peter may be the biggest lead, but the movie is called GOTG, not Peter Quill: Starlord.X-men is the origin story for how Wolverine and Rogue join the group - it's how they became X-men. Ghostbusters was the group becoming the Ghostbusters, they don't start off like that and how they overcome their first mission.
then maybe read the qualifying part of the original comment
Clarify, because I don't see where I'm wrong on this.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Yeah, but you know there's plenty of good movies about weird shit that aren't really origin stories, or if they are they're origin stories about a group coming together . . .
Yeah, but you know there's plenty of good movies about weird shit that aren't really origin stories, or if they are they're origin stories about a group coming together . . .
literally killing me
Here is where I disagree. Teams coming together for the first time = origin story
A movie is pretty much always going to do something for the first time. The vast majority of movies are characters dealing with something new and unexpected. The vast majority of them don't spend an hour explaining how those characters got there either. And I'll be more than happy when movies with super heroes stop doing it too. It really isn't necessary.
A movie is pretty much always going to do something for the first time. The vast majority of movies are characters dealing with something new and unexpected. The vast majority of them don't spend an hour explaining how those characters got there either. And I'll be more than happy when movies with super heroes stop doing it too. It really isn't necessary.
Going to take a few decades since most super-heroes the public don't know anything about.
Posts
Give everybody a solo movie where they take on one of Darkseid's flunkies.
Then when the big cheese shows up, they have to team up to stop him.
Team-up movies
Flash and Cyborg
Green Arrow and Green Lantern
Batman and Superman
Aquaman and Wonder Woman
Booster Gold and Blue Beetle
Hawkman and Hawkgirl
The Question and, uh, Adam Strange?
Constantine and Zatanna
not every movie has to be an origin story
ftfy to make it more WB approved.
I'm actually excited to see how this one turns out
I don't get this tho, when it's not a superhero, we're totally fine never getting an origin.
Han Solo, Indiana Jones, ..
Hmm, maybe we only don't need an origin if it's Harrison Ford
How many people who saw Fury Road saw the first Mad Max or remembered much of it?
And we all know how Vader's origin story turned out...
Superheroes are ostensibly included in a facsimile of our world, making their personal weirdness, which is arguably a lot weirder than Han Solo or Max's, more notable. They are the most interesting part of the setting, so we are told how they came to exist. In Star Wars, we're more interested in all the craziness around them and don't care so much how the cool pilot guy ended up with a skinny bear sidekick.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The most obvious way would be to have both the old Bruce Wayne Batman and then Batman Beyond, but since it's WB, I'm going to go with clones.
The origin stories of a lot of superheroes aren't that interesting and were often never intended to be that important because they had to work even with people picking up a later issue back when it wasn't easy to look up that info. A lot of them only had origins made after they proved to be popular.
Nah, they just need to show Batman's origin story twice.
...wait.
BvS2: This time, it's dumber.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Sometimes a character is so iconic it doesn't need introduction. Indy is one such character since it's so firmly built on 30s pulp, but you still get an intro to tell us who he is even if we don't get an origin. You don't need an origin story for a cowboy either and for good reason.
Part of the problem of super heroes is both that they don't have this established mythos yet (also in that they're expected to be unique whereas Indy was not) but also in that their origin really does inform us of who they are. A cowboy or an explorer is a profession and asking for the origin of one would be like asking for the origin story of an accountant. "Well I needed a job and was qualified and so after studying I passed my exams and Jesus Christ this is boring"
I think that maybe marvel is at the point where they maybe don't need to do origins. They could probably cover that in an opening montage "holy shit I have super powers... Holy shit I am a super hero!"-> 5 years later.
I don't think that WB is in a position to do that.
An origin can also be included in another film too. Like, we got Falcon's origin story in Winter Soldier and WS had tons of shit going on. But we still got everything we needed. The particular military background and the flying pack. If they do a solo film for that character they would need to go more into his motivations, but we don't need the para-rescue and flying pack explained to us again.
Folks are like, um, sure.
I mean, they take a moment or two to let us know he's royalty, and the Black Panther runs in his family.
But that's pretty much it.
Yeah, but you know there's plenty of good movies about weird shit that aren't really origin stories, or if they are they're origin stories about a group coming together, not how the underlying specifics that necessitated its forming came to be.
- Guardians of the Galaxy
- Ghostbusters
- Krull
- The Fifth Element
- Alien
- Star Wars
- Blade Runner
- Mad Max: Fury Road
- X-Men
Yup. DC Just isn't there yet
That's why WB shouldn't let George Lucas direct any super-hero origin movies.
Civil War spoilers
Bolded are origin stories. it could be argued Alien was the origin for Ripley. Star Wars got two origins, first with A New Hope (Luke) and another with TFA (Rey/Finn).
Eh, that's kind of a special case, as George Miller has explicitly stated that Max is less of an actual person and more of a legendary character in his future world. Where Max came from doesn't matter in that context, only that Max is.
But unlike, say, Spider-Man or Superman, who have had their origins told to a stupid degree, loads of people are just not going to have any idea who most of those characters listed in pair-ups actually are. I bet you more people would wonder why Constantine isn't played by Keanu Reeves and why is he in a superhero movie than would have any idea who Booster Gold is.
Which really really underscores why WB was idiotic for trying to force all this stuff so quickly instead of building it slowly, because that's how Marvel is able to drop new characters like Falcon, Black Panther, Vision, Winter Soldier, etc on the audience. They've already got a setting built, so they don't need to set a new stage for every character, just link them into the story in a reasonable way, give a bit of background, and move on.
Nah, the How it Should Have Ended folks would sue.
Nope
The X-Men were a stroke of lazy genius.
Not his best work? Look at that jaunty angle of that hat!
I would be wondering why Constantine wasn't Matt Ryan.
Those are not "origin" stories, guy. Iron Man is an origin story. He starts as one thing, and it takes almost half the film to get him through the origin.
GotG covers Peter's origin in a two-minute cold open. The Ghostbusters are already paranormal scientists and friends when the film starts. The X-Men are well-formed and Wolverine already knows his skillset before the film starts (though Rogue is kinda given the origin treatment, but again, in a two minute cold open).
So, no. You're wrong on this.
The origin of the Ghostbusters.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Origins aren't limited to individuals, teams have origins too. Peter may be the biggest lead, but the movie is called GOTG, not Peter Quill: Starlord. X-men is the origin story for how Wolverine and Rogue join the group - it's how they became X-men. Ghostbusters was the group becoming the Ghostbusters, they don't start off like that and how they overcome their first mission.
then maybe read the qualifying part of the original comment
Clarify, because I don't see where I'm wrong on this.
literally killing me
Here is where I disagree. Teams coming together for the first time = origin story
Going to take a few decades since most super-heroes the public don't know anything about.