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Legally take away a gift
Cody Nash 
Registered User new member
Registered User new member
So around Christmas I asked for a computer and it was paid for and purchased buy my dads girlfriend. It was given to me as present. I took the computer to my moms house and have been using it ever since. But I missed my birthday at my dads and she believes I don't spend enough time at his house so she's making me take the computer to my dads (which by the way I would be unable to use there to do internet problems) but my question is
Can she make me take the computer she gave me to my dads. She bought it but gave it to me as a present. Is it mine or hers legally ?
Can she make me take the computer she gave me to my dads. She bought it but gave it to me as a present. Is it mine or hers legally ?
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However, it sounds like you are a minor (apologies if you are not) so I don't know what property ownership rules around minors are. It shouldn't matter though since your dad's girlfriend sounds like she is trying to use the gift to manipulate you, I'd try to have a conversation with him about it since she is not your guardian.
It is yours legally, but parental guardians have the right to take away possessions from minors as long as they aren't selling/destroying them.
As she's just your dads girlfriend you don't have to listen to her, but that may put strain on any relationship between you and your dad as he would have to get in the middle of it.
If it's at your mother's how is it going to get to your father's without your involvement? Being underage means property is essentially your guardians, though, I don't think selling/destroying covers minor's property either.
Counterpoint: If you have to bribe a kid into liking you the issue is probably not the bribe.
Though that the Dad's attitude towards this hasn't been mentioned isn't a great sign. I'd advise OP to talk to the Dad alone about this and forget the legal aspect.
Edit: I mean, personally I'd just mail the fucking computer back to her since I hate that sort of controlling shit but I appreciate that young folks have much less access to resources like that.
And she is attempting to be extremely controling and manipulative. This is not something that leads to healthy productive relationships. I would recommend talking with his father about it and just ignoring her as much as possible. She does not appear interested in a healthy relationship.
Gifts are not weapons nor leverage to be used against someone. You don't get to give something then dictate terms since she is not a custodial guardian.
This.
Having dealt with this type of narcissistic bullshit before, I would just take the computer back to your dad's house, and never use it. Honestly, people like this give gifts and think it provides them some sort of leverage over you, as if they are giving you a gift with the sole intent that some sort of attention, or favor will be returned at a future date.
If you don't return it and your father stays with this person for a while, you will certainly hear about it again.
Assuming you are underage, I would probably just bring it back to be in compliance with your guardian and not cause yourself further problems. Is it right? Probably not. But honestly, I would just do it to avoid any further headache, and figure out how to get your own computer.
Edit:
To more directly answer the ops question, it all probably hinges on your status as a minor or adult. IANAL, as an adult, a gift is yours, unless there are extenuating circumstances, like the gifted object not being lawfully obtained by the gift giver. If you are a minor, you are probably out of luck, or any legal course you take would probably put a much more significant strain on your familial relationship than the strain of simply complying with your father/father's girlfriend's wishes.
Edit: I would also agree that gifts and bribes are not a way to make someones kid like you. Talking legal ways of keeping something that was given as a gift to a minor doesn't seem reasonable to me unless you want to escalate the situation and put dad in a horrible position. Which I guess may be the goal.
Edit2: Christmas was only 5 months ago. This seems like a strange escalation in 5 months.
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Yeah, it just sounds familiar and tugged at my emotions a bit.
But honestly, without more information, op, both sides of the story are completely valid.
This. Her saying OP doesn't spend enough time at their dad's makes me think it's something him (OP's dad )and her have discussed with him showing remorse over it, and this is just her attempt at trying to help the situation.
This of course is just an alternate possibility.
I am open to this concept, but can't think of a single way in which it would really play out. Giving gifts and then trying to leverage that into specific behavior is by definition manipulative and controlling. There's no two ways about that. Now there is certainly a lot of room in this story for the girlfriend to not be some terrible person but just a person out of their depth dealing with a teenager. That doesn't change the facts of this specific interaction though.
Not for a minor necessarily, no. If you give a teenager (not saying the OP necessarily is, but continuing your example) a PS4, and then they spend 30 hours a week in the basement playing it, it is not "manipulative and controlling" to say "you don't get to play any more video games until you spend more time with your family."
I mean, I guess technically it is "manipulative and controlling," but only technically and not at all with the meaning that you were intending.
For the OP's scenario, only they can really tell. I think, like others have recommended (yourself included), talking with the Dad and maybe the girlfriend together is the best way to go about this. I just think that for you to advise going into that with the attitude that the girlfriend is being "extremely controlling and manipulative" is bad advice for the OP given what we know, and has the potential to cause more problems than it solves.
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There is a difference in the stated case here. Not allowing someone to goof off because they have work to do and you are attempting to teach work ethic is one thing. This is not remotely the case here.
There is no discernable long term benefit to spending time with one parent over another independent of a lot of other variables. Nor is it the girlfriends place to strong arm a better developed relationship between the two which is what she is trying to do. Forcing this type of interaction will accomplish squat long term, and cause the person to form serious resentment.
There are reasons the OP is not over there more often. Reasons that this does not address. This is removing an object of some importance to the person in an effort to strong arm them past the other resistance and not deal with the underlying issues.
Basically just because an action is justifiable some of the time with a child does not make it always justifiable. Teens are also a fully different beast than smaller children and this kind of strong arm tactics do not work under the best of circumstances.
Edit: I would also add this is the girlfriend injecting herself into the relationship between the two. Apparently with limited to no involvement from the father here as he was not brought in as a factor. Its a mess of bad stuff going on here.
If the OP would like more specific advice, they could always give more details. I just don't think it's very responsible to give the OP advice that is assuming one of two extremes without any evidence to back that up. That's all
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Using words like words like "manipulative" and "controlling" is a huge leap of logic that none of us should feel comfortable using, especially given the OP is apparently considering legal options for what appears to be a rather simple case of a parental figure giving a gift and then trying to add stipulations to its use (e.g., I bought you this video game system but you can't use it unless you have finished all your homework). There is just way too much floating around right now for anyone to be giving definitive advice either way.
OP, if you're looking for actual legal advice, then I recommend you visit a lawyer. Even as a minor, you do have that option. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you are looking for here, as going on the internet to get people's opinions is not going to help make your case in this situation. What are you going to do, tell your dad's girlfriend that, "People on the internet said this is legally mine so I can do what I want with it"? Even if that were factually true, it would not lead to a meaningful resolution of the situation. In fact, it would likely escalate whatever problems are going on.
I don't see how you can argue the attempt to dictate the terms of how a gift may be used is anything but manipulative. We give a pass to parents manipulating their children but I really do not think we've been given anything here to imply she is a "parent" except that she's in a relationship with OPs father.
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If you keep the gift, you need to play by the unspoken rules (although they were spoken loud and clear in this case) or there will be repercussions in the future.
Even my family where my parents stuck together through thick and thin, this shit happened all the time with my siblings and I. You either accept the strings or refuse the gift. Accepting the gift, but refusing the strings, is the worst option, and will come back to bite you 10 times harder later than simply accepting the strings or refusing the gift.
thats a bit much
Really though, return to the girlfriend and have a chat with your dad & gf about this. This is not good behavior regardless of anyone's age.
He did say "worst case" here.
Honestly I would speak to the Dad. If this has boiled down to you not spending enough time with him, maybe you should do that and this will be forgotten.
That is extremely unhealthy to say the least. Using gifts as leverage is never the best idea. I don't disagree there will be repercussions for ignoring the request, but you should never give nor receive a gift with strings attached. Solving problems through manipulation is never something you should plan on.
There is a key difference I think people might be missing, and this will likely be my last post on the subject. You don't give a kid a PS4 as a way to take it away from them later for misbehaving. You give them one because you feel they deserve it using whatever definition of deserve you like. If later this proves to be a distraction then you limit use, but never go in with the intention of using it as a weapon. I also advise against using it to force family interaction, but that is just my general professional opinion on ways to bond with your kid. Or half of it. The other half being engage in something they actually want to do rather than force them into what you want. Obviously there are exceptions.
To bring it I guess fully on topic the ultimate decision is up to your mother kid. Supposing you are a minor she has full control over anything in her house. Your father clearly does not have court mandated custodial rights which pretty much kills any options he has. His girlfriend has zero rights to any of your stuff, or anything to do with you at all honestly.
Here's a scenario for you, maybe OP's dad's GF knows OP likes to play games and didn't have a way to do so previously @ his father's. Buying him said PC could be a means to provide him a gaming outlet WHILE at his father's. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact it's extremely generous.
I'm not saying that IS the scenario (as OP hasn't given those details) but it's every bit as likely as the conclusions you're jumping to.
OP - my advice to you is the same as some others. Talk to your dad and his GF about this. It's not about the PC - it's about spending time with your family.
It was probably just a simple gift. However, they probably assumed you would keep it in their house since it was their gift, and it wasn't really a cheap one. Adults, like all human beings, are not logical or perfect beings. They likely feel slighted that you're using this at your mothers as it was a gift from them/her. And thus, reacted like someone who is emotional would.
The proper course, like others have said, is to talk and explain why it's impractical. Talk about the pros and cons of what you're doing and what they want you to do. Explain how you're using it for school and need (good) internet access (hopefully those are the reasons).
However, maybe just bring it with you back and forth might be a simple enough solution!
Something like this might work:
http://www.amazon.com/ThinkGeek-GearGrip-Pro-Large-Size/dp/B00021UJ62
Don't come at this like you're angry or upset and throwing accusations that someone's manipulative because that will just exacerbate the situation.
In this day and age, a computer is absolutely necessary just to be able to do homework. Given that the dad's place doesn't have reliable internet, it seems like the girlfriend is just crippling his ability to do homework. If I were him I'd speak to his actual parents about this and see what they say.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
I assure you the one thing I can never do again is look at interactions with children through rose colored glasses. I am looking at it through the lenses of someone who has spent years and years as a social worker and counselor working with children and families this entire time.
There is also no ambiguity as to the child being manipulated, and hiding that is far, far worse than the alternative. There simply is no argument as to whether or not "do what I say or else stuff" is anything but controlling and manipulative. The only room for discussion is if the manipulation and control exerted is in the child's best interest. I have made my case for why I think it is not.
It's hard to say one way or another because we're getting a kid's view of what's happening. And we're probably not getting all the information. But it's always a better tactic to act sane and rational when talking to someone who's manipulative. If you act in kind, it just makes everything that much worse.
On the plus side, if they start screaming about this or that because you're acting kind and not throwing accusations, you have your answer on if they were being manipulative.
OP - just talk to your parents.
That's actually the exact thing I was trying to tell you
You are very biased in this situation, and this bias is causing you to make many assumptions about the OP's situation. The advice you are giving could very negatively impact the OP's relationship with their dad/mom/dad's girlfriend/etc. I think you should take a step back and tone down the rhetoric until/unless we learn more about the situation.
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This was never said. We got a paragraph where he states "she's making me take the computer to my dad's". Which.. I don't know what that means.
Did she said "or else" or did she ask him politely if he would do it? What? We don't have the information to make any of these assumptions.
The counterpoint you are ignoring is that her actions are manipulative. We do not know, yet you continue to assume, she should enjoy the pass we give to parents manipulating their children for their own good despite we have been told she is not the OPs parent.
Further, we know that the stated goal of this manipulation is to increase the time spent at the OPs fathers. I would submit that such actions are highly suspect and not how you go about improving any healthy relationship. She may have laudable goals but trying to build a relationship on manipulation is a huge red flag.
We do. Spend more time at your Dad's or else we are taking to computer from where you willingly spend most of your time. I don't disagree with anything you have suggested, but it takes zero assumptions to see the control and manipulation through gifts here. We just came in at the end after the kid has called the bluff.
Edit: Or if you like, if you want to use that computer you like/need then you better do it over here. Want to take "your" property wherever you like? Meet my demands. All of this is relatively normal from a parent. Parents are often controlling and manipulative with kids and that can be good or bad. She is not a parent.
I have been pulling back. Notice I am only responding to people @ing and quoting me. My last bit of direct advice was a simple analysis of the legal situation which is what has been requested. In fact I have held of any in depth analysis since it appears beyond the purview of the initial request.
Edit: I would also point out my suggestion was to talk to the father here. I am uncertain what part of that needs pulling back?
The presumption of me being the only biased one here is also very interesting. What we know: the op doesn't want to spend time with their father. Your assumption is because the kid just can't be bothered to spend time with family. I assure you, from years of experience, this is the least likely scenario. Consider your own bias and lack of experience.
That being said, what would or would not hold up in a court of law is totally different from what is and isn't cool in the context of your family dynamics, and there's a whole host of things that we folk on the internet can't account for when giving you advice, especially given your short post. I would suggest taking some time to consider how your response would affect your relationship with your family. Ask your mom about it. We can't know the answers because we don't know your family, and you haven't given us anything to go on.
There are a lot of gaps in the story here, and a number of people in this thread are filling them with their own conclusions. Whether or not those are helpful to you, I still suggest talking to your family and not going overboard.
I am not a social worker, but I have worked with kids for pretty much my entire life, and I can say with 100% confidence that unless you have actually stepped into a given situation and tried to unravel it, there is no way you actually know what is going on. Yes, there are patterns and probabilities, but: (a) given the OP is a minor and (b) all we have is this single, ambiguous report, I would caution against jumping to conclusions.
Even assuming that some of you are correct and that there is something going on here, perhaps something that even rises to the level of abuse, I have yet to see any recommendations that a minor can follow through by themselves that would lead to a better, meaningful resolution of the situation beyond "call this lady out on her bullshit", which I can assure you if the situation is dire, will only serve to exacerbate things.
I think what everyone is missing is that both sides are saying the exact same thing and it has devolved into an argument about the OPs life.