And yeah, count me among the people who is annoyed that poison is gimped in DS3 and poison arrows are garbo. Those dragons you have to kill one of to get them off the bridge in loth castle? It took over 40 poison arrows to poison one of them, and by the time it had taken effect, it was 90% dead.
Yes, I know luck would make it apply faster. But dammit, poison arrows are supposed to be the "shoot 3-5 of these into an annoying enemy and let it die" tool. =P
He's suggesting that if you want to 100% collect and keep every item in your inventory, you'd have to do 4 playthroughs, to get the lothric and lorian swords twice each, then combine one set of them into the twin princes sword.
Of course this is silly because you would never want all 3 of those weapons on the same character, and there is no trophy for getting every weapon.
Not silly, I just want every piece of armor and weapon available in the game and four playthroughs is the only way to do that. There's no trophy/achievement for getting every armor piece either, but this desire isn't about trophies/achievements. It's a personal achievement.
I mean, I don't think you're silly for wanting to do a sort of personal achievement to get 100% of the items in the game. I do however think it's silly to complain about having to do NG+++ to do so when it's just a personal thing for you.
Now if there was a single weapon that someone might want for a build that took beyond NG+ to get I'd think that was dumb. As it is, the twin princes greatsword, which isn't even good is the only one that even requires NG+, so I think it's as fair as it can be.
I'm sure From never even considered this whole angle because they wouldn't expect somebody to want to keep all 3 of those in their inventory simultaneously.
Conversely, just get someone to trade you the ones you don't have, unless it's about collecting them all yourself exclusively.
I mean, I don't think you're silly for wanting to do a sort of personal achievement to get 100% of the items in the game. I do however think it's silly to complain about having to do NG+++ to do so when it's just a personal thing for you.
Now if there was a single weapon that someone might want for a build that took beyond NG+ to get I'd think that was dumb. As it is, the twin princes greatsword, which isn't even good is the only one that even requires NG+, so I think it's as fair as it can be.
I'm sure From never even considered this whole angle because they wouldn't expect somebody to want to keep all 3 of those in their inventory simultaneously.
Eh, I'm not really complaining. I just think it's funny/odd that for a complete collection, one single item requires a fourth playthrough. That's noteworthy, at least. By the time I finish NG++ I'm sure I'll know the game well enough that I can rush through, and I'd probably just sequence break.
edit: I guess there's actually one more thing you can do in NG+++ anyway:
Fourth ending - eyes of a Fire Keeper and slash the not-Maiden in Black
And yeah, count me among the people who is annoyed that poison is gimped in DS3 and poison arrows are garbo. Those dragons you have to kill one of to get them off the bridge in loth castle? It took over 40 poison arrows to poison one of them, and by the time it had taken effect, it was 90% dead.
Yes, I know luck would make it apply faster. But dammit, poison arrows are supposed to be the "shoot 3-5 of these into an annoying enemy and let it die" tool. =P
Why would you do that? It would take less time to run the gauntlet and attack the corruption on their hands.
If I was using my irithyll rapier or another faster weapon I wouldn't have gotten hit as much, because I know those weapons don't have the hyper armor to let. me trade freely like my greatsword.
I don't know what point you're trying to make. I already showed you that you can beat champ playing like garbage, and then showed another video of someone beating him at SL1 without even dodging.
The only point I was making is that it's easy to get openings to heal on him, and he doesn't punish mistakes as hard as I've seen some people in this thread suggest he does. Simple as that. And those things are true, and irrelevant.
If you were getting kicked after every attack, you were choosing the wrong times to attack. It also sounds like you think you have to dodge all his attacks which also isn't true. Just be in position where his attacks won't hit you even without dodging and you can punish easily. It's just simply not true that you can't find openings to attack without getting hit. If it was, the video I showed you above of the guy doing it without even rolling would be impossible.
If you want, pick any class of weapon and I'll upgrade it to +5/+10 and beat him on NG++ with it and put that video here too.
My point is that you're saying "Champion Gundyr is so easy; any idiot can facetank every hit and win; if you had trouble with him you must just suck", when that facetank strategy only works IF you have the Profaned Greatsword and IF you have a build that can use it and IF you chose it for upgrades and IF you encounter Gundyr for the first time and actually think, "Do you know what I need for this fight? A slower weapon!" My desire to use slow weapons against new bosses had been beaten out of me by this point.
The youtube video is irrelevant because who the fuck would think to do that? Who encounters a boss in Dark Souls and thinks, "Oh, I understand, I have to sprint around him in circles and never dodge"? No other fight in DS3 expects you to do something that. No other fight in the SERIES expects you to do something like that. It's cute that it's a thing you can do but it has no bearing on the typical player experience. YOU certainly didn't figure it out. You spam-rolled and ate like a hundred hits even when you weren't going for attacks. (You can also parry him apparently, but parrying bosses is another thing I'm not naturally inclined to try.)
Go fight him with a longsword playing like a normal person who doesn't google hitbox analysis videos and see how easy it is to find openings. If you roll through attacks like you do against every other boss, your roll recovery frames are long enough that there isn't enough time left to safely attack in between one of his swings and his kick. (If I really hated you I'd tell you to use a claymore, but there's plenty of obvious in-game evidence pointing to the fact that standard greatswords are rather poor in DS3, so I wouldn't actually expect an unspoiled player to think that's a smart idea.)
Wyvern on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
What the fuuuuuuuuck is up with Irithyll. I beat Abyss in like 5 attempts and the entire next area and boss with 2 deaths.
I can't get past the first 3 enemies in this area. I beat one of them two times but that's as far I got.
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
Conversely, just get someone to trade you the ones you don't have, unless it's about collecting them all yourself exclusively.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole trading thing.
Dark Souls is about hard work and endless grinding. If I'm having fun I'm not having fun. And if I'm not having fun I'm having fun. If I'm not not having fun then I'm just not having fun. But once I drink all the dark soups this game has to offer I will finally be able to rid it from my bones.
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So I can build my new character around it!
I am deeply in love with how the Hollowslayer Greatsword's 2H attack sequence looks.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
You need a fast weapon that can hit them while they're winding up. They're also weak to fire. And try to kite them one at a time back to the bridge or bonfire area so you can hit them a couple times from range.
They're not much worse than the dual sword guys from the catacombs.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So I can build my new character around it!
Either my Dark Sword or my Heavy Dark Sword or my Sharp Dark Sword or my Refined Dark Sword or my Raw Dark Sword or my Crystal Dark Sword or my Simple Dark Sword or my Fire Dark Sword or my Chaos Dark Sword or my Lightning Dark Sword or my Blessed Dark Sword or my Deep Dark Sword or my Reinforced Dark Sword or my Blood Dark Sword or my Poison Dark Sword or my Hollow Dark Sword or my Avelyn.
Speaking of Fashion Souls, though, probably my favorite outfit is the Firelink set but with the Catarina Helm subbed in. It looks so goddamn goofy.
Actually, I haven't used it in awhile, but I think the Irithyll Straight Sword is probably my favorite. The Avelyn is pretty goddamned awesome, though. I even whip it out for the final boss.
If I was using my irithyll rapier or another faster weapon I wouldn't have gotten hit as much, because I know those weapons don't have the hyper armor to let. me trade freely like my greatsword.
I don't know what point you're trying to make. I already showed you that you can beat champ playing like garbage, and then showed another video of someone beating him at SL1 without even dodging.
The only point I was making is that it's easy to get openings to heal on him, and he doesn't punish mistakes as hard as I've seen some people in this thread suggest he does. Simple as that. And those things are true, and irrelevant.
If you were getting kicked after every attack, you were choosing the wrong times to attack. It also sounds like you think you have to dodge all his attacks which also isn't true. Just be in position where his attacks won't hit you even without dodging and you can punish easily. It's just simply not true that you can't find openings to attack without getting hit. If it was, the video I showed you above of the guy doing it without even rolling would be impossible.
If you want, pick any class of weapon and I'll upgrade it to +5/+10 and beat him on NG++ with it and put that video here too.
My point is that you're saying "Champion Gundyr is so easy; any idiot can facetank every hit and win; if you had trouble with him you must just suck", when that facetank strategy only works IF you have the Profaned Greatsword and IF you have a build that can use it and IF you chose it for upgrades and IF you encounter Gundyr for the first time and actually think, "Do you know what I need for this fight? A slower weapon!" My desire to use slow weapons against new bosses had been beaten out of me by this point.
The youtube video is irrelevant because who the fuck would think to do that? Who encounters a boss in Dark Souls and thinks, "Oh, I understand, I have to sprint around him in circles and never dodge"? No other fight in DS3 expects you to do something that. No other fight in the SERIES expects you to do something like that. It's cute that it's a thing you can do but it has no bearing on the typical player experience. YOU certainly didn't figure it out. You spam-rolled and ate like a hundred hits even when you weren't going for attacks. (You can also parry him apparently, but parrying bosses is another thing I'm not naturally inclined to try.)
Go fight him with a longsword playing like a normal person who doesn't google hitbox analysis videos and see how easy it is to find openings. If you roll through attacks like you do against every other boss, your roll recovery frames are long enough that there isn't enough time left to safely attack in between one of his swings and his kick. (If I really hated you I'd tell you to use a claymore, but there's plenty of obvious in-game evidence pointing to the fact that standard greatswords are rather poor in DS3, so I wouldn't actually expect an unspoiled player to think that's a smart idea.)
I've always been a Greatword user in these games. In DS1 and DS2, they were king. In DS2, my build was around Power Stance, dual wielding Greatswords - first Bastard Swords, then Claymores. In DS1, I was all about the shield (I think Dragon Crest for both DS1 and DS2) + Claymore.
Here, I just can't get into them. Partly that's because Straight Swords seem to have gotten a massive bump in usefulness, and not just the Dark Sword.
If I was using my irithyll rapier or another faster weapon I wouldn't have gotten hit as much, because I know those weapons don't have the hyper armor to let. me trade freely like my greatsword.
I don't know what point you're trying to make. I already showed you that you can beat champ playing like garbage, and then showed another video of someone beating him at SL1 without even dodging.
The only point I was making is that it's easy to get openings to heal on him, and he doesn't punish mistakes as hard as I've seen some people in this thread suggest he does. Simple as that. And those things are true, and irrelevant.
If you were getting kicked after every attack, you were choosing the wrong times to attack. It also sounds like you think you have to dodge all his attacks which also isn't true. Just be in position where his attacks won't hit you even without dodging and you can punish easily. It's just simply not true that you can't find openings to attack without getting hit. If it was, the video I showed you above of the guy doing it without even rolling would be impossible.
If you want, pick any class of weapon and I'll upgrade it to +5/+10 and beat him on NG++ with it and put that video here too.
My point is that you're saying "Champion Gundyr is so easy; any idiot can facetank every hit and win; if you had trouble with him you must just suck", when that facetank strategy only works IF you have the Profaned Greatsword and IF you have a build that can use it and IF you chose it for upgrades and IF you encounter Gundyr for the first time and actually think, "Do you know what I need for this fight? A slower weapon!" My desire to use slow weapons against new bosses had been beaten out of me by this point.
The youtube video is irrelevant because who the fuck would think to do that? Who encounters a boss in Dark Souls and thinks, "Oh, I understand, I have to sprint around him in circles and never dodge"? No other fight in DS3 expects you to do something that. No other fight in the SERIES expects you to do something like that. It's cute that it's a thing you can do but it has no bearing on the typical player experience. YOU certainly didn't figure it out. You spam-rolled and ate like a hundred hits even when you weren't going for attacks. (You can also parry him apparently, but parrying bosses is another thing I'm not naturally inclined to try.)
Go fight him with a longsword playing like a normal person who doesn't google hitbox analysis videos and see how easy it is to find openings. If you roll through attacks like you do against every other boss, your roll recovery frames are long enough that there isn't enough time left to safely attack in between one of his swings and his kick. (If I really hated you I'd tell you to use a claymore, but there's plenty of obvious in-game evidence pointing to the fact that standard greatswords are rather poor in DS3, so I wouldn't actually expect an unspoiled player to think that's a smart idea.)
This is actually a teachable moment, right here. Champion isn't the only boss you can use this strategy on; it works on all of them. It works not just on every boss, but every regular enemy as well. Without going too far into it, Dark Souls was developed with a fighting game system, basically. You have vulnerable start up frames, acive frames, and recovery frames.
Rolling is a trade off. You are getting invincible frames and extra distance baseline. You are giving up an awful lot of recovery frames in the trade. It is always better to not take that trade if you can avoid the attack without it. If you don't roll, you have more time to attack enemies in their recovery frames. If your spacing is on point, you also have more time to attack them in their start up and sometimes even active frames (though this is harder in ds3 with more advanced enemy tracking).
From there it gets complicated and it would take a long time to explain if you don't know a lot about fighting game mechanics. In short, some of their moves have more recovery than others. Not every missed attack is a counter attack opportunity, especially if you traded your turn to attack for a roll.
Ideally a roll should only be used to close distance quickly, and timed so that you recovery with enough time to either attack or get into an advantaged position. The exception to this is if you aren't concerned with countering at all, and just want to avoid a huge attack with I frames helping you.
So, yeah. I would argue that spacing, timing, blocking, and counter attack actually IS the game, mechanically speaking. The better you can apply those concepts, the faster you will improve.
@Honk try beating to a pulp. All of the Irithyll-police are glassjaws, and stagger easily, but are pretty aggressive instead. When you get to the ones with spear-things, standing close to them makes the big poke miss, but their magic is very homing so it's good to interrupt them.
We sort of have confirmation that the pus of man is abyss corruption related to the fire fading, because the key to the grand archives says something like "The scholars locked down the archives to avoid the spreading pus of man, as the fire faded."
Also, another DS2 connection in DS3:
Lothric, the only one of the lords of cinder to feel like linking the flame is pointless and doing so still leaves you cursed was tutored by "the first of the scholars" who "doubted the linking of the flame."
That's clearly Aldia.
What I want to know is why did Gwynevere peace out of being queen of Lothric unexpectedly? Maybe running away is just part of who she is?
On that spoiler
I'm pretty sure she didn't do so willingly. The Queen of Lothric used to visit the Untended Graves, and in fact, she was one of the only ones who did so. Shrine Handmaid in Dark Firelink says that maybe you were captured "Like that girl".
We all know Ludleth did some shit to bring back the First Flame after it went out, since he, you know, tells you this.
I am 100% sure the Queen of Lothric was part of that plan, and is probably the Firekeeper, memory wiped and tied to the false Firelink Shrine and the First Flame.
I took that line about being trapped if you take to long to mean:
That the firekeeper is trapped in new-firelink until somebody deals with this first flame business.
I don't think I agree that the Queen of Lothric is the firekeeper. I think the divine blessing wording connections pretty much confirm that Gwynevere was the queen of Lothric, and I think her whole goddess of fertility thing just means she goes around joining kingdoms, making babies, then rolling out to the next one.
You see
I don't think that Gwenevere=The Queen of Lothric=The Firekeeper are all mutually exclusive.
I mean, it's a reach, I admit, but then why specifically put items related to the Queen of Lothric in the Untended Graves?
Why does the Handmaid mentioned being captured "Like that girl"? I mean, sure, it could just reference the Firekeeper.
But Firekeeper this time around, is SUPER sketchy. The constant need to re-enforce that she too, is a Firekeeper. Her being able to use the eyes of a DIFFERENT Firekeeper and even take in another Firekeeper's soul with no ill effects.
The fact that she can drop down a summon sign to be pulled into the Kiln and manipulate the First Flame.
It's just super suspicious is all, and goes way way beyond what we've previously known Firekeeper's to be capable of.
I actually have some weird ideas brewing about the queen of Lothric putting the ash estus ring there and wanting to take care of the untended graves because they're somehow related to her son Lothric not wanting to/not linking the flame when he was supposed to.
I haven't been able to put it all together, but I definitely think there's more to figure out.
I also want to know if there's something to the fact that Ludleth's final item you get off him is the skull ring that references coming from the soul of a soulfeeder, and Ludleth himself is always thirsty for twisted souls. There's more to him that I don't understand yet, and I can't figure out just how nefarious he might be and what he has to do with the firelink that's our hub.
I think this is something that Vatiividya put out there, everyone accepts, but is actually plain wrong.
The skull ring is described as "One of Courland's transposed wonders.
Derived from the soul of a Soulfeeder."
So, first of all, unless Ludleth somehow transposed his own fucking Soul, I just don't see it happening.
Second of all, why isn't it much more likely that it's just another transposed item? We know that's what Ludleth can do, and I think it's not too far fetched to assume that he wasn't the only person in Courland to manage the art of soul transposition, especially when there are appearantly many such items originating in Courland.
So really, the easiest explanation would be that either Ludleth himself or someone from Courland just transposed the soul of the Soulfeeder at some point. As to why he keeps that ring of all things, that's a different question, and it's possibly not a coincidence. Or maybe it's just something that was useless to everyone and when he took off that's all he could take without rousing suspicion. Who knows!
I think you misunderstood what I said.
I don't think the skull ring is referencing Ludleth being the soulfeeder. It's clear that he transposed the ring from the soul of a soulfeeder. It's just interesting that the game chooses to give you it in the first place, and I wonder if his interactions with the soul feeder in question(whatever that is) influenced him somehow, and that's why he's always asking for twisted souls. He likes messing with souls too much, that's all. =P
Think that's pretty much covered by "transposing nerd".
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So I can build my new character around it!
Contrary to what I might be implying in the Gundyr argument, I do really love the Profane Greatsword. Charged two-handed R2s from that thing are a war crime, especially with the cool fire effect to drive the point home. I got my Sunlight Medals mostly by helping people with Aldrich in full brass set with the Profane Greatsword in hand and the Sunless Shield on my back. Too bad the hosts couldn't appreciate how good the color coordination was. All those brassy hues on everything.
For most of the late game I was wearing Dancer or Artorias chest, Fire Witch or Lorian leggings, and the Pharis cap (gauntlets varied due to weight constraints). Early game was mostly built off of Abyss Watcher or Fire Keeper sets. Profane Greatsword against most things, Longsword or Estoc against most bosses and some other situations. I used to use spears sometimes but outgrew them later on. I wasn't as big a fan of the Dark Sword as other people are (it's solid but losing the longsword thrust hurts too much). A lot of the Black Knight weapons looked like they had potential but I haven't experimented with them much yet. I also didn't mess with the paired weapons as much as I might have. Or weapon arts in general.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So I can build my new character around it!
It is amazingly satisfying to gut someone with Ornspear's 2h weapon art and oneshot them.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
The games have never relied on a fighting game level of needing to know recovery frames and specific animation speeds. Maybe those mechanics are in there for people who want to dig deep into it, but they weren't necessary to beat encounters.
I don't really care about the tradeoff to dodging because the alternative to dodging is getting hit, and if I get hit I won't be attacking at all vs. attacking slower after the dodge roll. If I get hit I take a ton of damage, more damage than in that video, and then I need to heal. While i'm healing I get hit again and eventually these sequences repeat themselves until I die.
how to irythil: roll behind the enemies and backstab them
fight em one at a time
or realize the futility of existence and run past everything becaues fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck those pyromancer dudes
You can mostly disarm the pyromancers with smart pulling. For the first one, pull all the hollows waaaaay back. For the second one, rush it down before the Pontiff Knights come around the bend. For the trio in the chapel just go around the back way and don't fuck with them at all (I made THAT mistake the first time through).
The first three Pontiff Knights immediately after the bridge might actually be the roughest part of the whole zone, funnily enough.
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So I can build my new character around it!
I REALLY like my spear. I've been using it on this character (cleric\pyro hybrid) since the beginning of the game. It was fire infused, now lightning. Making an enemy miss and giving them a foot of spear for being sloppy is great fun.
I'm also using the astora longsword raw and enchanted with the fire spell. It packs a pretty decent punch, and looks sweet to boot.
The games have never relied on a fighting game level of needing to know recovery frames and specific animation speeds. Maybe those mechanics are in there for people who want to dig deep into it, but they weren't necessary to beat encounters.
I don't really care about the tradeoff to dodging because the alternative to dodging is getting hit, and if I get hit I won't be attacking at all vs. attacking slower after the dodge roll. If I get hit I take a ton of damage, more damage than in that video, and then I need to heal. While i'm healing I get hit again and eventually these sequences repeat themselves until I die.
It's not the game's fault if it presents you with an optional opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of the mechanics and you don't take it.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
The games have never relied on a fighting game level of needing to know recovery frames and specific animation speeds. Maybe those mechanics are in there for people who want to dig deep into it, but they weren't necessary to beat encounters.
I don't really care about the tradeoff to dodging because the alternative to dodging is getting hit, and if I get hit I won't be attacking at all vs. attacking slower after the dodge roll. If I get hit I take a ton of damage, more damage than in that video, and then I need to heal. While i'm healing I get hit again and eventually these sequences repeat themselves until I die.
One funny thing about this game is that different people seem to have RADICALLY different experiences of a lot of bosses for reasons that I don't quite understand. I kept seeing people say how Crystal Sage or Aldrich were huge roadblocks for them, and I thought for sure that they had to be being sarcastic at first because I thought they were both in the running for top few easiest bosses in the series.
If I was using my irithyll rapier or another faster weapon I wouldn't have gotten hit as much, because I know those weapons don't have the hyper armor to let. me trade freely like my greatsword.
I don't know what point you're trying to make. I already showed you that you can beat champ playing like garbage, and then showed another video of someone beating him at SL1 without even dodging.
The only point I was making is that it's easy to get openings to heal on him, and he doesn't punish mistakes as hard as I've seen some people in this thread suggest he does. Simple as that. And those things are true, and irrelevant.
If you were getting kicked after every attack, you were choosing the wrong times to attack. It also sounds like you think you have to dodge all his attacks which also isn't true. Just be in position where his attacks won't hit you even without dodging and you can punish easily. It's just simply not true that you can't find openings to attack without getting hit. If it was, the video I showed you above of the guy doing it without even rolling would be impossible.
If you want, pick any class of weapon and I'll upgrade it to +5/+10 and beat him on NG++ with it and put that video here too.
My point is that you're saying "Champion Gundyr is so easy; any idiot can facetank every hit and win; if you had trouble with him you must just suck", when that facetank strategy only works IF you have the Profaned Greatsword and IF you have a build that can use it and IF you chose it for upgrades and IF you encounter Gundyr for the first time and actually think, "Do you know what I need for this fight? A slower weapon!" My desire to use slow weapons against new bosses had been beaten out of me by this point.
The youtube video is irrelevant because who the fuck would think to do that? Who encounters a boss in Dark Souls and thinks, "Oh, I understand, I have to sprint around him in circles and never dodge"? No other fight in DS3 expects you to do something that. No other fight in the SERIES expects you to do something like that. It's cute that it's a thing you can do but it has no bearing on the typical player experience. YOU certainly didn't figure it out. You spam-rolled and ate like a hundred hits even when you weren't going for attacks. (You can also parry him apparently, but parrying bosses is another thing I'm not naturally inclined to try.)
Go fight him with a longsword playing like a normal person who doesn't google hitbox analysis videos and see how easy it is to find openings. If you roll through attacks like you do against every other boss, your roll recovery frames are long enough that there isn't enough time left to safely attack in between one of his swings and his kick. (If I really hated you I'd tell you to use a claymore, but there's plenty of obvious in-game evidence pointing to the fact that standard greatswords are rather poor in DS3, so I wouldn't actually expect an unspoiled player to think that's a smart idea.)
And I beat the champ on my first try with a +8 Carthus Curved Sword. One of only four bosses that I one-shot. Just didn't find him to be a challenge at all. But we all have different experiences, you know?
In other news, now that I've FINALLY finished the game AND caught up on the thread... I love this game. It's probably the most fun and challenging Dark Souls (not counting Bloodborne) that I've played.
My one complaint is that it just couldn't stop with the DS1 callbacks. The parts that stood alone and were unique to this game? Great! The parts that made subtle callbacks to Demon's Souls, DS2 and Bloodborne? Fantastic! Constantly shoving DS1 down my throat every fucking couple of minutes because oh-ho you remember... (huge lore spoilers)
Darkroot, Dusk, Elizabeth, Sif, Lost Izalith, Quelana, Anor Londo, the archers, Gwyndolin, Andre, fucking copy paste last boss fucking Gwen and on and on and on because (extremely crass)
we can't get enough of sucking DS1's dick?
WOO... fuck... Ranting done. Sorry.
I honestly loved everything else though and can get over it because it's just so much fun.
If I was using my irithyll rapier or another faster weapon I wouldn't have gotten hit as much, because I know those weapons don't have the hyper armor to let. me trade freely like my greatsword.
I don't know what point you're trying to make. I already showed you that you can beat champ playing like garbage, and then showed another video of someone beating him at SL1 without even dodging.
The only point I was making is that it's easy to get openings to heal on him, and he doesn't punish mistakes as hard as I've seen some people in this thread suggest he does. Simple as that. And those things are true, and irrelevant.
If you were getting kicked after every attack, you were choosing the wrong times to attack. It also sounds like you think you have to dodge all his attacks which also isn't true. Just be in position where his attacks won't hit you even without dodging and you can punish easily. It's just simply not true that you can't find openings to attack without getting hit. If it was, the video I showed you above of the guy doing it without even rolling would be impossible.
If you want, pick any class of weapon and I'll upgrade it to +5/+10 and beat him on NG++ with it and put that video here too.
My point is that you're saying "Champion Gundyr is so easy; any idiot can facetank every hit and win; if you had trouble with him you must just suck", when that facetank strategy only works IF you have the Profaned Greatsword and IF you have a build that can use it and IF you chose it for upgrades and IF you encounter Gundyr for the first time and actually think, "Do you know what I need for this fight? A slower weapon!" My desire to use slow weapons against new bosses had been beaten out of me by this point.
The youtube video is irrelevant because who the fuck would think to do that? Who encounters a boss in Dark Souls and thinks, "Oh, I understand, I have to sprint around him in circles and never dodge"? No other fight in DS3 expects you to do something that. No other fight in the SERIES expects you to do something like that. It's cute that it's a thing you can do but it has no bearing on the typical player experience. YOU certainly didn't figure it out. You spam-rolled and ate like a hundred hits even when you weren't going for attacks. (You can also parry him apparently, but parrying bosses is another thing I'm not naturally inclined to try.)
Go fight him with a longsword playing like a normal person who doesn't google hitbox analysis videos and see how easy it is to find openings. If you roll through attacks like you do against every other boss, your roll recovery frames are long enough that there isn't enough time left to safely attack in between one of his swings and his kick. (If I really hated you I'd tell you to use a claymore, but there's plenty of obvious in-game evidence pointing to the fact that standard greatswords are rather poor in DS3, so I wouldn't actually expect an unspoiled player to think that's a smart idea.)
Okay, so first of all I didn't say if somebody has trouble with Gundyr they suck. I don't believe that at all. I was just pointing out that he has openings to punish his attacks and to back off and heal if you need to, because some in the thread were suggesting that he didn't give you those two things.
And second, I think we can all agree that most of us are not going to beat Gundyr SL1 with no dodging no healing.
So I did what you asked. I just ran to Gundyr and killed him on my NG++ run but this time using my +5 Irithyll rapier. Irithyll is strictly worse than straight swords, which is what you suggested I use. You can 100% attack and then dodge out before getting kicked or shouldered, as shown in the video.
I intentionally hit him with rolling R1s, non rolling R1s, and even R2s just to show that it's really not that hard to get openings and kill him, even when not using an UGS. UGS weapons are way weaker than straight swords anyway, so I don't know why you're trying to suggest the fight is easier with profaned that say a dark sword or a lothric knight sword. It's not. Those weapons don't lock you into longer animations that get you hit.
So this and Bloodborne have given me an itch. I have a couple of questions for ya'll. As someone who really enjoys the gameplay of Dark Souls III and Bloodborne, how much "slower" is the other game's combat really? Would someone who loved these games and their quick speed really enjoy, say, Dark Souls I?
A related question; can I use a PS4 controller to play the first Dark Souls game on Steam?
The games have never relied on a fighting game level of needing to know recovery frames and specific animation speeds. Maybe those mechanics are in there for people who want to dig deep into it, but they weren't necessary to beat encounters.
I don't really care about the tradeoff to dodging because the alternative to dodging is getting hit, and if I get hit I won't be attacking at all vs. attacking slower after the dodge roll. If I get hit I take a ton of damage, more damage than in that video, and then I need to heal. While i'm healing I get hit again and eventually these sequences repeat themselves until I die.
One funny thing about this game is that different people seem to have RADICALLY different experiences of a lot of bosses for reasons that I don't quite understand. I kept seeing people say how Crystal Sage or Aldrich were huge roadblocks for them, and I thought for sure that they had to be being sarcastic at first because I thought they were both in the running for top few easiest bosses in the series.
It is rather interesting. Aldrich took me like ten attempts, because of that damned arrow rain that ran faster than my character did at a sprint. But the Twin Princes, which so many people seem to have trouble with, I beat first try without the slightest difficulty. It probably speaks to the degree of freedom of approach Souls games generally cause. Different people go at things entirely differently and so find their usual behaviours countered by different points.
Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1, and Dark Souls 2 are all good games that are still good if you've played BB and DS3. They are a LOT slower than Bloodborne though, and quite a bit slower than DS3.
If you want to simulate BB or DS3, play a shieldless roll only build with a fast weapon.
Enough of whatever you're all talking about! It's boring. Let's talk about something interesting!
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So this and Bloodborne have given me an itch. I have a couple of questions for ya'll. As someone who really enjoys the gameplay of Dark Souls III and Bloodborne, how much "slower" is the other game's combat really? Would someone who loved these games and their quick speed really enjoy, say, Dark Souls I?
A related question; can I use a PS4 controller to play the first Dark Souls game on Steam?
It's my opinion, but the farther you go back the slower and worse the combat gets. For example, in DS1 you can only roll in four directions.
Storm King is fucking dumb with thrust weapons. There's about no opportunity to ever land a hit. Such a terrible fight.
I tried a ton of different weapons against the Storm King phase of that fight and it turned out to not matter at all. You'd think weapons with longer reach would have more opportunities, but nope. There are exactly two times you can get reasonable damage in: sprinting in while the grounded fire breath is charging, and after rolling through a lightning stake. Don't even try at any other time. It's not really that hard, but it's boring and can take a long time.
Posts
Yes, I know luck would make it apply faster. But dammit, poison arrows are supposed to be the "shoot 3-5 of these into an annoying enemy and let it die" tool. =P
Not silly, I just want every piece of armor and weapon available in the game and four playthroughs is the only way to do that. There's no trophy/achievement for getting every armor piece either, but this desire isn't about trophies/achievements. It's a personal achievement.
Now if there was a single weapon that someone might want for a build that took beyond NG+ to get I'd think that was dumb. As it is, the twin princes greatsword, which isn't even good is the only one that even requires NG+, so I think it's as fair as it can be.
I'm sure From never even considered this whole angle because they wouldn't expect somebody to want to keep all 3 of those in their inventory simultaneously.
Conversely, just get someone to trade you the ones you don't have, unless it's about collecting them all yourself exclusively.
Eh, I'm not really complaining. I just think it's funny/odd that for a complete collection, one single item requires a fourth playthrough. That's noteworthy, at least. By the time I finish NG++ I'm sure I'll know the game well enough that I can rush through, and I'd probably just sequence break.
edit: I guess there's actually one more thing you can do in NG+++ anyway:
Why would you do that? It would take less time to run the gauntlet and attack the corruption on their hands.
The youtube video is irrelevant because who the fuck would think to do that? Who encounters a boss in Dark Souls and thinks, "Oh, I understand, I have to sprint around him in circles and never dodge"? No other fight in DS3 expects you to do something that. No other fight in the SERIES expects you to do something like that. It's cute that it's a thing you can do but it has no bearing on the typical player experience. YOU certainly didn't figure it out. You spam-rolled and ate like a hundred hits even when you weren't going for attacks. (You can also parry him apparently, but parrying bosses is another thing I'm not naturally inclined to try.)
Go fight him with a longsword playing like a normal person who doesn't google hitbox analysis videos and see how easy it is to find openings. If you roll through attacks like you do against every other boss, your roll recovery frames are long enough that there isn't enough time left to safely attack in between one of his swings and his kick. (If I really hated you I'd tell you to use a claymore, but there's plenty of obvious in-game evidence pointing to the fact that standard greatswords are rather poor in DS3, so I wouldn't actually expect an unspoiled player to think that's a smart idea.)
I can't get past the first 3 enemies in this area. I beat one of them two times but that's as far I got.
Like, what's the most fun weapon in the game? What weapon just gives you that visceral satisfaction to swing? Possesses that cool factor, so very Fashion Souls?
So I can build my new character around it!
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole trading thing.
Dark Souls is about hard work and endless grinding. If I'm having fun I'm not having fun. And if I'm not having fun I'm having fun. If I'm not not having fun then I'm just not having fun. But once I drink all the dark soups this game has to offer I will finally be able to rid it from my bones.
I am deeply in love with how the Hollowslayer Greatsword's 2H attack sequence looks.
They're not much worse than the dual sword guys from the catacombs.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Either my Dark Sword or my Heavy Dark Sword or my Sharp Dark Sword or my Refined Dark Sword or my Raw Dark Sword or my Crystal Dark Sword or my Simple Dark Sword or my Fire Dark Sword or my Chaos Dark Sword or my Lightning Dark Sword or my Blessed Dark Sword or my Deep Dark Sword or my Reinforced Dark Sword or my Blood Dark Sword or my Poison Dark Sword or my Hollow Dark Sword or my Avelyn.
Speaking of Fashion Souls, though, probably my favorite outfit is the Firelink set but with the Catarina Helm subbed in. It looks so goddamn goofy.
Use as a fast weapon like the Irithyll Straight Sword.
Welcome to the party pal!
I've always been a Greatword user in these games. In DS1 and DS2, they were king. In DS2, my build was around Power Stance, dual wielding Greatswords - first Bastard Swords, then Claymores. In DS1, I was all about the shield (I think Dragon Crest for both DS1 and DS2) + Claymore.
Here, I just can't get into them. Partly that's because Straight Swords seem to have gotten a massive bump in usefulness, and not just the Dark Sword.
This is actually a teachable moment, right here. Champion isn't the only boss you can use this strategy on; it works on all of them. It works not just on every boss, but every regular enemy as well. Without going too far into it, Dark Souls was developed with a fighting game system, basically. You have vulnerable start up frames, acive frames, and recovery frames.
Rolling is a trade off. You are getting invincible frames and extra distance baseline. You are giving up an awful lot of recovery frames in the trade. It is always better to not take that trade if you can avoid the attack without it. If you don't roll, you have more time to attack enemies in their recovery frames. If your spacing is on point, you also have more time to attack them in their start up and sometimes even active frames (though this is harder in ds3 with more advanced enemy tracking).
From there it gets complicated and it would take a long time to explain if you don't know a lot about fighting game mechanics. In short, some of their moves have more recovery than others. Not every missed attack is a counter attack opportunity, especially if you traded your turn to attack for a roll.
Ideally a roll should only be used to close distance quickly, and timed so that you recovery with enough time to either attack or get into an advantaged position. The exception to this is if you aren't concerned with countering at all, and just want to avoid a huge attack with I frames helping you.
So, yeah. I would argue that spacing, timing, blocking, and counter attack actually IS the game, mechanically speaking. The better you can apply those concepts, the faster you will improve.
fight em one at a time
or realize the futility of existence and run past everything becaues fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck those pyromancer dudes
For most of the late game I was wearing Dancer or Artorias chest, Fire Witch or Lorian leggings, and the Pharis cap (gauntlets varied due to weight constraints). Early game was mostly built off of Abyss Watcher or Fire Keeper sets. Profane Greatsword against most things, Longsword or Estoc against most bosses and some other situations. I used to use spears sometimes but outgrew them later on. I wasn't as big a fan of the Dark Sword as other people are (it's solid but losing the longsword thrust hurts too much). A lot of the Black Knight weapons looked like they had potential but I haven't experimented with them much yet. I also didn't mess with the paired weapons as much as I might have. Or weapon arts in general.
It is amazingly satisfying to gut someone with Ornspear's 2h weapon art and oneshot them.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I don't really care about the tradeoff to dodging because the alternative to dodging is getting hit, and if I get hit I won't be attacking at all vs. attacking slower after the dodge roll. If I get hit I take a ton of damage, more damage than in that video, and then I need to heal. While i'm healing I get hit again and eventually these sequences repeat themselves until I die.
The first three Pontiff Knights immediately after the bridge might actually be the roughest part of the whole zone, funnily enough.
I REALLY like my spear. I've been using it on this character (cleric\pyro hybrid) since the beginning of the game. It was fire infused, now lightning. Making an enemy miss and giving them a foot of spear for being sloppy is great fun.
I'm also using the astora longsword raw and enchanted with the fire spell. It packs a pretty decent punch, and looks sweet to boot.
It's not the game's fault if it presents you with an optional opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of the mechanics and you don't take it.
And I beat the champ on my first try with a +8 Carthus Curved Sword. One of only four bosses that I one-shot. Just didn't find him to be a challenge at all. But we all have different experiences, you know?
In other news, now that I've FINALLY finished the game AND caught up on the thread... I love this game. It's probably the most fun and challenging Dark Souls (not counting Bloodborne) that I've played.
My one complaint is that it just couldn't stop with the DS1 callbacks. The parts that stood alone and were unique to this game? Great! The parts that made subtle callbacks to Demon's Souls, DS2 and Bloodborne? Fantastic! Constantly shoving DS1 down my throat every fucking couple of minutes because oh-ho you remember... (huge lore spoilers)
I honestly loved everything else though and can get over it because it's just so much fun.
Okay, so first of all I didn't say if somebody has trouble with Gundyr they suck. I don't believe that at all. I was just pointing out that he has openings to punish his attacks and to back off and heal if you need to, because some in the thread were suggesting that he didn't give you those two things.
And second, I think we can all agree that most of us are not going to beat Gundyr SL1 with no dodging no healing.
So I did what you asked. I just ran to Gundyr and killed him on my NG++ run but this time using my +5 Irithyll rapier. Irithyll is strictly worse than straight swords, which is what you suggested I use. You can 100% attack and then dodge out before getting kicked or shouldered, as shown in the video.
I intentionally hit him with rolling R1s, non rolling R1s, and even R2s just to show that it's really not that hard to get openings and kill him, even when not using an UGS. UGS weapons are way weaker than straight swords anyway, so I don't know why you're trying to suggest the fight is easier with profaned that say a dark sword or a lothric knight sword. It's not. Those weapons don't lock you into longer animations that get you hit.
Anyway, here's the fight:
A related question; can I use a PS4 controller to play the first Dark Souls game on Steam?
It is rather interesting. Aldrich took me like ten attempts, because of that damned arrow rain that ran faster than my character did at a sprint. But the Twin Princes, which so many people seem to have trouble with, I beat first try without the slightest difficulty. It probably speaks to the degree of freedom of approach Souls games generally cause. Different people go at things entirely differently and so find their usual behaviours countered by different points.
If you want to simulate BB or DS3, play a shieldless roll only build with a fast weapon.
Bestoc
It's my opinion, but the farther you go back the slower and worse the combat gets. For example, in DS1 you can only roll in four directions.
no bullshit
okay the charge is maybe a little bullshit
but only a little
That was cool I found two, I tried to use it to fight crabs! Unsurprisingly I died though! :P
1) Summon phantoms
2) Enter the fog gate
3) Stay away and try not to get aggro, and if you do roll to the other side of the fogged area
Duh.