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[DAWN OF WAR] Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III ANNOUNCED
Hmm I kind of see it going the other way. If I see my opponent with out any big elites I get very confident that I will win so long as I don't die before escalation phase 4. Big elites 4 life.
Any tips for Mission 13? I got swarmed from all side and could never get enough resources to build much of anything. I guess now I know you only need 2 down to move forward, so I should probably grab the other troops before finishing off the 2nd objective.
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Trajan45
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Any tips for Mission 13? I got swarmed from all side and could never get enough resources to build much of anything. I guess now I know you only need 2 down to move forward, so I should probably grab the other troops before finishing off the 2nd objective.
Make sure you scour the map for extra units, and release both captive groups. Stick your Dire Avengers and Dark Reapers in the bubbles, keep the Shadow Spectres, Macha and Ronahn back in the centre. Mostly focus on using your Banshees to run around using Q on clumped enemies, and always try and intercept Wraithguard and enemy Banshees asap. In a pinch, use Macha's Q-W-Q combo.
It's helpful to bring Wraithlord as the third Elite, and to use the west or east spawns, rather than the north one (i.e. go to one of them second).
Yeah I had the Wraithlord but never got enough elite points to spawn him. Should you make sure to destroy the web ways? Does that slow down the onslaught?
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Trajan45
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I think they just respawn. I ignored them and just focused on killing the units.
Us the East or West to be your defense base. Put shooters like folks said in the pits. I think I went with Jain Zar for my extra elite. She just shreds Eldar but takes some micro.
I just watched an insane game on HelpHans' stream. He literally built an insane amount of Kans. Also dreads. He used the teleport back to base to keep his team alive. It was crazy. I hope he post a video.
Surrendering is in, most of the rest is bug fixes, and some people are reporting performance increases.
Unfortunately, they've broken the monitor selection for some users (me included), so it can't open on the primary monitor, for some reason. Also seems to be stuck in some sort of pseudo windowed mode for the other two friends I'm playing with.
Some useful guidance and information from the dev team about how multiplayer is balanced at a very a basic level. I am 80 hours deep and had no idea unit maintenance existed...
Some useful guidance and information from the dev team about how multiplayer is balanced at a very a basic level. I am 80 hours deep and had no idea unit maintenance existed...
So the one thing that really mystifies me is the resource bonus for killing shield generators. They've designed so much of the game around being able to recover from early losses, yet the dominant strategy now is to rush the shield generator to get a huge resource bonus early.
That seems.....counter intuitive.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Part of the issue is certain strategies being effective at killing Gens early; Striking Scorp crits (er, T1 true damage, what?), ASMs with Power Swords (again, T1 true damage, what?), and Killa Kan rocket barrages, which come at a more appropriate time, but are still pretty silly.
I'm also not 100% sold on getting bonuses for killing more than one objective of a type (killing second/third Gen rewards just as much as the first).
Yeah, it seems like they really need to patch that down. Either that or the escalation phases and such are pointless -- I think they're a great idea, so I would like for them not to be. Do you want the winning team to snowball 3 minutes in or not?
Hm, I am completely miserable at this game. Like, struggling with the third campaign mission bad. But I feel like the game gives such little feedback I have no idea what I am doing right or wrong.
So I had the longest most eternal 3v3 ever. It was an hour long. Just felt like an eternal where are my allies game. I even got down 2 out of 3 shield generators, one of the turrets, and got the enemy core to half health using a push mostly that was me and good drops. Assaults with swords were the key to that.
I just felt most of the games recently have been me carrying a team heavily and then losing. No matter what I do I can't make up for some teammates. Like the 1 hour game, I killed all the objectives and had 440 units killed verse my allies that were 220 and 300.
I had a game where I had 200 enemy units killed and one of my allies had 33.
33
How is that possible?
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Quite possibly they gave up, or alternatively, they're just not good at gauging engagements. I see that a lot; people jumping ASMs into three times their number of Shootas, because melee counters ranged, right?
As a slight aside, the Kill count is pretty silly. Orks inflate kills and deaths a lot, while SMs are much lower on both.
Quite possibly they gave up, or alternatively, they're just not good at gauging engagements. I see that a lot; people jumping ASMs into three times their number of Shootas, because melee counters ranged, right?
As a slight aside, the Kill count is pretty silly. Orks inflate kills and deaths a lot, while SMs are much lower on both.
This is true but it evens out over long games. Or it should, this isn't 1v1. I have watched a lot of bads at this point and I am starting to figure when I have to fight on all three fronts because we are basically down one.
Also kill counts in a lot of 3v3 even out because everyone moves down the middle at each other a lot. This was more just me being annoyed. It is really frustrating to take out a lot of the opponents but your allies not doing any follow up or trying to do follow up.
So I had the longest most eternal 3v3 ever. It was an hour long. Just felt like an eternal where are my allies game. I even got down 2 out of 3 shield generators, one of the turrets, and got the enemy core to half health using a push mostly that was me and good drops. Assaults with swords were the key to that.
I just felt most of the games recently have been me carrying a team heavily and then losing. No matter what I do I can't make up for some teammates. Like the 1 hour game, I killed all the objectives and had 440 units killed verse my allies that were 220 and 300.
I had a game where I had 200 enemy units killed and one of my allies had 33.
33
How is that possible?
having played company of heroes 2 for ages i cant tell you that is going to be the case for alot team games.
usually your kd ratio needs to be insane because if you are at least somewhat decent at the game. your teamates likely aren't.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
The ESL tourney last night was fairly fun. Including but not limited to: VindicareX pulling an IdrA, and having a meltdown in chat before telling bikerush he's awful for playing Eldar (apologise for using those units!) and ragequitting the tourney, as well as Cataclaw forfeiting to jbj to see what happens in a top-tier Eldar vs Orks match.
Eldar still basically broken, and bikerush has confirmed that the Falcon deflection bubble doctrine was as OP as I suspected (there are a few other doctrines that might be stealth OP once the early game gets smoothed out). Even after the patch of its bug, the Webway t1 Doctrine is absurd, and I hope it just gets gutted totally. jbj had Waaagh'd boys just Benny Hilling after Dire Avengers with no hope. Same for insta-teleport on Bonesingers; it shouldn't be up at the start of the match, and it shouldn't be instant. Eldar map control is just nutty. I think once those two issues get addressed, then we can see whether Eldar need tweaks elsewhere (certainly things like Shadow Spectres could use a review).
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Guys, guys, guys.
I found actual footage of DoW II when it launched. You've no idea how hard it is to find stuff from before CR. But I did, and it's every bit as amazing as I remember:
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I enjoyed it a lot, but it definitely was a wild ride when it came to balance in 1v1. 3 is a lot better balanced than either of the others were, although it does seem like the relative strength of the elite units (and very quick time to kill of certain abilities) has put people off. I've been playing a bit of DoW 1 and 2 for comparison and nostalgia, and there's a big difference in design philosophy for the elites. The old elites started off reasonably tough and they could definitely beat basic units over 20 or so seconds, but even things like the Lictor Alpha couldn't destroy a unit as quickly as something like the Weirdboy, Striking Scorpions, Kyre, or Stormboyz with their suicide bomb.
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
+1
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
As far as single player goes, I badly miss hero customization and skill selection. Gear was kind of hit or miss with me in DoW2 and its sequels, but I still loved the single player, especially co-op single player. Co-op single player was a blast in DoW2, and so was Last Stand.
Are you the magic man?
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
also goddamn, I really want Last Stand or something like it but it doesn't seem the game is built in any way to accomodate it. I'm sure we'll get news of DLC later on from our conspicuously absent now that the game is out resident Relic advertiser, hope there's more story and game mode focus like Ardennes Assault was rather than boatloads of elite skins and orders and stuff like that like in CoH2.
Are you the magic man?
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
This is a really good replay between bikerushownz (several times winner of the ESL tourneys), playing on SM rather than his main, Eldar, and Galahad94, who is also a high level player, who previously mained SM but now experimenting on Orks. It's a solid 35 minutes, which is a long time in 1v1, and has several awesome huge fights.
I might see if I can do a cast of it later, there's a lot of cool things going on in this match.
So I'm hearing the Eldar are OP but I still have some difficultly playing them. Any strat tips?
Use the early webway doctrine, move your webway with your forces (but keep it hidden/defended).
Cap points aggressively, use your bonesinger(s) to cap undefended points as they can warp quickly.
lots of micro. Dire Avengers should be moving if they're on firing cooldown(or throwing a grenade). Getting the Q ability for Howling Banshees lets them decimate all Normal Infantry Squads.
So I'm hearing the Eldar are OP but I still have some difficultly playing them. Any strat tips?
OP might not be the right words but probably are the strongest out there.
I suck with them but this is what I notice watching inControl who mains them and is much better than me:
-Dire Avenger spam pretty early is important and you need to keep them alive. Lots of dancing and good grenade use
-Get the (I think it is wraitlord?) doctrine that lets you move around your webway gateways at tier 1 and faster, having those wins and loses battles
-Striking Scorpions kill generators super fast due to being true damage
-Mass a lot of wraithguard later, they do huge damage and aren't that slow with webways near by for fleet of foot
Their elites are mostly good. Striking Scorpions are like assault marines with swords but better. Macha is really good damage and control. Jain Zar destroys tier 1 infantry but is squishy. Wraithknight and Farseerer Taldar are amazing end game units. Falcons are probably kind of nuts right now.
Thing with eldar is they are still squishy. You can't win toe to toe in melee with a lot of things. And they can die super fast. But they have regening health with webways which is one way they are super powerful.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Eldar 1v1 build
Elites:
Striking Scorpions with Vyper's Sting
Farseer Macha with Last Chance
Wraithlord with Improved Webways
Doctrines:
Shields for Dire Avengers
Improved Plasma Grenades for Dire Avengers
Deflective Shield for Falcon
You start out with 3-4 Bonesingers and 3 squads of Dire Avengers early. Bonesingers should be warped to capture points early, and then either put into stealth patches as scouts, or held for use in combat as detectors or to tie up ranged units in melee with warp. You want to invest in 2 req and 2 power, preferably on safe nodes. As far as building LPs goes, you probably want 1-2. Taking an enemy's triple resource point and putting an LP on it early can be very effective. You want to build a single Webway Gate very early rather than a Warrior Portal, and you need to keep this Gate close to the battle for the first 5-10 minutes.
In battles, you're engaging when nades and shields are up, and using FoF from the Gate to keep distance when they're down. Make sure to use grenades in a staggered fashion because their knockback means they shouldn't all be spammed at once. Against Ork Boys in particular, hold the grenades until they're practically in melee, then grenade at your feet. Bonesingers have instant teleport which can be used to tie up enemy Dire Avengers, Tac Marines, Scouts, and Shootas; they also function as detectors. Once Striking Scorpions are out, you should be able to make a push for a Shield Generator for the resource bonus they reward when killed. When you win engagements, look to do economic damage by breaking enemy power generators primarily, and req generators secondarily; try and make sure to keep your own power generators alive because it's important to be able to tech up quickly. Whenever you break the builds on an enemy resource point, move your Avengers away and use a Bonesinger to capture instead.
Going into 7+ minutes, if you're struggling you can build 1-2 more squads of Dire Avengers. If you really think you need them, you can build a Warrior Portal and Banshees, but it's not usually necessary. At this point, you're looking to tech into t2, and then decide where to go from there. If you're ahead, you want to build a Sky Portal and get your Falcon out first, then add 1-2 Vypers. The Falcon will chew through all infantry, and you can use the deflective shield to prevent damage from Tankbustas/Missile Launchers/True Damage infantry while annihilating them. Vypers help mop up by killing off Trukks and any other light enemy armour. It's also worth building a Soul Shrine and quickly grabbing vehicle upgrades concurrently. At this point, you can more or less build 3-4 Falcons total and end the game (don't forget to tank turret laser using a Bonesinger teleported in before your army attacks).
If you're behind, you can still either go with the Sky Portal, but take Vypers first against e.g. Trukk spam. Or you can go for an Infinity Portal, and go for Wraithguard, provided you still have Avengers left over for dealing with enemy infantry (the Falcon strat literally wipes the floor with infantry so even if you lose all your Avengers towards the end of the build, you can come back hard). Wraithguard are slow-moving so you'll need to use the Webway teleporting a lot to keep them moving quickly, but they're very effective against Trukks and badly micro'd Falcons and Landspeeders, which are the units you'll likely face if you're behind. Wraithguard are also a good choice to close out games even if you did go for the Falcon build, but you're having trouble finishing.
--
Oh, and I finished the cast for the game I linked above, if anyone's interested:
yea as ork player i noticed eldar tend to be super squish.
my battle plan is to get the boys stuck in so they cant shoot the crap out of me or run away.
so upcoming factions
I guess we will see necrons and chaos right? Im a little surprised we won't have an order/good faction faction like imperial guard or tau tbh. Im dreading the necrons maybe its just because of how op they were in DOW1
Posts
It can work fairly well if they have good map control and unit preservation. I feel like that's going to go away once the meta develops.
It's helpful to bring Wraithlord as the third Elite, and to use the west or east spawns, rather than the north one (i.e. go to one of them second).
Us the East or West to be your defense base. Put shooters like folks said in the pits. I think I went with Jain Zar for my extra elite. She just shreds Eldar but takes some micro.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/dawnofwar/announcements/detail/1305326168716260575
Surrendering is in, most of the rest is bug fixes, and some people are reporting performance increases.
Unfortunately, they've broken the monitor selection for some users (me included), so it can't open on the primary monitor, for some reason. Also seems to be stuck in some sort of pseudo windowed mode for the other two friends I'm playing with.
https://www.dawnofwar.com/article/tips-from-the-team-vol-1
Yep, it's in single player too, which means waiting to get the resources for that last high tier squad you want takes just a wee bi----FOREVER longer.
That seems.....counter intuitive.
I'm also not 100% sold on getting bonuses for killing more than one objective of a type (killing second/third Gen rewards just as much as the first).
I just felt most of the games recently have been me carrying a team heavily and then losing. No matter what I do I can't make up for some teammates. Like the 1 hour game, I killed all the objectives and had 440 units killed verse my allies that were 220 and 300.
I had a game where I had 200 enemy units killed and one of my allies had 33.
33
How is that possible?
As a slight aside, the Kill count is pretty silly. Orks inflate kills and deaths a lot, while SMs are much lower on both.
This is true but it evens out over long games. Or it should, this isn't 1v1. I have watched a lot of bads at this point and I am starting to figure when I have to fight on all three fronts because we are basically down one.
Also kill counts in a lot of 3v3 even out because everyone moves down the middle at each other a lot. This was more just me being annoyed. It is really frustrating to take out a lot of the opponents but your allies not doing any follow up or trying to do follow up.
having played company of heroes 2 for ages i cant tell you that is going to be the case for alot team games.
usually your kd ratio needs to be insane because if you are at least somewhat decent at the game. your teamates likely aren't.
Eldar still basically broken, and bikerush has confirmed that the Falcon deflection bubble doctrine was as OP as I suspected (there are a few other doctrines that might be stealth OP once the early game gets smoothed out). Even after the patch of its bug, the Webway t1 Doctrine is absurd, and I hope it just gets gutted totally. jbj had Waaagh'd boys just Benny Hilling after Dire Avengers with no hope. Same for insta-teleport on Bonesingers; it shouldn't be up at the start of the match, and it shouldn't be instant. Eldar map control is just nutty. I think once those two issues get addressed, then we can see whether Eldar need tweaks elsewhere (certainly things like Shadow Spectres could use a review).
I found actual footage of DoW II when it launched. You've no idea how hard it is to find stuff from before CR. But I did, and it's every bit as amazing as I remember:
This is a really good replay between bikerushownz (several times winner of the ESL tourneys), playing on SM rather than his main, Eldar, and Galahad94, who is also a high level player, who previously mained SM but now experimenting on Orks. It's a solid 35 minutes, which is a long time in 1v1, and has several awesome huge fights.
I might see if I can do a cast of it later, there's a lot of cool things going on in this match.
Use the early webway doctrine, move your webway with your forces (but keep it hidden/defended).
Cap points aggressively, use your bonesinger(s) to cap undefended points as they can warp quickly.
lots of micro. Dire Avengers should be moving if they're on firing cooldown(or throwing a grenade). Getting the Q ability for Howling Banshees lets them decimate all Normal Infantry Squads.
OP might not be the right words but probably are the strongest out there.
I suck with them but this is what I notice watching inControl who mains them and is much better than me:
-Dire Avenger spam pretty early is important and you need to keep them alive. Lots of dancing and good grenade use
-Get the (I think it is wraitlord?) doctrine that lets you move around your webway gateways at tier 1 and faster, having those wins and loses battles
-Striking Scorpions kill generators super fast due to being true damage
-Mass a lot of wraithguard later, they do huge damage and aren't that slow with webways near by for fleet of foot
Their elites are mostly good. Striking Scorpions are like assault marines with swords but better. Macha is really good damage and control. Jain Zar destroys tier 1 infantry but is squishy. Wraithknight and Farseerer Taldar are amazing end game units. Falcons are probably kind of nuts right now.
Thing with eldar is they are still squishy. You can't win toe to toe in melee with a lot of things. And they can die super fast. But they have regening health with webways which is one way they are super powerful.
Elites:
Striking Scorpions with Vyper's Sting
Farseer Macha with Last Chance
Wraithlord with Improved Webways
Doctrines:
Shields for Dire Avengers
Improved Plasma Grenades for Dire Avengers
Deflective Shield for Falcon
You start out with 3-4 Bonesingers and 3 squads of Dire Avengers early. Bonesingers should be warped to capture points early, and then either put into stealth patches as scouts, or held for use in combat as detectors or to tie up ranged units in melee with warp. You want to invest in 2 req and 2 power, preferably on safe nodes. As far as building LPs goes, you probably want 1-2. Taking an enemy's triple resource point and putting an LP on it early can be very effective. You want to build a single Webway Gate very early rather than a Warrior Portal, and you need to keep this Gate close to the battle for the first 5-10 minutes.
In battles, you're engaging when nades and shields are up, and using FoF from the Gate to keep distance when they're down. Make sure to use grenades in a staggered fashion because their knockback means they shouldn't all be spammed at once. Against Ork Boys in particular, hold the grenades until they're practically in melee, then grenade at your feet. Bonesingers have instant teleport which can be used to tie up enemy Dire Avengers, Tac Marines, Scouts, and Shootas; they also function as detectors. Once Striking Scorpions are out, you should be able to make a push for a Shield Generator for the resource bonus they reward when killed. When you win engagements, look to do economic damage by breaking enemy power generators primarily, and req generators secondarily; try and make sure to keep your own power generators alive because it's important to be able to tech up quickly. Whenever you break the builds on an enemy resource point, move your Avengers away and use a Bonesinger to capture instead.
Going into 7+ minutes, if you're struggling you can build 1-2 more squads of Dire Avengers. If you really think you need them, you can build a Warrior Portal and Banshees, but it's not usually necessary. At this point, you're looking to tech into t2, and then decide where to go from there. If you're ahead, you want to build a Sky Portal and get your Falcon out first, then add 1-2 Vypers. The Falcon will chew through all infantry, and you can use the deflective shield to prevent damage from Tankbustas/Missile Launchers/True Damage infantry while annihilating them. Vypers help mop up by killing off Trukks and any other light enemy armour. It's also worth building a Soul Shrine and quickly grabbing vehicle upgrades concurrently. At this point, you can more or less build 3-4 Falcons total and end the game (don't forget to tank turret laser using a Bonesinger teleported in before your army attacks).
If you're behind, you can still either go with the Sky Portal, but take Vypers first against e.g. Trukk spam. Or you can go for an Infinity Portal, and go for Wraithguard, provided you still have Avengers left over for dealing with enemy infantry (the Falcon strat literally wipes the floor with infantry so even if you lose all your Avengers towards the end of the build, you can come back hard). Wraithguard are slow-moving so you'll need to use the Webway teleporting a lot to keep them moving quickly, but they're very effective against Trukks and badly micro'd Falcons and Landspeeders, which are the units you'll likely face if you're behind. Wraithguard are also a good choice to close out games even if you did go for the Falcon build, but you're having trouble finishing.
--
Oh, and I finished the cast for the game I linked above, if anyone's interested:
my battle plan is to get the boys stuck in so they cant shoot the crap out of me or run away.
so upcoming factions