this development reads to me similarly to how Secret Warriors' first issue ended
and that turned out to be one of the best series Marvel has put out in the last decade
Nick Spencer is a smart dude and a great writer. i'm sure he has a plan for all of this, and judging the entire story based on the very first issue seems like jumping the gun a bit
No one's jumping any guns. I think the responses here have been pretty measured. No one's throwing a fit or raging out or anything. A lot of "we'll have to see how this turns out." We're just not optimistic because the premise isn't something we're interested in.
i don't know that i'd say they've been measured, with some folks swearing off the book entirely and others saying that Marvel fucked up, especially since all we have is a single panel scan and then some hearsay about his past
like, i totally get not being into this development, but it's a tiny, tiny part of the book and the story is clearly going to have much more to it in the long run. if you still don't wanna read it, that's fine, but claiming the story is bad off of this single panel is definitely jumping the gun a bit, at least until we get a better sense of what Spencer is trying to do
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Based on the "This is such a crazy reveal" and alluding to it redefining the entire character
And then seeing that panel
I'm out, and it would take a miraculous feat of storytelling to get me to give a shit in even the slightest
I have strong Captain America opinions
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
well their ruse worked on me
because it can't possibly be as dumb as it seems, so now I want to know what the real deal is
this development reads to me similarly to how Secret Warriors' first issue ended
and that turned out to be one of the best series Marvel has put out in the last decade
Nick Spencer is a smart dude and a great writer. i'm sure he has a plan for all of this, and judging the entire story based on the very first issue seems like jumping the gun a bit
No one's jumping any guns. I think the responses here have been pretty measured. No one's throwing a fit or raging out or anything. A lot of "we'll have to see how this turns out." We're just not optimistic because the premise isn't something we're interested in.
i don't know that i'd say they've been measured, with some folks swearing off the book entirely and others saying that Marvel fucked up, especially since all we have is a single panel scan and then some hearsay about his past
like, i totally get not being into this development, but it's a tiny, tiny part of the book and the story is clearly going to have much more to it in the long run. if you still don't wanna read it, that's fine, but claiming the story is bad off of this single panel is definitely jumping the gun a bit, at least until we get a better sense of what Spencer is trying to do
You're sure overlooking a lot of "ifs" in those posts to come to that conclusion.
And it's not like anyone owes anyone benefit of the doubt. It's completely valid and not at all unreasonable to say "I don't like the sound of that".
this development reads to me similarly to how Secret Warriors' first issue ended
and that turned out to be one of the best series Marvel has put out in the last decade
Nick Spencer is a smart dude and a great writer. i'm sure he has a plan for all of this, and judging the entire story based on the very first issue seems like jumping the gun a bit
No one's jumping any guns. I think the responses here have been pretty measured. No one's throwing a fit or raging out or anything. A lot of "we'll have to see how this turns out." We're just not optimistic because the premise isn't something we're interested in.
i don't know that i'd say they've been measured, with some folks swearing off the book entirely and others saying that Marvel fucked up, especially since all we have is a single panel scan and then some hearsay about his past
like, i totally get not being into this development, but it's a tiny, tiny part of the book and the story is clearly going to have much more to it in the long run. if you still don't wanna read it, that's fine, but claiming the story is bad off of this single panel is definitely jumping the gun a bit, at least until we get a better sense of what Spencer is trying to do
You're sure overlooking a lot of "ifs" in those posts to come to that conclusion.
And it's not like anyone owes anyone benefit of the doubt. It's completely valid and not at all unreasonable to say "I don't like the sound of that".
i never said or even implied that anyone "owes" anyone anything. like i said, you don't wanna read it, no problem, don't
the main thing i'm getting at is i doubt Spencer or Marvel are that surface-level stupid and that there's likely far more going on than implied by a single panel leak
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
this development reads to me similarly to how Secret Warriors' first issue ended
and that turned out to be one of the best series Marvel has put out in the last decade
Nick Spencer is a smart dude and a great writer. i'm sure he has a plan for all of this, and judging the entire story based on the very first issue seems like jumping the gun a bit
No one's jumping any guns. I think the responses here have been pretty measured. No one's throwing a fit or raging out or anything. A lot of "we'll have to see how this turns out." We're just not optimistic because the premise isn't something we're interested in.
i don't know that i'd say they've been measured, with some folks swearing off the book entirely and others saying that Marvel fucked up, especially since all we have is a single panel scan and then some hearsay about his past
like, i totally get not being into this development, but it's a tiny, tiny part of the book and the story is clearly going to have much more to it in the long run. if you still don't wanna read it, that's fine, but claiming the story is bad off of this single panel is definitely jumping the gun a bit, at least until we get a better sense of what Spencer is trying to do
You're sure overlooking a lot of "ifs" in those posts to come to that conclusion.
And it's not like anyone owes anyone benefit of the doubt. It's completely valid and not at all unreasonable to say "I don't like the sound of that".
i never said or even implied that anyone "owes" anyone anything. like i said, you don't wanna read it, no problem, don't
the main thing i'm getting at is i doubt Spencer or Marvel are that surface-level stupid and that there's likely far more going on than implied by a single panel leak
We've all said that same thing and our reactions have been factoring that in.
Yeah, I love Marvel but they aren't perfect, even during this modern Renaissance they have been having
And Spencer isn't either
He had Steve Rogers resort to torture during his pretty godawful Secret Avengers run
Like, I still think he's a good writer and his modern work has been absolutely fantastic but it wouldn't be the first time he has misspelled with the character
Yeah, I love Marvel but they aren't perfect, even during this modern Renaissance they have been having
And Spencer isn't either
He had Steve Rogers resort to torture during his pretty godawful Secret Avengers run
Like, I still think he's a good writer and his modern work has been absolutely fantastic but it wouldn't be the first time he has misspelled with the character
Yeah, I love Marvel but they aren't perfect, even during this modern Renaissance they have been having
And Spencer isn't either
He had Steve Rogers resort to torture during his pretty godawful Secret Avengers run
Like, I still think he's a good writer and his modern work has been absolutely fantastic but it wouldn't be the first time he has misspelled with the character
that was during Ellis's run
You're right!
But he did have Steve be okay with some pretty shady gross deals and then cut a speech about how his new gig as SHIELD commander means he couldn't be the moral paragon he used to be and now has to just try his best which also doesn't sit right with me at all
Like trying his best sure
But Steve Rogers would make SHIELD better, not just try to make the best of its shady dealings
That's a pretty crazy plan if he's a voluntary sleeper agent. I'll fight the organization for decades and ruin their plans time and time again until I become a symbol of hope for heroes everywhere.
Then I'll keep on being a hero until let's say 2016 or so. THEN, they'll never see us coming.
Also
Red Skull is still running around with mind control powers right?
That's a pretty crazy plan if he's a voluntary sleeper agent. I'll fight the organization for decades and ruin their plans time and time again until I become a symbol of hope for heroes everywhere.
Then I'll keep on being a hero until let's say 2016 or so. THEN, they'll never see us coming.
Also
Red Skull is still running around with mind control powers right?
Regarding the second point
He does but he isn't using them in the Spencer Cap run. He wants to use his natural charisma to control people.
The only thing I think is even remotely possible and how it could be huge or whatever, and keep in mind I have not read any comics in forever, just summaries
When little cosmic cube girl made Steve young again, what she really did was swap him with an alternate reality Steve. She stole a different Steve.
Which would be a big deal I guess because they just got rid of alternate realities.
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The only thing I think is even remotely possible and how it could be huge or whatever, and keep in mind I have not read any comics in forever, just summaries
When little cosmic cube girl made Steve young again, what she really did was swap him with an alternate reality Steve. She stole a different Steve.
Which would be a big deal I guess because they just got rid of alternate realities.
They didn't get rid of alternate realities completely, Reed and Reece are still creating them.
The only thing I think is even remotely possible and how it could be huge or whatever, and keep in mind I have not read any comics in forever, just summaries
When little cosmic cube girl made Steve young again, what she really did was swap him with an alternate reality Steve. She stole a different Steve.
Which would be a big deal I guess because they just got rid of alternate realities.
They didn't get rid of alternate realities completely, Reed and Reece are still creating them.
Judging by Web-Warriors there are probably as many alternate universes as there ever were.
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
hero/villain turns villain/hero is basically the one silly comics thing that's guaranteed to pique my interest, and what I've learned is that it practically doesn't matter how silly the transition is
so I guess what I'm saying is, okay, I'm interested (also, is that one half-panel the only bit we have to go on? Seems like a pretty flimsy support for all these assumptions.)
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
hero/villain turns villain/hero is basically the one silly comics thing that's guaranteed to pique my interest, and what I've learned is that it practically doesn't matter how silly the transition is
so I guess what I'm saying is, okay, I'm interested (also, is that one half-panel the only bit we have to go on? Seems like a pretty flimsy support for all these assumptions.)
Someone (Bleeding Cool?) claims to have the inside scoop. That half-panel is just the "confirmation".
Parts of it were but the man could not write Steve Rogers to save his life
Steve having Beast create a makeshift bomb to kill hundreds (to save thousands) and go OH I DON'T TORTURE, BUT BLACK WIDOW SURE DOES AND IM GONNA WALK OUT OF THE ROOM are fucking terrible
Movie Steve basically does the same thing in Winter Soldier.
"You're not going to throw me off this building"
"You're right, but she will."
Cue psychological torture.
I think there's a bit of a difference between throwing a dude off the building knowing that Falcon is there waiting to catch him and he was never in any real danger versus straight up saying "I don't believe in torture. I think it's ugly and dishonorable. So I'm going to let my colleagues do it." and then actually just turning his back and letting Moon Knight stab a guy through the hand and Widow shoot another guy in the thigh and then pull out a knife and start slicing his face threatening to cut it off.
Like, yeah, in the real world the first one is definitely psychological torture but in superhero fiction the same sort of shit has been done by everyone from Spider-Man to even Superman and the important part is that there was never any real danger to Sitwell.
So, reportedly, the full context for that Cap spoiler is
He and Jack Flag (making his first appearance that I can recall since GotG) are teaming up to save Eric Selvig from Zemo and when they get Zemo taken care of and it is just the three of them on Zemo's aircraft, Steve shoves Jack out of the plane and says "Hail Hydra" to Selvig.
So, reportedly, the full context for that Cap spoiler is
He and Jack Flag (making his first appearance that I can recall since GotG) are teaming up to save Eric Selvig from Zemo and when they get Zemo taken care of and it is just the three of them on Zemo's aircraft, Steve shoves Jack out of the plane and says "Hail Hydra" to Selvig.
Caught up on last week's purchases; you guys weren't kidding about Ultimates...read 1 through 3...this is a fantastic book. Definitely picking up the rest next time and adding it to my list.
Black Panther seems great so far.
Gwenpool continues to be a delight; very funny but also surprisingly touching at times.
So, reportedly, the full context for that Cap spoiler is
He and Jack Flag (making his first appearance that I can recall since GotG) are teaming up to save Eric Selvig from Zemo and when they get Zemo taken care of and it is just the three of them on Zemo's aircraft, Steve shoves Jack out of the plane and says "Hail Hydra" to Selvig.
So, reportedly, the full context for that Cap spoiler is
He and Jack Flag (making his first appearance that I can recall since GotG) are teaming up to save Eric Selvig from Zemo and when they get Zemo taken care of and it is just the three of them on Zemo's aircraft, Steve shoves Jack out of the plane and says "Hail Hydra" to Selvig.
now see, killing off Jack Flag for no reason
that is something to get upset about
maybe he won't die from being pushed out of a plane. Maybe he'll just be paralyzed.
y'know, now that i'm thinking about it, the only reason anyone is really making a big deal about this being a huge, world shaking revelation is because bleeding fucking cool said so. they claimed Marvel would make an announcement about how earth-shattering it is and that shit never happened. Marvel never sold it as a huge event, never made a big deal about it other than it just being the return of Steve Rogers
and looking at some of the scans, it really, really seems like a bait and switch or clone type situation rather than anything really long lasting
basically i think we've all been had by rich johnston
y'know, now that i'm thinking about it, the only reason anyone is really making a big deal about this being a huge, world shaking revelation is because bleeding fucking cool said so. they claimed Marvel would make an announcement about how earth-shattering it is and that shit never happened. Marvel never sold it as a huge event, never made a big deal about it other than it just being the return of Steve Rogers
and looking at some of the scans, it really, really seems like a bait and switch or clone type situation rather than anything really long lasting
basically i think we've all been had by rich johnston
I doubt it is a clone type thing
Other wise the scenes with Kid Steve and his mom going to a Hydra Rally would be pointless
It could totally be a fakeout
But there have also been other Marvel writers calling it a big deal and Spencer is removing himself from Twitter over it, it isn't just Johnston
I think it'd help a little if we knew who was narrating. If that's Steve, it could easily be seen as "I have to 'kill' Jack just to get close enough to stop this Hydra civil war and I can't even warn him about it or why I'm doing it or just how long he has to stay 'dead' and after everything he's gone through, he deserves better".
Posts
i don't know that i'd say they've been measured, with some folks swearing off the book entirely and others saying that Marvel fucked up, especially since all we have is a single panel scan and then some hearsay about his past
like, i totally get not being into this development, but it's a tiny, tiny part of the book and the story is clearly going to have much more to it in the long run. if you still don't wanna read it, that's fine, but claiming the story is bad off of this single panel is definitely jumping the gun a bit, at least until we get a better sense of what Spencer is trying to do
And then seeing that panel
I'm out, and it would take a miraculous feat of storytelling to get me to give a shit in even the slightest
I have strong Captain America opinions
because it can't possibly be as dumb as it seems, so now I want to know what the real deal is
You're sure overlooking a lot of "ifs" in those posts to come to that conclusion.
And it's not like anyone owes anyone benefit of the doubt. It's completely valid and not at all unreasonable to say "I don't like the sound of that".
i never said or even implied that anyone "owes" anyone anything. like i said, you don't wanna read it, no problem, don't
the main thing i'm getting at is i doubt Spencer or Marvel are that surface-level stupid and that there's likely far more going on than implied by a single panel leak
I would go under on that.
I would put the over/under at 3.5 years if I was running Vegas odds.
They ain't above terrible stupid decisions
We've all said that same thing and our reactions have been factoring that in.
And Spencer isn't either
He had Steve Rogers resort to torture during his pretty godawful Secret Avengers run
Like, I still think he's a good writer and his modern work has been absolutely fantastic but it wouldn't be the first time he has misspelled with the character
that was during Ellis's run
But he did have Steve be okay with some pretty shady gross deals and then cut a speech about how his new gig as SHIELD commander means he couldn't be the moral paragon he used to be and now has to just try his best which also doesn't sit right with me at all
Like trying his best sure
But Steve Rogers would make SHIELD better, not just try to make the best of its shady dealings
he's secretly telling us to keep laughing, even when the circumstances are grim
and Steve is Hydra Double Agent is an anagram of A Dab Ed Seethes Loving Yurt!
I'm not sure what that means, but it must mean something!
Then I'll keep on being a hero until let's say 2016 or so. THEN, they'll never see us coming.
Regarding the second point
He's still using them in Uncanny Avengers though.
Which would be a big deal I guess because they just got rid of alternate realities.
They didn't get rid of alternate realities completely, Reed and Reece are still creating them.
Judging by Web-Warriors there are probably as many alternate universes as there ever were.
Warren Ellis' Secret Avengers was good
Steam
But man
How
so I guess what I'm saying is, okay, I'm interested (also, is that one half-panel the only bit we have to go on? Seems like a pretty flimsy support for all these assumptions.)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Someone (Bleeding Cool?) claims to have the inside scoop. That half-panel is just the "confirmation".
Steve having Beast create a makeshift bomb to kill hundreds (to save thousands) and go OH I DON'T TORTURE, BUT BLACK WIDOW SURE DOES AND IM GONNA WALK OUT OF THE ROOM are fucking terrible
Movie Steve basically does the same thing in Winter Soldier.
"You're not going to throw me off this building"
"You're right, but she will."
Cue psychological torture.
Like, yeah, in the real world the first one is definitely psychological torture but in superhero fiction the same sort of shit has been done by everyone from Spider-Man to even Superman and the important part is that there was never any real danger to Sitwell.
:?
Black Panther seems great so far.
Gwenpool continues to be a delight; very funny but also surprisingly touching at times.
Please
No
that is something to get upset about
Again.
Man, Jack Flag cannot catch a break.
Boo to that
Man
Not only do they do a SHOCKING REVEAL I hate
There's no other way that it ain't shitty as hell.
and looking at some of the scans, it really, really seems like a bait and switch or clone type situation rather than anything really long lasting
basically i think we've all been had by rich johnston
If there's one thing Cap wouldn't be
It could totally be a fakeout
But there have also been other Marvel writers calling it a big deal and Spencer is removing himself from Twitter over it, it isn't just Johnston
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)