Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
How, how do people think Trump would have a better foreign policy record than Hillary?
There's an image that gets passed around where it has all the quotes of every single other candidate (rep and dem) speaking about how they'd enforce the no fly zones for russia, etc.
Then it has the Putin/Trump quotes about how Putin thinks Trump is a great leader and how Trump thinks the russia leader is just misunderstood or whatever
0
Options
PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
It really speaks to how much Republicans are authoritarian bootlickers that they lionize a guy like Putin.
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
She seems super concerned with getting credit for it, for or against it notwithstanding.
Insofar as the Balkans conflict: you have no idea how much that intervention was a complete charlie foxtrot. It did so much more to harm our global standing than it did to resolve the problems there. (I should note, however, that getting stationed in the Balkans was great. Dozens of single women excited to date American GIs after a group effort killed nearly every fighting age local male.)
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2016
The use of military force is an essential part of foreign policy. Always has been, always will be. Not wanting it to be is naive. I am perfectly okay voting for someone who knows how to use it and when it should be used. The Republicans on the other hand are far too willing to use it too often and unnecessarily. Saving lives is one thing. Preventing humanitarian disasters is one thing. Pursuing regime change is another thing.
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
She seems super concerned with getting credit for it, for or against it notwithstanding.
An Israeli newspaper keeps her out of an iconic image because she's a woman, and the only explanation you give for her complaint is that she's trying to grab glory for the attack? That seems very uncharitable.
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
She seems super concerned with getting credit for it, for or against it notwithstanding.
An Israeli newspaper keeps her out of an iconic image because she's a woman, and the only explanation you give for her complaint is that she's trying to grab glory for the attack? That seems very uncharitable.
I thought she was running for President. Does she need my charity now too?
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
She seems super concerned with getting credit for it, for or against it notwithstanding.
An Israeli newspaper keeps her out of an iconic image because she's a woman, and the only explanation you give for her complaint is that she's trying to grab glory for the attack? That seems very uncharitable.
I thought she was running for President. Does she need my charity now too?
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
Why would the secretary of state have any say over a military affair?
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
She seems super concerned with getting credit for it, for or against it notwithstanding.
An Israeli newspaper keeps her out of an iconic image because she's a woman, and the only explanation you give for her complaint is that she's trying to grab glory for the attack? That seems very uncharitable.
I thought she was running for President. Does she need my charity now too?
It's not about charity or her getting credit, it's about how, for all their talk about being the "only democracy" in the Middle East, Israel has been slowly falling under the control of Jewish fundamentalists (and yes, that is an actual thing.) The airbrushing wasn't done to deny her anything, it was done because there's a faction that is growing in power there that is discomfitted by seeing women in positions of power, and are powerful enough to demand that the Israeli media alter the record to conform with their views. And before you say that's just an issue there, the same groups are doing similar things here as well - there was a case a few years back where a Hasidic bus company in NTC tried to put women at the back of the buses they ran for the MTA (a practice that is, sadly, widespread in Israel.) Thankfully, the MTA responded by telling them they could keep their policies or their contract with the city - not both.
man as much as America fucks up a lot Israel is a super destabilizing problem in the middle east and I don't think anyone has any good idea how to solve the conflict between the Israelis and Arabs
+8
Options
lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
And Israel is a super issue inter-generationally for American Jews as well. I won't discuss Israel/Palestine with my father at all.
@lonelyahava there's a Naomi Klein piece on Edward Said in the LRB this month that I think you'd like. Remind me tomorrow if you're interested, and I'll see if I can dig up the online version.
Oh yeah, I'm super uncomfortable with actual drone killings of US citizens. THAT is extrajudicial and unconstitutional.
don't worry: most of the people we drone kill aren't US citizens
eh plz don't put words -> mouth
I apologize, I'm p salty tonight
God damn though, I wonder what kind of cultural phenomena are gonna arise from being born and raised in a part of the world where you might be exploded at any minute by some random joe with an iPad a thousand miles away
art outside the west gonna be weird in a generation
+3
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Also, to be clear, what Hillary was absolutely approving on the Osama operation. She just didn't give a flying fuck about the Correspondents Dinner.
Oh yeah, I'm super uncomfortable with actual drone killings of US citizens. THAT is extrajudicial and unconstitutional.
don't worry: most of the people we drone kill aren't US citizens
eh plz don't put words -> mouth
I apologize, I'm p salty tonight
God damn though, I wonder what kind of cultural phenomena are gonna arise from being born and raised in a part of the world where you might be exploded at any minute by some random joe with an iPad a thousand miles away
art outside the west gonna be weird in a generation
I think there's a word that starts with the letter T and is being fought against in a metaphysical war right now that the iPad joes are in.
man as much as America fucks up a lot Israel is a super destabilizing problem in the middle east and I don't think anyone has any good idea how to solve the conflict between the Israelis and Arabs
the U.S. could stop supporting Israel with military equipment and/or money
fat chance of that happening
Miss me? Find me on:
Twitch (I stream most days of the week) Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
man as much as America fucks up a lot Israel is a super destabilizing problem in the middle east and I don't think anyone has any good idea how to solve the conflict between the Israelis and Arabs
the U.S. could stop supporting Israel with military equipment and/or money
fat chance of that happening
But that also doesnt really solve the problen in any way and may lead to further conflict.
I'm sure there adere whole chapters worth of decision theory on this topic in the state department
The creation of the state of Israel out of the Palestinian Mandate was probably a mistake (which engendered a series of further mistakes by all parties in the region) but disestablishing Israel was never going to solve the problem and would only make it worse now
The main practical problem with cutting off support to Israel is that an IDF incapable of defending the country conventionally - and Israel's size, terrain and location make it very hard to defend - is very likely to resort to nuclear weapons in order to deter hostile Arab powers.
Posts
I thought Hillary was against the Osama attack? My memory is that it was initially vetoed by her office but when it got to Obama's desk he went over the facts and approved it while adding a second helicopter.
There's an image that gets passed around where it has all the quotes of every single other candidate (rep and dem) speaking about how they'd enforce the no fly zones for russia, etc.
Then it has the Putin/Trump quotes about how Putin thinks Trump is a great leader and how Trump thinks the russia leader is just misunderstood or whatever
She seems super concerned with getting credit for it, for or against it notwithstanding.
Insofar as the Balkans conflict: you have no idea how much that intervention was a complete charlie foxtrot. It did so much more to harm our global standing than it did to resolve the problems there. (I should note, however, that getting stationed in the Balkans was great. Dozens of single women excited to date American GIs after a group effort killed nearly every fighting age local male.)
An Israeli newspaper keeps her out of an iconic image because she's a woman, and the only explanation you give for her complaint is that she's trying to grab glory for the attack? That seems very uncharitable.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
I consider it a positive thing.
Well, he was killed without a trial. I'd say that's extra judicial
Christ, what an asshole.
Why would the secretary of state have any say over a military affair?
pleasepaypreacher.net
He's not a US citizen, so it's not really extrajudicial because he's an enemy combatant.
Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, on the other hand...
Citizenship doesn't have anything to do with whether a person is an enemy combatant, it's a matter of active participation in hostilities.
The Democrats are going to steal America
don't worry: most of the people we drone kill aren't US citizens
The Democrats moved from slavery to enslavement.
...so they didn't move anywhere?
It's not about charity or her getting credit, it's about how, for all their talk about being the "only democracy" in the Middle East, Israel has been slowly falling under the control of Jewish fundamentalists (and yes, that is an actual thing.) The airbrushing wasn't done to deny her anything, it was done because there's a faction that is growing in power there that is discomfitted by seeing women in positions of power, and are powerful enough to demand that the Israeli media alter the record to conform with their views. And before you say that's just an issue there, the same groups are doing similar things here as well - there was a case a few years back where a Hasidic bus company in NTC tried to put women at the back of the buses they ran for the MTA (a practice that is, sadly, widespread in Israel.) Thankfully, the MTA responded by telling them they could keep their policies or their contract with the city - not both.
eh plz don't put words -> mouth
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
I apologize, I'm p salty tonight
God damn though, I wonder what kind of cultural phenomena are gonna arise from being born and raised in a part of the world where you might be exploded at any minute by some random joe with an iPad a thousand miles away
art outside the west gonna be weird in a generation
I think there's a word that starts with the letter T and is being fought against in a metaphysical war right now that the iPad joes are in.
the U.S. could stop supporting Israel with military equipment and/or money
fat chance of that happening
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
But that also doesnt really solve the problen in any way and may lead to further conflict.
I'm sure there adere whole chapters worth of decision theory on this topic in the state department
I feel like I could spend literal years reading up history and culture and still be throwing my hands up in the air
because, hoo boy, supporting them now isn't stopping Israel from straight-up murder
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Imagine you have a culture and people and a connection to the land that goes back thousands of years
And then one day someone comes along and says "this is ours now" and makes you live in a small fraction of what used to be your land
And they treat you like a second class citizen, robbing and killing with impunity
And any attempt to fight back is met with even harsher reprisals
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The main practical problem with cutting off support to Israel is that an IDF incapable of defending the country conventionally - and Israel's size, terrain and location make it very hard to defend - is very likely to resort to nuclear weapons in order to deter hostile Arab powers.
yeah pooro's native american
are you describing Palestinians or Jews here?
because I can't tell if you did that intentionally, but you basically described how both sides percieve their own history