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[Heroes of the Storm] MACHINES OF WAR HYPE! GET IN HERE!

milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky MuckBig Tits TownRegistered User regular
edited August 2016 in Games and Technology

Official Definition:
Heroes of the Storm™ is a raucous online team brawler starring your favorite Blizzard characters. Build and customize heroes from across every Blizzard universe to suit your play style. Team up with your friends and engage in fast-paced mayhem across varied battlegrounds that impact strategy and change the way you play the game.

Alternate Definition:
Heroes is a MOBA-lite Team Brawler game in which you play as many characters from different Blizzard universes in 5v5 objective based team combat. The emphasis is on "objective based." There are currently 7 maps with more to come. Each features a unique map objective that is typically the key to victory. The team that manages to win the objectives is usuallythe team that wins. Heroes shares many gameplay elements in the MOBA genre with popular games like DotA2 and League of Legends, but it also drops a lot of the common trappings of the genre and has simplified down to a core game of action and fun.
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Heroes, in a nutshell, is a game in which two teams are trying to destroy the Core of the opposing team. The Core is similar to the Ancient in DotA or the Nexus in League. Each team has a base with Forts, Towers, Gates, Healing Wells, and Walls to help them defend their core.

At regular intervals waves of NPC Minions spawn in each base and march down pre-defined lanes to attack the enemy. It is the job of the players to help attack down these lanes and destroy the enemy team's base and ultimately their Core. To help with this, each of the maps has a special map objective that gives a big bonus of some sort to the team that completes the objective. Generally each objective will be completed 3-5 times per match before the core is destroyed.

Just like the waves of NPC Minions who spawn and march towards each other in battle, so too do the player characters respawn when they die and continue to fight. The amount of time it takes to respawn is directly related to how long the game has been running. In a new game that is only minutes old, a player will respawn almost immediately. In games over 15 minutes in length the spawn timers will reach a full 60 seconds.

Core: The first team to destroy their opponent's Core wins the map. The Core has a recharging shield which is worth about 15% of the total health of the Core. This shield regenerates very quickly when the Core is out of combat for 8 seconds. The Core also shoots a lightning blast at a target that will also damage enemies near that target. It follows the same targeting rules as Forts and Towers (see below), but is immune to many effect that shut down structures.

Tower: The first line of defense in each base. Towers have limited ammo which regenerates over time. Towers prioritize minions and summoned units and will ignore player characters as long as there is a minion or summoned unit within range. Unlike other MOBAs, the Towers in Heroes will not target a player character if that character attacks an enemy hero while within range.

Forts: Each lane has one Fort, which is located behind a wall and two towers. These Forts have a lot of HP and attack with ammo just like Towers do, but they also slow enemy movement and attack speed which makes them a decent place to defend from. Destroying a Fort yields a considerable XP payout, making them primary targets in the early game.

Keeps: After a Fort, the last line of a lane's defense before the Core are Keeps. These function similarly to Forts, and will also pay out big XP if destroyed. If a keep is destroyed, the opposing lane will start spawning long-range, high-damage catapults alongside the usual minions. Therefore, it's very important protect your keeps while destroying your opponents'.

Healing Wells: If you have played Warcraft 3 then you are probably familiar with the Healing Wells, as they operate similarly to the Moon Wells of the Night Elves. They are on a timer, and restore Health and Mana when you click them. The Health and Mana provided by these Wells is not instant, as the restoration happens over time.

Spawn Point: Each team spawns behind their Core in the safety of their base. There is a magical shield barrier that prevents the enemy team from entering the spawn location, and this shield stops all spells and attacks. Spawn Points also have instant-mounting while you are inside, and you regenerate Health and Mana at a very fast rate while standing in the spawn.
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Minions spawn down the lane like merry lemmings just waiting to die to a tower or hero. They are...

1. Soldiers: Dudes with swords, they lead the minion waves. Tend to have higher-than-average HP and a weak melee attack.
2. Archers: Dudes with, get this, bows. They're in the back of the wave, boasting lower HP but a decent ranged attack.
3. Mages: Wizards that coast in the middle of the pack. They deal ranged damage, but the more important thing is that they drop a green orb on death that will give you and nearby teammates a little bit of HP and mana back. There's only one per minion wave, so try to get that orb!
4. Catapults: Beefy siege units that assault bases with a long-range attack. They only spawn when the enemy's final fort in that lane has fallen, giving you incentive to keep that damn fort alive. They can easily outrange towers/forts/cores, meaning they will slowly whittle down a base unless stopped.

Each map also contains a scattering of Mercenary Camps in the "jungle" area between the lanes. These Merc Camps are neutral NPCs that can be defeated by players and hired to fight for the team that captures them. To capture a Mercenary Camp, the players must defeat them in combat (or bribe them) and then stand within a capture circle for a few seconds to gain control of the camp. It is possible for the enemy team to steal the camps if they push you out of the circle or kill you before you can claim it.

1. Siege Camps: These camps contain two giant siege monsters which hurl large rocks at their enemies. They have long range and can out-range towers and forts, which make them very advantageous for lane pushing. These are the easiest camps to defeat and can be solo'd by most heroes by level 10.
2. Bruiser Camps: Formerly known as the "Knight Camps," these are squads of 4 soldiers (3 melee and 1 spellcaster) who possess a lot of HP and decent damage damage. These camps are more difficult to take and typically require 1-2 people to capture.
3. Boss Camps: These camps generally require 3+ heroes to kill, depending on team levels and what heroes are present. These are high HP / high Damage monsters that can do devastating amounts of damage in a lane. They ignore minions and other mercenaries and will only target enemy structures. They cast a Pound skill that can be avoided by moving out of the telegraphed smash circle. They also cast a targeted root spell on occasion against enemy heroes, telegraphed by a smaller circle.
4. Map-Specific Creeps: From pirates on Blackheart Bay to the plant monsters in the Garden of Terror, these mercs will NOT join your side, but instead drop objective-relevant items that help you win the game like skulls, coins, and so on. Difficulty and rewards vary by map.
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So what else? There is no item shop. No in-game gold. No items to be bought. No shoes or rods of whatever. "Blasphemy!" you might say, but Heroes is feeling pretty heretical. Instead of items, you get talents roughly every 3-4 levels. These are anywhere from 2-5 choices that change how your character functions. It might be "killing minions gives you more damage" or "your auto-attacks now slow enemies." At level 10 you unlock your Heroic Ability (aka your ult), and even that has choices! Every character has two heroic abilities, so pick the one most suited for the current game.

If you have played other MOBAs and are accustomed to buying boots, this game doesn't have them. Instead it has Mounts (default Z key). Attacking or taking damage dismounts you, and re-mounting does have a brief cooldown. Not all characters can mount up, but instead have mobility skills that in most cases let them get to an area REALLY FAST but has a much longer cooldown.
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As you play games in Heroes, you will level up two different things: your Player Level and a Hero Level. Experience you earn from playing game is applied to both kinds of levels. There are also three kinds of XP boosts one can get: playing with people on your friends list, Holiday bonuses that occur throughout the year, and Stimpacks which are boosts you buy from the shop. Also, there's a cap on experience gained from bot matches: roughly 2.25 Million experience a day.

Player Level is just an account rank. You get various features and goodies unlocked as you play. These are as follows:
  • Level2: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 4: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 5: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 6: Unlocks Daily Quests
  • Level 7: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Levels 8: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 10: A Seven-Day Stim Pack (+100% XP and Gold from games); 2,000 Gold
  • Level 12: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 15: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 20: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 25: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 30: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 35: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 40: 2,000 Gold

Daily Quests are small tasks the game gives you each day, and upon completion you get 200-800 gold (depending on the quest) for your effort (as an aside, you also get 30 gold for each win, and 20 for each loss). There are currently 4 categories of Daily Quests: play 2 games with a specific franchise hero, play 3 games as a specific role, win 3 games, and play 8 games in any mode. Note that the Retro and Overwatch universes are currently not used for the franchise daily quests.
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Hero Level is a series of unlocks for specific heroes. Each hero has their own level, and playing games with them will increase their level (alongside your player level). Here are hero unlocks:
  • Level 5: 500 Gold
  • Level 6: Hero Portrait; Mount Tint #1
  • Level 7: Hero Tint #1
  • Level 8: Hero Tint #2
  • Level 9: Hero Master Portrait; Mount Tint #2; 750 Gold
  • Level 10: Allows purchase of Master Skin (10,000 gold)
  • Level 15: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 20: 2,000 Gold

To unlock Ranked Modes, you must own at least 14 heroes that are level five or higher. Free rotation heroes count towards this total so long as they meet this level requirement.

Recruit-a-Friend
Blizzard introduced the RAF program in their December update. With this program veteran players will earn rewards for recruiting new members. New members also get bonuses. It's a win-win for everyone!

Veteran RAF rewards:
  • A Portrait when 1 friend reaches account level 10
  • Vulture Mount when 4 friends reach account level 10

Recruit RAF rewards:
  • A 5-day stimpack
  • Jim Raynor as a free hero at account level 1
  • Sylvanas as a free hero upon reaching account level 10
  • A Portrait when reaching account level 10
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What are some good newbie heroes?
Assassin: Raynor, Warrior: Muradin, Support: Li Li, and Specialist: Nazeebo. Avoid Abathur,
(Cho'gall, Rexxar, Murky, and the Lost Vikings as they have very atypical designs that are best played when you have more experience with the game.)

What's the best way to get experience?
Quick Match. Practice has an experience penalty, and cooperative games are (on average) shorter than Quick Match games. This means you spend more time in queues when doing co-op whereas QM you are in the game earning XP (it's time-based for xp earned per game). There's also the 50,000 xp win bonus you get from QM that you can't from co-op. Hero and Team League are probably worse xp because you have to spend time picking heroes. The only reason to play co-op is because you just can't win in QM for a daily.

What is the fastest way to get gold?
There is none. First, do the tutorials. They don't net you a ton of gold, but it's a decent amount and worth spending ~30-45 minutes to get. From there, the least slow way is to do your daily quest (the game saves up to three quests so you can miss a day or two) and then play with friends on heroes you have not gotten to level five or nine with yet. Start with heroes you don't own yet, and then switch to owned heroes if you manage to get all 10 free rotation heroes to level 5 or 9 within a week. That right there is about 5000 gold a week for the next month or so, not counting gold from account levels and games played. Once you hit 40 and have all heroes to level nine you can then do dailies (about 250 gold a day) and grind heroes to 15 and 20 for more gold, but the latter is a significantly longer process than getting a hero to level five or nine.

Do not buy stimpacks. They are not worth the money unless you can play around 10+ games a day for a month straight. The seven-day stimpacks are even worse.

Also, each week a hero is on sale for 25%-50% off real-world money prices, so that's another option if you're willing to lay down hard cash on the game.

When is the next patch?
Patches have been on a fairly consistent seven-week cycle since launch. Basically a patch will go up on PTR for a week, then it goes live with a new hero. Three weeks later, the second hero in that patch is released but there are no changes barring minor bugfixes or something. Then three weeks after that the next patch goes up on PTR, and the cycle begins anews.

How does the new hero pricing model work?
All new heroes are released at a starting cost of 15k. This price will be in place for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, the price drops to 10k. Beyond that, there is no set rule or guideline for when a hero will further drop in price. Blizzard has occasionally gone through and updated hero pricing on multiple heroes at once, (i.e. when they made Li Li a 2k hero and Arthas a 7k hero), but there's no hard rule for when older heroes get price drops.

Cross Promotional stuff?
World of Warcraft
WoW Character Level 100: Wolf Mount (HotS)
HotS Account Level 20: Grave Golem Pet (WoW)
Legion Deluxe Edition: Felstalker Mount (HotS)

Diablo 3
Seasonal Character 70: Malthael's Phantom Mount (HotS)
HotS Account Level 12: Pennant and Player Border (D3)

Starcraft 2
Buy Legacy of the Void (any version): Unlock Artanis (HotS)
Buy Legacy of the Void Collector's Edition: Void Seeker Mount (HotS)

Hearthstone
Win 100 Games: Hearthstone Card Mount (HotS)
HotS Account Level 12: HotS Themed Card Back (HS)

Overwatch
Buy Overwatch Origins OR Collector's Edition: Unlock Tracer (HotS)

How do I play with all of you fine people?
Type "/join heroes of the wang" in game to join our PA chat channel. Great for finding games! Also, check out the Battle Tag list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecv0bT9DEo

milk ducks on
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Posts

  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    this game is great you should play it

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I ran into a bug earlier today with @Dibby where I queued as Arthas but then entered the game as Falstad. Thankfully Blizz seems aware of the bug, but it's a pretty bad one. Hopefully it only affects QM...

  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Have decided to just not play warriors and supports in HL unless i'm drafting last and need to fill. I can't save these people anymore, so what if instead I just kill the enemies myself.

    2-0 in this brave post-support world.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Have decided to just not play warriors and supports in HL unless i'm drafting last and need to fill. I can't save these people anymore, so what if instead I just kill the enemies myself.

    2-0 in this brave post-support world.

    People shouldn't be playing HL if they are unwilling or unable to play all roles, especially if they are last picking.

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Haven't played in a while but I can't wait to try the new Anub. He's one of my best characters with a 70% win rate already, I used him to carry myself out of ELO hell up to rank 20, pretty much. Even in his weaker state he absolutely carried games with how disruptive he was. Now with buffs? Yes please.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Have decided to just not play warriors and supports in HL unless i'm drafting last and need to fill. I can't save these people anymore, so what if instead I just kill the enemies myself.

    2-0 in this brave post-support world.

    People shouldn't be playing HL if they are unwilling or unable to play all roles, especially if they are last picking.

    That's why I think they should allow people to queue with some sort of survey system where they can check boxes for the roles they are willing to fill, more boxes checked means faster queues, less boxes checked means longer queues.

    In some cases, a person might be eligible for HL and be good enough to participate in it with certain heroes, but not own all heroes, or not own enough heroes in a specific role to be able to fill.

    I had a game a week ago in HL where I got first pick, so I grabbed a mage or someone else OP, and as the draft unfolded, we got to the last dude, we needed a healer, and the guy only owned 2 healers. He owned Rehgar and Morales. Naturally, the way the draft went, Morales was banned and the other team already had Rehgar.

    HL queue doesn't take that sort of variable into account, but it needs to if it's going to continue to randomly assign a place in the draft for people. Or - as I suggest - find a way to let people to queue for the roles they want.

    I personally don't enjoy the warrior role. I still do it on occasion because I am decently proficient at Muradin, Johanna, and (old) Diablo. So I can fill when absolutely necessary, but it's never my first choice. And in fact I even had that one game with no healer on my team as Muradin and ended with 0 deaths and a win. So I can do well in the role, I would just always rather play a different role.

    Lucascraft on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    On the two reworks, my impression overall is that Arthas is now solid. He's got some good builds, especially I think his Death Coil one, and he does his thing well. But he's not blowing up the charts.

    Anub, on the other hand, I think is really strong right now. Not OP but they did a really good job with him. He's got a few options and a few builds and he feels suitably tanky and distrupty and just really does his thing really well.

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    shryke wrote: »
    On the two reworks, my impression overall is that Arthas is now solid. He's got some good builds, especially I think his Death Coil one, and he does his thing well. But he's not blowing up the charts.

    Anub, on the other hand, I think is really strong right now. Not OP but they did a really good job with him. He's got a few options and a few builds and he feels suitably tanky and distrupty and just really does his thing really well.

    I'm super impressed with both, yeah.

    I know I mentioned that I considered Remorseless Winter mandatory at 16, but I have changed my mind on that. I think it's only mandatory vs melee heavy comps. Against mostly ranged comps you probably wanna take Embrace Death instead and get those chunky Death Coil heals.

    Anub'arak is great as well. I like that he has two viable builds now, as well. Beetle build is great for messing with skillshot-heavy Heroes, and E/W build provides some nice disruption. Dampen Magic is a REALLY nice level 1 talent as well.

    I'm not sure which I like more. They're both great and super fun. Arthas is an all-in kinda dude, though. He's got no escape and can be focused down pretty quickly. But if your team is able to capitalize on Arthas's CC, you're solid.

    Also I'm really curious why they cut Regen Master from Arthas... I guess they thought he already had plenty of self healing? Hmm.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    On the two reworks, my impression overall is that Arthas is now solid. He's got some good builds, especially I think his Death Coil one, and he does his thing well. But he's not blowing up the charts.

    Anub, on the other hand, I think is really strong right now. Not OP but they did a really good job with him. He's got a few options and a few builds and he feels suitably tanky and distrupty and just really does his thing really well.

    I'm super impressed with both, yeah.

    I know I mentioned that I considered Remorseless Winter mandatory at 16, but I have changed my mind on that. I think it's only mandatory vs melee heavy comps. Against mostly ranged comps you probably wanna take Embrace Death instead and get those chunky Death Coil heals.

    Anub'arak is great as well. I like that he has two viable builds now, as well. Beetle build is great for messing with skillshot-heavy Heroes, and E/W build provides some nice disruption. Dampen Magic is a REALLY nice level 1 talent as well.

    I'm not sure which I like more. They're both great and super fun. Arthas is an all-in kinda dude, though. He's got no escape and can be focused down pretty quickly. But if your team is able to capitalize on Arthas's CC, you're solid.

    Also I'm really curious why they cut Regen Master from Arthas... I guess they thought he already had plenty of self healing? Hmm.

    I think yeah, perhaps they thought if they cut it they could bump up Death Coil's healing more without it becoming ridiculous to try and kill Arthas.

    The other option is they wanted to give him more aggressive options at lvl 1. I mean, I'm taking the buff to his trait half the time because if they aren't a team against which block works well, why not?

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
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    Yeah okay, New Anub GIVES EM THE BIDNESS

    Holy fuck I love this Hero. He's so great. E/W build is where it's atttt. Anub just feels so satisfying to play now.

    Also, Void Prison+Burrow Charge post-16 (once you have Epicenter) is a REALLY rude combo. Stun on the whole team? Yes please.

    I've tried both Locust Swarm and Cocoon and I've come to realize that Cocoon is not good for pub play. No one understands how you're suppose to capitalize on it, at all. I toss a Cocoon on their beefy frontline tank or their sole healer so we can blow someone up. But instead my team either 1) does nothing in that window or 2) hustles around the Cocoon instead, and the enemy team capitalizes on that. Even when I isolate a target away from the enemy team, my team STILL manages to botch the gank somehow.

    Cocoon's a great Ult but only if your team is coordinated and understands the purpose of it. Otherwise, Locust Swarm for more damage/sustainability. Plus Hive Master at 20 is some rude bidness.

    Edit: Also at this point? Yeah, I think I agree with the sentiment that Anub>>>Arthas. Sorry Artho. You rock, but not as hard as Anub. Anub'arak is just much more versatile aaaand has an escape (which is super important for a Bruiser!).

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Can you post a full build? I've been meaning to give him a try in QM.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Can you post a full build? I've been meaning to give him a try in QM.

    http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/anubarak#kFHx

    You can sub Dampen Magic for Regen Master if you don't need it.

    You can grab whatevs at 20, I just like Hive Master most of the time.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Man. I've been looking over Chromie's stats on hotslogs now that she has a few more days of games recorded. The situation is bleak and it has not improved much since the initial Tuesday results showed that people are really good at losing with her.

    What was Lunara's week 1 win percentage? It wasn't nearly that low. I can't remember specifically what it was, but I don't think it was much worse than 45%.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Also regarding Chromie - it's too bad she's too new to be included in the Summer Regionals/Finals. We probably won't see her used at the pro level until they start the Fall season. I'd love to see some top level play of her by people who are good at landing skillshots.

  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Also regarding Chromie - it's too bad she's too new to be included in the Summer Regionals/Finals. We probably won't see her used at the pro level until they start the Fall season. I'd love to see some top level play of her by people who are good at landing skillshots.

    The pros last night on Town Hall Heroes said that even if she was eligible for play, she would probably rarely be picked. People might discover her niche role in pro comps, but as of right now they say there's not much reason to draft her until they figure out what that is.

    Undead Monkey on
    SteamID: Pudgestomp
    XBL: InvaderJims
    Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    It's a sign of the times that Rune Tap feels weak.

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  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Rune Tap has only gotten nerfed forever. Putting it against a pretty much straight better healing ability (heals for about the same, does damage, doesn't require you to constantly be in melee range) is just mean.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    heh, just had a cool Blackheart's game with @milk ducks that was basically me on Chen terrorizing their back line while their Artanis terrorized our back line. Good times.

    Combination Attack is so good now too, it's ridiculous. I did mostly regen build that game (because you know blackheart's, hit 30 globes at about 18 minutes) and literally was doing >50% of Chromie and Brightwing's health with one rotation, with only Combination Attack as talents; if I had gone for the +damage on kick I'd be damn near 100-0ing them.

    I tickle tanks but that's what you get with Chen, they're also incapable of killing me without help (although enable me to be killed with help).

    Oh yeah, and Duck's great Zeeb play certainly helped a lot, since unlike the other team he was able to keep doing damage while running away!

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  • Tim is on the InternetTim is on the Internet On the Internet Edmonton, ABRegistered User regular
    It's a sign of the times that Rune Tap feels weak.

    Rune Tap's okay, but I have no reason to take it over Immortal Coil.

    Discord: TimIsOnTheInternet#0056
    Steam: TimIsOnSteam
    Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
    Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
    PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
  • BruanBruan Registered User regular
    quickmatch is so frustrating! I feel like these guys have never played this game before.

    Playstation: Anthai (Destiny)
    WiiU: jooncole (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate)
    3DS: 2122-5983-8919
  • Tim is on the InternetTim is on the Internet On the Internet Edmonton, ABRegistered User regular
    Bruan wrote: »
    quickmatch is so frustrating! I feel like these guys have never played this game before.

    Yeeep. "Why aren't you doing anything, Tassadar, when your shield is constantly on cooldown?"

    Discord: TimIsOnTheInternet#0056
    Steam: TimIsOnSteam
    Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
    Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
    PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    oh god I JUST realized why murky is called murky

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  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Sigh, just lost a game because we had a chromie throw 2 fights in a row with bad time traps that saved multiple heroes and then insisted on being cute and running off by herself trying to setup sweet gankz and just setup deaths. Even should have won but she walked off the cap point on sky temple to miss a couple Qs and then we didn't kill their core by 5% since the thing stopped firing. Might be the worst game I've ever lost.

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Finished out my last game of the night as Kael'thas. He eats fucking Chromie for breakfast, man. His flowchart for matchups with Chromie is as simple as, like

    Is Chromie visible? If yes, see next step:
    Is Pyroblast off cooldown? If yes, see next step:
    GG

  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Oh mannn Anub'arak is so good. Urticating Spines w/ Chitinous Plating makes him do a lot of damage and is pretty tanky, and Epicenter is incredible now.

    A+ would bug again.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    oh god I JUST realized why murky is called murky

    ..........

    That was totally obvious. Totally.

    You should share it here, so that we can make sure you didn't get it wrong. Noob

    *cough*

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    oh god I JUST realized why murky is called murky

    ..........

    That was totally obvious. Totally.

    You should share it here, so that we can make sure you didn't get it wrong. Noob

    *cough*

    like, murky water

    because he's a fish

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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    also, "Mur" is the front part of "Murloc"

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    oh god I JUST realized why murky is called murky

    ..........

    That was totally obvious. Totally.

    You should share it here, so that we can make sure you didn't get it wrong. Noob

    *cough*

    like, murky water

    because he's a fish

    Obviously

    ...

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Finished out my last game of the night as Kael'thas. He eats fucking Chromie for breakfast, man. His flowchart for matchups with Chromie is as simple as, like

    Is Chromie visible? If yes, see next step:
    Is Pyroblast off cooldown? If yes, see next step:
    GG

    I'm so fucking tired of Kael'thas. If they didn't implement bans in Draft I would be so frustrated with the state of the game that I likely wouldn't be playing anymore.

  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Finished out my last game of the night as Kael'thas. He eats fucking Chromie for breakfast, man. His flowchart for matchups with Chromie is as simple as, like

    Is Chromie visible? If yes, see next step:
    Is Pyroblast off cooldown? If yes, see next step:
    GG

    I'm so fucking tired of Kael'thas. If they didn't implement bans in Draft I would be so frustrated with the state of the game that I likely wouldn't be playing anymore.

    Kael is the thing that wouldn't die. There was like a 2 week period after his rework when he was bad because we hadn't figured out his current op spec.

    He's been S tier for basically a year now, and really unless they totally kneecap his numbers, he's going to be until they totally redo his stun into something else.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Didn't he eat our face in two games tonight?

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Didn't he eat our face in two games tonight?

    He shows up in nearly every single QM game. And he has a 96.1% pick-or-ban rate in HL, while still managing a 54.5% win rate. And that win rate is incredibly stable across skill levels, each within 1% of the average.

    To put that number in perspective, the next highest pick-or-ban rate in the Top 10 win percentages is Zagara, sitting at 38.3%. And her win rate is 51.6%.

    It's fucking stupid. He's a stupid fucking hero that is unfun to play against and takes absolutely no skill to play. You walk up to someone and then you fucking hit your three ability buttons at once and then walk the fuck away. He spits out more damage in that ~1 second than Raynor can do in 5 seconds of uninterrupted shooting. So when people say that "he has to put himself in danger", I say fuck you, because every single ranged auto-attacker except Raynor has to sit at that exact same range for long periods of time to do their damage, and they don't have the luxury of just hitting three buttons and then leaving, and the vast majority of them also don't have a fucking ranged stun as part of their innate kit.

    I know it's a running theme in this thread that Ant hates Kael, but I don't hate him because of the character. I hate him because he's just too ridiculously overpowered, and it's incredibly unhealthy for the game. If you play QM you see him all the damn time, and combined with Chromie's high skill floor and low win rate, your game is basically decided by a combination of which team has Kael and/or Chromie and how well they are played. You might as well not give a shit what you are playing unless you are one of those heroes, because they nearly singlehandedly decide the outcome of a game even though they comprise, at most, only 40% of the players in the game (or, more likely, 10%-30%). And if you try to play draft, then all he does is basically use up the first or second ban, which means you might as well just not have him in the game at all because his existence precludes players from making an actual decision - if he isn't banned first, he will be banned second because nobody in their right mind would let someone first-pick Kael.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I haven't seen him in my qms today

    good times

    still fuck tracer tho

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I haven't seen him in my qms today

    good times

    still fuck tracer tho

    Yeah, I've seen very little Kael in QM.

    Meanwhile he's auto-ban material in 99% of HL games. And auto-first-pick if he's not banned.

  • GroveGrove Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    I haven't seen him in my qms today

    good times

    still fuck tracer tho

    Yeah, I'm sure Kael is probably more OP, but as a very casual player it feels like Tracer is worse. Just can't get away on some characters.

    Selling PS3 & 360 Madcatz TE Stick
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Anyway, just had the best QM win in a long time.

    So we've got a pretty bad comp.
    Anub (me), Chromie, Nova, Brightwing, Abathur
    vs
    Rexxar, Xul, Tyrande, Tracer, Chromie

    And it goes really badly. Bad soak, can't hold temples because I'm the only one that can tank the NPCs and I need to peel like crazy for everyone and they've got CC and damage up the ying-yang.

    We're like 3 forts behind and 2 levels by the time we hit 9 and they hit 11. At this point, our BW says "Fuck this shit and all of you" to us and rage quits. We all report and move on. We keep losing, though actually less so cause even though AI BW dies more she seemed to be better at healing the team and sticking with us. We are taking mercs and clearing as best we can and sticking togther, but losing pretty steadily.

    But we keep fairly even. Only a few levels behind. And Anub really scales well with levels and talents imo so we are getting stronger and stronger. We're down to just our keeps, all of which are slightly damage and all the gates are gone. They have fully intact keep setup and 1 fort still up. Temple spawns mid. We are grabbing bruisers and clearing their bruisers out. We head to temple.

    Just as it starts up, we are sitting on top of it and they come charging in down on us. In a group. I'm like "Well, this is my time" and burrow charge in. The instant they see me start, Nova hits Precision Strike on them and Chromie drops her slow field ult and her W. 4 man stun, instant triple kill. Chromie tries to limp away but Nova blows the back of her head off. Only Tracer makes it out. Mercs and temple take the fort and start workign on some gates. We quickly rotate down and take boss and siege giants and push bot lane right to their keep and then retreat as they respawn, getting a few picks with another Burrow Charge/Precision Strike/Chromie combo.

    We're both 20 now but we're still alot of structure behind. Double temple spawns top and mid. We grab mid and their survivors go top. We probably make a bad move here because BW is a stupid AI and so leave too many people mid for too long. (if BW had been a competant person, we'd have left her taking mid temple and all gone top). Because of the delay, they take most of top temple and blow up 2 keeps. Bottom keep is all that's left and it's at like 80% health. We get a few kills though and steal the end of the temple.

    We mill about, taking camps, clearing shit out and trying to push back the lanes as best we can. Abathur is pushing hard and getting them to run around after him. Single temple spawns top. We set up but it's a bad engage. We lose everyone but Abathur and Chromie. They take the temple. Last keep goes down. Core down to 22%. They are pretty injured though. Tracer tries to rush the core but Chromie and my just respawned chitinous ass push her off. The rest of the team respawns then and we note the boss was just freshly respawned. They aren't rushing core (dumb move) so we know where they are. We rush over.

    Boss is at like 10% health when we get there. They see us coming and start clumping up on boss to ensure the cap. We're like "Oh boy!". Burrow charge in, Precision Strike, Chromie drops the W. Abathur hats me, I pop the Locust Swarm and Hardened Shield and just stand there. And get absolutely massacred along with BW. But they are really low. Chromie and Nova rush in and it's a mega kill. We steal boss and they push bot right to core.

    And boom, we win.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Grove wrote: »
    I haven't seen him in my qms today

    good times

    still fuck tracer tho

    Yeah, I'm sure Kael is probably more OP, but as a very casual player it feels like Tracer is worse. Just can't get away on some characters.

    Tracer is worse. Because Kael may be OP, but he has counterplay.

    Tracer's problem is she is a super hard counter to a good, like, half the heroes in the game. Just wrecks them in a way they can't stop. It feels awful and it's frustrating as hell because there's basically almost nothing you can do about it.

    It's not a very good design. And it's never gonna balance properly because the issues are inherent to her kit. (ie - high mobility and uninterruptable damage that just does it's thing as long as she is near you)

    shryke on
  • MagmyGeraithMagmyGeraith Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Oh mannn Anub'arak is so good. Urticating Spines w/ Chitinous Plating makes him do a lot of damage and is pretty tanky, and Epicenter is incredible now.

    A+ would bug again.

    I bought him last night due to people saying how good he was. His kit just feels so right. My hero damage numbers are always pathetically low, but those chain stuns setup so many ganks. I had a QM where we didn't have a Chromie (thankfully) and the enemy team did. Poor thing would appear and die just with the burrow charge.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    As painful as it is to say this - I think I'm gonna hang up Chromie for now till they do something to improve her awful state.

    I've put enough games into her now that she's about halfway through level 7.

    These are my thoughts on Chromie (in no particular order):
    -- She takes way too much effort for how little payoff there is. Why should I spend all this time trying to land hard-to-hit skillshots when I can just queue as Kael and get better results with minimal effort. Or to a lesser degree Jaina or Li Ming. The payoffs are just too small to warrant the much higher difficulty of playing this character.

    -- Her lack of escapes is not properly balanced by the safety of long range. There are way too many characters that can easily close the range gap and absolutely destroy her. Last night we went up against Judgement Tyrael, Tracer, Zeratul, Nova, Anub'arak, and a Leoric who used his wraith walk offensively to ghost past our entire front line, get right up on me and then easily kill me with a swipe->drain combo.

    -- Kael'thas can more easily Full-to-dead me than anyone else I went against. Stun into Flamestrike into Living Bomb resulted in my death repeatedly. Or he could just flank from the side and put a Pyro on me and 1-hit kill me.


    And lastly, and not related to her balance or gameplay - her kit is not interesting, nor is it thematically appropriate. They went way overboard with the "sands" part of Sands of Time, rather than the time element, which is much more interesting. Sand Blasts and Sand Dragon attacks are just re-skinned fireballs and flamestrikes. They're not really doing anything interesting here. Her moves are just reskinned moves that already exist, but with more effort required to use them. Likewise, Chromie is an effin' dragon and that isn't really even utilized at all. Sure, her Clairvoyance has a dragon flyover spell effect, but that's not really anything special. And according to Hotslogs, she has the lowest winrate when she takes that talent.

    Chromie needs a redo with an entirely new kit that is thematically appropriate to being a dragon and a member of the bronze dragonflight and being able to control time itself.

This discussion has been closed.