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Divorce counseling/therapy advice
FinalBoss
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
As previously discussed several months ago, I am in an unhealthy relationship. We've been together for close to 15 years. We're different people.
My wife has engaged in abusive behavior. It was nearly a year ago, but she slapped me. She slapped once, on two separate occasions.
Since the last slap, I've seen things differently. Not all abuse has to be physical. There can be mental abuse, emotional abuse. I dont really want to go into it again.
I've read some articles and realized this isn't a healthy relationship and she isn't just cranky.
She has a temper, but 90% of the time, shes a very sweet person.
She's actually been awarded for her kindness and great attitudes.
Things aren't what they were. I'm tired of living anxiously and just being OK.
Are they any kind of free discrete counseling services? Advice I could get?
My workplace has an employee assistance program, but I don't know how far it goes before it isn't free any more.
My wife has engaged in abusive behavior. It was nearly a year ago, but she slapped me. She slapped once, on two separate occasions.
Since the last slap, I've seen things differently. Not all abuse has to be physical. There can be mental abuse, emotional abuse. I dont really want to go into it again.
I've read some articles and realized this isn't a healthy relationship and she isn't just cranky.
She has a temper, but 90% of the time, shes a very sweet person.
She's actually been awarded for her kindness and great attitudes.
Things aren't what they were. I'm tired of living anxiously and just being OK.
Are they any kind of free discrete counseling services? Advice I could get?
My workplace has an employee assistance program, but I don't know how far it goes before it isn't free any more.
FinalBoss on
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I might suggest checking with the local YWCA or women's shelters. Anyone can be abused or the abuser, but statistically I think you will find that the women's orgs are better in contact with free resources and government funded projects. Also, if you're religiously active there's options there.
There's a risk of a bad therapist in a free program for a lot of reasons. Then again, I had a bad one and I paid for it. At the very least, you'll have a lot more options finding the right counselor if you are paying for it. I understand wanting to save money, but if this is something you need, make it work. If my wife said to me "I'd do anything to fix this marriage, as long as it's free," I'd get the point.
Also, from personal experience on the marriage issues/therapy front, discreet isn't always best. When I went through my marriage counseling ordeal, I wanted to keep everything on the DL to avoid the embarrassment and shame, and to do the same for my wife. In retrospect, that was a bad idea - letting others know your problems creates understanding and support for you and accountability for her. Everyone's different, of course, but I regret hiding therapy, and the underlying problems, from everyone.
Keep your head up and do whatever you have to do to get her to do the work. Just being OK forever is awful. I hope you don't have to go through that.
Finally, excellent choice for an Alt name.
stuck out to me the most. Abusers can be extremely charismatic and manipulative to everyone on the outside, which is why it's so hard to get out or seek help.
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
While counseling resources are good to have, maybe look into legal options as well. You seem like you really want out, but even if you aren't sure it can help you work things out in your head when you know your options. I cannot stress enough that if/when you end up doing this the lawyer you choose should not have any kind of ties to her or her family. It can only work against you.
Most EAPs will put you in touch with a local specialist after a short period of time if the problem isn't solved, they most definitely don't start charging you in secret. It's a pretty good place to start!
We're planning a big "once in your life time on our salary wage slave careers" vacation. I feel held hostage by it, but I feel she deserves this trip too, it's with her family. We took vacations with mine in previous years.
There no way either one of us could afford this trip without the other.
And she just received word that she has a minor but possibly long term health problem.
Am I bad person for wanting out?
no.
you're not happy and you seem to be in an unhealthy relationship.
I don't see how either of us can financially survive a divorce.
And what will happen to our cat and dogs?
amicable divorce without children isn't very expensive (though to be fair, it -can- be). You need to file for seperation (usually along with an agreement as to who gets what), wait a year, file for absolute divorce, and you're done.
maybe one take the dog and the other the cat?
(I highly suggest the dog)
I don't see how either of us could live financially without the other. Two dogs and a cat, two car payments, a mortgage. Lots of bills.
She's very good at the bill thing, but I don't understand our system. When I ask about it, she gets very frustrated when I don't understand it. But, she's ok with running that show and our credit is almost perfect .
And she is still madly in love with me, when things are going well. She gushes about me to people.
When they aren't, they're bad. She says I don't love her if I disagree too much.
She has ridiculous Disney/Chick Flick expectations for our marriage, and after 15 years of it and fighting if it's not perfect, I'm exhausted ...
And we've already put a bunch of money down on this vacation with her family.
Well, there has been when she's said it, and I keep forgiving her, but I can't forget that she's said it , or the two slaps, or the accusations of infidelity.
I feel strongly about this stuff when I'm alone, but when she's around, I feel guilty and in love at the same time.
That said, concerning your financial situation I would expect the house would be sold, the cars split, and most of those bills to be mitigated as you split and move into different properties. If one of you can support the house payment solo, that could be an option but more likely than not if you have split income needed to cover your current expenses you both will need to adjust to more realistic circumstances after the divorce. Likely that means transitioning back into a rental property after liquidating the house, and splitting whatever profits/debts remaining after the sale equally between the two of you. For the pets, possessions, etc. that is part of what your lawyers will work out with you for an amicable agreement on who gets what.
You've got a lot of good responses here, and no one on the internet is going to convince you to do anything you weren't going to do anyway. Do you want a divorce or separation? If so go get a lawyer. Do you not want one? Go to marriage counseling. Do you just want to complain to a concerned ear and get your frustrations off your chest? That's what a good therapist is for. There are lots of options at this stage, you got to pick which one you want to follow though.
We are not lawyers, therapists, or marriage counselors. The best (and really only) advice we should give you is to seek professional assistance.
So everything you wrote here my mom could've written, 3 years ago. The main difference is that my mom had 6 kids (3 at home) to add to the dogs, cats, car payments and mortgage and bills.
She didn't know *anything* about the billing system, either.
Anyway, my parents split, after nearly 30 years of abusive marriage. And my mom figured it out. With things like bills, the worst case scenario is you ring the companies directly and they can usually walk you through payments over the phone. Also, don't be afraid to rely on any and all help offered (be in in-person or online).
You'll probably surprise yourself at how much you can actually do when it comes to it. With this kind of draining, emotional abuse, your self-confidence has likely been slowly chipped away at and you probably feel a lot more helpless than you actually are.
You know the answer, but you are scared. Scared because you think of yourself as less than. As incapable. As unable to handle such a massive change. Am I getting warm here?
That is what abusers do. They break you down. They show you a world where you are insignifcant and your desires are nothing while they are so important and strong and everything they need is critical.
It's crap.
They are weak. Too weak to survive on their own. They choose strong but trusting people to abuse in order to have someone else care for them because they are incapable. You are strong. Strong enough to not just care for yourself but for another person. All of this while being beaten down and forced to question your very value as a person. You. Are. Strong.
Is divorce right? Only you know. No one can tell you it's the right decision. I can tell you from everything you posted it sounds to me like it's what you want. I have seen this drama play out many times, and my professional opinion is your life is in danger. She has shown a willingness to destroy her property, and if everything you have posted is accurate then that is what you are. Property.
She has already shown a willingness to hit you to keep you in line. She will eventually need to escalate. I beg you, please don't be there when she decides it is time.
The choice though is yours as I said. If this is a life you are happy leading then keep going. So I guess the question is, deep down in your heart, are you happy?
Do it however you need to do it. A note, a text, sky writing, whatever. People get down on it, but this is not a normal circumstance so screw convention. Hell you could disappear to your parents and let her know when she is served the papers.
Now I would advise to tell her as directly as you feel comfortable. The last part of that sentence is still the key. How you are comfortable is key.
We met in high school
Got engaged in college
Married shortly after graduation
After the second slap last summer, things started to crumble
And I started examining my relationship and finding flaws in lots of places
But we're not fighting right now, so i feel selfish and guilty and dishonest
People change as they grow up. This continues well into old age. What you hold to be true and the core part of who you are as a person is different from when you were in high school and different from when you were in college.
And you can still love each other and still not be right for a relationship together. Domestic abuse is basically the biggest red flag for this.
Right now, you need to seek out professional help, preferably a good therapist and a lawyer. Confiding to random strangers on the internet isn't the way to go for this.
You don't need to be fighting *right now* to be in an abusive relationship. This is trapping you in a catch-22. You can't leave when you are fighting, because you are scared of her. You can't leave when you are not fighting because it is OK right now. Stop thinking of the perfect time (because it will never come up) and walk.
I don't know that there exists a magic thing that someone can come in here and say to completely put your mind at ease about leaving, or make you happy to stay. Either way I sincerely doubt it. We can only say so much, and we don't have to live with the consequences of your decision, so bearing that in mind I would look into some one-on-one counseling to get your head sorted out, and a lawyer to explore your options. It might sound dumb but really researching and knowing what options are available to you, what they mean, and their long term consequences can make big decisions a whole lot clearer. Maybe not easier, but at least clearer. Maybe if you have a good relationship with them you can talk to your parents. Having people close to you on your side can help too, especially if they're willing to hold your hand a bit.
We can only offer so much in the way of advice, and tell you where to start to look for answers. Everything after that has to come from you.
Think about what your relationship was like at it's absolute worst. Not an isolated incident. The worst few days you had together. What was it like, living like that? How do you feel about the possibility of going back to living like that, even for a couple of days?
Because at some point, it will be like that again. And it'll stay that way for longer. And longer. And you'll be stuck, living in your worst days with her, with no way of knowing when, or if she'll go back to normal and be the person you thought your married again.
How do you feel about that? Is it possible for you to live like that safely? (Physically and emotionally.)
Additionally, I suggest you alter your outlook on "good time" to leave vs "bad time." You and your safety are the only things that should factor into how optimal your timing is. Don't think about your abuser's feelings. Don't think about their schedule, beyond whether or not they might come home while you're moving out.
On that subject, there are two ways to move out. You can grab your stuff and run, or you can make an escape plan. Both have advantages depending on your situation.
Running works best if you're situation is so unbearable you need to get out immediately. It's pretty straight forward, grab some essentials and leave. It won't put you in a particularly secure position, but that doesn't matter if you're in danger.
Planning works best if you've got a semi-bearable situation, or if you've got children/pets in the mix. Talk to some lawyers, get your financial situation & paperwork under control, figure out where you're escaping to, and move your stuff out while she's not around. It takes time, which is dangerous if your safety's at risk, but it puts you in a more secure position once you're out. My escape was planned.
I'm planning a break away.
Thank you all.
You can do it.
We're all rooting for you.
Did you miss the part where letting your abuser know you're leaving is dangerous?
Yeah abusive relationships don't work that way, he doesn't owe her shit for it.
No. He owes her nothing.
This is incredibly horrible (and dangerous) advice.
Leave while she's gone. If you feel the need to talk to her "in person" do it via video call somewhere other than where you've escaped to. (You do NOT want her knowing where you've gone.) But don't expect it to go well, or afford you any sense of closure.
Good luck & be safe!
Now, it's mostly verbal abuse, I guess.
I'm not really sure what emotional abuse is, is this legit?
http://liveboldandbloom.com/11/relationships/signs-of-emotional-abuse
I guess I check a lot of those boxes.
Do I emotionally abuse her?
I live in Pennsylvania. What should I know before I contact a lawyer for divorce?
Wherever you are, before you contact a lawyer about divorce you should have their phone number and know that divorce is something they work with on a regular basis. A consultation will tell you the rest. Just like any other professional providing a service, you want to make sure it's someone who knows what they're doing, is experienced, and who you can work with. I don't think there is usually a commitment attached to a consultation, but you want to find that out when you call before you make the appointment. It's okay to talk to a few before you decide on one.
This is a new idea for you. Let the person or people you talk to explain your options, and keep an open mind. What is important to you to get out of this? There are different ways to go about divorce, different levels of financial commitment, there are kids so you'll need to consider custody arrangements, etc. It's complicated but I know you likely want to do what's best, so let those you consult with walk you through the possibilities.
To you this is new and scary, but this won't be your lawyer's first rodeo. This is their job, and they've seen this or something similar to it a hundred times before. They should be able to elaborate on the various possible outcomes and long-term consequences of the different roads you can take. Try to relax as much as you can, and let a pro walk you through it.
You are amazing. I am unbelievably impressed by your strength and courage quite truly. The abuse was real. The physical abuse was real. It was all real and you survived. Surviving is the most amazing thing you can do, and gives you undeniable strength. We all believe in you and are hear for support. Best of luck with the lawyer. Pennsylvania is far out from anyone I know.
You're alive.
You let her know a date you're doing it.
Try and do it when she's not there?
The text said she wasn't keeping things from me, to let her know when I want in.
I'll be honest, that sounds a bit dodgey.
She's waited until you left to change the locks.
I agree with getting a buddy to come help you get your stuff. To help shift things in half the time and to have a witness in case she tries anything.
Am I being paranoid?
Probably.
It is better to be safe than sorry.
I'm meeting with a lawyer Thursday. I have about a week's worth of clothes with me at my parents' place.
I haven't spoken to my wife since Friday.
It isn't going to be a simple breakup, we are married, we have a mortgage and a car loan, and joint bank accounts .
My parents gave me some money to set up a new bank account. I will repay them when I can.