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People cry at my job. Like, a lot.
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Not to derail, but I'm pretty sure this is explicitly illegal (for a company to badmouth you to this degree). I think there may even be local ordinances where, depending on your locale, it isn't even legal to give a negative review if explicitly asked by a potential employer. I have to find a citation for that but I remember reading that some time ago.
I've worked in corporate America for 13+ years now and I find it detestable that they (it?) have successfully cultivated a culture of desperate fear among workers.
I'm not suggesting going around burning every bridge, but for this kind of company, fuck 'em. Your career is much more resilient than you might imagine, and I wouldn't fear getting "buried" as much as is suggested here.
That said, prudence is probably the best option despite my incendiary remarks. My position isn't necessarily pragmatic.
Ultimately, though, you most likely live somewhere where it is your legal right to leave without notice and you should feel absolutely no guilt or fear in exercising your legal right, and your employer absolutely has no legal right to slander you for exercising yours. You aren't a bad employee if you quit without notice. You are a citizen exercising his or her legal rights to terminate your at will employment with the employer (again, assuming you live in an at will state or a state with similar laws).
I think that's highly unlikely given 1st amendment issues and the US's attitude on truth being a perfect defense against libel. Which is the rub, they can say anything true about you they want and be protected even if it damages your reputation. They get in trouble when they make unverifiable claims that are negative.
Corporate places don't do this sort of thing because it has no upside for them even if they've documented all the negatives. It's some emotional catharsis (which has no monetary value and so irrelevant to a corporation policy) balanced against a risk of a law suit. Even winning a law suit costs money and always has the risk of going the wrong way. It's all risk and no reward so shareholders would never have it.
Of course, if the guy you fucked in the majority owner and is really pissed at you, hiring a lawyer to vet statements like "Gave 1 minutes of notice" isn't an impossibility.
If you can afford to risk 2 weeks without pay, I would give the 2 weeks.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
No, this isn't true - if a hiring manager from one company calls another company to find out about a previous employee, they can't actually say much of anything about you, even if true. There are surprisingly strict rules about that sort of thing. However, the one thing that can get through is, "would you employ this person again?" to which they could say "no" without consequence.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
Er, what do you mean by "rules"? If you mean legally, I know of no such basis for this and would be very interested in learning about it as I could never find any. If you mean corporate rules, yes, that was what I was explaining why they're there. Again, the corporation isn't legally constrained but rather has no benefit from saying (or letting employees say) those things and substantial risk from doing so. This is very different than a legal "can't".
High 5 fellow corporate citizen. I do agree that they shouldn't be able to say anything legally, but I was more referring to the other avenues - professionals getting drinks etc.
While you may be targeting the company, people remember what you did to them, so if they end up with your projects, their ire will be misplaced onto the employee, not the company. Usually companies like this aren't quite dumb enough to badmouth you officially, but they sure as heck will shit talk you verbally at social events. While your career IS resilient enough to take just quitting, if you can avoid throwing hurdles in front of yourself, it's often best to do it (especially given that you seem pretty level-headed despite the circumstances - if you were incredibly depressive or seeing other major impacts, I'd go with Drez on the immediate quitting).
Not to mention like everyone already mentioned, that it's just the professional thing to do, and you never know how and where your reputation is going to follow you.
Also just because the company is a dumpster fire doesn't mean your fellow employees won't end up being an important part of your career network in the future. I've caught a few different heinous management decisions right on the neck, but things continue to work out because my former coworkers know that I'm not an asshole and we've continued to look out for each other.
And also obviously have a signed offer in hand when you deliver the notice.
I worked at a place where I had my finger in so many pies that I knew they were going to be kinda boned by my leaving, and I was in the middle of a couple major projects. I expressed to my new employer that I understood they needed me to start quickly, but that I also wanted to help my old employer transition through my leaving, and asked how much time they could reasonably give me. We settled on one month, and I did the best I could to help the old place prep and finish up as much as I could.
Now, my old employer was pretty great and I legitimately wanted to help them out, but even beyond that I had a clear conscience about my handling of the situation, and the new employer was impressed with the way I treated a bunch of guys I had no obligation to help out. Win-win.
Also, the old employer offered to pay me double my salary to do a bit of contract work for them a couple weekends a month while they found a replacement. So money is cool.
I would negotiate as much time as possible (though maybe not two months) and see what happens. And if your current place rage-fires you on the spot after you announce your departure, either enjoy your extended vacation, or contact the new place and tell them that you will be available earlier than anticipated and that if they'd like you to start sooner, you can.
Down the road, you'll feel a lot better about having been the bigger man to a bunch of fuckos who didn't deserve it than you will about having flipped them a double bird on your way out the door.
And secondly, people are individuals first, and companies second. What I mean is, you can't treat all the people you work with as some sort of giant, monolithic entity that will always represent one thing. The reality is, people will come and go. Many of them likely feel the same way you do, and will move on to greener pastures. What you don't want to have happen is to have those folks think of you as the kind of person who would treat others badly or do something out of spite, even if it's warranted. I have seen many folks in terrible situations end up in really great situations because they were literally better people than everyone around them, and those who moved on recognized that and wanted to keep working with them elsewhere.
Your first step, though, should be to find other work immediately. And keep your mouth shut while you're doing it.
Until you have other options, your only other recourse is to just quit. Make sure you are giving yourself options. Do not stay at that place any longer than you have to.
I'm going to avoid getting to far into the management aspect of this, but it sounds like the owners are good at what they do, but poor at managing people.
If you manage projects or fill a pretty essential roll in the company, it is nice to provide a longer notice, but it is not required. For example, if you work on specific projects/manage long term projects, offer to help transition the projects to another employee during your notice period. Schuss had a good point, as it may feel good to drop the mic and walk out, but over the course of your career, the networking you did at this company may be important down the road. Always be professional, and firm in stating your intended departure time. I recommend at the very least formally submitting a notice and handing it directly to your supervisor/employer, that way you can discuss details on transitioning.
If the environment is as toxic as you say it is, they may fire you on the spot. But at least you made an effort, and did things right. The rest is on them, your reputation is untarnished. Make sure you mentally identify a few people you've worked with as being good references. If the management is as bad as they sound, you may want to also include a co-worker as well as your company reference.
Good luck.
Just to be pedantic, truth is not a *perfect* defense against libel.
The circumstances where it isn't are pretty rare, though.
As far as quitting on no notice: I'm in camp "the boss deserves it, the rest of the place not so much. "
I've been in an environment where people walked out and none of the workload was handled by the toxic boss.
I host a podcast about movies.
This man was exponentially better at several machines that most of the staff, the hole he left in the company was gaping, and work became much more stressful in his absence after his role as team lead for five years.
But it was still the higher ups that had the gall to question his abilities when he was the only one on the site making things happen, conducting repairs, and was the only one trained on all our freaking machines.
People are asshole sometimes, and its best to get out while you still have your sanity.
This man in particular moved to the literal opposite end of the country after this. We were in Washington state and now he's in Florida.
Run
Every minute you stay there is a minute of potential happiness you could have had somewhere else.
The problem with the "fuck you I'm out" approach is that you have to justify it to your new employer. You have a job now, but you're available for work immediately? Do I really want to hire someone who clearly will allow themselves to reach a breaking point and then just walk?
Or would I rather hire ElJeffe who's up there all "I like to make sure my employers are objectively less screwed when I leave them than when I found them"
Also, as long as you don't try to "quit like a boss" most companies aren't going to try and dick you over. As people have said, it's more of a hassle than to just say "Peace."
But yea, be looking for an exit. Your mental health will start to break; that or you'll just become part of that culture. Not sure which is the worse outcome.
There are no exceptions to this rule. Don't speak if it to anyone. Don't quit until you have something new.
I am trying to convince my husband of this. That even if it's just your three-person team sitting around talking about how shit things have gotten with the new management, do not breathe about the fact that you're thinking about finding a new job. That as far as everyone there is concerned even if the building is actively on fire you plan to work there till you die. Because you just never know who is going to let slip to who, who will then tell who, and we can't afford for him to not be employed for weeks.
He is so cynical, and yet in some ways a strangely trusting soul. We're a lot alike in that way.
You don't always get the chance to defend your actions in context. Sometimes, people hear part of the story, make a (false) judgement, and you never even know that they've done it, and boom, you potentially lost out on an opportunity.
Don't use company resources to find new employment, either.
Use a professional-sounding non-company email address on applications, resumes, sites, etc. Access it from non-company network resources.
Use a phone number owned by you for telephone communications.
Basically, give them no way to see your communications to other companies, and no way to terminate those communications.
As it takes quite a bit more than two weeks for me to functionally replace someone, I, as a hiring manager, will not think ill of you if you wish to give more notice.
Quite the opposite!
That said: There's no way some 20 man design firm has anywhere near the red tape that I have to contend with, and two months for non-management is crazy, and as a general rules it seems more so. It's a nice to have, sure, but if your departure within < two months leaves them in the lurch, that seems like it's on them.
2 months for a non-senior position is fucking nuts, especially given the fact that they can terminate you at will with no notice.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
It's not that bad everywhere, it's just the lack of safety nets and leeway in laws and attitudes that let a lot of companies abuse their workers.
However, people are getting very wise to that and a lot of competition for workers is now about treatment and work/life balance offers. My company has rolled out expanded flex time/shifts, 2 weeks paid for parental leave and a bunch of employee diversity and empowerment programs in the past year. It's not all bad.
PSN:Furlion
Yep, it's not everywhere, especially in the South where the laws are weaker around protections and the courts more friendly to employers. Un or low skilled labor you're probably going to be treated like a rented mule as in this economy most companies know you're replaceable in about 5 minutes.
Kia?
My guess would be a certain one in south carolina
PSN:Furlion
eurozone companies tend to take a stronger stance in favor of labor (see the recent VW debacle when they wanted to locate a factory in KY), but most of the automakers relocating to the US South are doing so because it's practically third-world, from a labor rights perspective
I left this place! It took me about six months to collect my confidence and portfolio materials before being offered a dream job at a company whose conference room is actually titled, "The Batcave."
Yesterday was the final day of my two weeks' notice -- a person from outside of my department came at 4pm to tell me to "get my things and leave," watch me pack up, and then paraded me out of the building. That was, uh, unexpectedly hurtful, and despite otherwise surviving a relatively cold few weeks at the office (both figuratively and literally, as our heat was broken), I sniffled my way home in an Uber. Not my proudest moment.
I start my new position on Wednesday, figuring I might need a few extra days to get it together. While I'm happy to never, ever go back there again, I still feel this weird icky hurt feeling about the whole thing, and a continued stress that "something else" might happen as a sort of prolonged punishment -- I might not receive my last check, they might claim I did not return company equipment, etc.
I don't want to carry negative residue into my new future. For anyone that's transitioned from a terrible situation to a great one, any tips for getting it together?
While it sounds like that person may have been overly brusk, the being escorted out thing is fairly normal from a loss prevention standpoint. You want to make sure that the leaving employee is only taking things that belong to them and not any potential work related product that could help a competitor, and that any access to the building and computer systems is fully revoked. It sucks, but I wouldn't take it personally.
Enjoy your few days off and get hyped for your next step!
It can be hard, moving on. Just remind yourself that it wasn't personal; they were just crazy to everyone.
Try to take something positive from the old place, whether it's some job idea or process, or just the confidence you had to leave.