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[Game of Thrones] OPEN SPOILERS through most recent Season 7 episode. Valar Morghulis.
DevoutlyApathetic
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UPDATED SPOILER RULES:
HELLO! The premiere of Season 7 is fast approaching, so here is your reminder for Spoiler Rules!
Starting as soon as the show airs on Sunday, July 16, this thread is open spoilers regarding Season 7 episodes and information from past seasons.
Repeat, you DO NOT want to come into this thread until you've seen the latest episode, if you want to avoid being spoiled.
For future spoilers in Season 7, i.e. something you heard on the Internet that happens later on the show, something that's in an "insider" article, etc- this must be in spoiler tags and properly labelled.
Book events/things that have not happened in the show must still be spoilered. Label your spoilers "Book spoiler" so people are aware.
I am going to go ahead and change the thread title now. - SIG
By the Grace of Rhollor we have returned to post after being cut down in length!
I'm mostly just going to crib what ElJeffe said last time.
I probably need to revaluate that book only list.
HELLO! The premiere of Season 7 is fast approaching, so here is your reminder for Spoiler Rules!
Starting as soon as the show airs on Sunday, July 16, this thread is open spoilers regarding Season 7 episodes and information from past seasons.
Repeat, you DO NOT want to come into this thread until you've seen the latest episode, if you want to avoid being spoiled.
For future spoilers in Season 7, i.e. something you heard on the Internet that happens later on the show, something that's in an "insider" article, etc- this must be in spoiler tags and properly labelled.
Book events/things that have not happened in the show must still be spoilered. Label your spoilers "Book spoiler" so people are aware.
I am going to go ahead and change the thread title now. - SIG
By the Grace of Rhollor we have returned to post after being cut down in length!
I'm mostly just going to crib what ElJeffe said last time.
ElJeffe wrote:Once upon a time, there were two threads. One was a thread for discussion of the HBO series Game of Thrones. The other was a thread for the book series A Song of Ice and Fire.
They existed together in a constant state of war, and yea there was much strife and reporting of people who would dare to talk about the books on the show thread and vice versa. And verily was this really goddamn stupid and irritating.
Then one day, the all powerful Mod realized that other subforums managed to make do with a single thread for both those things, and even D&D's own The Walking Dead thread could handle book and show discussion in one thread without collapsing into stupid.
And so it came to be that the two threads were struck down and replaced by the One True Thread, a place where all could exist in harmony, secure in the knowledge that the enemies of good etiquette would be exiled for all time.
Short version: you guys get one thread. Don't be dickholes about it, and it'll work fine. Use spoiler tags to indicate if something has only happened in the show or only in the books, within reason. If someone is being an asshole, report it. Use common sense.
You can do this! Don't get shown up by those dumb fuckers in the Walking Dead thread!
Edit: Also! Helpful guideline regarding book spoilers:
The following book related topics should be in spoiler tags:
BOOK PEOPLE ONLY CLICK THIS SPOILER-Everything Greyjoy from Balon dying on.
-Anything having to do with the BwB, or Lady Stoneheart
-Anything having to do with the Citadel
-Anything having to do with the North Remembering (and the northern lords rebelling against the Boltons)
-Anything Aegon
-Arya warging (and Nymeria/visions/etc)
-Bran's visions.
I probably need to revaluate that book only list.
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So It Goes on
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I just really, really don't think that what little we know, or even can assume, point to Sansa actually actively trusting Littlefinger. Trying to use him out of desperation, knowing that he could very well fuck her over again, sure--trusting, no.
That would be about as out of character for Sansa as, say, having Arya draw attention to herself and wander out in a violent city with no protection even though she knows a violent assassin death cult is after her. Totally ridiculous!
That last line is cold, ice cold.
But accurate.
Makes more sense in the books where Robyn has a notable attachment to Sansa, and thus a better reason he would believe her over Petyr.
book:
Law and Order ≠ Justice
In the books, I BELIEVE Edmure was to be a prisoner for life, right? IDK about the garrison though.
Book Edmure is a permanent guest of Casterly Rock. Given that he's highborn that could just mean he has a discrete guard following him around a generally pleasant nobleman life in the castle. Given that he also pissed off Jamie by letting Blackfish escape he might be a guess in one of their oubliette.
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"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Peter Dinklage, sadly, is no longer on that list.
She gave some input into and changed what happens in some of her scenes too. Which makes the bits where Arya tells Lady Crane ways to change the play in the show very meta.
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I'm also not terribly fond with how passive Grey Worm and Melissandre have been as soon as Tyrion showed up. I just don't see why they really give a shit about this dwarf.
Show:
Well neither of them have had a long history of being decision makers. Quite the opposite actually.
Agreed on the spoilered bit, but I think it's 100% in character for two former slaves to be fairly passive people. They're in no way accustomed to standing up for themselves and speaking their own ideas. I recall Dany encouraging them to open up a bit, but without her there that behavior could easily fly out the window.
I'm curious how the books will handle the Arya stuff, because the writing for that was from other shows that don't have as much time/money/clout behind them. What made it to screen should never have left the writers room.
Dany's getting there.
There's a good point that's been made before. The original trilogy was supposed to be Stark/Lannister War, Targ invasion of Westeros, fight against the White Walkers. Things have gotten distorted to the point that a lot of attention had been paid to a character who we were supposed to have payoff for by book 2, forcing us instead to wait an extra four or so. One book providing a bit of background in a first act side story for a major second act character wouldn't have been bad at all.
They've got no idea where to go with so many things in the show. Tyrion is too big a name to get on the boat though, so you get his version of S2 Dany or something.
If that's correct, I can see some very surface-level echoes of that in how the showrunners are implementing it, but it just ain't working.
Having a Tyrion that bottoms out, then uses a Dany administration as a second chance makes for a more compelling arc, in my opinion.
That's the long and short of it, although it's missing some minor details and one major one. We're basically WELL past the point any of this will come up in the show, but spoiling separately just in case.
When Jaime and Tyrion meet after Varys frees him, Jaime reveals that the whore thing was a lie. She was a commoner. She actually married him out of desire. Tywin forced all that on them, Jaime lied because the truth seemed even worse. This causes Tyrion then to lie to Jaime and say he killed Joffrey, and is also what prompts him to go kill Tywin (and then also kill Shae when he sees her in Tywin's bed). In the confrontation, he asks where Tysha went. Tywin responds "wherever whores go." So he doesn't just burn the ground in Westeros, he salts the earth, and his rock-bottom drunken bender is all about where whores go. In addition to that, on the jaunt across Essos, he meets up with the one of the dwarves from Joffrey's wedding (who's female, actually - there were only two, a male and a female). The male was killed and his head sent to Cersei because they thought they might get the gold, and the female basically drills into him how, despite being a dwarf, he's got no idea how good he's had it not being a commoner dwarf. So there's that bit of humility too.
And the bigger deviation:
Continuing deviation
I'm not sure why Arya needed more time to get this storyline across. What purpose was there in stretching this out even more? Just to make absolutely sure the audience hates the Faceless girl?
Their confrontation could have happened at the end of the last episode. When I think about it, I'm almost certain that was the original intent. Arya is in pretty much the same shape in both confrontations - bleeding from her belly, fleeing her assassin. Maybe they had to bump it for time?
I am also frustrated with Jaime. Watching all of his character development get flushed down the drain this season has been hard.
Other than that, okay I guess. Like most, I liked the Clegane stuff.
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Big Book Stuff
It was weird that 5 books in we get this whole "There's another Targaryen!" reveal, but it doesn't feel like an asspull because it just makes so much sense. Who's going to try to build an empire on the shoulders of Viserys Targaryen? And why did they so totally ignore Dany afterwards, and were so willing to leave the two siblings out of the schemers clutches? That their real purpose was only to level shit enough to make it easy for their real puppet to take the crown makes a lot of sense. Plus he fits right in thematically with characters like Gendry and Jon. In all three cases who their parents actually are matters much less than who people believe their parents are. Aegon might be real or he might be just some random kid they picked up who looked kinda Targaryen-y, but it really doesn't matter a bit.
*TV!Shae ends up in such a weird place, since they understandably wanted the audience to understand why she would be so important to Smart Guy Tyrion, but needing to still end up in the same place as the books gave her some really weird as fuck characterization
But this is for the show, so it's a miracle they didn't just think her name is Khaleesi like my sister-in-law.
Book prophecy stuff
Dance with dragons stuff
"Beware Varys's Dragon."
he was a mummer in essos before realising you can use kids to spy on people.
edit:
yeah i realise i left out the snipping and screaming and other horribly bits but fact is varys used to be a mummer!
That whole quote is weird it implies that
For example, I'm a big believer in Southron Ambitions, but I don't expect it to come up again.