USA Presidential Election 2016: Vice Vice Baby

Sterica

The most eagle-lovin' country is having an election for our leader! This only happens once every four years, so you gotta enjoy it while it lasts! Let's have a good time and talk about all the hilarious ups and downs of this election season. Warning: sometimes it may be less hilarious, and more soul-crushing!

Things to Consider Before Posting

• Resist the urge to dogpile unpopular sentiments. If it's really inflammatory then report it.
• Just because somebody is/isn't voting doesn't mean they are personally responsible for the downfall of democracy.
• This is SE++ so don't get hung up on derails, especially since this is the slow part of the election cycle.

Previously in the POTUS Thread...

1. Bad Hair Day
2. Over the Hegemony
3. Screams from My Father

In the Blue Corner...


"The Unindictable" Hillary Clinton
68 Years Old
Former Secretary of State and Senator

Strengths: She's not Trump.

Weaknesses: She's still pretty awful regardless.


Tim "Notorius D.N.C." Kaine
58 Years Old
Senator, Former Governor of Virginia and DNC Chair

Strengths: May appeal to center-right voters turned off by Trump.
Weaknesses: If you thought Clinton leaned right...heh.

In the Red Corner...


Donald "88" Trump
70 Years Old
he's allowed to run

Strengths: This country still has plenty of white people.

Weaknesses: But not enough white people.


Mike "Six" Pence
57 Years Old
Governor of Indiana

Strengths: Provides a more serious candidate to the ticket, calming GOP fears.

Weaknesses: Social regressive that is unlikely to endear himself with moderates.

FAQ

When are the conventions?

Republican: July 18th-21st
Democratic: July 25th-28th

Expect running mates to be announced or leaked a week or two prior.

Isn't Clinton/Trump in legal trouble?

Clinton seems to have (finally) shaken off her legal troubles with the FBI regarding her private email server. They have recommended no charges against Clinton, just writing off the whole escapade as her being "extremely careless" but possessing no wrongful intentions. It definitely gives Republicans a bit of ammunition against her in the election, however by the time people start paying attention to either campaign in September/October, most will have long stopped caring about the emails. Combined with Republicans wasting tons of taxpayer dollars hounding her on Benghazi, it seems like these criticisms will be easy for the Clinton camp to brush away as desperate attacks.

Trump is facing lawsuits for his crooked, fake school. I believe these are civil suits, and it's super unlikely this will have a major impact on the election besides being fodder for attack ads.

Who are our tragic third-party candidates?

Jill Stein is running on the Green Party ticket, and Gary Johnson (with running mate Bill Weld) is the Libertarian candidate. There's other perennial candidates, such as Vermin Supreme, but I'd be all day rattling off those.

What's a battleground?

A state that is polling more or less in the middle is considered a battleground. Because solidly Republican or Democratic states would require too much time and money to make even a dent in polls, candidates focus on the handful of states that are feasible to turn. Now, this doesn't mean that voting in a "stronghold" state is pointless. After all, many battleground states were at one point or another considered reliable votes for one party or the other, and people do pay attention to shifts in polls even if the overall outcome hasn't quite changed yet.

When are the debates?

September 26, 2016
October 4, 2016 (VP)
October 9, 2016
October 19, 2016

When is Election Day?

November 8th, 2016

How long do I have to register to vote?

It varies by state

I want to vote from a safe distance. What are my options for citizens abroad?

This should help you out.

Note that this should also be useful for people who are still in the States but will be in another state/city/etc from wherever they're registered come election day.

Sterica

Black lives matter, ya'll.

Librarian's ghost

In small world territory, Philando Castile went to high school with the wife of one of my cousins.

Crazy.

Sterica

Obama is prematurely ending his European trip to visit Dallas next week.

I feel this man's soul has been utterly broken by now.

Matev

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

Obama is prematurely ending his European trip to visit Dallas next week.

I feel this man's soul has been utterly broken by now.

Man, I know it's the right thing to do and all, but some deep down part of me gets apprehensive about a presidential trip to Dallas in the wake of growing violence in the country.

MrMonroe

I don't know that a US President has been outside in an urban area without a temporary awning since that last happened.

Sterica

Yeah security protocols for the President have changed just a little since then.

Aistan

Donald "88" Trump, huh?

It's depressing that the person this nickname is being applied to is the presumptive nominee of a political party running for President of the United States.

Zoel

Did Gerald Ford have temporary awnings during his two attempts?

Label

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

Obama is prematurely ending his European trip to visit Dallas next week.

I feel this man's soul has been utterly broken by now.

I am, i guess, glad to hear this. I have a faint hope that he will be able to say something useful, and that maybe some of the extremists out there will be able to hear it.

I am also really sad that he has to do this.

Romanian My Escutcheon

RE: Legal troubles, don't forget that Trump allegedly offered Carson a position in his administration if he dropped out, which is illegal. And he absolutely violated campaign finance law by soliciting foreign nationals to donate to his campaign. Not that the FBI or FEC seem interested in making any kind of comment on those ACTUAL REAL CRIMES.

Javen

I think a lot of Obama's post-political life is going to be spent as a racial advocate.

As a black man with kids, I have to imagine his kids not having round the clock secret service protection has kept him up MANY nights.

Sterica

Romanian My Escutcheon wrote: »

RE: Legal troubles, don't forget that Trump allegedly offered Carson a position in his administration if he dropped out, which is illegal. And he absolutely violated campaign finance law by soliciting foreign nationals to donate to his campaign. Not that the FBI or FEC seem interested in making any kind of comment on those ACTUAL REAL CRIMES.

I haven't heard about the foreign donations thing, but allegedly offering Carson a VP spot sounds like it doesn't have anything to back it up.

Also Clinton's server WAS a legitimate issue. It's just that her predecessors all did it to some degree and she followed suit.

valhalla130

I take issue with the OP. I don't think Clinton is "still pretty awful regardless." But the OP sets up the discussion to fail in that way from the very beginning.

Javen

Yeah but it's funny

Sterica

I'm sorry you take issue with my incredibly deep and serious political analysis.

valhalla130

No, it's not. Just because Republicans have tried their damnedest to tear her and her husband down for thirty years, and all that negativity has infected the public gestalt, doesn't make it true. It just means people believe lies when they hear them. And any thing she had done, which could be perceived in a negative light, has been. She's not perfect, but who is?

valhalla130

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

I'm sorry you take issue with my incredibly deep and serious political analysis.

I know it's not meant aeriously, but still... I've been listening to one side of the public discourse blatantly lie about her since the 90s. And to hear liberals echoing those same lies in the 2008 and the 2016 elections bugs the stew out of me.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

Romanian My Escutcheon wrote: »

RE: Legal troubles, don't forget that Trump allegedly offered Carson a position in his administration if he dropped out, which is illegal. And he absolutely violated campaign finance law by soliciting foreign nationals to donate to his campaign. Not that the FBI or FEC seem interested in making any kind of comment on those ACTUAL REAL CRIMES.

I haven't heard about the foreign donations thing, but allegedly offering Carson a VP spot sounds like it doesn't have anything to back it up.

Also Clinton's server WAS a legitimate issue. It's just that her predecessors all did it to some degree and she followed suit.

Here you go.

And I don't know how much clearer it can be made that Hillary's e-mails were a nothing issue that the GOP blew way out of proportion (and continue to blow out of proportion) but I guess that's not really a conversation we need to have again, especially since Hillary is "still pretty awful regardless."

Rorshach Kringle

valhalla130 wrote: »

No, it's not. Just because Republicans have tried their damnedest to tear her and her husband down for thirty years, and all that negativity has infected the public gestalt, doesn't make it true. It just means people believe lies when they hear them. And any thing she had done, which could be perceived in a negative light, has been. She's not perfect, but who is?

curt hennig

Romanian My Escutcheon

Rorshach Kringle wrote: »

valhalla130 wrote: »

No, it's not. Just because Republicans have tried their damnedest to tear her and her husband down for thirty years, and all that negativity has infected the public gestalt, doesn't make it true. It just means people believe lies when they hear them. And any thing she had done, which could be perceived in a negative light, has been. She's not perfect, but who is?

curt hennig

Googling this dude right now.

Post-Google Edit: Yeah, that tracks. Carry on.

Sterica

valhalla130 wrote: »

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

I'm sorry you take issue with my incredibly deep and serious political analysis.

I know it's not meant aeriously, but still... I've been listening to one side of the public discourse blatantly lie about her since the 90s. And to hear liberals echoing those same lies in the 2008 and the 2016 elections bugs the stew out of me.

Literally none of the criticisms aimed at her from the left are any of the Ancient Scandals of Olde that the Republicans doggedly attack her with. Like, I really don't know where you are even getting this since the majority of the problems liberals have with her are things Republicans have gleefully supported for years. We're talking about hawkish foreign policy, cushy pro-capitalist agendas, and of course her dealing with crime in low-income black communities (which, in past threads, I have noted as having mixed opinions on).

Nobody worth a damn is talking about Vince Foster or whatever.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

valhalla130 wrote: »

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

I'm sorry you take issue with my incredibly deep and serious political analysis.

I know it's not meant aeriously, but still... I've been listening to one side of the public discourse blatantly lie about her since the 90s. And to hear liberals echoing those same lies in the 2008 and the 2016 elections bugs the stew out of me.

Literally none of the criticisms aimed at her from the left are any of the Ancient Scandals of Olde that the Republicans doggedly attack her with. Like, I really don't know where you are even getting this since the majority of the problems liberals have with her are things Republicans have gleefully supported for years. We're talking about hawkish foreign policy, cushy pro-capitalist agendas, and of course her dealing with crime in low-income black communities (which, in past threads, I have noted as having mixed opinions on).

Nobody worth a damn is talking about Vince Foster or whatever.

Yeah, Hillary is far from the ideal candidate for progressives, and there are plenty of criticisms to levy against her record as a public servant. That doesn't somehow make the fatigue about the GOP blatantly lying about her to one degree or another during her entire political career any less valid, and that's doesn't somehow magically transform the conspiracy bait the Republicans keep trotting out to damage her campaign into anything other than complete bullshit.

PantsB

Hillary had a more liberal Senate record than Obama, tied with Bernie among people calling themselves very liberal in the primary and until recently was maligned for being left wing. If Obama is problematic for progressives sure Hillary is too butired that's a very aggressive definition of progressive. She's a liberal Democrat and she'd be one of the two (hard to say between her and Barack) most liberal Presidents ever and in relative terms at least since since JFK if not FDR

Sterica

Romanian My Escutcheon wrote: »

Yeah, Hillary is far from the ideal candidate for progressives, and there are plenty of criticisms to levy against her record as a public servant. That doesn't somehow make the fatigue about the GOP blatantly lying about her to one degree or another during her entire political career any less valid, and that's doesn't somehow magically transform the conspiracy bait the Republicans keep trotting out to damage her campaign into anything other than complete bullshit.

Nobody here is doing this

valhalla130

I think it's mostly the "she's awful and can't be trusted" attitudes I keep seeing that I'm thinking of.

Jars

it sounds like people are setting off fireworks, but they also could be indiscriminately gunning down people. at this point I really don't know

Sterica

valhalla130 wrote: »

I think it's mostly the "she's awful and can't be trusted" attitudes I keep seeing that I'm thinking of.

She is your standard issue politician, meaning she is going to mostly maintain the status quo. Which, you know, ain't working out too well for us. This is not to say she won't do any good in the White House, shit I'm voting for her, but she's also far from my first choice. We're extremely lucky she's running against Trump who, you know, I called a Nazi in the OP so I think Clinton got off light.

gtrmp

PantsB wrote: »

Hillary had a more liberal Senate record than Obama, tied with Bernie among people calling themselves very liberal in the primary and until recently was maligned for being left wing. If Obama is problematic for progressives sure Hillary is too butired that's a very aggressive definition of progressive. She's a liberal Democrat and she'd be one of the two (hard to say between her and Barack) most liberal Presidents ever and in relative terms at least since since JFK if not FDR

Who, other than hardline Republicans, has ever maligned Clinton for being left-wing?

Centipede Damascus

gtrmp wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Hillary had a more liberal Senate record than Obama, tied with Bernie among people calling themselves very liberal in the primary and until recently was maligned for being left wing. If Obama is problematic for progressives sure Hillary is too butired that's a very aggressive definition of progressive. She's a liberal Democrat and she'd be one of the two (hard to say between her and Barack) most liberal Presidents ever and in relative terms at least since since JFK if not FDR

Who, other than hardline Republicans, has ever maligned Clinton for being left-wing?

I think it's more that I've seen many left-wing people malign her for being too conservative.

Sterica

Obamacare is based off Romney's healthcare plan in Massachusetts, and Republicans still act like it was handed from on high by Marx's Socialist Spirit. Their complaints are super frivolous and only serve to keep pushing things ever rightward.

Brainleech

I feel it was also poorly handled as in this State as there is a chunk that use Medicare or Tricare but with the cost and really questionable plans we were given for those not on any plan it's not a shock many choose to pass or scramble for medicare

PantsB

gtrmp wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Hillary had a more liberal Senate record than Obama, tied with Bernie among people calling themselves very liberal in the primary and until recently was maligned for being left wing. If Obama is problematic for progressives sure Hillary is too butired that's a very aggressive definition of progressive. She's a liberal Democrat and she'd be one of the two (hard to say between her and Barack) most liberal Presidents ever and in relative terms at least since since JFK if not FDR

Who, other than hardline Republicans, has ever maligned Clinton for being left-wing?

She was the liberal meddling woman to the media during the Clinton Administration and was portrayed as a far left liberal as a Senator. Hillary being non liberal is a weird bit of revisionism this cycle. Even her platform pre Bernie was left of Obama this time

Zibblsnrt

Bobkins Flymo wrote: »

Obamacare is based off Romney's healthcare plan in Massachusetts, and Republicans still act like it was handed from on high by Marx's Socialist Spirit. Their complaints are super frivolous and only serve to keep pushing things ever rightward.

Has Congress hit triple digits on their number of attempts to repeal the ACA yet?

Centipede Damascus

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/751616759170564096

Zoel

so whats up with this civil suit about donald trump and jeffrey epstein

It seems like it should be bigger news and I've been wondering about it for a while but people don't really seem to take it seriously

did I miss something on that

AngelHedgie

WaPo has a good profile on Perez:

Just before the United flight took off, the pilot needed to balance the jet’s weight and asked for volunteers to move to the back. So Labor Secretary Thomas Perez stopped writing his speech, packed up his papers and moved to the cramped last row.

As he walked the length of the plane, no other passenger recognized the Cabinet member, who has quietly gained stature in the Obama administration and is widely expected to hold a top job in a Hillary Clinton administration; his name is even being raised as a possible candidate for vice president.

Perez, the Spanish-speaking son of Dominican immigrants, is the least-known name on a list of vice-presidential contenders that includes Sens. Timothy M. Kaine (D-Va.), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Cory Booker (D-N.J.).

But he is increasingly showing up on television and in swing states to stump for Clinton.

“Donald Trump is a fraud,” Perez said Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “Listening to him talk about how he is going to put America first again — he’s spent his entire career putting his profits first.”

Perez hammered Trump, calling him a “train wreck” and “outsourcer in chief,” and contrasted the Republican candidate, whom he described as “volatile,” with Clinton: “What I have seen working with Secretary Clinton is she is a steady hand.”

One of the reasons Perez is not widely recognized is that the highest elected office he has held was in Maryland as president of the Montgomery County Council — and that was a decade ago. He has long worked in government, including as a federal prosecutor, as counsel to Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, for the state of Maryland and as a leading civil rights attorney.

“He is not a showboater, not flash, an everyday guy,” said Michael Steele, the former head of the Republican National Committee. Steele, who was lieutenant governor of Maryland when Perez was on the council, said Perez could help smooth Clinton’s “strained relationship” with many Republicans.

“He is not an I-am-right, you-are-wrong guy,” Steele said.

Captain Marcus

Centipede Damascus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/751616759170564096

That's a good article. Real heartwarming stuff!

Gundi

I mean HC's domestic policy seems like almost an academic issue becausse haha if the GOP, who controls congress and really also wants a firm grip on the courts, is ever, ever going to cooperate with her on anything. She could probably do a flip to right wing and get Republicans to be marxist just to not associate with her. I actually don't have any problems with hers though.

Foreign policy, yeah sure I have big issues with it. But then again I have big issues with Obama's foreign policy and I'd probably still vote him in for a third term if I had the option. (Because foreign policy stances of the overwhelming majority politicians, and also the american public, are just generally really bad in a lot of ways. And good in some others. But specifically bad in a few really awful ways.)

And yeah Hillary's generally been pretty liberal but also in the past ten, twenty years the democratic electorate (if not always democratic politicians) have swung pretty hard "left". (I'm talking about American left not actual normal political left.) So, you know, it's not surprising she doesn't come off as super liberal. (Although people who call her a centrist Democrat really overestimate how far left the general Democratic Party actually is.)

Anyways, can we all just agree that Texas' lieutenant governor is a burning dumpster full of human feces made manifest in human form? Like, that guy makes me even more angry than Trump because it seems like he puts extra thought into being a fucking insane sociopath.

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

the dispute between hilary and the left isn't really one over policy substance; yes the iraq war (and generally she is too 'hawkish' imo), yes she came late to gay marriage, but these sins have been forgiven many other politicians. Like people said her voting record mostly is fine, and everyone forgets today that she was on the universal healthcare train before really anybody.

the dispute is mostly over tone; she takes very much a small-c conservative approach to advocacy which is okay as far as it goes, but for a lot of the years she's been active in public life democrats have been losing the overall argument while winning elections on the margins. You'd like the party's standard bearer to be more of a forceful advocate, especially since it's not clear that being fully in favor of such as public option or free college tuition would be harmful to her

(and yes, I know she's lately come to endorse both of those positions)

Doobh

the american left squeaks away with a lot of awful shit because the right is so much fucking worse

seen plenty of liberals/progressives be super shitty about issues affecting underprivileged groups
but, hey, they aren't threatening to kill me the direct way