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USA Presidential Election 2016: Vice Vice Baby
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I would never have thought we would have elected Dubya to a second term in '04, either. I won't put anything past the American electorate after that.
I saw a number elsewhere that the polling error drops pretty dramatically once you get into mid-August or so.
So what, we should panic every time a new poll is run? Literally the only poll that matters is the one where we cast our ballots. Numbers in July are irrelevant, so if people are going to keep reacting to updates, people are going to keep reminding them to fucking chill.
No one is saying it's fine. They're saying "cool your jets, keep campaigning, if you're so inclined, make sure you vote in November, and remember that it's not over until it's over." I'm so tired of the doom and gloom routine. There's enough actively shitty things happening right now to spend time freaking out about potential shitty things that haven't happened yet and could very possibly never happen.
If you thought that you weren't paying close enough attention. W was an incumbent, the economy was recovering (albeit slowly), the Iraq war had yet to reach quagmire status, and his opponent was an uninspiring longtime Senator that also voted for the war.
Bush was bad but by 2004 shit really hasn't hit the fan yet.
Ask them how ok they are with letting Trump nominate enough Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v Wade for multiple generations of women.
IIRC, Bush was ahead of Kerry throughout most of the election season.
Steam: pazython
They'd rather go full #NeverHillary to avoid having to compromise their "purity" than vote for her to protect what's important
It's more about identity than reality for those types
It doesn't matter because one time Hillary something something emails
so there's that
I stayed home that election, but I know I used to be fooled by the whole "republicans are stronger on national security" thing. So the thought was "well we're in this shit now so might as well have someone who will finish it."
Whooooooops.
yeah, and I get it
but there are some unanswered questions that a lot of people who are worried that trump might win have yet to respond to
like, "given that barack Obama beat two challengers with the exact same base that Trump has (except arguably even more narrow), and given that Hillary Clinton has shown that she appeals to the exact same coalition that he built, how do you expect Trump to overcome that?"
and, "given that the Republican election machine is in a shambles due to the revolt of its donor base and the fact that party leadership hates Trump, how do you expect his campaign to establish a ground game that can rival the infrastructure that the Democrats have built over the last eight years?"
I believe you're right and you can point out a lot of major events falling in Bush's favor e.g. the perceived Howard Dean meltdown, the 60 Minutes Dan Rather fiasco, Barack Obama upstaging Kerry at his own convention, etc.
I wish I had figured it out sooner. At least I actually did though.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a decently-sized group of Trump's base forgets to vote or fails to register to do so, due to a failure/lack of Trump's GOTV.
Steam: pazython
I hear ya, brother
I know that it's statistically unlikely and a lot of safety measures and contingencies would have to fail for it to happen, but the end result of all that is so horrifying that it pushes the fact that it's unlikely out of my head.
Unfortunately there's no electoral equivalent of "well I guess I just won't go skydiving." So instead I guess I'll just be slightly more anxious than usual until November.
I have absolutely no idea but then again what I was expecting before is that the despicable piece of shit would have stopped existing politically months and months ago
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
In response to question one, I'll note that Obama didn't face the level of opposition from his own party that clinton does.
as for number two, I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I don't believe trump needs a ground game. he curb stomped every other candidate while literally spouting conspiracy theories and changing positions occasionally 5 times in 60 seconds! No one gives a damn about trump because of policy, they either 1: hate clinton or 2: hate the world. These people are going to vote whether there are trump signs in yards or not.
Election day is literally the day I go to Italy for my honeymoon.
i very much hate this argument.
you can't discount folks on "ideological purity". for the most part, they're looking for a candidate that shares their values. political "reality" is also shaped by who we elect. if the goal is to effect change, one of the means to that goal is to elect people who will likely bring that change, or at least have the same goal in mind. you can't blame people for wanting that.
if the goals themselves are terrible, that's something else.
there's a lot Clinton has policy-wise that i detest. continuing Obama's drone war. few changes to how draconian immigration enforcement has been. an economic policy not focused enough on fighting poverty and income inequality. i was honestly over it and ready to vote for Clinton, in part to stop Trump, when the DNC e-mail fiasco occurred and then the Clinton campaign brings Debbie Wasserman-Schultz on board.
what.
that's like a metaphorical middle finger to folks who might have been on the fence, or even might have been a #NeverHillary-type. that just shows entirely poor judgment. a huge misunderstanding of the optics.
why the shit should i vote for Clinton now when her campaign can't even get this basic thing right? at least make an attempt to understand how upset people are?
i used to not understand why people wouldn't vote at all, but for the first time in my life i get it.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Also they will betray our allies and may be working with the KGB.
I get what you're saying - I voted for Bernie too, and I think Clinton is being shockingly bad at some stuff.
But for the first time in my lifetime, the stakes are way way too high.
I could have lived under Romney and been just fine. Or McCain/Palin honestly.
Trump is literally terrifying.
Shit was infuriating.
Keeping a self-serving ass with an axe to grind happy and quiet with a honorary position to keep her from screwing more up? Seems fine to me.
The drone thing, I'll give you that, but if trump wins you're gonna be way, way, WAY less satisfied than if Hillary does.
Vote for the realistic candidate that best fits your values and won't provide an opportunity to the one who least fits.
i agree with this, and yet, absolute fear should not drive how people vote. and way too many people out there feel some form of this same thing.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
You've already shown you haven't even bothered to look at her policy plans. There's a lot of truly good stuff there to vote for.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good here.
Uh, why not?
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
I saw the reverse of this on my facebook yesterday. "You may not like Trump, but imagine how awful Clinton's Supreme Court nominees will be!". It was kind of surreal.
you should want to vote for the person you are voting for
but I think people disregard a lot of positives in hilary's platform for a couple pet issues like drones
And this is why any concessions were a useless step by the way, because apparently being the most progressive platform of all time doesn't mean shit.
How exactly? And don't say DWS. She's been given a shiny "I participated!" medal and will be shoved into a locked room for the foreseeable future so she doesn't do a Cruz. Big deal.
It's fine to have this viewpoint, just as long as one accepts the consequences that come with it.
Not voting for Hillary helps a fascist reach the White House.
I hate having to make a statement like that, but it's true. It's patronizing and paternalistic to say it, but I feel that it is true.
It's fine to decide that Hillary isn't in line with one's views and that one shouldn't vote for her. But it's not okay to pretend that stance helps achieve liberal goals. It hurts the effort.
Yes same thing here
I just remember thinking that being "Not-Bush" was going to be enough. It was clear the direction in which the country was heading, at least imo.
Then he was elected, we hit bottom, and now we're here...