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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Also people are specifically targeting Blizzard for IP banning cheaters from Overwatch. Pretty much whenever there's a new Overwatch ban wave that goes out there's a DDOS the next day.

    nah the last banwave was August 1st


    people like the overwatch banwave reasoning because it's something that makes logical sense to them, as opposed to the cold uncaring entropy of the universe leading to random attacks

    I needed anime to post. on
    liEt3nH.png
  • Options
    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Options
    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Options
    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    I was trying to be nice. :)

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Options
    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    don't be nice, they made yogg

    liEt3nH.png
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Dota has had issues with ddos. Not usually the public servers, but targeting specific teams to handicap them, motivated by the gambling scene.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    You guys - I have 490 rogue wins. Soon. Soon. My next highest class has less than 200, though :/

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Since the Tempo Storm site seems to be down. Can somebody give me a link to that Meme Hunter deck you were talking about last page?

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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    Since the Tempo Storm site seems to be down. Can somebody give me a link to that Meme Hunter deck you were talking about last page?

    http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/abars-fun-interactive-barnes-yshaarj-hunter-guide-august-2016-season-29/

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    AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    that's exactly the deck i made too.

    but then i ran into 4 hunter mech warpers in a row and i cried little tears.

    still haven't been able to think of a three card combo that beats mech warper, mill and freeze.

    Flash heal, embrace the shadow, the 0 mana heal all for 4 takes care of all 3 for you, and can take on warlock discard as well, but you have to just heal yourself as he runs through his deck.

    this is awesome!

    wish i had a flashheal though.

    i'm just theorycrafting, but will it beat freeze? seems difficult.

    Same with Warlock you let him run through his deck. His secrets clogup in his hand so he cannot one turn kill you while you can outheal him.

    Alphagaia on
    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
    P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
    Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
    I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048

    See my profile here!
  • Options
    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    You guys - I have 490 rogue wins. Soon. Soon. My next highest class has less than 200, though :/

    Aww you're doing it now? You missed out on Oil Rogue's heyday.

    Oil Rogue is like Miracle, only awesome.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Cantido wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    You guys - I have 490 rogue wins. Soon. Soon. My next highest class has less than 200, though :/

    Aww you're doing it now? You missed out on Oil Rogue's heyday.

    Oil Rogue is like Miracle, only awesome.

    Wild still exists!

    Though I'm sure the Blade Flurry nerf hurts oil rogue a fair bit.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    are they stacking these Welcome Packs or something? Not even counting the random class legendary (Tirion... blah I hate Pally), my first pack had a golden epic, golden rare, regular epic, regular rare, and then the first card out of pack 2 is golden Nat Pagle.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    are they stacking these Welcome Packs or something? Not even counting the random class legendary (Tirion... blah I hate Pally), my first pack had a golden epic, golden rare, regular epic, regular rare, and then the first card out of pack 2 is golden Nat Pagle.

    If so, mine was even more exceptionally lousy. Got Jaraxxus and... not a whole heck of a lot else. Couple Epics.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

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    MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    5 wins in a row today (continuing on from the win I got last night for a current 6 in a row streak) and I'm rank 5.

    Earliest I've ever achieved it.
    not many (if any?) people have actually taken the time grinding to legend with it

    Well I'm rank 5 and 2 stars with 11 full days of the season to go...

    Challenge Accepted.

    If I achieve it this will be the first time I've ever hit legend.

    Current stats for those interested (all meme Hunter):
    55 wins and 21 losses (72.4% winrate). With combo: 29/2 (93.5% winrate). Without: 26/19 (57.8% winrate).

    PSN: Holy-Promethium
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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    5 wins in a row today (continuing on from the win I got last night for a current 6 in a row streak) and I'm rank 5.

    Earliest I've ever achieved it.
    not many (if any?) people have actually taken the time grinding to legend with it

    Well I'm rank 5 and 2 stars with 11 full days of the season to go...

    Challenge Accepted.

    If I achieve it this will be the first time I've ever hit legend.

    Current stats for those interested (all meme Hunter):
    55 wins and 21 losses (72.4% winrate). With combo: 29/2 (93.5% winrate). Without: 26/19 (57.8% winrate).

    I love how your combo winrate is so astronomically high. Comical even. It's pretty silly.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    side note: I'm playing a goofy little iOS game called Rodeo Stampede where you ride wild animals and jump around when they get mad at you; they have little variations on the different kinds of animals. There's a demonic giraffe with scales and little wings, named Giraxxus.

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    MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    You guys - I have 490 rogue wins. Soon. Soon. My next highest class has less than 200, though :/

    Aww you're doing it now? You missed out on Oil Rogue's heyday.

    Oil Rogue is like Miracle, only awesome.

    Oh I did a lot of oil. Just not 500 wins worth.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
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    Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    5 wins in a row today (continuing on from the win I got last night for a current 6 in a row streak) and I'm rank 5.

    Earliest I've ever achieved it.
    not many (if any?) people have actually taken the time grinding to legend with it

    Well I'm rank 5 and 2 stars with 11 full days of the season to go...

    Challenge Accepted.

    If I achieve it this will be the first time I've ever hit legend.

    Current stats for those interested (all meme Hunter):
    55 wins and 21 losses (72.4% winrate). With combo: 29/2 (93.5% winrate). Without: 26/19 (57.8% winrate).

    Are you not running into very many warriors? Because even when I pull the combo off against them they're just like "lol blood to ichor, execute, now I'm ahead again."

  • Options
    MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    Marty81 wrote: »
    5 wins in a row today (continuing on from the win I got last night for a current 6 in a row streak) and I'm rank 5.

    Earliest I've ever achieved it.
    not many (if any?) people have actually taken the time grinding to legend with it

    Well I'm rank 5 and 2 stars with 11 full days of the season to go...

    Challenge Accepted.

    If I achieve it this will be the first time I've ever hit legend.

    Current stats for those interested (all meme Hunter):
    55 wins and 21 losses (72.4% winrate). With combo: 29/2 (93.5% winrate). Without: 26/19 (57.8% winrate).

    Are you not running into very many warriors? Because even when I pull the combo off against them they're just like "lol blood to ichor, execute, now I'm ahead again."

    I am. Currently 9 and 4 against Warriors.

    So long as they don't taunt up or gain significant armour I'm generally ok. Even if Plan A goes to shit Plan B has enough burn to solve a lot of problems.

    PSN: Holy-Promethium
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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    It's not quite that simple, there are carrier requirements and concerns they have as well in order to optimize and deliver traffic.

    DDOS attacks can overwhelm even the most stalwart of on premise defenses, and multiple saturation points can occur. Attackers can alternate tactics and exploit different vulnerabilities in the system.

    A lot of people look at DDOS as a simple flood of data that overwhelms the circuit's ability to handle the traffic, but it can be much more complex than that. There can be automated processes that just attempt to establish a ton of connections that don't complete the TCP handshake, which can cause significant degradation.

    For Blizzard, their applications are complex - it's not just simple HTTP traffic - so they have to mitigate quickly AND error on the side of making sure clean traffic comes through. They don't have the ability to just drop all connections from certain IP space, as that has collateral damage against their user base.

  • Options
    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    are they stacking these Welcome Packs or something? Not even counting the random class legendary (Tirion... blah I hate Pally), my first pack had a golden epic, golden rare, regular epic, regular rare, and then the first card out of pack 2 is golden Nat Pagle.

    if they are, then they really hate me. nothing special for me.

  • Options
    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    It's not quite that simple, there are carrier requirements and concerns they have as well in order to optimize and deliver traffic.

    DDOS attacks can overwhelm even the most stalwart of on premise defenses, and multiple saturation points can occur. Attackers can alternate tactics and exploit different vulnerabilities in the system.

    A lot of people look at DDOS as a simple flood of data that overwhelms the circuit's ability to handle the traffic, but it can be much more complex than that. There can be automated processes that just attempt to establish a ton of connections that don't complete the TCP handshake, which can cause significant degradation.

    For Blizzard, their applications are complex - it's not just simple HTTP traffic - so they have to mitigate quickly AND error on the side of making sure clean traffic comes through. They don't have the ability to just drop all connections from certain IP space, as that has collateral damage against their user base.

    Additionally, because of the move to centralize all their games on Battle.net and use your Battle.net login for all the games you own from them, that creates a single point vulnerability for this kind of thing. If you can knock out the Battle.net authentication servers, you'll kick everyone off the service and out of any Blizzard games they're playing. No need to go after just the WoW servers or just the Hearthstone servers, etc.

  • Options
    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    It's not quite that simple, there are carrier requirements and concerns they have as well in order to optimize and deliver traffic.

    DDOS attacks can overwhelm even the most stalwart of on premise defenses, and multiple saturation points can occur. Attackers can alternate tactics and exploit different vulnerabilities in the system.

    A lot of people look at DDOS as a simple flood of data that overwhelms the circuit's ability to handle the traffic, but it can be much more complex than that. There can be automated processes that just attempt to establish a ton of connections that don't complete the TCP handshake, which can cause significant degradation.

    For Blizzard, their applications are complex - it's not just simple HTTP traffic - so they have to mitigate quickly AND error on the side of making sure clean traffic comes through. They don't have the ability to just drop all connections from certain IP space, as that has collateral damage against their user base.

    Additionally, because of the move to centralize all their games on Battle.net and use your Battle.net login for all the games you own from them, that creates a single point vulnerability for this kind of thing. If you can knock out the Battle.net authentication servers, you'll kick everyone off the service and out of any Blizzard games they're playing. No need to go after just the WoW servers or just the Hearthstone servers, etc.

    Battle.net authentication doesn't need super-fast ping, right? That should be able to be distributed a lot more, much more difficult to DDOS.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Options
    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    kime wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    It's not quite that simple, there are carrier requirements and concerns they have as well in order to optimize and deliver traffic.

    DDOS attacks can overwhelm even the most stalwart of on premise defenses, and multiple saturation points can occur. Attackers can alternate tactics and exploit different vulnerabilities in the system.

    A lot of people look at DDOS as a simple flood of data that overwhelms the circuit's ability to handle the traffic, but it can be much more complex than that. There can be automated processes that just attempt to establish a ton of connections that don't complete the TCP handshake, which can cause significant degradation.

    For Blizzard, their applications are complex - it's not just simple HTTP traffic - so they have to mitigate quickly AND error on the side of making sure clean traffic comes through. They don't have the ability to just drop all connections from certain IP space, as that has collateral damage against their user base.

    Additionally, because of the move to centralize all their games on Battle.net and use your Battle.net login for all the games you own from them, that creates a single point vulnerability for this kind of thing. If you can knock out the Battle.net authentication servers, you'll kick everyone off the service and out of any Blizzard games they're playing. No need to go after just the WoW servers or just the Hearthstone servers, etc.

    Battle.net authentication doesn't need super-fast ping, right? That should be able to be distributed a lot more, much more difficult to DDOS.

    I've done DDOS mitigation from the operational side, and I'm doing it now from the Sales side. When I was on the operation side of things, I would be routinely frustrated by the architecture of clients. Why did they centralize X thing, creating an easy vulnerability point?! That kind of stuff.

    Now that I'm on the other side my perspective has shifted quite a bit. There are a myriad of reasons why things are architected the way they are. Some are legacy, some financial, some are simply concessions that they make so it's easier for users to access their applications/services. The reality is that very few companies architect solutions from the perspective of an attacker - they architect them from the perspective of a normal user acting in good faith just trying to use their platform. Because, let's face it, normal users are going to be connecting to their service every moment of every day, while DDOS happens for an hour or so every other day, or once a week, or maybe never.

    Without going into the particulars that I cannot disclose, I would just say that nearly every company I've talked to (with a large-scale networking staff) is fairly savvy when it comes to what delivers the best value to their clients operationally. It usually isn't a matter of cost, but in some cases, its limitations of technology and how front end and back end systems talk to each other. Or, it can be a limitation of where scrubbing centers are located, or what counter-measures can be deployed, and how fast.

    I would say (and I realize this is a kind of an empty appeal to authority) that if you look at the incredible games that Blizz has, and how smoothly they run, that it should give you confidence they are trying everything they reasonably can to mitigate these attacks against their infrastructure.

    Roz on
  • Options
    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Okay, but Roz, hear me out here:
    I've made a lot of internet posts, and it seems like it shouldn't be that hard.

  • Options
    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB1A_tSsDiM

    I HATE THIS CARD SO MUCH

    I HATE IT

  • Options
    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Okay, but Roz, hear me out here:
    I've made a lot of internet posts, and it seems like it shouldn't be that hard.

    link to expertsvideo.youtube

  • Options
    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    It's not quite that simple, there are carrier requirements and concerns they have as well in order to optimize and deliver traffic.

    DDOS attacks can overwhelm even the most stalwart of on premise defenses, and multiple saturation points can occur. Attackers can alternate tactics and exploit different vulnerabilities in the system.

    A lot of people look at DDOS as a simple flood of data that overwhelms the circuit's ability to handle the traffic, but it can be much more complex than that. There can be automated processes that just attempt to establish a ton of connections that don't complete the TCP handshake, which can cause significant degradation.

    For Blizzard, their applications are complex - it's not just simple HTTP traffic - so they have to mitigate quickly AND error on the side of making sure clean traffic comes through. They don't have the ability to just drop all connections from certain IP space, as that has collateral damage against their user base.

    Additionally, because of the move to centralize all their games on Battle.net and use your Battle.net login for all the games you own from them, that creates a single point vulnerability for this kind of thing. If you can knock out the Battle.net authentication servers, you'll kick everyone off the service and out of any Blizzard games they're playing. No need to go after just the WoW servers or just the Hearthstone servers, etc.

    Battle.net authentication doesn't need super-fast ping, right? That should be able to be distributed a lot more, much more difficult to DDOS.

    I've done DDOS mitigation from the operational side, and I'm doing it now from the Sales side. When I was on the operation side of things, I would be routinely frustrated by the architecture of clients. Why did they centralize X thing, creating an easy vulnerability point?! That kind of stuff.

    Now that I'm on the other side my perspective has shifted quite a bit. There are a myriad of reasons why things are architected the way they are. Some are legacy, some financial, some are simply concessions that they make so it's easier for users to access their applications/services. The reality is that very few companies architect solutions from the perspective of an attacker - they architect them from the perspective of a normal user acting in good faith just trying to use their platform. Because, let's face it, normal users are going to be connecting to their service every moment of every day, while DDOS happens for an hour or so every other day, or once a week, or maybe never.

    Without going into the particulars that I cannot disclose, I would just say that nearly every company I've talked to (with a large-scale networking staff) is fairly savvy when it comes to what delivers the best value to their clients operationally. It usually isn't a matter of cost, but in some cases, its limitations of technology and how front end and back end systems talk to each other. Or, it can be a limitation of where scrubbing centers are located, or what counter-measures can be deployed, and how fast.

    I would say (and I realize this is a kind of an empty appeal to authority) that if you look at the incredible games that Blizz has, and how smoothly they run, that it should give you confidence they are trying everything they reasonably can to mitigate these attacks against their infrastructure.

    I mean, I'm not yelling at Blizzard, they make fantastic games and are pretty technically savvy too. One of my favorite companies!

    But if you are going to tell me that there aren't massive gaps in their technical practices and such, gonna have to disagree. Entirely possible that it's due to legacy, momentum, monies, etc. and not a lack of developer skill, not trying to imply that! I don't know the specifics of how their servers are set up. But there are things that Blizzard pretty demonstrably does "worse" in development than other companies, so just "it's hard and Blizzard is definitely doing everything possible" isn't quite good enough for me.

    All I'm doing is just speculating and joking about it on a message board. Like I said, I like their games, I'm not going to stop buying, the attacks don't impact my playtime very much. It's just fun to talk about :).

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Options
    LucedesLucedes might be real Registered User regular
    i don't play decks without yogg-saron, except to complete quests / push for rank at the end of the season.

    yogg is my favorite card and the reason i keep playing, even through bullshit OP shaman!

  • Options
    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Really, really starting to like Identity Crisis Rogue. My turns against a Rogue:

    Turn 8: Coin, Alvernia
    Turn 9: Shitton of minions
    Turn 10: Savage Roar

    And, scene.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Options
    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Welcome to the Penny Arcade Forum Variable Tournament!

    Our (un)official Penny Arcade Forum will focus on adding some variety to the normally stagnant HS tournament scene. But not only that, there will be prizes!*

    Each round of the tournament will feature a different rule set in order to spice up the variety and fun! Each round's restrictions will be stated below except for the final which will be revealed before the game begins to truly test our finalist's deck-building skills!

    GENERAL INFO
    • Tournament will take place on Saturday, the 24th at 11:00 am (PST)
    • This will be a 3-round tournament featuring 8 players
    • Decks must be built and submitted before the tournament to me
    • Each round is win with 3 different decks to proceed
    • There are a lot of games so players are encouraged not to play too slowly
    • Players must have Paypal accounts to claim 2nd/3rd place prizes
    • Screenshots are encouraged as well as spectating
    • You might be streamed if someone is up for it
    • Top 4 players will need to communicate so please be chat ready
    • Sign up by saying so with an "@" MNC Dover
    • First 8 people are in, all others are alternates
    • If you want to stream or commentate, let me know


    ROUNDS
    1st round: Ladies Night! Make 3 decks from different classes containing only cards that feature females. Win with all 3 decks to move on!

    If you're unsure if a character featured is female, do a quick Google search (example: Alexstraza is female). Mechs, giants, and beasts are all considered neutral and therefore unplayable. The lone exception is Misha who is confirmed female, allowing both Animal Companion and Call of the Wild playable. This is Wild format and any debatable cards will be settled by me. Please note: Read the alt text for hints...especially Master of Disguise.

    2nd round: Arena Constructed! Go to Hearthhead Arena and choose one of the 3 classes offered. Draft a deck as usual. After you finish, you'll make two extra decks out of the remaining cards you didn't select. Win with all 3 decks to move on!

    This obviously can't be perfect given the restrictions of Constructed rules (2 cards max per type), so try and draft accordingly. Like, if you're offered a 3rd Fireball, don't select it for your first deck. In the rare case you're offered 7 Fireballs, well one will become a Forgotten Torch or something equivalent. Your first deck will be set in stone, but your follow-up decks can have lots of synergy! Draft smart and make sure not to select all the good cards!

    If you're given card choices that you don't have, let me know and we'll find an equivalent card. Also, the site is a little buggy, so don't draft too fast. Sometimes cards don't have images, but are still selectable. If this occurs, get a screenshot and choose a card. The other cards will show up in the final tally and I'll allow for substitutions with proper documentation. I highly suggest doing a practice round to get used to the site before going all-in.

    Finally, make sure and screenshot your final card choices in case you forget a card or whatever. Make sure you complete this well ahead of time so it won't slow the tournament down. This will be on an honor system, so no rerolling classes or reloading card choices please. All questions, card alternates, and so on will be settled by me.

    FINALS Surprise round! Our two finalists won't know the rules until they begin play. Each will have 10-minutes to create a deck based on mystery restrictions. Should be silly fun! 3rd/4th place will also be playing in this hidden format.


    PRIZES
    • First Place! A $20 Blizzard gift card generously provided by our own @Roz! Buy 15 card packs of your choice! Perhaps get those two alt art heroes! Buy an Adventure! It's your credit, do with it as you please!
    • Second Place! I'll buy you an alt art Hero! Choose between Magni, Alleria, or Medivh! Already have 'em all? Well, put that $10 towards cards or whatever.
    • Third Place! I'll buy your Welcome Bundle! That's right, 10 free packs + a guaranteed class legend! A $5 value on me!
    • Extra Prize! 7 free packs of cards for the player with the most unique, clever, or funny deck build! A $10 value provided by @envoy1!

    Winners will be expected to take pictures of their rewards and post 'em on the forums!

    *Prize notes: First prize will be a $20 gift card code that I will PM to you. In order to claim your 2nd or 3rd place prize, you MUST have a Paypal account and be willing to share your email address via PM with me. Please keep this in mind if you enter the tournament. If you win, you can always forfeit your prize to someone else with a Paypal account if you choose. While you are receiving money, I do fully expect you to spend it on your actual reward so please post screenshots of your winnings!

    PLAYERS:
    Kime
    Yilias
    KoopahTroopah
    MMMig

    OK! 4 MORE BRAVE SOULS REQUIRED!

    If I can't get more players, I'll dump the Arena part. But I don't want to so sign up! PRIZES PEOPLE!

    Edit: For the new Extra prize, the winner will be decided by forum votes after the tournament is over.

    MNC Dover on
    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
    Steam ID
    Twitch Page
  • Options
    LucedesLucedes might be real Registered User regular
    i would join your tournament

    but that's literally when my M:tG prerelease is happening.

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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    I'd be surprised that there isn't a dedicated server per game and bnet on a separate server to just handle the bnet side of authentication and inter-game communication.

    Neither of those need a latency of a competitive game.


    Running your entire gamit of assets on a single point of failure infrastructure screams of vulnerability.

    And thus, the many successful DDOS attacks :P

    It's not quite that simple, there are carrier requirements and concerns they have as well in order to optimize and deliver traffic.

    DDOS attacks can overwhelm even the most stalwart of on premise defenses, and multiple saturation points can occur. Attackers can alternate tactics and exploit different vulnerabilities in the system.

    A lot of people look at DDOS as a simple flood of data that overwhelms the circuit's ability to handle the traffic, but it can be much more complex than that. There can be automated processes that just attempt to establish a ton of connections that don't complete the TCP handshake, which can cause significant degradation.

    For Blizzard, their applications are complex - it's not just simple HTTP traffic - so they have to mitigate quickly AND error on the side of making sure clean traffic comes through. They don't have the ability to just drop all connections from certain IP space, as that has collateral damage against their user base.

    Additionally, because of the move to centralize all their games on Battle.net and use your Battle.net login for all the games you own from them, that creates a single point vulnerability for this kind of thing. If you can knock out the Battle.net authentication servers, you'll kick everyone off the service and out of any Blizzard games they're playing. No need to go after just the WoW servers or just the Hearthstone servers, etc.

    Battle.net authentication doesn't need super-fast ping, right? That should be able to be distributed a lot more, much more difficult to DDOS.

    I've done DDOS mitigation from the operational side, and I'm doing it now from the Sales side. When I was on the operation side of things, I would be routinely frustrated by the architecture of clients. Why did they centralize X thing, creating an easy vulnerability point?! That kind of stuff.

    Now that I'm on the other side my perspective has shifted quite a bit. There are a myriad of reasons why things are architected the way they are. Some are legacy, some financial, some are simply concessions that they make so it's easier for users to access their applications/services. The reality is that very few companies architect solutions from the perspective of an attacker - they architect them from the perspective of a normal user acting in good faith just trying to use their platform. Because, let's face it, normal users are going to be connecting to their service every moment of every day, while DDOS happens for an hour or so every other day, or once a week, or maybe never.

    Without going into the particulars that I cannot disclose, I would just say that nearly every company I've talked to (with a large-scale networking staff) is fairly savvy when it comes to what delivers the best value to their clients operationally. It usually isn't a matter of cost, but in some cases, its limitations of technology and how front end and back end systems talk to each other. Or, it can be a limitation of where scrubbing centers are located, or what counter-measures can be deployed, and how fast.

    I would say (and I realize this is a kind of an empty appeal to authority) that if you look at the incredible games that Blizz has, and how smoothly they run, that it should give you confidence they are trying everything they reasonably can to mitigate these attacks against their infrastructure.

    I mean, I'm not yelling at Blizzard, they make fantastic games and are pretty technically savvy too. One of my favorite companies!

    But if you are going to tell me that there aren't massive gaps in their technical practices and such, gonna have to disagree. Entirely possible that it's due to legacy, momentum, monies, etc. and not a lack of developer skill, not trying to imply that! I don't know the specifics of how their servers are set up. But there are things that Blizzard pretty demonstrably does "worse" in development than other companies, so just "it's hard and Blizzard is definitely doing everything possible" isn't quite good enough for me.

    All I'm doing is just speculating and joking about it on a message board. Like I said, I like their games, I'm not going to stop buying, the attacks don't impact my playtime very much. It's just fun to talk about :).

    I wasn't trying to call you out, I apologize if I came off that way. I'm merely trying to be informative with these posts. My expertise is in this field, and I'm trying to lend whatever insight I can. In my previous job I was right there with you, but now, I would say that most companies (not all) who get attacked in this way really do go out and do what they can to mitigate. They'll approach different vendors, do operational comparisons, etc. For some companies money is a big issue - DDOS services are not cheap - but almost every multimedia company I've approached has had much bigger issues from an architecture and technology standpoint rather than a financial one. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe Blizzard is being cheap here, just that there are a lot of factors that make instant mitigation and infrastructure changes difficult.

    I am genuinely interested, from a Networking/Infrastructure standpoint, what you feel Blizzard is doing that is worse than their counterparts in this field? Are there novel strategies that other service providers are using that you don't think they are taking advantage of?

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Lucedes wrote: »
    i would join your tournament

    but that's literally when my M:tG prerelease is happening.

    Who plays physical cards games theses days? They have so little Yogg and RNG.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I don't know much about how other game companies have their infrastructure set up, unfortunately. I don't even play many games online besides Blizzard's, let alone know the backend setup :P.

    I don't really know anything about Blizzard's set up either, it's all fun speculation. But there are online services that get a bunch more concurrent users than Blizzard, and services that are much more critical than "vidja games," that manage to not be affected much by DDOS attacks rarely ever, really. It's always a back and forth war. At the very least, it does seem like the Battle.net authentication, which is the main focus of most of the DDOS attacks (I think?) can be separated and made a whole bunch more robust, since you don't really need to worry about very fast latency on those, unlike Overwatch or whatnot.

    Dunno! This actually isn't my specialty, I've only ever had to worry about that from a decently high level. Blizzard is very well doing everything I would think of. But I don't think they're doing everything the industry has thought of, based just on my knowledge of some other systems and the scale they operate at without these problems.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    https://clips.twitch.tv/savjz/GlamorousStingrayMrDestructoid
    Savjz does some stupid things sometimes.

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    lul, dog playing Dragon Druid (not-maly focused). Plays out Nefarian--"The hunter becomes the hunted!" Gets Call of the Wild for lethal next turn.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    What 2 mana card would make the best hero power? Frostbolt? Freezing Trap?

    A card that changed the Hunter hero power to a random trap would actually be pretty cool...

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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