Looking to buy a condo

OrcaOrca Registered User regular
edited September 2016 in Help / Advice Forum
While cursing the person who left their laundry in the washing machine this evening, I realized I had finally saved enough money for a down payment on a condo.

I've done some research, and there are units available that would cost me something on the order of 28% of my pre-tax income per month (including insurance, property tax, HOA) assuming I qualified for a reasonable rate. If I go through the entire process, I'll be on the hook for an order of magnitude more money than I ever have before, and that scares me.

I'm in the Pacific Northwest, where house prices are high and getting higher. Seems like it's a seller's market out here. I have no debt (yet), a solid job, and not much in the way of expenses...yet.

Now what? What are the traps and gotchas? Recommended places for more in depth research? Plus, there's also the concern about moving. How do I estimate the time until I break even vs. renting? It's maybe financially possible, but how do I decide if it's the right decision?

Help!

Orca on
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  • ASimPersonASimPerson And they will tremble again at the sound of our silence.Registered User regular
    Well, use some mortgage calculators online to get a handle on what your monthly payments would be. You have a pretty good idea of all the main expenses, so you can then add estimates of those values and factor that into your per-month costs.

    Then remember that you can deduct on your taxes any mortgage interest you pay as well as the property taxes (provided that your mortgage interest + property taxes are higher than the standard deduction). Depending on the rental market in your area, you may already save money versus renting before factoring in the deduction.

    Then remember that by owning you, well, own it, so when you stop living there you can either rent it out or sell it.

    When you get serious about buying, ask around and see if anyone you know knows a realtor and a mortgage broker. You can get mortgages online and stuff, but I found having an in person broker indispensable (though this may not apply to brokers outside of California).

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  • LailLail Surrey, B.C.Registered User regular
    If/when you decide on a condo, do these two things:
    1. Hire a building inspector and have an inspection done.
    2. Have your real estate agent get the strata to send you the last 2 years worth of meeting minutes. Read the minutes and make sure there are no major issues going on (huge upcoming repairs, outstanding litigation, etc).

    You don't want to buy into a condo that is going to end up being a huge headache and potential financial drain.

    EncGnome-Interruptus
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    ASimPerson wrote: »
    Well, use some mortgage calculators online to get a handle on what your monthly payments would be. You have a pretty good idea of all the main expenses, so you can then add estimates of those values and factor that into your per-month costs.

    Already did that. It's what happens after...
    ASimPerson wrote: »
    Then remember that you can deduct on your taxes any mortgage interest you pay as well as the property taxes (provided that your mortgage interest + property taxes are higher than the standard deduction). Depending on the rental market in your area, you may already save money versus renting before factoring in the deduction.

    Then remember that by owning you, well, own it, so when you stop living there you can either rent it out or sell it.

    When you get serious about buying, ask around and see if anyone you know knows a realtor and a mortgage broker. You can get mortgages online and stuff, but I found having an in person broker indispensable (though this may not apply to brokers outside of California).

    How did you find an in-person broker more useful than getting a mortgage online?

    Orca on
  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    Don't forget to estimate your yearly property tax.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Lail wrote: »
    2. Have your real estate agent get the strata to send you the last 2 years worth of meeting minutes. Read the minutes and make sure there are no major issues going on (huge upcoming repairs, outstanding litigation, etc).

    You don't want to buy into a condo that is going to end up being a huge headache and potential financial drain.

    Now that...is some damned good advice I hadn't thought of.

    DevoutlyApathetic
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Lail wrote: »
    If/when you decide on a condo, do these two things:
    1. Hire a building inspector and have an inspection done.
    2. Have your real estate agent get the strata to send you the last 2 years worth of meeting minutes. Read the minutes and make sure there are no major issues going on (huge upcoming repairs, outstanding litigation, etc).

    You don't want to buy into a condo that is going to end up being a huge headache and potential financial drain.

    Also, keep an eye out for depreciation reports. In the Vancouver, BC area they are required under the city bylaws, although stratas can vote to postpone obtaining one. One sign of potential problems or strata maintenance neglect is the absence of a depreciation report.

    Also, remember to include strata fees and what may or maynot be included in them when calculating your monthly costs.

    On the tax front, I'm not sure if it applies, but there may be things like a property transfer tax. Make sure you include its cost in your calculations.

    I'm not sure how things work on the mortgage front in the USA, but in Canada I got a line of credit securitized against my mortgage. Each dollar I pay off on my mortgage increases a dollar available on the line of credit, up to the total value of the mortgage when the mortgage has been paid off. The interest rate for the line of credit is 0.5% higher than my mortgage interest rate. There will be expenses that come up and a line of credit can help tide you over. Around here, unsecured lines of credit tend to have interest rates of 7%, while secured are in the 3% range.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Be aware of down payment stuff. If you don't hit 20% you'll also have to pay mortgage insurance on the loan.

    Also closing costs. Some of them are percentage based but they'll be a considerable number even if you go with a low down payment loan.

    bowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Be aware of down payment stuff. If you don't hit 20% you'll also have to pay mortgage insurance on the loan.

    Also closing costs. Some of them are percentage based but they'll be a considerable number even if you go with a low down payment loan.

    Always add another 10% on top of your down payment for associated house stuff.

    I was surprised as I neared closing when I tried to buy a house just how much shit I'd have to pay for. Luckily it fell through.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    schuss
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    For condos specifically, look into rate of occupancy by residents versus renters. Find out what local rules apply to that specific thing. In many areas, a community development like condos can only have a certain percentage of renter-occupied versus owner-occupied units, and buying into a place that's at the limit affects your ability to do with the unit what you want (and sell down the line.)

    Also look into what units are rent controlled or impacted by low income housing requirements and stuff.

    What is this I don't even.
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    bowen wrote: »
    Be aware of down payment stuff. If you don't hit 20% you'll also have to pay mortgage insurance on the loan.

    Also closing costs. Some of them are percentage based but they'll be a considerable number even if you go with a low down payment loan.

    Always add another 10% on top of your down payment for associated house stuff.

    I was surprised as I neared closing when I tried to buy a house just how much shit I'd have to pay for. Luckily it fell through.

    I can hit well over 20% with an ample reserve (that's what makes this doable). But the higher the closing costs, the lower the downpayment. I'm hoping for something like 30-40% down, then a 15 year fixed with overall housing expense servicing chewing up no more than 28% of pre-tax. Or go 30 year for the flexibility, but pay it off at the 15 year rate. That leaves plenty of room for housing reserve costs (the inevitable repairs and replacements) and not eating dogfood. I was originally budgeting 6% for closing costs, but it sounds like I should bump that up.
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    I'm not sure how things work on the mortgage front in the USA, but in Canada I got a line of credit securitized against my mortgage. Each dollar I pay off on my mortgage increases a dollar available on the line of credit, up to the total value of the mortgage when the mortgage has been paid off. The interest rate for the line of credit is 0.5% higher than my mortgage interest rate. There will be expenses that come up and a line of credit can help tide you over. Around here, unsecured lines of credit tend to have interest rates of 7%, while secured are in the 3% range.

    You can do the same here in the US, but I'd want to avoid that if at all possible.

    Basically, affordability is a solved problem for me (assuming prices don't jump another 20% before I can get something). It's the due diligence, the process, and the gotchas that I'm worried about.

    edit: especially considering it's a seller's market. I've heard of people forgoing the inspection in order for their offer to be considered, houses selling in days well over list, etc.

    Orca on
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Don't pay more than you have to on downpayment. Having additional funds gets very important if the market takes a crap and you need an expensive repair (so no home equity line).
    Other thing is to make sure you're planning on staying put for 7-10 years, as otherwise it's more an anchor than a foundation.

    bowenSimpsonia
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Don't pay more than you have to on downpayment. Having additional funds gets very important if the market takes a crap and you need an expensive repair (so no home equity line).
    Other thing is to make sure you're planning on staying put for 7-10 years, as otherwise it's more an anchor than a foundation.

    That's where my question of the break-even point comes in. Right now I'm throwing away something like a quarter of my income down the rent hole. How do I calculate the break-even point for this, ignoring appreciation? It's a hot market right now, but if we have another implosion, that could change.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    20% is a good down payment.

    Plus you get tax bennies for having interest on your loan (assuming you can itemize). There's not really an easy way to calculate it.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    Elvenshae
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    20% means you don't have to pay for mortgage insurance and can use a conventional loan and all that.

    Rates are silly low right now in a historical way. I'd question if putting more money into the mortgage than needed is a great idea when you should get a better return elsewhere. Though both won't be terribly liquid for you so should be separate from a reserve fund for OH SHIT style of things.

    Edit: Oh, and you were waffling between 30 and 15 I'll point out that 20 year loans are a thing.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    bowen
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    I've found this NYT calculator to be helpful in the rent vs buy decision. Obviously, its a simplification but there you have it. Be sure to check that its assumptions are accurate for your location/situation. They can be changed in there somewhere.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html?_r=0

    Orca
  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    you can also get the mortgage company to drop the PMI once you hit 80% of the loan without penatly or refinance

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    (for non FHA loans)

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    JebusUD
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    On the note of tracking if there are major repairs coming up, see if you can tell how much cash on hand they have via the meeting notes if they also include the operating budgets. My condo had a relatively low HOA fee at the start, but due to major repairs and really bad winters they ate through all of their cash on hand and have to take out a loan, and our HOA fees are going up almost $100 a month. Worth to keep that in mind in your budgeting as well.

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    Simpsonia
  • caligynefobcaligynefob DKRegistered User regular
    Things I have found to be helpful (I'm in Denmark so it might not apply to the US)

    1) try to get to get a feel of how many renters vs. owners there are in the building as renters in my experience tend to care a little less for the state and the community of the building

    2) be extremely thorough when reading through the building rules (might HOA rules in the US) and don't be afraid to walk away from a building that has rules that clash with how you'll live

    3) get a tough lawyer to read through contracts and regulations of the building

    PS4 - Mrfuzzyhat
  • ASimPersonASimPerson And they will tremble again at the sound of our silence.Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Orca wrote: »
    How did you find an in-person broker more useful than getting a mortgage online?

    I was able to sit down in his office, and he walked me through the entire process of applying for a loan. He did all the work to search for the best rate. Him and his assistant did everything they could to browbeat my HOA into getting their stuff in shape to the satisfaction of the lender (in particular, my issue was that for condos only a certain percentage of the units can be delinquent on their fees). Without them, I'm not sure I would've been able to get the house I got.

    That said, in California, mortgage brokers have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of their clients, so your mileage may vary.

    ASimPerson on
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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    I've found this NYT calculator to be helpful in the rent vs buy decision. Obviously, its a simplification but there you have it. Be sure to check that its assumptions are accurate for your location/situation. They can be changed in there somewhere.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html?_r=0

    Playing around with my assumptions has been eye opening. Good find.

    Cauld
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    I've seen those calculators, and think they are still best case scenario. One set of special assessment dues could spike that break even point another 2-3 years, or more. I know quite a few people who bought a condo and then pretty quickly got hit with thousands, and in one case tens of thousands, in special assessment dues to replace roofs, buy new boiler systems, etc. So if buying in an older building or development ask about the age of common element infrastructure as well.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • hsuhsu Registered User regular
    The most important thing about buying is location.

    Get something near work (within 30 minutes in normal traffic), near where a lot of jobs are if you need to change jobs, and within a reasonable walking distance (within a mile) of stuff like supermarkets, convenience stores, bars, auto repair shops, and restaurants. Even if it means a smaller place.

    Time is one of your most valuable assets, and having a short commute, having a short distance to travel for chores after work, those are worth a lot, in time and in piece of mind. You don't miss them until you don't have them, and unlike renting, you can't change your mind next year if you make a mistake in location.

    I went from a 2 bed, 1.5 bath, 1350 sq ft, new construction in a far away suburb to a 2 bed, 1 bath, 1050 sq ft, 100 year old house in a close to Boston suburb when I bought my second place, which should tell you how much I came to value location.

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    Caedwyr
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    hsu wrote: »
    The most important thing about buying is location.

    Get something near work (within 30 minutes in normal traffic), near where a lot of jobs are if you need to change jobs, and within a reasonable walking distance (within a mile) of stuff like supermarkets, convenience stores, bars, auto repair shops, and restaurants. Even if it means a smaller place.

    Time is one of your most valuable assets, and having a short commute, having a short distance to travel for chores after work, those are worth a lot, in time and in piece of mind. You don't miss them until you don't have them, and unlike renting, you can't change your mind next year if you make a mistake in location.

    I went from a 2 bed, 1.5 bath, 1350 sq ft, new construction in a far away suburb to a 2 bed, 1 bath, 1050 sq ft, 100 year old house in a close to Boston suburb when I bought my second place, which should tell you how much I came to value location.

    Well, that's the first rule of real estate: location, location, location. You can change everything else, but you can't change that.

    Orca
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    And that's why the question of breakeven points comes in. How long do I need to stay in the area of my current job before I'm not losing money vs. renting if I have to move? If the answer is "15 years", that's a long time to lock myself in. If it's "4 years", that's not so bad. I can deal with a crummy commute for a year or two if I need to change jobs. I don't want to deal with a crummy commute for 10 years.

  • hsuhsu Registered User regular
    I think you've taken the wrong message here.

    For my first house, I should've purchased a 700 sq ft 1 bedroom or even a 600 sq ft studio in a 60 year old building in my current suburb or an adjacent suburb, instead of going with the larger, new construction, in a much further suburb that I actually bought. I should have compromised size and newness of construction, instead of accepting a bad commute.

    In every measurable way, including house appreciation, a smaller place within 6 miles of downtown Boston would've been the better purchase, now that I've had the benefit of hindsight.

    Thus, my hard won advice is to never accept a bad commute, if you have any choice in the matter. You are better off compromising elsewhere.

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    CelestialBadgerDarkewolfe
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    hsu wrote: »
    I think you've taken the wrong message here.

    For my first house, I should've purchased a 700 sq ft 1 bedroom or even a 600 sq ft studio in a 60 year old building in my current suburb or an adjacent suburb, instead of going with the larger, new construction, in a much further suburb that I actually bought. I should have compromised size and newness of construction, instead of accepting a bad commute.

    In every measurable way, including house appreciation, a smaller place within 6 miles of downtown Boston would've been the better purchase, now that I've had the benefit of hindsight.

    Thus, my hard won advice is to never accept a bad commute, if you have any choice in the matter. You are better off compromising elsewhere.

    Nah, I'm just not articulating myself well. Let me rephrase:

    The commute is paramount. The longer the commute, the lower the quality of life.

    I've figured that part out already, when I went from a 5 minute commute to a 30 minute commute (1 hour+ on the wrong time/day of the week, which is why I deliberately commute on off hours).

    If I purchase a house that has a good commute for the place I work now, my concern is what happens if my job location changes? A shorter time-to-break-even means less time I have to tolerate a crap commute (or eat expenses in excess of what I might have had if I had been renting if I decide to move).

    Cauld
  • ASimPersonASimPerson And they will tremble again at the sound of our silence.Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    And that's why the question of breakeven points comes in. How long do I need to stay in the area of my current job before I'm not losing money vs. renting if I have to move? If the answer is "15 years", that's a long time to lock myself in. If it's "4 years", that's not so bad. I can deal with a crummy commute for a year or two if I need to change jobs. I don't want to deal with a crummy commute for 10 years.

    I think you're the only one that can determine what the "breakeven point" is, since we don't have any numbers or concrete information about where you are. Since it sounds like you live in a relatively hot market, you'll probably going to be paying enough in mortgage interest to itemize your deductions if you aren't already. That alone could potentially save you thousands of dollars, and in total you may wind up paying less than it would cost to rent an equivalent place, which means your breakeven time is however long it takes to pay off your closing costs (many of which are also tax deductible).

    There's also so many soft factors in home ownership (like the current commute time discussion) that it may not be purely about the numbers.

    Like, by the numbers, I definitely should not have moved out of the house I own (and am now renting out) to pay more in rent elsewhere. But I enjoy where I live now vastly more than where I did before.

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    schuss
  • hsuhsu Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    If I purchase a house that has a good commute for the place I work now, my concern is what happens if my job location changes?
    My attempt to mitigate this was to purchase a house in a location with a reasonable commute to where all the main businesses in my field seem to be located. In Boston, my field seems concentrated around the route 128 corridor, which is 10 miles to my west, the MIT area about 4 miles east, and downtown-ish Boston about 5 miles east. Heading west ends up being a reverse commute for much of it, meaning that I'm about a 15 minute bike ride (heading east) to a 25 minute drive (heading west) for any expected job change.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Generally breakeven is around 7-10 years given maintenance/renovation etc.
    There are markets where this is demonstrably NOT true (SF etc.)
    If you're worried about workplaces - determine first if there are many other companies in your job field in the immediate vicinity or not, if not - is yours the outlier?

    I'd also recommend just hanging out in different areas to get a feel for them and see which you want. This goes a long way towards helping. I generally have had a commute <15 minutes for my entire career, but there was a short period where it was occasionally 45 due to different office location, but the trainride early in the morning was very relaxing so I didn't mind. It's not only the length but quality of the commute.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Regarding 15 vs. 20 vs. 30, I highly recommend a 30 year mortgage, and overpaying. You can specify in your mortgage payment that you want the excess to go to principal. Plus, you have the flexibility to reduce your payments if you run into any sort of financial hardship, or have to pay off another debt.

    ElvenshaeCaedwyrschussSir Carcassarakis99
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Yes, provided the mortgage has an overpayment system that allows you to overpay and achieve your desired repayment period without any penalties. On my mortgage, I can overpay up to 20% on each mortgage payment, plus a one-time payment once each year up to 20% of the original mortgage balance. The other thing I've done is set up bi-weekly mortgage payments to match my paycheck cycle. This ends up being a couple payments more than twice a month over the course of the year. It smooths out the impact on my bank account, which gives me a better idea how much money I have to play around with for optionals and it also reduces the amount of interest I pay due to the more frequent servicing of the debt. With the super low interest rates we are deal with right now it doesn't make a huge difference financially on total interest paid, but if interest rates go up it will add up.

  • cookiekrushcookiekrush Registered User regular
    I echo what a lot of people are saying here, and having just purchased an condo as few months ago, there are many things to look for strictly with a condo.

    Renter/Owner ratio. Some insurances companies will have higher rates or not insure if the renter ratio is too high. Be sure to look at the policy to include Wall In (I believe that's the term). There are two types of common insurance policy for condo where they will fix up to the wall and no appliances, or everything inside, walls, floors, appliances.

    Check the meeting minutes, budgets, etc. Be sure they have a health budget in the reverses. Normally that's about 2-3K per unit in the association. Ask about the age of the common use items: roof, common stairwells, elevators, boiler, water tanks. (Again this could depend as I have my own water tank and heating in my unit that I am responsible for). Be sure to ask about any recent or upcoming reviews/assessments. If the owner selling has not paid their assessment, they cannot sell their units (at least that's in my state)

    In terms of the years of mortgage, there are many factors to consider and you really need to know your budget and how flexible you are. 15 years is much shorter, but higher monthly payments. 30 year is longer, but lower. Just be sure when looking, see if there are any penalties for paying early or over paying. Some companies restrict you to remain in the full term of the loan and fine you a fee for paying out early.

    Check out the location and see if you like it. Depending on the condo unit, garden/townhouse/etc, knock on the walls and the floors. My condo unit is a garden style, but each unit is separated by drywall, brick, then concrete. I don't hear my neighbors at all and I can stomp on my floors without bothering anyone. At my friend's condo, you can clearly hear people running around/going up and down stairs. It may not bother you, but it would suck if have crappy neighbors above/below you who can make a lot of noise.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and information. I should have a lead on a good mortgage broker (thanks to a colleague), and I'm starting to track the housing prices and go to those open houses. Here goes nothing...

    Orca on
    CauldDevoutlyApathetic
  • The Crowing OneThe Crowing One Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    I'm in consumer protection with a deep focus in homeownership.

    Unless you are incapable of maintenance, condos suck. The pitfalls are many with the benefits being based on the condo association being healthy. 1) Economic downturns hit condos hard. The loss of "owners" causes payments to sometimes skyrocket. 2) HoA/Condo Associations are private communities... that means many legal protections a whole-homeowner has for their own property is likely not the case for condos. Your HoA/Condo Association needs to spend four weeks (realistically eight weeks) working in your unit? You have zero ability to tell them to leave. They can also raise fees without any oversight nor any reason. 3) You simply aren't in control of the property you buy. Sure you "own" it, but that ownership ends when the association decides they don't like you. You may get forced to sell at a loss due to extra-legal condo "rules".

    Lastly, HoA and Condo leans are... horrific. Even a bank who is completely morally bankrupt doesn't do what condo owners are allowed to do under the law. In my working with upwards of 5k+ families to keep their homes (including many from here in H/A when I had my sticky up during the crisis) the ones who had no hope were the condos who were free to do awful things because they were private.

    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/20790264/

    The Crowing One on
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    arakis99
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I'm in consumer protection with a deep focus in homeownership.

    Unless you are incapable of maintenance, condos suck. The pitfalls are many with the benefits being based on the condo association being healthy. 1) Economic downturns hit condos hard. The loss of "owners" causes payments to sometimes skyrocket. 2) HoA/Condo Associations are private communities... that means many legal protections a whole-homeowner has for their own property is likely not the case for condos. Your HoA/Condo Association needs to spend four weeks (realistically eight weeks) working in your unit? You have zero ability to tell them to leave. They can also raise fees without any oversight nor any reason. 3) You simply aren't in control of the property you buy. Sure you "own" it, but that ownership ends when the association decides they don't like you. You may get forced to sell at a loss due to extra-legal condo "rules".

    Lastly, HoA and Condo leans are... horrific. Even a bank who is completely morally bankrupt doesn't do what condo owners are allowed to do under the law. In my working with upwards of 5k+ families to keep their homes (including many from here in H/A when I had my sticky up during the crisis) the ones who had no hope were the condos who were free to do awful things because they were private.

    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/20790264/

    So what's the solution? I cannot possibly afford a single family residence. Prices start at half a mil for a shithole and go up extremely rapidly from there. Multifamily residences are the only thing remotely in shouting range, and at those prices are equivalent to in total monthly cost to renting.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Sounds like The Crowing One mostly sees the bad side of MFRs so naturally will be cautious. Most of those things are true to a degree, but you can avoid a lot it by doing your homework.

    We're in a mostly-older aged condo & apt complex and it's been fine for 10 years. Took a bath as we bought in 2007, but the unit and building have been fine. Neighbors pised me off for awhile but they've quieted down, and having a big patk and a pool basically outside my door has been great.

    So shop around, and look into the unit, the building, and the Association.

    Echo wrote: »
    Something working on the first try is a source of great suspicion.
  • The Crowing OneThe Crowing One Registered User regular
    Just... take into account you lose a lot of control. I didn't have a sticky for nothing :p

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    In NYC just about everyone who owns, owns some variation on a condo. It isn't considered scary.

  • The Crowing OneThe Crowing One Registered User regular
    Believe me or not. I'd hope you'll believe me.

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