By the Mystic Moons of the MCU, I conjure [Doctor Strange]!

Fakefaux

Hey, there's a new movie coming out today! About this guy! He's a wizard.



He's looking a bit more dignified for the movie:



Anyway, it stars Hannibal Lecter, the archangel Gabriel, and a guy with a funny sounding name. Here's a trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSzx-zryEgM

And some clips!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6HJwl1MxDQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMDGocv34j8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfbh3eHbakY

Discuss below. Keep in mind, the movie opens internationally today (Oct. 25), but does not open in North America until November 4th. Use your spoiler tags and mark them properly, or risk being consumed by the flames of the Faltine!

...not really. But use your spoilers.

Jazz

I went today, saw it in 3D as it was the only option. I'm glad it was, best 3D I've ever seen, not just in the effect but how well it was used. I HIGHLY recommend seeing it in 3D and I never, ever thought I'd say that - I've not been a fan of the format but it's stunning here.

If it has a flaw it's that the plot is pretty predictable. But the cast is universally excellent, every shot is beautiful, and it's really unexpectedly funny too (despite obviously not being a comedy).

One of my favorite Marvels by far, easily up there with the likes of Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier. I loved it.

My mum came too - she's a huge Cumberbatch fan - and also loved it. She described it as "smooth", by which I think she meant it was a lot easier to follow than she'd expected (I think she expected to be a bit lost between the comic-book-ness and the mysticism angle), it was instantly involving, and it flowed very well, which it did.

Desktop Hippie

I'm going to see this on Thursday! I had serious reservations about seeing it in 3D as I was so disappointed with Avengers in 3D, but it sounds like this is top notch so I'm in!

Fakefaux

Jazz wrote: »

I went today, saw it in 3D as it was the only option. I'm glad it was, best 3D I've ever seen, not just in the effect but how well it was used. I HIGHLY recommend seeing it in 3D and I never, ever thought I'd say that - I've not been a fan of the format but it's stunning here.

If it has a flaw it's that the plot is pretty predictable. But the cast is universally excellent, every shot is beautiful, and it's really unexpectedly funny too (despite obviously not being a comedy).

One of my favorite Marvels by far, easily up there with the likes of Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier. I loved it.

My mum came too - she's a huge Cumberbatch fan - and also loved it. She described it as "smooth", by which I think she meant it was a lot easier to follow than she'd expected (I think she expected to be a bit lost between the comic-book-ness and the mysticism angle), it was instantly involving, and it flowed very well, which it did.

What's the characterization of Strange like? I've heard some early reviews comparing him to RDJ's Tony Stark. Is he equally snarky or more deadpan? What would you say differentiates the two?

Jazz

Fakefaux wrote: »

Jazz wrote: »

I went today, saw it in 3D as it was the only option. I'm glad it was, best 3D I've ever seen, not just in the effect but how well it was used. I HIGHLY recommend seeing it in 3D and I never, ever thought I'd say that - I've not been a fan of the format but it's stunning here.

If it has a flaw it's that the plot is pretty predictable. But the cast is universally excellent, every shot is beautiful, and it's really unexpectedly funny too (despite obviously not being a comedy).

One of my favorite Marvels by far, easily up there with the likes of Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier. I loved it.

My mum came too - she's a huge Cumberbatch fan - and also loved it. She described it as "smooth", by which I think she meant it was a lot easier to follow than she'd expected (I think she expected to be a bit lost between the comic-book-ness and the mysticism angle), it was instantly involving, and it flowed very well, which it did.

What's the characterization of Strange like? I've heard some early reviews comparing him to RDJ's Tony Stark. Is he equally snarky or more deadpan? What would you say differentiates the two?

Strange isn't quite as theatrically outspoken in his arrogance as Stark. He repeatedly tries (and usually fails, although not to the audience) to lighten the mood through poor joking, which he gets called out on. Strange is also not nearly as much of a dick for the sake of it as Stark is...

Minor spoiler that you probably already gathered from the trailers:

He gets brought so low by what happens to him, and is shown so much by The Ancient One, that his arrogance from then on gets kept firmly in check, even if it doesn't quite disappear.

He's perhaps not as "lovable" as Stark is but I think he's more likable. Cumberbatch always keeps Strange's feet on the ground, even when all hell breaks loose. I rather like that.

They are quite similar characters, though, there's no denying that.

Fakefaux

Jazz wrote: »

Fakefaux wrote: »

Jazz wrote: »

I went today, saw it in 3D as it was the only option. I'm glad it was, best 3D I've ever seen, not just in the effect but how well it was used. I HIGHLY recommend seeing it in 3D and I never, ever thought I'd say that - I've not been a fan of the format but it's stunning here.

If it has a flaw it's that the plot is pretty predictable. But the cast is universally excellent, every shot is beautiful, and it's really unexpectedly funny too (despite obviously not being a comedy).

One of my favorite Marvels by far, easily up there with the likes of Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier. I loved it.

My mum came too - she's a huge Cumberbatch fan - and also loved it. She described it as "smooth", by which I think she meant it was a lot easier to follow than she'd expected (I think she expected to be a bit lost between the comic-book-ness and the mysticism angle), it was instantly involving, and it flowed very well, which it did.

What's the characterization of Strange like? I've heard some early reviews comparing him to RDJ's Tony Stark. Is he equally snarky or more deadpan? What would you say differentiates the two?

Strange isn't quite as theatrically outspoken in his arrogance as Stark. He repeatedly tries (and usually fails, although not to the audience) to lighten the mood through poor joking, which he gets called out on. Strange is also not nearly as much of a dick for the sake of it as Stark is...

Minor spoiler that you probably already gathered from the trailers:

He gets brought so low by what happens to him, and is shown so much by The Ancient One, that his arrogance from then on gets kept firmly in check, even if it doesn't quite disappear.

He's perhaps not as "lovable" as Stark is but I think he's more likable. Cumberbatch always keeps Strange's feet on the ground, even when all hell breaks loose. I rather like that.

They are quite similar characters, though, there's no denying that.

Would you say there's a distinct difference between surgeon Strange and sorcerer Strange, in terms of his personality changing over time?

Jazz

Fakefaux wrote: »

Jazz wrote: »

Fakefaux wrote: »

Jazz wrote: »

I went today, saw it in 3D as it was the only option. I'm glad it was, best 3D I've ever seen, not just in the effect but how well it was used. I HIGHLY recommend seeing it in 3D and I never, ever thought I'd say that - I've not been a fan of the format but it's stunning here.

If it has a flaw it's that the plot is pretty predictable. But the cast is universally excellent, every shot is beautiful, and it's really unexpectedly funny too (despite obviously not being a comedy).

One of my favorite Marvels by far, easily up there with the likes of Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier. I loved it.

My mum came too - she's a huge Cumberbatch fan - and also loved it. She described it as "smooth", by which I think she meant it was a lot easier to follow than she'd expected (I think she expected to be a bit lost between the comic-book-ness and the mysticism angle), it was instantly involving, and it flowed very well, which it did.

What's the characterization of Strange like? I've heard some early reviews comparing him to RDJ's Tony Stark. Is he equally snarky or more deadpan? What would you say differentiates the two?

Strange isn't quite as theatrically outspoken in his arrogance as Stark. He repeatedly tries (and usually fails, although not to the audience) to lighten the mood through poor joking, which he gets called out on. Strange is also not nearly as much of a dick for the sake of it as Stark is...

Minor spoiler that you probably already gathered from the trailers:

He gets brought so low by what happens to him, and is shown so much by The Ancient One, that his arrogance from then on gets kept firmly in check, even if it doesn't quite disappear.

He's perhaps not as "lovable" as Stark is but I think he's more likable. Cumberbatch always keeps Strange's feet on the ground, even when all hell breaks loose. I rather like that.

They are quite similar characters, though, there's no denying that.

Would you say there's a distinct difference between surgeon Strange and sorcerer Strange, in terms of his personality changing over time?

Definitely.

Minor character arc spoiler:

Much of it due to him learning respect - for other people, for the world around him, and naturally for the power of magic.

Although, again, he's recognizably the same guy. He doesn't change completely from one character to another. But it is a marked difference and Cumberbatch nails it and sells it (I'd expect no less of him at this point, as an unashamed fan).

surrealitycheck

solid film i give it 4 chumblewumbles out of 5

i enjoy

Ziggymon

It's very by the numbers marvel MCU plot even with generic forgettable villain. However it's very tightly made with solid cast and very trippy. Inception feels very childish in comparison

Burnage

I saw this tonight!

I enjoyed it, but it is a film to never, ever watch on LSD.

surrealitycheck

Burnage wrote: »

I saw this tonight!

I enjoyed it, but it is a film to never, ever watch on LSD.

funny u should say that im organising an lsd watch of it with the bro i went with this time

should be fun

Fakefaux

Burnage wrote: »

I saw this tonight!

I enjoyed it, but it is a film to never, ever watch on LSD.

Well there go my viewing plans.

surrealitycheck

i suggested a dmt watch first but he pointed out not much watching would be involved and i was like o good point

Fakefaux

Can we get some answers to the important questions here? Such as, does Dr. Strange ever make an entrance like this during the movie?

TexiKen

Moer leik Dorktor Strange #swish

Burnage

Aw man, turns out that there are two credits scenes in this. I only stayed for the first.

The first is

Strange chatting with Thor

The second is apparently

Mordo attacking Pangborn?

surrealitycheck

Burnage wrote: »

Aw man, turns out that there are two credits scenes in this. I only stayed for the first.

The first is

Strange chatting with Thor

The second is apparently

Mordo attacking Pangborn?

yeah i didnt expect the DOUBLE STINGER DOUBLE SURPRISE COMBO but my bro made me stay

and u r correct on content

Schadenfreude

Re: Stinger #2

By the end of the film Mordo is disgusted with both Strange and the Ancient One breaking the rules. He shows up at Pangborn's and says that he's come to the conclusion that "There are too many sorcerers." Mordo somehow sucks Pangborn's magic out of him which was all that was keeping him able-bodied. Poor Jimmy Smitts Benjamin Bratt. The end.

Jazz

Schadenfreude wrote: »

Re: Stinger #2

By the end of the film Mordo is disgusted with both Strange and the Ancient One breaking the rules. He shows up at Pangborn's and says that he's come to the conclusion that "There are too many sorcerers." Mordo somehow sucks Pangborn's magic out of him which was all that was keeping him able-bodied. Poor Jimmy Smitts. The end.

You mean poor Benjamin Bratt, right?

Schadenfreude

Ack! You're right. Don't post sleepy, kids.

Though poor Jimmy Smits too for a host of other reasons.

Harry Dresden

Speculation

Kaecilius is a servant for Mordo in the comics, what if it's the same here? Except we don't find out until later - like in the stinger.

klemming

Saw it, loved it.

I'm guessing that 'spinal injury in experimental armor' he passed on was Rhodey? Or maybe the poor guy in that Hammer tech suit in Iron Man 2? Is there an official timeframe for when this happened?
I'm guessing it was Rhodey, since the Avengers tower was clearly visible in New York.

Re the first stinger:

Does this mean Strange is going to have a significant role in Ragnarok? It felt like it. If so, I'm legit impressed that they've managed to keep that quiet up to now.

Dizzy D

Halfway through the movie (was this break really necessary? ) So far enjoying it but it is pretty predictable if pretty.

klemming

Break?

Dizzy D

The cinema I visit had a break halfway through.

Overall things I liked, things I didn't. But I'm a purist when it comes to Strange. On Phone so more later.

Warcry

This was a good movie.

big spoilers below

The final act was really cool. The fighting in Hong Kong while the destroyed city was going back to normal in reverse was really creative. And the way he beat Dormammu...I was half expecting it to be a DBZ-style beam war, but the film's 'alternate' way was pretty cool.

Also, was I the only one expecting Strange to attempt to use the Eye to reverse the damage to his hands?

A few of the jokes fell a bit flat for me, but it's still got some quite funny bits. Usually brick jokes.

I'd give it 7.5 or 8 out of 10.

Asher

Saw this today and enjoyed!
I agree with the general consensus of reviews so for in the sense that it was somewhat of an origin story by the numbers and some characters could have done with more fleshing out and/or more to do, but the tone was great and the visuals were truly spectacular. I'd put it solidly in the 2nd Tier of Marvel films as far as my personal opinion goes. I didn't like it as much as Guardians or Winter Soldier, but it was damn solid. Good but not great. No real mistakes but not as much "sizzle" as some other films. I have some thoughts on why below: (Spoilers for general plot points and character detail)

While Rachel McAdams was great when she was in the film, she didn't really have much to do, though the surgery/astral plane battle was a pretty funny set piece. Also Mads was a bit of a nothing bad guy. He had good screen presence, but I think for me the main issue is that he isn't really connected to Strange at all. Mordo mentions that he was similar to Strange, but thats about it. They don't even meet until well into the film. The film lacks the family/friendship bond that really makes a lot of the marvel films. One of the reasons Winter Soldier was so compelling for me was Bucky. As both an implacable foe and as a friend Steve was trying to redeem. Guardians villain wasn't great, but the forging of the bond between the guardians gave the film a lot of heart as the characters came t care for, respect and worry about eachother. Even in the Ironman series, Tony and his dysfunctional family of Pepper, Happy and Dummy gives it a strong heart and his personal connections to his villains has made them compelling even if they weren't amazing. The brotherly dysfunction between Thor and Loki made those films work for me. I feel Dr Strange lacked that. I look forward to him being bros with Wong, but he spent more time with Mordo this film who was pretty aloof and while there was good chemistry between McAdams and Cumberbatch, they weren't together enough. The complete separation of hero and villain made their clashes seem less weighty that they otherwise could have. I did love the non conventional method of defeating Dormammu though.!

ronya

felt uncreative visually. not a bad movie but it came off as phoned-in to me

the climax

of strange time-looping dormammu felt too CGI'd, as if the visual direction tried for "alien geometries" and instead wound up with "green-screen 90s 3d". the time loop was lightly foreshadowed when Mordu brings it up when berating Strange but, I think, needed more development - maybe one scene of Strange getting himself stuck in a loop and then bailed out by Mordu (maybe that's saved for the director's cut?)

the mirror universe concept had more development and turned out to be completely irrelevant

the romantic b-plot

of strange's reconciliation with christine palmer was too easily won

Maz-

Yo, just got back from seeing this.

I really enjoyed it! While it's definitely formulaic, it's a formula that Marvel has pretty much perfected by now, and the strong cast and the amazing visual effects really help give the movie its own identity beyond that formula.

As always, the villain was bit weak, but I'm honestly not surprised by that anymore in Marvel movies. Although, on that note..

(stinger spoilers)

Mordo (?) being hinted at as the sequel's villain gives me hope. We already know who he is, so hopefully he'll be a compelling villain.

Oh, and Strange being in the next Thor movie is just fantastic. My hype for that is through the roof now.

Warcry

ronya wrote: »

the romantic b-plot

of strange's reconciliation with christine palmer was too easily won

But nothing happened. He didn't win her back, because she hasn't fully forgiven him. That goodbye kiss on the cheek was more 'good luck' than anything else.

SniperGuy

Just got back from this and loved it. Those special effects were wild. IMAX 3D definitely felt worth it. Rogue One and Guardians trailer/teaser in 3d beforehand were a nice bonus too.

The stinger

I want to see Hulk/Thor/Doc Strange in Raganarok kicking ass together. That sounds amazing.

Dedwrekka

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Speculation

Kaecilius is a servant for Mordo in the comics, what if it's the same here? Except we don't find out until later - like in the stinger.

Nope, the two characters are so completely at odds that Mordo discovering that the Ancient One is anything like Kaecilius precipitates his heel turn.

Mancingtom

Just got home from the theater. Loved it, probably my favorite solo MCU movie since Winter Soldier.

Best part:

I feel a little bad for the mook who get his ass kicked by a fashion accessory.

I really liked how they used the character interactions to ground the story against all the trippy stuff. Kept the story from becoming too abstract and heightened the incongruity of the magic and material world.

Slight criticism:

One of the weakest villains in the MCU, and that's saying a lot. Kaecillius has maybe a dozen lines in the whole film, and we never get a real sense of why he's so hard on the Dormammu train or why so many students would choose to follow him. The second act pays lip service to him being a foil for Strange, but they never really do anything with it. Might've been stronger if they had Kaecillius discover the Ancient One's secret in the first act, precipitating his betrayal, and more directly contrast his desire to be whole/in control with Strange's

Of course, I don't think it impacted the quality of the movie- the plot is largely a vehicle for Strange's developed from an asshole to somewhat less of an asshole.

Evermourn

I was hoping for this as an after-credit scene, but no go. Hopefully they're saving it for later (not a spoiler, just large).

Hahnsoo1

Just saw it tonight. I had another social event earlier in the evening, but I thought "Fuck it, I have time, and I haven't had a late night movie in a long time." I was not disappointed. I saw it in 3D IMAX, and the 3D was definitely worth it!

It was a lot more humor than I expected, too! My favorite joke:

"We're not savages."

It's an origin story by-the-numbers, but it's polished and does the character justice. I really enjoyed it.

KingofMadCows

I think the writing is the weakest part of the film. This may actually be one of the worst written MCU films. A lot of things just happen because the plot demands it.

It made no sense why Wong and Mordo let Strange keep the Eye of Agamotto after they got so freaked out over him using the Book of Cagliostro and casting that time altering spell.

Not only was Kaecilius poorly developed, they didn't do a good job of establishing his threat. He's supposed to be this big threat who wants to end the world but they kind of just forget about him until he shows up. He stole the pages from the Book of Cagliostro at the beginning of the film. The Ancient One knows that he's going to try to open a portal to the dark dimension. So the Ancient One just doesn't take any extra precautions to protect the Sanctums? It seems like Kaecilius was only a threat because the good guys are stupid.

The whitewashing was kind of problematic at points. Especially since they had Strange mention how a mystic was more "Kamar Taj-y" and then mistake the Asian guy for the Ancient One. I don't think it was intentional, but that kind of says, "hey, the actual indigenous people don't know the mystic arts of their own culture as well as this white lady." The fact that they had Strange talk about frauds kind of rubs it in even more, like, "yeah, those other people are just peddling superstition, not like this white lady, who knows the true magic of their culture."

CaptainNemo

Heh.

Nice little shout out near the ending.

One of Wong's apprentices has the Staff of One from Runaways.

Dizzy D

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Heh.

Nice little shout out near the ending.

One of Wong's apprentices has the Staff of One from Runaways.

Wong himself

is fighting with the Wand of Watoomb

AlphaRomero

Mancingtom wrote: »

Just got home from the theater. Loved it, probably my favorite solo MCU movie since Winter Soldier.

Slight criticism:

One of the weakest villains in the MCU, and that's saying a lot. Kaecillius has maybe a dozen lines in the whole film, and we never get a real sense of why he's so hard on the Dormammu train or why so many students would choose to follow him. The second act pays lip service to him being a foil for Strange, but they never really do anything with it. Might've been stronger if they had Kaecillius discover the Ancient One's secret in the first act, precipitating his betrayal, and more directly contrast his desire to be whole/in control with Strange's

Of course, I don't think it impacted the quality of the movie- the plot is largely a vehicle for Strange's developed from an asshole to somewhat less of an asshole.

This criticism seems like you weren't paying attention.

Kaecilius came to the mystic place originally because his wife and daughter had been killed. He DOES know that The Ancient One is using Dormammu magic, that's why he calls her a hypocrite and explicitly seeks out that same power so he can let Dormammu take over and destroy time, which would presumably give him the opportunity either to resurrect his family or prevent something like that happening again.

And why are we spoiling things in a thread dedicated to this film?

Kipling217

I do have to say that if Doctor Strange isn't on the list for best effects Oscar come January there is something wrong with the Academy.

There is... but its usually directed at POC.

Dedwrekka

KingofMadCows wrote: »

I think the writing is the weakest part of the film. This may actually be one of the worst written MCU films. A lot of things just happen because the plot demands it.

It made no sense why Wong and Mordo let Strange keep the Eye of Agamotto after they got so freaked out over him using the Book of Cagliostro and casting that time altering spell.

Not only was Kaecilius poorly developed, they didn't do a good job of establishing his threat. He's supposed to be this big threat who wants to end the world but they kind of just forget about him until he shows up. He stole the pages from the Book of Cagliostro at the beginning of the film. The Ancient One knows that he's going to try to open a portal to the dark dimension. So the Ancient One just doesn't take any extra precautions to protect the Sanctums? It seems like Kaecilius was only a threat because the good guys are stupid.

The whitewashing was kind of problematic at points. Especially since they had Strange mention how a mystic was more "Kamar Taj-y" and then mistake the Asian guy for the Ancient One. I don't think it was intentional, but that kind of says, "hey, the actual indigenous people don't know the mystic arts of their own culture as well as this white lady." The fact that they had Strange talk about frauds kind of rubs it in even more, like, "yeah, those other people are just peddling superstition, not like this white lady, who knows the true magic of their culture."

They don't just let him keep it, the bad guy blows up sanctums almost as soon as they're done telling Strange he was being an idiot. After that there isn't really time for them to take him back and force him to put the eye back on a broken pedestal.


Kaecilius wasn't trying to destroy the world, he was convinced he was trying to save it. They didn't add extra protection because the whole idea of the sanctum is that they're already doing everything that they can to prevent the dark dimension from crossing over. They're always on high alert, there's just not a lot of them to begin with.

You keep saying "of their culture", but the only "eastern mysticism" remotely involved was the one picture of chakras they briefly showed before pointing out that it is only part of a long line of attempts by many cultures to fully understand the human body. There's nothing about the magic in the movies that's particular to asian cultures.
The whitewashing issue was with taking an Asian character and making him a white woman. You're talking about a white savior narrative.