The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

[Heroes of the Storm] THE NATURE OF MONKEY WAS IRREPRESSIBLE

19394959698

Posts

  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Tassadar 100% ban rate on HGC according to the stream just now


    apparently he's a monster in EU?
    No one ever dies?

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Tim is on the InternetTim is on the Internet On the Internet Edmonton, ABRegistered User regular
    edited January 2017
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tassadar 100% ban rate on HGC according to the stream just now


    apparently he's a monster in EU?
    No one ever dies?

    Now? With what build?

    Tim is on the Internet on
    Discord: TimIsOnTheInternet#0056
    Steam: TimIsOnSteam
    Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
    Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
    PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Zagara buffs are cool, although tbh despite playing her recently she felt so awful that I don't know if those changes are enough.

    Ragnaros nerfs make sense and don't seem to be crippling.

    Zuljin buffs are cool. Although nothing on guillotine so I'm confused. I'm not sure the AA builds needed a nerf.

    Stitches getting a buff is nice. But I never feel as though I have a good scenario to play him. That's more on me though, solo queue is a crapshoot and we don't seem to run fitting comps when grouping.

  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tassadar 100% ban rate on HGC according to the stream just now


    apparently he's a monster in EU?
    No one ever dies?

    Now? With what build?

    Well he is getting banned. So...Dunno?

    It could be a kneejerk reaction of "we don't know what he is capable of so ban him since we have seen the other stuff"

    Is valeera legal or is she locked out?

    WingedWeasel on
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tassadar 100% ban rate on HGC according to the stream just now


    apparently he's a monster in EU?
    No one ever dies?

    Pick/ban rate, I think they said, which implies that he sometimes doesn't get banned but gets picked instead.

    There were some stats on him from some tournament (or maybe just an HGC weekend?) a bit ago, where Tass had like an 80% winrate among all the games or something.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tassadar 100% ban rate on HGC according to the stream just now


    apparently he's a monster in EU?
    No one ever dies?

    Now? With what build?

    No, last patch with the only build he had. HGC is on a separate tournament server right now using the pre-Valeera patch.

    And yeah, Tassadar's apparent overpoweredness has seemingly been slowly gaining recognition across the pro scene. With the meta shifting away from burst he's becoming more and more useful too.

    Some of the stuff in the rework may be intended to address this. Although he might actually be stronger for the way they use him now, I don't know. It depends on how much his shielding is better in coordinated play vs how much damage/utility he lost otherwise.

    The general problem I see though is that there's a real tension developing between him being a secondary and a solo support. Making him viable as solo support would probably make him OP as a secondary support, which is how the pros use him.

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    guysssss i think sonya might be OP as fuck now

    her whirlwind does so much damage and healing now

    like, we had a stitches on my team hook+gorge her, i stunned her out of the gorge and laid into her

    she. still. lived. she popped ignore pain, hit whirlwind, WOOPS BACK TO FULL

    wow


    ALSO, Rooster Race is now not only really easy to complete, but it pops up ALL the time. It's great. Like legit, just have everyone go and gather different items and hover near the Rooster. Give it the first item, then the rest of your team is ready to go with whatever else it wants. ez.

    Edit: Those Zul'jin changes are great! Literally hit (almost) everything I wanted. Nerfed the AA build, buffed Boneslicer, buffed Arcanite Axes and Wrong Place Wrong Time. Cooldown lowered on Guillotine which is nice and all, but it doesn't really change much about it. 45 seconds was already super low, the damage scaling is still fucked to high hell. But hey, W build should be legit now. Bumping the CDR from .5 seconds to .75 seconds should make a huge fucking difference.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tassadar 100% ban rate on HGC according to the stream just now


    apparently he's a monster in EU?
    No one ever dies?

    Now? With what build?

    No, last patch with the only build he had. HGC is on a separate tournament server right now using the pre-Valeera patch.

    And yeah, Tassadar's apparent overpoweredness has seemingly been slowly gaining recognition across the pro scene. With the meta shifting away from burst he's becoming more and more useful too.

    Some of the stuff in the rework may be intended to address this. Although he might actually be stronger for the way they use him now, I don't know. It depends on how much his shielding is better in coordinated play vs how much damage/utility he lost otherwise.

    The general problem I see though is that there's a real tension developing between him being a secondary and a solo support. Making him viable as solo support would probably make him OP as a secondary support, which is how the pros use him.


    Ah you're right!

    That tass is pre-patch.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    Heh. Every time they talk about Tass, the casters make sure to qualify these games aren't on the new patch.

    "Tass is absolutely killer for this line-up! But keep in mind, we are playing on the old patch, so..."

    SteamID: Pudgestomp
    XBL: InvaderJims
    Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Tass does the same thing as before. He's there to shield your carry as a second support (literally only your carry, given the long cooldown now). The only change they made was to his playstyle - instead of being an unkillable nuisance and soaking up damage for his team, he sits in the back and provides utility. And if you take Archon he actually does decent damage while it is active (still tickles when it is off though LOLOLOL).

    I'm not sure if playing dive Archon Tassadar actually works (E yourself in, pop R, pew pew, E back out). When I tried it a couple of times, it didn't go that well because even with shields on he can still get bursted down pretty quickly.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Yep, the patch was pretty much as I expected: assorted tweaks not based on anything from the latest patch. Ragnaros nerfed, Artanis sorta nerfed (but just as many non-meta talents were buffed...).

    The notes didn't instill me with confidence that they fixed the Rooster race debacle since they just tweaked one dumb aspect of it, but Dibby's post gives me some hope. We'll see, though, because it feels like every time it comes up, one or more people in my group seem to have no idea what is going on. Hopefully that fades away soon as people have had more days to familiarize themselves with it. If I don't get that cock I'm going to riot.

    Edit: Rogue Uther buff is appreciated, but sadly nothing to do with his healing/mana issues.

    forty on
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Any patch notes?


    I'm curious as to what bugs they fixed.


    I hope they got them all?
    Might be tough though.... there were a whole ton.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Patch notes were linked and pasted on the previous page.

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    MMMig wrote: »
    Any patch notes?


    I'm curious as to what bugs they fixed.


    I hope they got them all?
    Might be tough though.... there were a whole ton.

    Artanis bugs are still in, I think. Titan Killer/Seasoned Marksman interaction and I think the Phase Prism/Blade Dash "escape" bug are still in.

    But most everything else was nailed. Mostly.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Dibby wrote: »
    guysssss i think sonya might be OP as fuck now

    her whirlwind does so much damage and healing now

    like, we had a stitches on my team hook+gorge her, i stunned her out of the gorge and laid into her

    she. still. lived. she popped ignore pain, hit whirlwind, WOOPS BACK TO FULL

    wow


    Wow, yeah you def have to hold your stuns until she starts WW now.
    Whirlwind (W)
    Damage increased from 339 to 441 over 3 seconds
    Healing increased from 20 to 25% of damage done (tripled versus Heroes)

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    @MMMig you gonna a try the new zagara and report back your findings? I don't recall anyone else in the thread playing her as much as you

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    It occurs to me that with the inclusion of Valeera, we can live the Cloak Team Dream:
    • Nova
    • Zeratul
    • Valeera
    • Samuro
    • Sgt. Hammer/Medivh

    Marvel as we get absolutely murdered!

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
    Steam ID
    Twitch Page
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    @MMMig you gonna a try the new zagara and report back your findings? I don't recall anyone else in the thread playing her as much as you

    Hells yeah I am!
    Her Hydra dmg buff sounds like she might start contributing to team fights a little more now!
    Hunter Killer (W)
    Base damage from 62 to 65
    Damage scaling from 3.5 to 4%

    @kedinik was playing Zag almost exclusively somewhat recently as well

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Another wave of Diablo nerfs is sort of weird. I thought after that last batch he seemed to be in a place where he wasn't considered overpowered or even on the overly strong end of warriors.

    At least Lightning Breath will be more usable, though.

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    @MMMig you gonna a try the new zagara and report back your findings? I don't recall anyone else in the thread playing her as much as you

    Hells yeah I am!
    Her Hydra dmg buff sounds like she might start contributing to team fights a little more now!
    Hunter Killer (W)
    Base damage from 62 to 65
    Damage scaling from 3.5 to 4%

    @kedinik was playing Zag almost exclusively somewhat recently as well

    Yeah, one of the reasons I stopped playing HotS is that you were surprisingly toxic about me playing her

  • finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    It occurs to me that with the inclusion of Valeera, we can live the Cloak Team Dream:
    • Nova
    • Zeratul
    • Valeera
    • Samuro
    • Sgt. Hammer/Medivh

    Marvel as we get absolutely murdered!

    A couple of my friends tried Valeera/Nova/Zera in QM the day of the former's release. First game we got a Malf who chose not to take Scouting Drone at level. Suffice it to say those kinds of games are easily won (my Nova friend actually had Snipe Master finished and up throughout the game since I would just open with Cheap Shot). It fell off once you face a tankier team or smarter healers though.

    Bnet: CavilatRest#1874
    Steam: CavilatRest
  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    I'd think you'd want to pair Nova/Valeera/Samuro/Zeratul with TLV. Have the viking soak while the stealth team takes out anyone who wanders away from their walls or tries to go to an objective.

    XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
    Battle.net: morgancoke#1589

    Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Ohhhhkay yeah, so there's not a ton of data yet, but Sonya's winrate has shot the fuck up.

    Definitely seems like taking Whirlwind talents is the way to go now. Hurricane, Life Funnel. Anything you can do to max out Whirlwind's effectiveness.

    Also Poisoned Spear, Poisoned Spear is NUTS now.

    This might all even out as more games get logged, but for now that's the haps.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    I'd think you'd want to pair Nova/Valeera/Samuro/Zeratul with TLV. Have the viking soak while the stealth team takes out anyone who wanders away from their walls or tries to go to an objective.

    If we can get people I'd be down for trying this sometime in quick match (it'd be tough to draft it I think? Maybe not). I picture it'd only last a few games though...

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I'd think you'd want to pair Nova/Valeera/Samuro/Zeratul with TLV. Have the viking soak while the stealth team takes out anyone who wanders away from their walls or tries to go to an objective.

    If we can get people I'd be down for trying this sometime in quick match (it'd be tough to draft it I think? Maybe not). I picture it'd only last a few games though...

    It could maybe work for a while, if it works at all. It's always going to be new to the other team!

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    kedinik wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    @MMMig you gonna a try the new zagara and report back your findings? I don't recall anyone else in the thread playing her as much as you

    Hells yeah I am!
    Her Hydra dmg buff sounds like she might start contributing to team fights a little more now!
    Hunter Killer (W)
    Base damage from 62 to 65
    Damage scaling from 3.5 to 4%

    @kedinik was playing Zag almost exclusively somewhat recently as well

    Yeah, one of the reasons I stopped playing HotS is that you were surprisingly toxic about me playing her

    Oh crap, really? I know I get salty sometimes but sorry if it was that bad. :(

    You should come back. Zag just got buffed!

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    I'd think you'd want to pair Nova/Valeera/Samuro/Zeratul with TLV. Have the viking soak while the stealth team takes out anyone who wanders away from their walls or tries to go to an objective.

    If we can get people I'd be down for trying this sometime in quick match (it'd be tough to draft it I think? Maybe not). I picture it'd only last a few games though...

    It could maybe work for a while, if it works at all. It's always going to be new to the other team!

    I figure they will be very binary games. Blowouts one way or the other that's why I think it'd only be a few games before it'd have to change

  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    I'm def down for gimpy comps!

    I'm passable with nova and TLV!
    Better with zera.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Tempo Storm is Psalm, Jun, Cattle, Cauthon, and another guy. I know all these names, but not as TS. Was this Murloc Geniuses previously?

  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Haha the stealth team would be hilarious. I think it'd lose terribly but I'd love to try it. TLV is a good idea for soaking but for maximum fun you could have stealth Hammer :)

    bnet: Supagoat#1884
    Switch: 6589-6405-3399
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    This brawl is terrible. No surprise there of course, but it's worse since I have to finish it on my account and on my wife's account. I do it while she's at work so she doesn't have to suffer just for 1000 gold. Earns me lots of husband points!

    On the plus side, it did allow me to live the dream today. My team was 30 Zeratul and two nova. Sadly the dream was crushed when our opponents had the same idea. They had one Zera and four nova's.

    Yeah, we lost that one pretty hard.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
    Steam ID
    Twitch Page
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    We should all dream of having that many Zeratuls.

    ztrEPtD.gif
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Tempo Storm is Psalm, Jun, Cattle, Cauthon, and another guy. I know all these names, but not as TS. Was this Murloc Geniuses previously?

    Fury. And yes, this was Murloc Geniuses -> Astral Authority -> Murloc Geniuses -> now Tempo Storm.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Did they win game 5? I had to step away from my PC in the middle of the match and missed the end.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Did they win game 5? I had to step away from my PC in the middle of the match and missed the end.
    Tempo Storm won!
    Yay!

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Oh wow. They really nerfed the rooster. You get more time, the objects aren't 40 miles from the rooster, picking up an item doesn't dismount you. Thank god.

    Edit: Maybe it does still dismount you. I swear one game it didn't. Weird...

    forty on
  • Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Oh wow. They really nerfed the rooster. You get more time, the objects aren't 40 miles from the rooster, picking up an item doesn't dismount you. Thank god.

    Edit: Maybe it does still dismount you. I swear one game it didn't. Weird...

    It dismounts you but carrying an item gives a speed buff so you don't slow down.

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Hmmm, so after some amount of time has passed, Valeeera's winrate seems pretty stable now: ~42% in HL, ~47% in QM.

    That's disappointing. I mean, I feel like she's straight up gasoline, but she also seems countered pretty easily. Like, she has a negative winrate against almost the whole roster. Her damage is 100% there, I can truck fools pretty easily (and I can just fucking pop them like grapes once I get Cold Blood at 20)... so I guess that's not the area. I can't really say "oh, well, it's cause she's hard to play", because while that's true, that's not the reason for her low winrate. I mean, look at Vikings. Those motherfuckers are the hardest Heroes in the game to play, and yet their winrate is super up there.

    So I guess she probably needs buffs? But I'm not sure where they should hit. Her general survivability seems fine? Her health is pretty high, she can slink away pretty easily, she has Smoke Bomb for when shit really hits the fan. I end most games with 2-3 deaths, even ones that I lose.

    Maybe her Trait could stand to be buffed? Like think about Zeratul, who is probably the most direct comparison. If Zera gets knocked out of stealth, he just has to wait a few seconds and he's back in. Valeera? 8 seconds. That's pretty brutal. Maybe lower that to 6 seconds (and then Nightslayer bumps that to 4 seconds)?

    Also goes without saying that her lower winrate talents could stand to be buffed. She really only has like, two/three builds right now, and two of them are identical outside of picking between Fatal Finesse/Mutilate. So, two builds, really, Energy build or Stealth build. So buffing those underperforming talents would be nice, but won't solve her inherent issues, whatever those might be.

    She also can't siege/push/merc at all, that's probably impacting things quite a bit.

    It's really, really hard to pinpoint what Valeera's issue is. She feels great, I feel like I'm pumping out damage and getting ganks like fucking crazy... But then why am I losing so many games with her? Even though I'm performing well in the games I lose? Welp, maybe it's because she only has a 50% or higher winrate vs 10 Heroes in the whole game. I mean I've also gotten some really shitty teammates recently (like a Sonya/Morales duo that literally stayed top lane all game and never grouped, hooray!), but is that really the entire reason? I've been playing well, I don't think the reason I've been losing is because we had a Valeera on the team. So maybe just, QM shenanigans? Getting bad breaks? Ehhh... I dunno. I'm trying to rationalize my losses somehow and maybe it's just numbers related.

    But it could also just be bad luck. The games I've won, I've won hard, but we also had the right comp. Valeera shines when she has a strong frontline that allows her to get in and do her thing. She's great when paired with other strong CC Heroes so that you can just layer them together. But if we lacked a frontline, I'd just get shit on. Or maybe it's just been bad breaks with bad teammates, I don't know.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The problem with lowering Valeera's D cooldown is that would give her a lower cooldown on Cheap Shot. And that's bad. You don't want a character with a spammable stun. That's not fun for anyone.

  • JookieJookie Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    I mean, look at Vikings. Those motherfuckers are the hardest Heroes in the game to play, and yet their winrate is super up there.
    Is it something that tracks winrate by games played? If they're hard to play the only people that are likely to be playing them are...people that play them and got good with them.

    butts
Sign In or Register to comment.